Posted by Louise on December 14, 1999, at 6:55:03
In reply to Re: Clonazepam Trial for Social Phobia, posted by Rick on December 14, 1999, at 0:46:50
Peace, Rick,
And I agree with you for the most part. But anybody who has depression along with panic and anxiety had it BEFORE seeking treatment with medication ... not AFTER or as a result of.
Goodness! Can we be friends now!?
Louise
> OY!
>
> Louise, didn't I AGREE with you that Klonopin CAN cause depression in some people, and that it IS more likely to do so than Xanax? What do you want, a notorized statement?
>
> Where I HAVE erred (twice) is in using the word "prone". This word is probably too strong and may WRONGLY suggest that someone with GAD, panic, or another disorder is almost a "sure bet" to suffer depression at some point. A better way for me to put it would have been to say that there is a "high rate of comorbidity between anxiety disorders and depression". That statement does NOT, I repeat, does NOT say that MOST people with panic or GAD develop depression at some point. It says only that someone with a chronic, clinical anxiety disorder is significantly more *likely* to develop depression at some point than the average person would be. And I dare you to find me any reputable mental health specialist who disagrees with that assertion. It's about as NON-controversial as you can possibly get.
>
> Now, who was that saying something about "defensive"?
>
> ----
> > Rick,
> >
> > I never had depression before and I never had depression after I started taking Xanax. I've been taking 1.5-2 mg. of Xanax daily for over 3 years. I developed depression for the first time after taking Klonopin over a period of 6 months. After I discontinued Klonopin, the depression went away.
> >
> > Some people who have panic disorder and general anxiety disorder will also have depression. They usually take an anti-anxiety agent as well as an anti-depressant. However, this is not true for everyone. Your implication is that anybody who has any type of a psychological disorder is prone to have depression. That is too broad a statement, and is not true in every situation.
> >
> > I never took Klonopin for panic ... Xanax was working fine, but my pdoc suggested Klonopin as a substitute since it is a longer-lasting benzo.
> >
> > There are many internet sites that mention depression as a potential side effect of Klonopin. I don't wish to continue rehashing this issue here, but if you wish to discuss it further feel free to email me.
> >
> > Louise
> >
> >
> > > > Rick,
> > > >
> > > > I honestly don't understand why people get so
> > > defensive when I and others point out this
> > > potential side effect with Klonopin. No, Klonopin
> > > can actually cause depression in some people. I
> > > didn't know anything about Klonopin until after
> > > several successful years of taking Xanax and
> > > deciding that I wanted to try the longer-lasting
> > > Klonopin. My pdoc placed me on Klonopin with
> > > absolutely no information or warnings about it.
> > > >
> > > > If I were depressed, my pdoc would have me on
> > > anti-depression medication, but that has never
> > > been my problem. I have general anxiety disorder,
> > > and even though I have always done adequately
> > > socially, my social life has greatly improved
> > > since the anxiety is under control.
> > > >
> > > > Why can't you just tell people that for some
> > > reason depression can be a potential side effect
> > > with a small percentage of people who take
> > > Klonopin? It bothers me greatly when people
> > > assume that only those who are "depression-prone"
> > > will get it. That simply is not always the case.
> > > >
> > > > Louise
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Louise -
> > >
> > > Why does it always seem we're always arguing when we bascically agree? Again, I concur that Klonopin can indeed cause depression in some people. And yes, it is more likely to do so than, say, Xanax. I was just trying to put some relevant context around this fact, namely that the people in whom Klonopin induces depression already suffer some kind of chronic mental disorder (GAD would certainly qualify) or physical illness, which -- as any pdoc would agree -- makes them more prone to depression a priori. Why else would they be taking Klonopin?
> > >
> > > Do you know some study of the side effects of Klonopin on volunteers with no chronic physical illness, mental disorder, or history of illicit drug use? If so, please share.
> > >
> > > P.S. Unfortunately, I won't have any time to "babble" for awhile, so if you wish to continue this discussion, I won't be able to respond.
> > > ----
> > > > > Louise -
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think my phrase "depression prone" was
> > > wrong so much as redundant. Anyone with a chronic
> > > disorder or illness, be it mental (panic disorder,
> > > social phobia) or physical (heart disease,
> > > diabetes, Pakinson's) is statistically more likely
> > > to have or develop clinical depression. And if
> > > you're taking Klonopin, then you certainly have a
> > > chronic illness or disorder of some sort. So, in
> > > a sense this POTENTIAL side effect of Klonopin is
> > > more precisely a "potentiator" than a "cause".
> > > And that certainly is a valid consideration (one
> > > of many) to throw in the hopper when choosing
> > > meds.
> > > > >
> > > > > From medical journal articles I've read, the
> > > general wisdom seems to be that panic sufferers
> > > are among the most prone to this potential side
> > > effect. Isn't that what you were taking Klonopin
> > > for?
> > > > >
> > > > > Several related ironies:
> > > > > -- Klonopin is often used short-term to
> > > potentiate anti-depressants
> > > > > -- Depression is listed as a possible side
> > > effect
> > > > > for most anti-depressants. One study of
> > > 240
> > > > > panic sufferers showed a fairly high
> > > > > incidence of depression as a side-effect of
> > > > > SSRI's (incidentally, Klonopin did not
> > > induce
> > > > > depression in any of the subjects).
> > > > > -- Many other drugs list depression as a
> > > possible
> > > > > side effect, including beta blockers and
> > > > > dopamine agonists used in Parkinson's (and
> > > off-
> > > > > label for psychotropic purposes).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Rick
> > > > > ----
> > > > > > Rick,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd like to point out that Klonopin doesn't
> > > necessarily *encourage* depression in
> > > "depression-prone people". By all accounts I've
> > > read and every pdoc I've talked with, Klonopin can
> > > actually *cause* depression in SOME people.
> > > Although I don't take an A/D and never had ongoing
> > > depression previously, I developed severe
> > > depression while on Klonopin. According to a pdoc
> > > whose opinion I respect, the percentage rate for
> > > developing depression on Klonopin is fairly high.
> > > I'm not trying to scare anyone who wants to try
> > > Klonopin because it can work wonders, but if you
> > > do try it be aware that depression can be a
> > > potential side effect just in case it happens to
> > > you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Louise
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'd stop here, but must add one very
> > > important note: Unlike you, I do not suffer from
> > > depression. Klonopin alone certainly won't treat
> > > depression, and in fact in some depression-prone
> > > people may actually *encourage* depression after
> > > extended usage. Have you tried Serzone or Manerix
> > > (not available in U.S., but doc can order from
> > > Canada)? These tend to have fewer side effects,
> > > especially sexually and weight-related, although
> > > some people find Serzone sedating; have both
> > > supposedly shown some degree of benefit for Social
> > > Phobia; and can both be used with Klonopin. Also,
> > > if you are not sensitive to its side effects (such
> > > as dizziness or fatigue -- NOT sexual problems)
> > > the GAD med BuSpar is said to be an effective
> > > *antidepressant* at high doses (min 60-90 mg).
> > > Indeed, there is some anecdotal evidence that
> > > HIGH-DOSE BuSpar can help alleviate Social Phobia.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good luck to you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rick
> > > > > > > -----
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Have spent the weekend researching
> > > new/old meds for my GAD/Social Phobia/Depression.
> > > I have tried just about all the SSRI's. Effexor
> > > was probably gave me the least amount of effects
> > > however if the benefits had been good I would
> > > still be on it. I have gone for a long period
> > > without medication and am now ready to try again.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would sure appreciate info on
> > > clonazepam, dosages, effects, withdrawal,
> > > long-term use, benefits. I am interested in this
> > > one because it is the least upsetting to the
> > > system. I am just in no mood to deal with weight
> > > gain, dizzyness and all that crap again.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks guys for your support.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Michele
poster:Louise
thread:16763
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/19991212/msgs/16890.html