Psycho-Babble Social Thread 1113943

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Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by alexandra_k on March 15, 2021, at 20:57:47

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by alexandra_k on March 15, 2021, at 20:52:01

That's how NZ gets to have 25 per cent of it's population disabled. They disabled 25 per cent of the population. That's what that means. They incapacitated them. They refuse to pay them properly and they refuse to allow them to work full time and they refuse to acknowledge that they have capacity and rights and so on.

They insist that they are intrinsically broken or damaged or malfunctioing or a liability. That they don't have the work capacity. That they don't have the ability.

They cry cry cry they demand they demand they demand more and more and more money for keeping more and more and more people disabled. For keeping them incapacitated. More and more and more money the government gives people for growing their population of people kept incapacitated.

It's a thing...

Some people intentionally want to have kids with disabilities and the like. Some people intentionally want kids with down syndrome. They intentionally want a kid who (they think of) as a kid who will stay a kid FOREVER. that will never leave them. That will die before them and not after. That will never grow up. That will always have less cognitive capacity than them. That will always needs them and always rely on them. And they will get extra money from everybody else in order to keep their kid. They wll get government money and the like.

That's a thing. A very real thing.

People want something they can cry to 'go fund me' about.

People are really f*ck*d up. An awful lot of them...

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by alexandra_k on March 15, 2021, at 20:59:29

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by alexandra_k on March 15, 2021, at 20:57:47

It is what the NZ government sold them. A dream. A way to be. Have a tribe of kids and they'll protect you.

Only...

SOme of them did.

They're walking around now with semi-automatics.

What did they think was going to happen??

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2021, at 23:48:34

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by alexandra_k on March 15, 2021, at 20:42:07

It is a good idea if you have been smoking regular cigarettes previously, which most vapers did before they became vapers. It is 20 fold or more less damaging than cigarettes.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2021, at 23:49:11

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2021, at 23:48:34

Most people can't quit. But they can switch to vaping.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 16, 2021, at 0:08:13

In reply to German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 2, 2021, at 6:16:15

i live in texas, there dong alot of quit smoking ads on television and trying to get the ciggerettes slowly down. Flavored e-ciggs i think ... were trying to get banned, you now cherry and vanilla on e-ciggs but i saw them the other day. I'm not as skilled in telling whats going on in US, but there saying e-ciggs attract children because their flavored, and then they get the nicotine hook. But besides that there's not much restirction, but they just made it a law that you have to be 21 to buy ciggerettes. Vaping is big buisness in united states

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2021, at 3:21:23

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 16, 2021, at 0:08:13

They are saying everything they can in order to stop people from switching from tobacco to vaping. Just because they are saying that doesnt mean it really is a big problem. I want to see data.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2021, at 3:27:21

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2021, at 3:21:23

It saves much more lives than it costs!

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2021, at 5:22:48

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2021, at 3:27:21

At least right now where so many people are hooked on inhaled nicotine. It may change at a point where no one is hooked on nicotine anymore. But right now, it is doing more good than harm.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2021, at 5:23:28

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2021, at 5:22:48

Because the alternative, smoking, is MUCH more harmful.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by alexandra_k on March 23, 2021, at 2:47:42

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2021, at 5:23:28

yes. now. yes.

it does seem to be less harmful than smoking.

but whether or not it is less harmful than smoking depends on what they put in the vape substance. and it's not really regulated. so, whether it will remain less harmful is an open question.

it is trading one addition for another.

literally.

the tobacco companies are shifting their monies over so they can profit from sales of vapeing stuff rather than smoking stuff.

when i walk down the street and i get a whiff of... what smells (often) like caremelising sugar...

it wasn't so long ago they were trying to regulate against alcoholic ice-blocks because they were intentionally marketing to children.

they are still at it. and whoever has the authority to regulate is either on the the take or dragging their heels because....

i guess because they are on the take.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by alexandra_k on March 23, 2021, at 2:48:51

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by alexandra_k on March 23, 2021, at 2:47:42

the concern is that once people are hooked then the prices will go up. and up. and up. because people are hooked. and why wouldn't you if you are getting away with it then i guess you are...

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 23, 2021, at 5:40:39

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by alexandra_k on March 23, 2021, at 2:47:42

Yeah, it is healthier. It does need to regulated in terms of what substances are allowed in Liquids. It is in Germany. I heard that in the Us there were THC Liquids around and they used Vitamin-E-Acetate to make the THC soluble in the Liquid. People died and it's not good.
But would would you prohibit drinking glasses because someone drank gasoline out of it and died? I wouldn't.

Im not so sure if Tobacco companies get anything out of it. If they did, they would be against the planned HEAVY taxation of Liquids. But they are perfectly fine with it. They were blunt enough to write that in a german newspaper that they are fine with it. Cigarettes get 50 cent more expensive, liquids 8 euro more.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 23, 2021, at 5:41:51

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 23, 2021, at 5:40:39

That is if they can follow through with that massive BS that they planned.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 23, 2021, at 5:46:34

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 23, 2021, at 5:40:39

Personally, I think they simply don't care and just want people to continue smoking cigarettes at all costs. According to them, you are supposed to pay 8 Eur tax for the equivalent of a pack of cigarettes.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 23, 2021, at 5:50:29

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 23, 2021, at 5:46:34

They don't ban water either although it can be toxic if the wrong substances are in it.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2021, at 3:24:05

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 23, 2021, at 5:50:29

Yeah. The government just took control of / responsibility for water, here. Is in the process of it. Via a new Bill. They found lead in Otago and they found that they had redefined 'normal' levels of lead to be what other developed nations consider toxic. They found dead birds in the drinking water someplace else. They had an outbreak of e-coli from fecal contamination in Hastings a couple years back...

It looks like there is a move to liberalisation of drugs. In the US, anyway.

Not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand I do think that people's private business is their own private business. On the other hand... The social harms that arise from / result from people having ready access to such things...

It is a hard one. Quitting smoking was the hardest thing I ever did. I quit before vaping took off so I've never tried it.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 27, 2021, at 4:04:13

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2021, at 3:24:05

Yeah, Nicotine is pretty hardcore acutally if we are talking addiction. However, in its defense, it doesn't lead to psychosocial or occupational problems.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 27, 2021, at 4:12:23

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 27, 2021, at 4:04:13

You don't end up on the street and you won't go nuts because of it, either.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid Lamdage22

Posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2021, at 20:16:00

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 27, 2021, at 4:12:23

Hmm...

It is a weird one / tricky thing...

I heard that nicotine was something like 4x as addictive as morphene. When it came to soldiors who had both during the war available to them as rations and then after the war how many of them were alright about being weaned off of morphene but not alright about being weaned off of cigarettes.

But I think that was morphene. Not heroin. And not fentynl. I think those latter things are (were designed to be?) more effective (additive?).

But what you say seems right about how people don't end up in the place they end up in over other drugs when it comes to cigarettes.

But maybe that is because cigarettes are relatively socially accepted and relatively freely available.

I mean... It it was socially accepted to smoke your crack pipe in the streets during the day the way it is socially accepted to smoke a cigarette... Well... It is coming to be, I suppose.

Hard to tell the difference between a vape pipe and... Well...

Maybe decriminalising and making these things socially accepted (more so) will have an effect of disempowering the harms.

I don't know.

I don't really feel that I understand / have a handle on things.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 27, 2021, at 22:30:13

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid Lamdage22, posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2021, at 20:16:00

Hmm I thin that some stuff causes you to stop taking care of yourself, legal or not.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 27, 2021, at 22:34:36

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 27, 2021, at 22:30:13

But yeah, making stuff illegal adds to the problem.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid Lamdage22

Posted by alexandra_k on March 28, 2021, at 0:13:15

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 27, 2021, at 22:34:36

There may be a difference in how people choose to use the drugs.

Binging vs more regular low dose use, I mean.

But it does seem right that the toll that opiates takes on the digestive system (not eating) and the toll that meth takes on sleep wake (not sleeping) has people not self care / burn out in a way that cigarettes / nicotine doesn't seem to have them do.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 28, 2021, at 0:24:21

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid Lamdage22, posted by alexandra_k on March 28, 2021, at 0:13:15

Yeah, it is a bit different. Psychoactive in a different way from most other drugs. You can totally binge on cigarettes while you are working. And there is no drug induced psychosis either at high doses. It seems you can work well on stimulants, but if you overdo it, you are likely to lose your mind and thus not be able to work. Not so with nicotine.

And yeah, Heroin, THC... I would say there is a tendency to not get anything done.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should start with nicotine, of course, but yeah, if you already started it would be good if you can get it without all the chemicals that combustion produces. Many if not most people will not stop using Nicotine. So I argue they should at least get it in a safe way. Because Vaping includes inhaling, it works better than nicotine lozenges or patches or whatever. Somehow the addiction is linked to the act of inhaling.

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by alexandra_k on April 12, 2021, at 23:08:14

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by Lamdage22 on March 28, 2021, at 0:24:21

> Yeah, it is a bit different. Psychoactive in a different way from most other drugs. You can totally binge on cigarettes while you are working. And there is no drug induced psychosis either at high doses. It seems you can work well on stimulants, but if you overdo it, you are likely to lose your mind and thus not be able to work. Not so with nicotine.

Yeah. Nicotine seems to be self-limiting at high doses. You feel nauseous or headachy. Lose the desire to imbibe more. That's relatively mild symptoms of toxicity compared to other things (paranoia etc).

> And yeah, Heroin, THC... I would say there is a tendency to not get anything done.

Yeah.

> I'm not suggesting that anyone should start with nicotine, of course, but yeah, if you already started it would be good if you can get it without all the chemicals that combustion produces.

Yeah, I do hear you on that. Quitting smoking cigarettes was, without a doubt, the hardest thing I ever did my whole life. I didn't think I would ever be able to do it. Then someone said that they knew someone (though maybe this was made-up the idea of it seemed sound to me) to simply replace cigarettes with gum. As in... Chop the gum into small enough pieces so that I should nibble on a tiny piece of gum instead of having a cigarette any and every time I really wanted a cigarette. So direct substitution. And I thought I idea seemed sound. Maybe I could do that. So I tried...

ANd the reality of the gum didn't work out for me. It takes some munching before absorption... And coffee inhibits absorption. Also the gum gave me digestive upset that the cigarettes didn't...

But I was able to (eventually) quit with the help of the gum. If vaping had have been more advanced then I likely would have tried to substitute with vaping.

I was surprised that shifting to the gum made things bearable -- just. But I was surprised the gum didn't make things easier. I think that tells me there were more addictive things in cigarette smoke than simply nicotine.

> Many if not most people will not stop using Nicotine. So I argue they should at least get it in a safe way.

There is actually some evidence that nicotine (not smoke) is protective against alzheimers and parkinsons. I think there were even studies done on giving non-smokers nicotine to help prevent alzherimers and parkinsons. Nicotine seems to be okay for people.

> Because Vaping includes inhaling, it works better than nicotine lozenges or patches or whatever. Somehow the addiction is linked to the act of inhaling.

Yeah. Or sublingual absorption. Or maybe absorption via the oropharynx... The nasal neurones... Maybe even...

 

Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid

Posted by alexandra_k on April 12, 2021, at 23:12:56

In reply to Re: German lunatic politicians: 800%tax onE-Cig-Liquid, posted by alexandra_k on April 12, 2021, at 23:08:14

actually that's interesting. I was reading about some relatively youngish newish researcher at Auckland doing research on Parkinsons and / or Alzheimers, or whatever. And I was generally skeptical or dubious because of the state of much of the research that is funded. And how anything to do with the brain, particularly, seems to be particularly crap...

And there was something about Covid increasing liklihood of Parkinsons and I was like 'yeah right'. And something about protein accumulating in the nasal neurones and that going ito the brain. And i was like 'yeah right. they are mocking what I was saying about prions. f*ck-tards'...

And then I read some more... ANd no, actually, seriously, it actually seems kinda legit. He actually has some kind of a point. ABout the neurones in the oropharynx and the sense of smell...

And yeah now with smoke inhalation. Huh. And the preventing Parkinsons thing. Huh. Interesting...


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