Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 832600

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Re: Sorry about that Lou... Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 26, 2008, at 8:47:44

In reply to Finding the statment in question ithe offered link, posted by Lou PIlder on June 26, 2008, at 7:02:58

I'm sorry...it was late and I should have pointed that out Lou. There is the the whole story and life of Martin Luther there. Thanks for pointing that out..:)

Jay

 

Lou's request for clarification-wknmybbybkhom Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Lou PIlder on June 26, 2008, at 8:56:17

In reply to Re: Sorry about that Lou... Lou PIlder, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 26, 2008, at 8:47:44

> I'm sorry...it was late and I should have pointed that out Lou. There is the the whole story and life of Martin Luther there. Thanks for pointing that out..:)
>
> Jay

Jay,
You wrote,[...it was late and I should have pointed that out...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by the grammatical structure of your reply to me here. If you could clarify the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. In [...{it} was late...],what was the {it} that was late and what are you wanting to mean by {late}?
B. In,[...I should have pointed {that} out...],what is the {that} that should have been pointed out and what are you wanting to mean that it {should have been} pointed out?
Lou

 

Re: Lou's request for clarification-zroastr Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Sigismund on June 26, 2008, at 16:39:56

In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-zroastr Sigismund, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 26, 2008, at 1:58:28

John McCain is by no means the worst of it though, although I'm pretty ignorant.

What about The Family?

 

Re: Lou's request for clarification-zroastr

Posted by Sigismund on June 26, 2008, at 17:06:23

In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-zroastr Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Sigismund on June 26, 2008, at 16:39:56

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_%28Christian_political_organization%29

I think they believe in the divine aspect of power.
Which kinda reminds me of this, for reasons that escape me.
It has something to do with faith.
But what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=555jxltr9Zo

 

Re: Lou's request for clarification-zroastr Sigismund

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 26, 2008, at 20:15:18

In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-zroastr, posted by Sigismund on June 26, 2008, at 17:06:23

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_%28Christian_political_organization%29
>
> I think they believe in the divine aspect of power.
> Which kinda reminds me of this, for reasons that escape me.
> It has something to do with faith.
> But what?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=555jxltr9Zo
>
>

Ummm...I don't think this is correct. The Lutheran Church is where you will find the information. It has nothing to do with these psuedo-religions.

Jay

 

Lou's request for clarification-psudoh Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Lou PIlder on June 26, 2008, at 20:42:34

In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-zroastr Sigismund, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 26, 2008, at 20:15:18

> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_%28Christian_political_organization%29
> >
> > I think they believe in the divine aspect of power.
> > Which kinda reminds me of this, for reasons that escape me.
> > It has something to do with faith.
> > But what?
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=555jxltr9Zo
> >
> >
>
> Ummm...I don't think this is correct. The Lutheran Church is where you will find the information. It has nothing to do with these psuedo-religions.
>
> Jay

Jay ,
You wrote,[...these psuedo-religions...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that. If you could clarify the following, I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A.What is the criteria that you use to determine if a religion is a psuedo-religion or not?
B. What is the criteria that you use to determine if a religion is not a pseudo-religion?
C. This part has been redacted by the respondent
Lou

 

Re: Lou's request for clarification-psudoh Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 26, 2008, at 23:17:12

In reply to Lou's request for clarification-psudoh Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on June 26, 2008, at 20:42:34

> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_%28Christian_political_organization%29
> > >
> > > I think they believe in the divine aspect of power.
> > > Which kinda reminds me of this, for reasons that escape me.
> > > It has something to do with faith.
> > > But what?
> > >
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=555jxltr9Zo
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Ummm...I don't think this is correct. The Lutheran Church is where you will find the information. It has nothing to do with these psuedo-religions.
> >
> > Jay
>
> Jay ,
> You wrote,[...these psuedo-religions...]
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that. If you could clarify the following, I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A.What is the criteria that you use to determine if a religion is a psuedo-religion or not?
> B. What is the criteria that you use to determine if a religion is not a pseudo-religion?
> C. This part has been redacted by the respondent
> Lou
>

Lou:

Well, did you know that Jesus preferred the company of sinners to saints? Why?
Because the saints put on airs, judged him, and tried to catch him in a moral trap.
The sinners where honest about themselves, and had no pretense.

Everything I say (almost anybody), especially in religious studies, have rather subjective viewpoints. What I am referring to in Pseudo-Religion is a group of organized people whose leaders have ulterior motives over their participants. (i.e. money, suicide cults, etc..)

Jay

 

Lou's request for identification-bibistdfm Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Lou PIlder on June 27, 2008, at 6:53:37

In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-psudoh Lou PIlder, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 26, 2008, at 23:17:12

> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_%28Christian_political_organization%29
> > > >
> > > > I think they believe in the divine aspect of power.
> > > > Which kinda reminds me of this, for reasons that escape me.
> > > > It has something to do with faith.
> > > > But what?
> > > >
> > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=555jxltr9Zo
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Ummm...I don't think this is correct. The Lutheran Church is where you will find the information. It has nothing to do with these psuedo-religions.
> > >
> > > Jay
> >
> > Jay ,
> > You wrote,[...these psuedo-religions...]
> > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that. If you could clarify the following, I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> > A.What is the criteria that you use to determine if a religion is a psuedo-religion or not?
> > B. What is the criteria that you use to determine if a religion is not a pseudo-religion?
> > C. This part has been redacted by the respondent
> > Lou
> >
>
> Lou:
>
> Well, did you know that Jesus preferred the company of sinners to saints? Why?
> Because the saints put on airs, judged him, and tried to catch him in a moral trap.
> The sinners where honest about themselves, and had no pretense.
>
> Everything I say (almost anybody), especially in religious studies, have rather subjective viewpoints. What I am referring to in Pseudo-Religion is a group of organized people whose leaders have ulterior motives over their participants. (i.e. money, suicide cults, etc..)
>
> Jay

Jay,
You wrote,[...Jesus preferred the company of sinners to saints...the saints put on airs, judged him and tried to catch him in a moral trap...the sinners had no pretense...]
I am unsure as to what group of people you are referring to that you write here as {saints} that Jesus preferred the company of sinners to them. If you could identify that group of people that you are referring to, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's request for identification-bibistdfm Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 27, 2008, at 17:07:36

In reply to Lou's request for identification-bibistdfm Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on June 27, 2008, at 6:53:37

> > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_%28Christian_political_organization%29
> > > > >
> > > > > I think they believe in the divine aspect of power.
> > > > > Which kinda reminds me of this, for reasons that escape me.
> > > > > It has something to do with faith.
> > > > > But what?
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=555jxltr9Zo
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ummm...I don't think this is correct. The Lutheran Church is where you will find the information. It has nothing to do with these psuedo-religions.
> > > >
> > > > Jay
> > >
> > > Jay ,
> > > You wrote,[...these psuedo-religions...]
> > > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that. If you could clarify the following, I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> > > A.What is the criteria that you use to determine if a religion is a psuedo-religion or not?
> > > B. What is the criteria that you use to determine if a religion is not a pseudo-religion?
> > > C. This part has been redacted by the respondent
> > > Lou
> > >
> >
> > Lou:
> >
> > Well, did you know that Jesus preferred the company of sinners to saints? Why?
> > Because the saints put on airs, judged him, and tried to catch him in a moral trap.
> > The sinners where honest about themselves, and had no pretense.
> >
> > Everything I say (almost anybody), especially in religious studies, have rather subjective viewpoints. What I am referring to in Pseudo-Religion is a group of organized people whose leaders have ulterior motives over their participants. (i.e. money, suicide cults, etc..)
> >
> > Jay
>
> Jay,
> You wrote,[...Jesus preferred the company of sinners to saints...the saints put on airs, judged him and tried to catch him in a moral trap...the sinners had no pretense...]
> I am unsure as to what group of people you are referring to that you write here as {saints} that Jesus preferred the company of sinners to them. If you could identify that group of people that you are referring to, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> Lou
>
>

Lou, dude, you are a passionate man and I appreciate that! I just don't have ALL of the answers, okay.:) (Maybe I pretend I do sometimes..lol..hahaa) That little bit about "saints" and "sinners" and Jesus, comes from a book by Philip Yancey, called "What's So Amazing About Grace?" (It doesn't put down the Scriptures, just asks a lot of questions.) I don't have a copy of the book, though. I am not sure if these are Saints in the Catholic tradition, or what? I sort of doubt it, though.
I'll see if I can find more info for you.

Thanks for your thoughts...
Jay

 

Re: More on Yancey and Grace... Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 27, 2008, at 17:22:45

In reply to Lou's request for identification-bibistdfm Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on June 27, 2008, at 6:53:37

Hey Lou...

Here is an interesting little 'blurb' about Yancey's book and the concept of 'Grace' as an underlying theme in the Bible.

"This grace is the true message of Jesus....Jesus speaks merely of receiving the love that God has for us. Accepting it, not earning it or making ourselves worthy of it. And frankly, accepting something we have not earned or are not worthy of is not an easy thing for most of us.

....Believers and nonbelievers alike should accept Yancey's challenge to become agents of grace rather than agents of vengeance or judgment or anger."

I really like that. Sadly, it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue these days.

Jay


 

Lou's request for identification-ohneliegh? Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Lou PIlder on June 27, 2008, at 18:01:25

In reply to Re: Lou's request for identification-bibistdfm Lou PIlder, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 27, 2008, at 17:07:36

> > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_%28Christian_political_organization%29
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think they believe in the divine aspect of power.
> > > > > > Which kinda reminds me of this, for reasons that escape me.
> > > > > > It has something to do with faith.
> > > > > > But what?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=555jxltr9Zo
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ummm...I don't think this is correct. The Lutheran Church is where you will find the information. It has nothing to do with these psuedo-religions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jay
> > > >
> > > > Jay ,
> > > > You wrote,[...these psuedo-religions...]
> > > > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that. If you could clarify the following, I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> > > > A.What is the criteria that you use to determine if a religion is a psuedo-religion or not?
> > > > B. What is the criteria that you use to determine if a religion is not a pseudo-religion?
> > > > C. This part has been redacted by the respondent
> > > > Lou
> > > >
> > >
> > > Lou:
> > >
> > > Well, did you know that Jesus preferred the company of sinners to saints? Why?
> > > Because the saints put on airs, judged him, and tried to catch him in a moral trap.
> > > The sinners where honest about themselves, and had no pretense.
> > >
> > > Everything I say (almost anybody), especially in religious studies, have rather subjective viewpoints. What I am referring to in Pseudo-Religion is a group of organized people whose leaders have ulterior motives over their participants. (i.e. money, suicide cults, etc..)
> > >
> > > Jay
> >
> > Jay,
> > You wrote,[...Jesus preferred the company of sinners to saints...the saints put on airs, judged him and tried to catch him in a moral trap...the sinners had no pretense...]
> > I am unsure as to what group of people you are referring to that you write here as {saints} that Jesus preferred the company of sinners to them. If you could identify that group of people that you are referring to, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> > Lou
> >
> >
>
> Lou, dude, you are a passionate man and I appreciate that! I just don't have ALL of the answers, okay.:) (Maybe I pretend I do sometimes..lol..hahaa) That little bit about "saints" and "sinners" and Jesus, comes from a book by Philip Yancey, called "What's So Amazing About Grace?" (It doesn't put down the Scriptures, just asks a lot of questions.) I don't have a copy of the book, though. I am not sure if these are Saints in the Catholic tradition, or what? I sort of doubt it, though.
> I'll see if I can find more info for you.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts...
> Jay

Jay,
I clicked on the offered link that comes up for the book and in {editorial reviews} going down to {product description}, I read;[...his...exploration of grace...our XXX for love and forgiveness...].
I am unsure as to if you are wanting to mean that what is in the book mentioned from the author is what you want to endorse or not here, such as the statement in question. If you could clarify as to if you are or are not wanting the author's perspective in the statement in question to be also your perspective, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou

 

Lou's request for clarification-hateigen? Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Lou PIlder on June 27, 2008, at 18:28:14

In reply to Re: More on Yancey and Grace... Lou PIlder, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 27, 2008, at 17:22:45

> Hey Lou...
>
> Here is an interesting little 'blurb' about Yancey's book and the concept of 'Grace' as an underlying theme in the Bible.
>
> "This grace is the true message of Jesus....Jesus speaks merely of receiving the love that God has for us. Accepting it, not earning it or making ourselves worthy of it. And frankly, accepting something we have not earned or are not worthy of is not an easy thing for most of us.
>
> ....Believers and nonbelievers alike should accept Yancey's challenge to become agents of grace rather than agents of vengeance or judgment or anger."
>
> I really like that. Sadly, it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue these days.
>
> Jay

Jay, You wrote,[...Sadly, it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue...].
I am unsure as to what you used to determine that it doesn't seem to be. If you could cite what you used to make that determination, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's request for clarification-hateigen? Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 27, 2008, at 23:33:51

In reply to Lou's request for clarification-hateigen? Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on June 27, 2008, at 18:28:14

> > Hey Lou...
> >
> > Here is an interesting little 'blurb' about Yancey's book and the concept of 'Grace' as an underlying theme in the Bible.
> >
> > "This grace is the true message of Jesus....Jesus speaks merely of receiving the love that God has for us. Accepting it, not earning it or making ourselves worthy of it. And frankly, accepting something we have not earned or are not worthy of is not an easy thing for most of us.
> >
> > ....Believers and nonbelievers alike should accept Yancey's challenge to become agents of grace rather than agents of vengeance or judgment or anger."
> >
> > I really like that. Sadly, it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue these days.
> >
> > Jay
>
> Jay, You wrote,[...Sadly, it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue...].
> I am unsure as to what you used to determine that it doesn't seem to be. If you could cite what you used to make that determination, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> Lou
>
>

Okay, Lou why don't you start talking and let me read. :-)? Second, about your question, pick up any newspaper.

Jay

 

Re: Lou's request for identification-ohneliegh? Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 28, 2008, at 0:10:35

In reply to Lou's request for identification-ohneliegh? Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on June 27, 2008, at 18:01:25

Lou,

Yes, I do believe "..grace, (is) the most powerful force in the universe and our only hope for love and forgiveness." I am talking here, though, about the concept of grace that I have known even way before I became a Christian. The great author Ernest Hemingway used the term Grace Under Pressure to explain how we as humans can be simply amazing by showing grace even in the worst of times. A few Nazi Concentration Camp survivors have also used the term.
And no, it is not exclusive to Christianity either.

Jay

 

Lou's request for clarification-dostyevskiegh Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Lou PIlder on June 28, 2008, at 7:04:51

In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-hateigen? Lou PIlder, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 27, 2008, at 23:33:51

Jay,
You wrote,[...why don't you start talking...?]
Could you post here what topic that you would like for me to write about that you would like to read? If you could, then I could know what it is that you would like for me to write about that you would like to read and concentrate on that topic.
Also, you wrote,[...pick up {any} newspaper...]
I am unsure as to what to look for in any newspaper that could show that, [...it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue...](agents of grace).
If you could elaborate more on that, then I could have a better understanding of what you are wanting to mean for me to look for in any newspaper and then respond accordingly.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's request for clarification-dostyevskiegh

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 28, 2008, at 8:35:28

In reply to Lou's request for clarification-dostyevskiegh Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on June 28, 2008, at 7:04:51

> Jay,
> You wrote,[...why don't you start talking...?]
> Could you post here what topic that you would like for me to write about that you would like to read? If you could, then I could know what it is that you would like for me to write about that you would like to read and concentrate on that topic.
> Also, you wrote,[...pick up {any} newspaper...]
> I am unsure as to what to look for in any newspaper that could show that, [...it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue...](agents of grace).
> If you could elaborate more on that, then I could have a better understanding of what you are wanting to mean for me to look for in any newspaper and then respond accordingly.
> Lou

Lou,

I'd just like to hear your comments on things. Besides that, I really cannot be more clear about "picking up the paper" to show that grace is not something widely pursued in the world these days. For example, in my local paper, some guy threw his baby kitten from the 5th floor balcony of his apartment, (and the kitty survived) and so then the guy went and got his car and ran over the cat, which obviously it didn't survive. "Dis-grace", really. Look at all the wars, the killing of innocent people (no matter what side you are on..) That is my final answer, because this could go on forever.

Peace,
Jay

 

Lou's response to aspects for members-heighneun

Posted by Lou PIlder on June 28, 2008, at 9:47:49

In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-dostyevskiegh, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 28, 2008, at 8:35:28

> > Jay,
> > You wrote,[...why don't you start talking...?]
> > Could you post here what topic that you would like for me to write about that you would like to read? If you could, then I could know what it is that you would like for me to write about that you would like to read and concentrate on that topic.
> > Also, you wrote,[...pick up {any} newspaper...]
> > I am unsure as to what to look for in any newspaper that could show that, [...it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue...](agents of grace).
> > If you could elaborate more on that, then I could have a better understanding of what you are wanting to mean for me to look for in any newspaper and then respond accordingly.
> > Lou
>
> Lou,
>
> I'd just like to hear your comments on things. Besides that, I really cannot be more clear about "picking up the paper" to show that grace is not something widely pursued in the world these days. For example, in my local paper, some guy threw his baby kitten from the 5th floor balcony of his apartment, (and the kitty survived) and so then the guy went and got his car and ran over the cat, which obviously it didn't survive. "Dis-grace", really. Look at all the wars, the killing of innocent people (no matter what side you are on..) That is my final answer, because this could go on forever.
>
> Peace,
> Jay

Friends,
It is written here,[...I'd...like to hear your comments on {things}...].
I am unsure as to what the things could or could not be, so if you are following this thread and would like for me to comment on something, just post what you would like for me to comment on specifically and I wil try to post my perspective concerning what you are requesting for me to comment on.
Lou

 

Re: Lou..What are your thoughts on 'grace'? Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 30, 2008, at 8:00:43

In reply to Lou's response to aspects for members-heighneun, posted by Lou PIlder on June 28, 2008, at 9:47:49

Lou,

Okay, here is a question. What do you think of the concept of "grace", and how would you advise spreading in your (or anyone's) lives?

Jay :)

 

Lou's reply to Jay-wtizgrc? Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Lou PIlder on June 30, 2008, at 19:29:34

In reply to Re: Lou..What are your thoughts on 'grace'? Lou PIlder, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 30, 2008, at 8:00:43

> Lou,
>
> Okay, here is a question. What do you think of the concept of "grace", and how would you advise spreading in your (or anyone's) lives?
>
> Jay :)
Jay,
You wrote,[...What do you think of the concept of grace and how would you advise spreading...].
I am unsure as to the grammatical structure of your statement and in reading your posts in this thread as to what your concept of grace is. If I was to know that, then I could better respond accordingly.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Jay-wtizgrc? Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 30, 2008, at 23:44:30

In reply to Lou's reply to Jay-wtizgrc? Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on June 30, 2008, at 19:29:34

> > Lou,
> >
> > Okay, here is a question. What do you think of the concept of "grace", and how would you advise spreading in your (or anyone's) lives?
> >
> > Jay :)
> Jay,
> You wrote,[...What do you think of the concept of grace and how would you advise spreading...].
> I am unsure as to the grammatical structure of your statement and in reading your posts in this thread as to what your concept of grace is. If I was to know that, then I could better respond accordingly.
> Lou
>
>

Lou, I beg you, please don't answer a question with a question..lol. :-) I just want to know..regardless of what I think or anybody thinks...what does the word 'grace' mean to you?
That's all. Thanks...
Jay :)

 

Lou's reply to Jay-phoargv Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Lou PIlder on July 1, 2008, at 21:31:41

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Jay-wtizgrc? Lou PIlder, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 30, 2008, at 23:44:30

> > > Lou,
> > >
> > > Okay, here is a question. What do you think of the concept of "grace", and how would you advise spreading in your (or anyone's) lives?
> > >
> > > Jay :)
> > Jay,
> > You wrote,[...What do you think of the concept of grace and how would you advise spreading...].
> > I am unsure as to the grammatical structure of your statement and in reading your posts in this thread as to what your concept of grace is. If I was to know that, then I could better respond accordingly.
> > Lou
> >
> >
>
> Lou, I beg you, please don't answer a question with a question..lol. :-) I just want to know..regardless of what I think or anybody thinks...what does the word 'grace' mean to you?
> That's all. Thanks...
> Jay :)

Jay,
You wrote,[...what does the word "grace" mean to you?...].
I would like to post my answer here to you queston, for I think that it could be important to members that are reading this.
Going back when I first posted here, I thought that I could make a short contribution and leave. But after reading many posts I realized that what has been revealed to me of the deep things about God could IMO help others here.
I was talking about what has been revealed to me about overcomming and then about the two minds and there is a third mind that I have not written about. And I was writing about a kingdom, that is not of this world, a kingdom of peace, a promised land to go to. It has been revealed to me that this land is not a place here. It is in heaven. And it has been revealed to me that one can be in that city of peace, in heaven, a paradise. And today, you could be in paradise.
In heaven there is no death like there is on earth. There is no pain like there is on earth. There are no one addicted like there are on earth. There is no hate like there is on earth. There is no darkness like there is on earth. There is light and peace. And when one is there, they have overcome the world and all that is in the world. They are in paradise.
This kingdom is available to all. It has been revealed to me that it is the will of the God that I worship that all come over to the promised land, passsing over the Great Gulf. For it has been revealed ot me that that God's will is to have what is in heaven to be here on earth. It has been revealed to me that that kingdom can come to you, here , now, on earth as it is in heaven, for it has been revealed to me that that kingdom is a spiritual kingdom.
Are there debtors in heaven? Do those in heaven seek to collect debts, or are they forgiven?? Is there evil in heaven? Are all the evil things done to you forgiven in heaven? Are those in heaven seeking to be delivered from evil? Is there temptation in heaven? Are those in heaven seeking to be delivered from temptation?
It has been revealed to me that there is power and glory in heaven and that that power can be here to you on earth as it is in heaven. Heaven has been revealed to me to be the place where the Father is. And it has been revealed to me that one can go into their closet and pray to the Father that his kingdom come here to you as it is in heaven. And when that prayer is made, it has been reveled to me that one could be led with joy and be led forth with peace, the mountains and hills could come forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field could clap their hands.
My friends, trees do not have hands. The tress have been revealed to me to be symbols, symbols of people. In the kingdom of God when you passover the great gulf you will be met by a multitude of people, as I was, clapping their hands for you by entering. All the old things have passed away, you have all things new. There is no guilt or shame, or enemies. And there was a Rider on a White Horse when I passed over to the Kingdom. And I asked how this happened and He said to me,"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Jay-phoargv Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on July 2, 2008, at 1:43:20

In reply to Lou's reply to Jay-phoargv Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on July 1, 2008, at 21:31:41

Interesting reply Lou. It sounds like we have some things in common. You wrote "For it has been revealed to me that that God's will is to have what is in heaven to be here on earth." I have taken the belief of "On Earth as it is in Heaven" to heart, and try to practice it in my life daily. I often pray that this actually occurs moreso, because I want "Heaven on Earth" RIGHT NOW..lol. I want to see the wars stop, the hunger gone, the poverty erased, the sick cured, etc. I am not much of a believer that we should rush through all our lives for the "Kingdom". I've lost a lot in my life, including a child and a wife, and I don't believe God put me through so much pain if it was as simple as "Everything will be alright in the end." Maybe you and others disagree, and that is perfectly fine. But, considering the trauma I went through, that millions go through who lose children, families, etc, etc, it is a deeply dark experience that moreso resembles a "Hell", Lou. Through the experience of many loving, open arms of people with unconditional love, I was able to get my Faith back. And I still do have some "days" where I fall to pieces, but I know now I have some hope to get back up again. Anyhow...thanks for listening..

Peace,
Jay

 

Re: Lou's reply to Jay-phoargv

Posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2008, at 3:13:04

In reply to Lou's reply to Jay-phoargv Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on July 1, 2008, at 21:31:41

Grace is not earned and is not gained by effort(?).
It has nothing to do with thinking that you are a good person (our politicians have done things to my brain).
A few of the people I knew who (I think) had grace killed themselves.


Lou
That was lovely.
Thank you.

 

Re: Lou's reply to Jay... Sigismund

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on July 2, 2008, at 17:24:11

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Jay-phoargv, posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2008, at 3:13:04

> Grace is not earned and is not gained by effort(?).
> It has nothing to do with thinking that you are a good person (our politicians have done things to my brain).
> A few of the people I knew who (I think) had grace killed themselves.
>
>
>
>
> Lou
> That was lovely.
> Thank you.

Sig, THAT was really great what you wrote! And I do believe that many people who have committed suicide have been very graceful people, as 'grace' is not some trait or commodity we tally up. It can be action, or inaction, as in the way of Jesus' non-violent footsteps. Now this may really cause a stir-up, but personally, I don't really believe there is a place called "Hell", in particularly not in the conventional way we are taught. I have to do some more research on this topic, so I will get back to it.

Best,
Jay :)

 

Re: Lou's reply to Jay... Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2008, at 17:33:55

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Jay... Sigismund, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on July 2, 2008, at 17:24:11

Hi Jay

Hell as a real place?

I remember thinking when the Pope said it didn't exist as a real place ....'You've lost your nerve. This is a bit of a cave in to the spirit of the times.'

OTOH I cannot believe in a God who would allow such a thing, not a real place, not the fiery pit. It can (surely?) only be humans who do this kind of thing with our nooses and our red hot iron thrones, our bizarre and unusual punishments, our torture and our politics.
If God is like us................


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