Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 799425

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Lou's reply to Dena-etnlkngdm Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on March 1, 2008, at 4:54:58

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-stilwtrs Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 28, 2008, at 0:30:57

> Lou -
>
> I've been reading a lot about the Kingdom of God lately - it's in so many books I'm finding. It's what Jesus talked about more than anything else (over 100 times). He never spoke of a "personal salvation experience", or the "sinner's prayer", or of it being about "getting out of hell free". It seems to me that the modern gospel message has been trivialized, minimized, and reduced to be just about a destination in the future.
>
> I see the Kingdom of God as being ALL-encompassing... that it's meant to permeate every aspect of life, a radical transformation of everything. That it's about abundant life starting NOW, it's about the journey with Him, now, and continuing on endlessly. That it's about this age, and the ages to come. That it's about His Kingdom and His will coming to earth NOW, as it is in heaven.
>
> I'm reminded of Him saying to seek the Kingdom of God first, and everything else will be added to us. I'm reminded of Him saying that the one who seeks to save his own life will lose it... but the one who has lost his life for His sake will find it.
>
> The Kingdom of God seems to me to be a mysterious and radical realm... an almost upside-down realm compared to the one we perceive around us with our five senses...
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...The Kingdom of God...a jouney...perceived...].
There is great symbolism that a Jew could know that is versed in the scriptures that the Jews use concerning kingdoms. Their scriptures write about the Egyptian kingdom that held them in bondage and the Babylonian captivity. And as I read your post here, I am led to the book called Danial in the second chapter, verse 44 which reads in the King James;
[...and in the days of these kings shall the God in heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed...].
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-etnlkngdm Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on March 1, 2008, at 23:22:52

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-etnlkngdm Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on March 1, 2008, at 4:54:58

The rest of the verse reads, (in the NASB):

and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.

 

Lou's reply to Dena-wdvgd Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on March 2, 2008, at 21:09:07

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-stilwtrs Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 28, 2008, at 0:30:57

> Lou -
>
> I've been reading a lot about the Kingdom of God lately - it's in so many books I'm finding. It's what Jesus talked about more than anything else (over 100 times). He never spoke of a "personal salvation experience", or the "sinner's prayer", or of it being about "getting out of hell free". It seems to me that the modern gospel message has been trivialized, minimized, and reduced to be just about a destination in the future.
>
> I see the Kingdom of God as being ALL-encompassing... that it's meant to permeate every aspect of life, a radical transformation of everything. That it's about abundant life starting NOW, it's about the journey with Him, now, and continuing on endlessly. That it's about this age, and the ages to come. That it's about His Kingdom and His will coming to earth NOW, as it is in heaven.
>
> I'm reminded of Him saying to seek the Kingdom of God first, and everything else will be added to us. I'm reminded of Him saying that the one who seeks to save his own life will lose it... but the one who has lost his life for His sake will find it.
>
> The Kingdom of God seems to me to be a mysterious and radical realm... an almost upside-down realm compared to the one we perceive around us with our five senses...
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...The Kingdom of God...mysterious...realm...]
It has been revealed to me that there is a great gulf that separates the natural man's kingdom and the spiritual man's kingdom and that the carnally minded kingdom is the kingdom of death and that the spiritually minded kingdom is the kingdom of peace and life.
It has been revealed to me that The Kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom that is now within us and can be entered now and that to enter the Kingdom of God one has to be born into it. This birth is first conceived when there is a union of the spirit of God within you with the water of life, which has been revealed to me to be The Word of God.
When I was on the sand by the shore the Rider said to me, "The words that I speak to you, they are spirit and they are life.".
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-wdvgd Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on March 2, 2008, at 23:44:42

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-wdvgd Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on March 2, 2008, at 21:09:07

Yes, the Kingdom of God is within, and meant to be expressed through us. It's "at hand".

It's not something to be arrived-at later -- as in "getting to heaven one day".

It's NOW...!

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-wdvgd

Posted by Sigismund on March 3, 2008, at 20:51:25

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-wdvgd Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on March 2, 2008, at 23:44:42

>Yes, the Kingdom of God is within, and meant to be expressed through us. It's "at hand".

>It's not something to be arrived-at later -- as in "getting to heaven one day".

>It's NOW...!

So, what prevents us getting/being there?

I came across this poem, by Hafiz.


It Felt Love

How
Did the rose
Ever open its heart

And give to the world
All its
Beauty?

It felt the encouragement of light
Against its
Being,

Otherwise,
We all remain

Too

Frightened.

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-wdvgd Sigismund

Posted by Dena on March 4, 2008, at 1:27:15

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-wdvgd, posted by Sigismund on March 3, 2008, at 20:51:25

That's beautiful, Sigismund.

Yes, we respond to the Light ... it both exposes darkness (the darkness flees in the face of Light), and beckons us to unfold, and receive.

We yield to the Light.

Thank you!

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-wtrnlght Sigismund

Posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2008, at 9:19:31

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-wdvgd, posted by Sigismund on March 3, 2008, at 20:51:25

> >Yes, the Kingdom of God is within, and meant to be expressed through us. It's "at hand".
>
> >It's not something to be arrived-at later -- as in "getting to heaven one day".
>
> >It's NOW...!
>
> So, what prevents us getting/being there?
>
> I came across this poem, by Hafiz.
>
>
> It Felt Love
>
> How
> Did the rose
> Ever open its heart
>
> And give to the world
> All its
> Beauty?
>
> It felt the encouragement of light
> Against its
> Being,
>
> Otherwise,
> We all remain
>
> Too
>
> Frightened.

Sigismund,
You wrote,[...what prevents us...?].
It has been revealed to me that there are many things that prevent one from entering the Kingdom of God for entering the Kingdom is by being birthed into it. When we were born of the flesh, we had no party to our birth, it was outside of our ability to be born. There was a father and a mother.
It has been revealed to me that mankind was created out of the dust of the ground and God breathed into him the breath of life which is spirit, like a seed, but that spirit did not germinate because Adam did not partake of the tree of life which would have given him conception to the God-life, but partook of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil that leads to death without the Water of life, the Word of God.
This birthing into the kingdom of God has been revealed to me to be a conceiving of God's spirit with the already spirit in man to germinate the seed of God-life, to enter the Kingdom of God.
It has been revealed to me that this birthing is like the birthing of the flesh in that we have nothing to do with it, for as our flesh father and mother caused us to be born of the flesh which leads to death from the carnal mind, our spirit father and mother causes us to be born of the spirit, which is light and eternal life.
It has been revealed to me like you have posted here about the flower. For a seed needs water and light which gives heat to germinate. This water and this light in the spiritual birth is spiritual light and spiritual water. When I studied Botany, I learned that a plant will be drawn to the light and grow toward it and if kept in the dark without water, the seed will not germinate for there is no light for it to be drawn to.
It has been revealed to me that there is a light drawing all men to God's spirit. For as I stood on the sand next to the sea, the Rider said to me," Arise,shine; for your light has come!
And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you.
For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
And deep darkness the people;
But the Lord will arise over you,
And His glory will be seen upon you."
Lou

 

Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-watervthewrd

Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2008, at 8:45:21

In reply to Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-wtrnlght Sigismund, posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2008, at 9:19:31

> > >Yes, the Kingdom of God is within, and meant to be expressed through us. It's "at hand".
> >
> > >It's not something to be arrived-at later -- as in "getting to heaven one day".
> >
> > >It's NOW...!
> >
> > So, what prevents us getting/being there?
> >
> > I came across this poem, by Hafiz.
> >
> >
> > It Felt Love
> >
> > How
> > Did the rose
> > Ever open its heart
> >
> > And give to the world
> > All its
> > Beauty?
> >
> > It felt the encouragement of light
> > Against its
> > Being,
> >
> > Otherwise,
> > We all remain
> >
> > Too
> >
> > Frightened.
>
> Sigismund,
> You wrote,[...what prevents us...?].
> It has been revealed to me that there are many things that prevent one from entering the Kingdom of God for entering the Kingdom is by being birthed into it. When we were born of the flesh, we had no party to our birth, it was outside of our ability to be born. There was a father and a mother.
> It has been revealed to me that mankind was created out of the dust of the ground and God breathed into him the breath of life which is spirit, like a seed, but that spirit did not germinate because Adam did not partake of the tree of life which would have given him conception to the God-life, but partook of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil that leads to death without the Water of life, the Word of God.
> This birthing into the kingdom of God has been revealed to me to be a conceiving of God's spirit with the already spirit in man to germinate the seed of God-life, to enter the Kingdom of God.
> It has been revealed to me that this birthing is like the birthing of the flesh in that we have nothing to do with it, for as our flesh father and mother caused us to be born of the flesh which leads to death from the carnal mind, our spirit father and mother causes us to be born of the spirit, which is light and eternal life.
> It has been revealed to me like you have posted here about the flower. For a seed needs water and light which gives heat to germinate. This water and this light in the spiritual birth is spiritual light and spiritual water. When I studied Botany, I learned that a plant will be drawn to the light and grow toward it and if kept in the dark without water, the seed will not germinate for there is no light for it to be drawn to.
> It has been revealed to me that there is a light drawing all men to God's spirit. For as I stood on the sand next to the sea, the Rider said to me," Arise,shine; for your light has come!
> And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you.
> For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
> And deep darkness the people;
> But the Lord will arise over you,
> And His glory will be seen upon you."
> Lou
>
>
Sigismund,
You wrote,[...what prevents us getting there...?(The Kingdom of God)].
It has been revealed to me that one is birthed into the Kingdom of God for it is a spiritual kingdom of light and life in contrast to the flesh kingdom of darkness and death. It has been revealed to me that partaking of the Tree of Life can impart God-life into a person and that could then be a way to enter the Kingdom of God. It has been revealed to me that the Tree of Life in the midst of the Garden was there with God in the beginning. And it has been revealed to me that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. This has been revealed to me that the Tree of Life was and is The Word of God and is God. It has been revealed to me that the Word of God washes, it is like water of the spiritual kind, like the water of life. It has been revealed to me that The Tree of Life and the Water of Life and The Word of God are interelated and that God provides the Water and the Light for All to be born of God. For it has been revealed to me that all we like sheep have gone astray and that God is the spirit of all and invites all to come into His Kingdom
But it has also been revealed to me that, like you write here, that there are those that think that they are {prevented} from partaking of the water of life. And it has been revealed to me that God is calling all to partake of the tree of life if they are thirsty for that water. It has been revealed to me that that water is the water of rightiousness and that he that thirsts for that water will be filled with God's Spirit and be born from above.
I hope that you do not get me wrong here, for it has ben revealed to me that God is the Father of the birth from above and we can not have party to that, but when one has a thirst for rightiousness, it has been revealed to me that God is birthing you into The Kingdom of God, and that the Kingdom of God is not of this world and is a kingdom of rightiousness and peace in the Spirit of God.
And when I stood on the sand by the sea, the Rider said to me, "Let not your heart be troubled, you believe in God, believe also in me. In the beginning there was the Tree of Life in the midst of the Garden. I am the Tree of Life. I am the Vine. Abide in me, and I in you and you shall overcome and eat of The Tree of Life which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-wtrnlght Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on March 5, 2008, at 14:34:06

In reply to Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-wtrnlght Sigismund, posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2008, at 9:19:31

Good stuff, Lou.

Here's a question for you, that I know others might ask, because of the traditional teachings...

You say we have no part in being born, physically (it happens TO us).

So, too, you say we have no part in being born again, spiritually...

What of those who point out that we're told to come, by faith, and they would say we must "make a decision" to believe. We must choose to trust.

What would you say to those who would say that?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-bfrthefondtnvthewrld Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2008, at 17:12:59

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-wtrnlght Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on March 5, 2008, at 14:34:06

> Good stuff, Lou.
>
> Here's a question for you, that I know others might ask, because of the traditional teachings...
>
> You say we have no part in being born, physically (it happens TO us).
>
> So, too, you say we have no part in being born again, spiritually...
>
> What of those who point out that we're told to come, by faith, and they would say we must "make a decision" to believe. We must choose to trust.
>
> What would you say to those who would say that?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...what of those...].
Before I can reply to that, I think that there is something that has been revealed to me that all of the biblical revelation could take on a different perspective as compared to if this revealtion to me is not included.
This revelation is made to the Jews in their scriptures and being a Jew the revealtion that I receive then comes from a Jewish perspective.
The revelation here for this discussion is that it has been revealed to me that all men were spirits before they became born of the flesh and that we were spirit beings that had fellowship with God before the foundation of the world. This then brings to me what has been revealed to me as the purpose of our birth here and I am comming to that. This then could all be tied into this discussion.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-wtrnlght Dena

Posted by Sigismund on March 5, 2008, at 18:32:58

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-wtrnlght Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on March 5, 2008, at 14:34:06

I doubt that it is the same thing as faith, though it might be.

What about those people who find a way to live in the present?

 

Re: Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-wtrnlght Sigismund

Posted by Dena on March 5, 2008, at 18:43:02

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-wtrnlght Dena, posted by Sigismund on March 5, 2008, at 18:32:58

> I doubt that it is the same thing as faith, though it might be.
>
> What about those people who find a way to live in the present?
>
>

I'm sorry -- lots going on in my life... what's not the same as faith?

And can you rephrase your last question? I'm not sure I'm following the conversation, and can't remember what I said last!

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-bfrthefondtnvthewrld Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on March 5, 2008, at 18:46:46

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-bfrthefondtnvthewrld Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2008, at 17:12:59

Hoo-boy, Lou, now you're messing with tradition...! ;)

You're sounding a bit like Rayww, now...!

(the LDS teaching includes a pre-existence)

Is this revelation anything like that teaching? If so, or if not, how?

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-wtrnlght Dena

Posted by Sigismund on March 6, 2008, at 1:48:38

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-wtrnlght Sigismund, posted by Dena on March 5, 2008, at 18:43:02

I never had trouble imagining that the Kingdom of Heaven was spread out in front of me and that I could not see it.

I have wondered if that is the same thing as living in the present.

It sounds a little dull, living in the present does, and I wouldn't know as I'm always caught up in my thoughts, but I like the William Blake idea that if the doors of perception were cleansed then everything would be something (which, of course I forget) and holy. Since we're chatting about whatever and it seems vaguely relevant let me paste this.....

And the pool was filled with water out of sunlight,
And the lotos rose, quietly, quietly,
The surface glittered out of heart of light,
And they were behind us, reflected in the pool.
Then a cloud passed, and the pool was empty.
Go, said the bird, for the leaves were full of children,
Hidden excitedly, containing laughter.
Go, go, go, said the bird: human kind
Cannot bear very much reality.
(Eliot, Burnt Norton)

But this is what I was after (down the page a little)......

Yet the enchantment of past and future
Woven in the weakness of the changing body,
Protects mankind from heaven and damnation
Which flesh cannot endure.


And isn't he there talking about living in the present?

 

Info on the internet

Posted by Sigismund on March 6, 2008, at 1:54:05

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Sigismund's question-wtrnlght Dena, posted by Sigismund on March 6, 2008, at 1:48:38

No wonder we're going downhill.

It is NOT 'enchantment'.

It is 'enchainment'.

'Yet the enchainment of past and future' etc etc

 

Lou's reply to Dena-preex Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on March 6, 2008, at 14:42:09

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-bfrthefondtnvthewrld Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on March 5, 2008, at 18:46:46

> Hoo-boy, Lou, now you're messing with tradition...! ;)
>
> You're sounding a bit like Rayww, now...!
>
> (the LDS teaching includes a pre-existence)
>
> Is this revelation anything like that teaching? If so, or if not, how?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...tradition...anything like...?]
I am not aquainted with the doctrine that the LDS has in regards to preexistence.
Lou

 

Re: Info on the internet Sigismund

Posted by Dena on March 6, 2008, at 19:14:21

In reply to Info on the internet, posted by Sigismund on March 6, 2008, at 1:54:05

Well, that DOES change things a bit, no...? ;)

Tell me, Sigimund -- what does that poem speak to you?

Shalom, Dena


"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."

 

Lou's reply to Dena-preex Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on March 6, 2008, at 20:32:31

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-wdvgd Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on March 2, 2008, at 23:44:42

> Yes, the Kingdom of God is within, and meant to be expressed through us. It's "at hand".
>
> It's not something to be arrived-at later -- as in "getting to heaven one day".
>
> It's NOW...!
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[..the Kingdom of God... is.. at hand...].
Yes , I believe that it is, for it has been revealed to me that I was once in the kingdom of heaven before I was born on the earth and that I will return there.
I remember the green valleys and the still, clear waters. And I remember the clear skies and an Almighty love. I remember the lilies of the field and the birds that filled the air with laughter and singing. And I remember that day when all the trees in the fields claped their hands. And I remember the mountain tops that broke forth through the white clouds.
The dark clouds are here now in this life. The waters are dark and rushing, there is darkness over the land. But I will return to the kingdom of heaven. I will see the clear waters. I will see the green valleys and sing and laugh with the birds in the air. I will see the lilies of the field. I will return to the Almighty love. I will return to the mountiantop and my eyes will see the comming of the glory of the lord.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-preex Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on March 6, 2008, at 22:21:28

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-preex Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on March 6, 2008, at 20:32:31

Not to be persnickety here, Lou, but are there any Scriptures to support the view that we were with God before this life?

Very curious...

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: Info on the internet Dena

Posted by sigismund on March 7, 2008, at 4:14:11

In reply to Re: Info on the internet Sigismund, posted by Dena on March 6, 2008, at 19:14:21

The only experience I had that involved the dissolution of past and future (if only because you could hardly remember them, or even more because you couldn't see the point), was the LSD thing.

So my feeling became that reality was amazing but somehow we manage to hide from it, we get trapped, we can't see.
Something like that.

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-preex Dena

Posted by rayww on March 7, 2008, at 11:17:30

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-preex Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on March 6, 2008, at 22:21:28

May I add (some of) what I found when I did a search on LDS.org on "existence"?

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/job/38/4-7#4
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jer/1/5#5
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/2/4-5#4
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/moses/3/4-7#4
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/luke/24/39#39
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/131/7#7

The first list is from the Bible, except one from the book of Moses.
The following is not found in the Bible, but nevertheless, it is what the rider on the white horse revealed to another :) We call him Jesus. Others call him something else, but most of us believe in one description or other of him.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_ne/11/11#11
(tree of life)
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/moses/6/51#51
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/3/15-16#15
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/3/21-24#21
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/77/2#2

 

Re: Info on the internet sigismund

Posted by Dena on March 7, 2008, at 18:17:28

In reply to Re: Info on the internet Dena, posted by sigismund on March 7, 2008, at 4:14:11

I see... I had my foray with mind-altering substances, years ago... though not that one. I think God protected me, as I certainly didn't have wisdom at the time...!

I believe the Truth is all around us... the Kingdom is right here... only, as you say, we get trapped in what blinds us...

... but I've come to trust in the one who said He came to bring sight to the blind...

Shalom, Dena

"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."

 

Lou's reply to Sigismund's post-otvthedrknes sigismund

Posted by Lou Pilder on March 7, 2008, at 20:17:49

In reply to Re: Info on the internet Dena, posted by sigismund on March 7, 2008, at 4:14:11

> The only experience I had that involved the dissolution of past and future (if only because you could hardly remember them, or even more because you couldn't see the point), was the LSD thing.
>
> So my feeling became that reality was amazing but somehow we manage to hide from it, we get trapped, we can't see.
> Something like that.

Sigismund,
You wrote,[...we ..hide...get trapped...can't see..].
It has been revealed to me that he that overcomes will be allowed by God to eat of the Tree of Life which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. It is this overcomming that I have been writing about, for it has been revealed to me that it is the overcommers that become born of the Spirit and have The Life. This is the first step that the overcommer takes.
There are 7 steps that the overcommer takes and 7 is the symbol used in the bible for completness. It has been revealed to me that the first step when overcomming is the imparting of The Life from above which gives the overcommer a new heart and a new spirit.
But what is this about overcomming? It has been revealed to me that one thing to overcome is the carnal mind, that puts us in a state of darkness and death. This state has been revealed to me to be the result of the serpent subsisting on man's mind from the beginning in the Garden. Is not to overcome to be victorious?. It has been revealed to me that God puts trials in fromt of us for a reason and when we overcome these things, as to whatever they are, we can eat of the Tree of life and go to the next step.
You wrote about hiding and being trapped and can't see. It has been revealed to me that the devil uses crafty means to trap the minds of people and blind their minds so that they are in a state of a living death. What is the remedy, what must one do that is down in the pit of darkness, trapped of the carnal mind and is thinking about death?
I asked the rider that question and He said to me, "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he shall flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord and He will lift you up."
Lou

 

Re: Info on the internet Dena

Posted by sigismund on March 8, 2008, at 0:51:43

In reply to Re: Info on the internet sigismund, posted by Dena on March 7, 2008, at 18:17:28

'I hear what I am seeing. I think what I am smelling, I am music, I am climbing into the music.'

"One River"

 

Re: Info on the internet Dena

Posted by Sigismund on March 13, 2008, at 10:57:36

In reply to Re: Info on the internet sigismund, posted by Dena on March 7, 2008, at 18:17:28

Dena

I've perhaps sounded unneccessarily cryptic.

I have just been reading 'One River' and it made an impression on me.

Here is a page from it. It is only tangentially related to the Kingdom of Heaven thing, but you may find it interesting.
I found it very moving, though that might have been because it is well written.

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20070708/msgs/817423.html


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