Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 799425

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Lou's reply to Dena-trevlif Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 13, 2008, at 12:43:17

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-duece Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 12, 2008, at 23:07:23

> Sorry for the delay, Lou...
>
> So, are you saying that it's an attitude of the heart, whether I'm trusting in the One who gives Life Bread, or in an idol (represented by a Great Beast, seeking to devour...)?
>
> Are you saying that there is no time coming (end time), in which people will receive a "mark" with which to buy and sell, and thus "sell themselves" over to the Beast, with those who refuse to do so receiving tribulation?
>
> That it's all figurative, and indicative of a spiritual condition...?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote.[...attitude of the heart...trusting...The Bread of Life...idol...the mark...spiritual condition...end time...tribulation...]
The symbols in the book called Revelation have been revealed to me and they come from the scriptures that the Jews use. The book in it's entirety has an overiding message that I see in the book.
I see that one aspect of the overiding message is that man has been expelled from The Tree of Life. This is in the book called Genesis. In The Garden, man had a personal relationship with God and dwelled together. Then God drove man out of The Garden and we read in the third chapter verses 22 on;
[...Then God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the Tree of Life, and eat, and live forever"
Then God sent him out of the Garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubin at the east of the garden of Eden and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to The Tree of Life."...].
The Tree of Life is found in the book called Revelation and the cherubin guard the way back.
The book called revelation is a Great Guide to lead one back to The Tree of Life. The book describes an Overcomming. The Overcomming leads one to the Tree of Life and a place where one can dwell with God and the cherubin open the Gate to The Father's House.
The book tells of the nearness to The Gate that the cherubins guard. That Gate is near, it is At Hand.
The book tells of a bongage. It tells of idols of the heart and kingdoms that comtroll us and become destroyed. And the book tells of a Kingdom that will never be destroyed, a Kingdom within us.
And those that read the book called Revelation are promised a blessing. And the book tells that there will be great tribulation on the jouney back to The Tree of Life which is in the midst of Paradise of God.
As I stood on the shore with the Rider, I was experianceing great tribulation. I asked the Rider, "How long will be the suffering?" The Rider said to me, "Fear none of those things which you shall suffer, that you may be tested. Be faithfull until death and I will give you The Crown of Life."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-trevlif Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 13, 2008, at 12:58:58

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-trevlif Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 13, 2008, at 12:43:17

So, the book of Revelation is a symbolic description of how I begin my journey, locked out of the Garden, unable to get to the Tree of Life, now burdened with knowing good and evil (& therefore trusting in my own fallible wisdom, which leads to destruction), and that there will be trials and testings in my life, designed to bring me to the end of my bondage to idolotry, designed to show me how to become an Overcomer, to enter the Kingdom which is at hand, and to be led back to the Tree of Life -- that this is a journey, frought with tribulation, which I will be shown how (& enabled) to overcome.

Am I describing it as you see it? Am I missing something?

What else are you wanting to show...?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-hidnmna Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2008, at 20:17:19

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-trevlif Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 13, 2008, at 12:58:58

> So, the book of Revelation is a symbolic description of how I begin my journey, locked out of the Garden, unable to get to the Tree of Life, now burdened with knowing good and evil (& therefore trusting in my own fallible wisdom, which leads to destruction), and that there will be trials and testings in my life, designed to bring me to the end of my bondage to idolotry, designed to show me how to become an Overcomer, to enter the Kingdom which is at hand, and to be led back to the Tree of Life -- that this is a journey, frought with tribulation, which I will be shown how (& enabled) to overcome.
>
> Am I describing it as you see it? Am I missing something?
>
> What else are you wanting to show...?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...led back to The Tree of Life...]
When Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden, they could not go back to eat of the Tree of Life for it was guarded by cherubin. The children of Israel that were delivered from bondage were given manna from heaven to eat. They ate of that bread and died. That bread was picked up each day. If that bread was left to the next day, it corrupted with worms and would stink.
As we can read in the book called the revelation, in chapter 2 verse 17;
[...To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the hidden manna...]
This symbol could be well known to the Jews that were versed in their scriptures. The symbol could be from the book called Jeremiah the 15th chapter, the 16th verse which reads;[...Your words were found and I did eat them and your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart...] The children of Israel ate the manna from heaven and died. That manna was physical manna. It is my conviction that the hidden manna, is a spiritual manna that is The Word of God. When one eats of the hidden manna, a Jew could see this symbol as bringing in to their being spiritual life. For the bible defines the carnal (physical) mind as death, and the spiritual mind as life and peace which gives joy.
It has been revealed to me that the overcommers will eat of the hidden manna. This manna will give revelation that is hidden about the uncorruptable life. The overcommers can be transformed in their minds from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind by the Bread of Life, the hidden manna, the Word of God, our Daily Bread, the bread that came down from heaven that gives life to the world.
Lou

Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-hidnmna Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 14, 2008, at 23:07:04

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-hidnmna Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2008, at 20:17:19

Lou -

We keep coming back to the overcomers ... can anyone be an overcomer? How does one overcome? What is needed to be overcome?

What is the connection between the overcomers and the Bread of Life, Word of God, who brings life to the world?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-chldnvgd Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 15, 2008, at 11:38:28

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-hidnmna Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 14, 2008, at 23:07:04

> Lou -
>
> We keep coming back to the overcomers ... can anyone be an overcomer? How does one overcome? What is needed to be overcome?
>
> What is the connection between the overcomers and the Bread of Life, Word of God, who brings life to the world?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...overcomers...what is needed...the connection...].
The book called revelation ends with those that overcome being with God and eating of the Tree of Life. The scriptures that the Jews use start out with God making man in his image and being banished from the garden so that he can not eat of the Tree of Life but did eat of the Tree of the knowlege of good and evil.
Man left the Garden with a nature. It is that nature of man, the nature without eating of the Tree of Life, that is part of what is involved in overcoming. In the 3erd chapter of the book called revelation in the 21st verse we read;
[...To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne; even as I also overcame and am set down with my Father in His throne...].
And in the 2end chapter, the 17th verse, we read,[...To him that overcomes will I give ...{a new name}...known only to those that receive it...].
A new name. Not the name of man. In our nature without eating of the Tree of Life, we have a nature that Jews could be led to understanding in reading their scriptures. In the book called Jeremiah, the 17th chapter, the 7th verse we read,[...Blessed is the man that trusts in the Lord and whose hope the Lord is.
For he shall be as a {tree} planted by the waters and that spreads out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat comes, but her leaf shall be green: and shall not be carful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit...].
As I read the passages from that book, I go on and in the next verse it reads,[..The heart is deceitful above all, and desperatly wicked: who can know it?...]
As a Jew reading John's penned verses, the symbols stand out to me as the hidden manna, the secrets of God that can be revealed to those that seek Him and choose life. This thread was initiated by a member here asking if the bible talked about suicide. I have been answering that question. For as we go on, it has been revealed to me that there is a nature of man that he brought with him after being expelled from the garden and it is that nature that I see as what is part of what is involved in overcoming. For in the book called Jeremiah, in the 31st chapter, the 31st verse we read, and it is my conviction that the following verses are in relation to overcoming,[...Behold the days come, says the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with The House of Israel...not like the one that was made with the fathers when they were led out of bondage in Egypt, but a covenant where I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God and they shall be my people."...]
It has been revealed to me that The Tree of Life has the fruit that if one eats of it, they are released from bondage. Adam had a nature of bondage, for he was kept from eating from the Tree of Life. But one can eat of the Tree of Life now. For bread has come down from heaven. The secrets of God can be revealed, the hidden manna. We can eat of the hidden manna. We eat of the hidden manna by presenting ourselves as a living sacrifice by not being conformed to the nature that we have from not eating of the Tree of Life.
Then there is the world, and it has been revealed to me that we can overcome by not being conformed to the world that has made images that men are forced to bow down to or be killed.
Then there are powers in high places governed by the {prince} of those powers (let him that is reading understand) that we wrestle with. It has been revealed to me that if we resist those powers, they will flee from you.
It has been revealed to me that we can overcome if we abhor that which is evil and cleave to that which is good; and not to be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good.
As I stood on the sand of the shore with the Rider, I asked what is the first thing I could do to overcome. The Rider said to me, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them that despitefully use you, and persecute you. That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-chldnvgd Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 16, 2008, at 2:26:59

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-chldnvgd Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 15, 2008, at 11:38:28

Lou -

So then, how does one eat from the Tree of Life, in order to be released from bondage?

What more do you have to show us, from what you experienced?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-grtglf Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 16, 2008, at 16:57:45

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-chldnvgd Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 16, 2008, at 2:26:59

> Lou -
>
> So then, how does one eat from the Tree of Life, in order to be released from bondage?
>
> What more do you have to show us, from what you experienced?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...how does one eat of the Tree of Life to be released from bondage?....]
The tree of life was in the midst of the garden and so was the tree of the knowlege of good and evil. When Adam ate of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil, God said that he then became as a God for he now knew good and evil. God then sent him out of the garden so that he would not eat of the tree of life and live forever.
Now man was alive before he ate of the tree of the the knowlege of good and evil so he did not have to eat of the tree of life to have life. He was created from the dust of the ground and became a living soul. A living soul was as a natural being. The tree of life would have given him the life of God and he could live forever. But Adam did not eat of that tree and died, for he did not have God-life. God-life could have been obtained if he ate of the tree of life.
The tree of life could have given Adam a spiritual life that would live forever, wheras the tree of the knowlege of good and evil gave Adam a carnal life, that would die.
I have talked here about The Great Gulf. The Great Gulf that I originally wrote about here was an impassible gulf. It separated the carnal man from the spiritual man. It has been revealed to me that to be carnally minded leads to death, just as Adam died. And it has been revealed to me that to be spiritually minded is life and peace which leads to the life of God, eternal.
The Great Gulf separates two Kingdoms. To eat of the tree of life is to be in the Kingdom of God. The tree of life is available now, to all. One can cross over the Great Gulf. For one has already done so and has told of how the Gate will open to cross over to The Kingdom of God of life, from the kingdom of death.
What one does to open the Gate to the bridge to cross over the Great Gulf has been revealed to me. For when you are in great tribulation and are suffereing from great injustice and people have falsely accused you and said all manner of evil against you, there was one in whose last breath opened the Gate to The Kingdom of God. God accepted His plea for the world to eat of the Tree of Life. And God can honor that same plea when you want to cross over the Great Gulf from death to life.
You may be in the greatest pain of your life. And be shamed and ridiculed and mocked and taunted by others. You may be entraped and used as a scapegoat by others. You may have such hatred toward those that have persecuted you that you want vengance toward them. They may be taking your life away. But the Gate can open, for it has been revealed to me that One has given us the Way to open the Gate. In His last minuets of life He thought that God had forsaken Him. Yet the Gate to heaven opened when He said, "Father, forgive them: for they know not what they do."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-grtglf Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 16, 2008, at 23:04:37

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-grtglf Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 16, 2008, at 16:57:45

Yes, Lou -- I believe that.

I've come to believe that as He was dying, and He prayed to His Father, saying, "forgive them, for they don't know what they're doing," that He was not focused on those who had acted out the execution, nor was He focused on the ones who had pronounced the sentence, nor the ones who desired Him dead (clearly, NONE of them knew what they were doing). I believe He was thinking of ALL of us -- all human beings -- for none of us knows what we're doing, either, and He knows that better than we do. I believe He was choosing to be a "cure" for that which was killing us. And, I dare to believe that His Father did not deny Him in answering that prayer, and that one way or another, no matter what it takes, or how long (firey ordeals, whether in this age or the age to come), that His prayer, and His "cure" will indeed redeem everyone.

I also no longer believe that His Father forsake Him, or separated Himself from Him, as He was dying -- I no longer believe that He leaves us when we do wrong things.

I believe that when I choose to do selfish, or harmful things, that I may FEEL like God has turned away from me (my false perception, due to spiritual darkness at that moment), but that He is still there, with me, understanding, wooing me to Him.

I believe that when the One who is The Way was dying, and took on all the sins of the world, becoming the Cure, He only PERCEIVED that God had forsaken Him, but He was right there, for they cannot be separated.

Likewise, I believe that nothing can separate me from the love of God - nothing.

I believe that He responded to my plea to Him -- as HE will with anyone.

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 15:30:32

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-grtglf Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 16, 2008, at 23:04:37

> Yes, Lou -- I believe that.
>
> I've come to believe that as He was dying, and He prayed to His Father, saying, "forgive them, for they don't know what they're doing," that He was not focused on those who had acted out the execution, nor was He focused on the ones who had pronounced the sentence, nor the ones who desired Him dead (clearly, NONE of them knew what they were doing). I believe He was thinking of ALL of us -- all human beings -- for none of us knows what we're doing, either, and He knows that better than we do. I believe He was choosing to be a "cure" for that which was killing us. And, I dare to believe that His Father did not deny Him in answering that prayer, and that one way or another, no matter what it takes, or how long (firey ordeals, whether in this age or the age to come), that His prayer, and His "cure" will indeed redeem everyone.
>
> I also no longer believe that His Father forsake Him, or separated Himself from Him, as He was dying -- I no longer believe that He leaves us when we do wrong things.
>
> I believe that when I choose to do selfish, or harmful things, that I may FEEL like God has turned away from me (my false perception, due to spiritual darkness at that moment), but that He is still there, with me, understanding, wooing me to Him.
>
> I believe that when the One who is The Way was dying, and took on all the sins of the world, becoming the Cure, He only PERCEIVED that God had forsaken Him, but He was right there, for they cannot be separated.
>
> Likewise, I believe that nothing can separate me from the love of God - nothing.
>
> I believe that He responded to my plea to Him -- as HE will with anyone.
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
>
Dena,
You wrote,[...Yes,...I believe that...a cure for that which is killing us...fiery ordeals...with anyone...].
[...The tree of Life..the heart of man...the kingdom of God...the great gulf...the many mansions...the temple of God...the natural man...the spititual man...the wicked heart...the crown of life...the hidden manna...they know not...].
We have been talking here about what the bible says or desn't say about suicide. We have been talking about the beast that John saw that came out of the sea. We have been talking about that one could eat of the Tree of Life and have God-life, eternal life, a spiritual life and that the natural man's mind is a carnal mind that leads to death and that a spiritual mind leads to life and peace.
There were trees in the garden. And it has been revealed to me that man is symbolic as a tree. As a Jew reading John's penned book the symbol of the tree stands glaringly out at me and I am led to the book called Isaiah, the 61st chapter, verses 1 and on as we read,
[...The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me to declare good tidings to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted and proclaim liberty to the captives...and to comfort all those that mourn.
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called a trees of rightiousness, The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified....].
it has been revealed to me that when I passed over the great gulf that I have been writing about, I found myself in The House of the Lord. All things were new, for I had a new spirit and a new heart. I felt as a mansion in The Father's House.
Man left the garden with a natural heart, for he did not eat of the tree of life that could have given him a spiritual heart. It has been revealed to me that the natural man with a natural heart can not eat of the tree of life, for the tree of life is a spiritual tree. And we can become spiritual beings with a spiritual heart. And we can be born over with a new heart and a new spirit.
And when I passed over the great gulf there was a Rider on a White Horse to meet me. He said to me, "I will give you a new heart, and put a new spirit within you. I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh. I will put my spirit within you. Then you shall dwell in the land that David wrote about, The House of the Lord, and you will be in my family and I will be your God, for in My Father's House, there are many mansions."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 17, 2008, at 17:15:31

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 15:30:32

I was just reading that (in the version I use): "there are many rooms in my Father's household".

What else do you want to show us that was revealed to you, Lou?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-mnymnsns Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 19:03:26

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 17, 2008, at 17:15:31

> I was just reading that (in the version I use): "there are many rooms in my Father's household".
>
> What else do you want to show us that was revealed to you, Lou?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
Here is a link to a mansion that I was in. It is in Ashville, North Carolina, the Biltmore House built by the Vanderbilts in the late 1800s.
It is surrounded by the Blue Ridge Mountians and the gardens are something to see.
I have wondered if Mr. Vanderbilt was attempting to replicate the Garden of Eden or a mansion in The Father's House.
My understanding is that the Temple of Solomon that had God reside in it, being destroyed, gave our body to be the replacement Temple of God.
Lou
http://andyandfrank.com/4%20biltmore%20house.JPG

 

Lou's reply to Dena-gardens

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 20:18:16

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-mnymnsns Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 19:03:26

> > I was just reading that (in the version I use): "there are many rooms in my Father's household".
> >
> > What else do you want to show us that was revealed to you, Lou?
> >
> > Shalom, Dena
>
> Dena,
> Here is a link to a mansion that I was in. It is in Ashville, North Carolina, the Biltmore House built by the Vanderbilts in the late 1800s.
> It is surrounded by the Blue Ridge Mountians and the gardens are something to see.
> I have wondered if Mr. Vanderbilt was attempting to replicate the Garden of Eden or a mansion in The Father's House.
> My understanding is that the Temple of Solomon that had God reside in it, being destroyed, gave our body to be the replacement Temple of God.
> Lou
> http://andyandfrank.com/4%20biltmore%20house.JPG
>
>
Dena,
Here is a link to a photo of the gardens at the Biltmore House.
I spent many hours going through those gardens and I can still see the flowers and smell the aroma. If at any time you are near Ashville, N.C. in the spring or summer, I think that seeing the mansion and the gardens is a worthwhile experiance.
Lou
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2413274680011963314suWGOD

 

Lou's reply to Dena-gardens-B

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 20:49:16

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-gardens, posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 20:18:16

> > > I was just reading that (in the version I use): "there are many rooms in my Father's household".
> > >
> > > What else do you want to show us that was revealed to you, Lou?
> > >
> > > Shalom, Dena
> >
> > Dena,
> > Here is a link to a mansion that I was in. It is in Ashville, North Carolina, the Biltmore House built by the Vanderbilts in the late 1800s.
> > It is surrounded by the Blue Ridge Mountians and the gardens are something to see.
> > I have wondered if Mr. Vanderbilt was attempting to replicate the Garden of Eden or a mansion in The Father's House.
> > My understanding is that the Temple of Solomon that had God reside in it, being destroyed, gave our body to be the replacement Temple of God.
> > Lou
> > http://andyandfrank.com/4%20biltmore%20house.JPG
> >
> >
> Dena,
> Here is a link to a photo of the gardens at the Biltmore House.
> I spent many hours going through those gardens and I can still see the flowers and smell the aroma. If at any time you are near Ashville, N.C. in the spring or summer, I think that seeing the mansion and the gardens is a worthwhile experiance.
> Lou
> http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2413274680011963314suWGOD
>

Dena,
Here is another good link to Asheville and the gardens at the Biltmore house
Loi
http://smokyphotos.com/photo85.htm

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-gardens-B Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 17, 2008, at 21:52:30

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-gardens-B, posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 20:49:16

I've always been fascinated by the Biltmore house -- I adore Victorian architecture (& I now live in a Victorian house, circa 1900).

Those garden photos are lovely -- are they your photos from your trip? I love the combination of groomed orderliness, and rampant wild colors!

It wouldn't surprise me a bit to discover that many of our attempts to create, to beautify, to build, to plant, to sing, to draw, to express ourselves creatively, aren't just innate expressions of us, who are made in God's image, trying to recapture the innocent beauty and intimacy of the Garden...

It reminds me of the incredible allegory of the Garden in the book, "The Shack" -- have you yet read that book, Lou? It very much fits in with this conversation...

What's next in your experience...?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2008, at 9:30:11

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-gardens-B Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 17, 2008, at 21:52:30

> I've always been fascinated by the Biltmore house -- I adore Victorian architecture (& I now live in a Victorian house, circa 1900).
>
> Those garden photos are lovely -- are they your photos from your trip? I love the combination of groomed orderliness, and rampant wild colors!
>
> It wouldn't surprise me a bit to discover that many of our attempts to create, to beautify, to build, to plant, to sing, to draw, to express ourselves creatively, aren't just innate expressions of us, who are made in God's image, trying to recapture the innocent beauty and intimacy of the Garden...
>
> It reminds me of the incredible allegory of the Garden in the book, "The Shack" -- have you yet read that book, Lou? It very much fits in with this conversation...
>
> What's next in your experience...?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...recapture the...of the Garden...]
When I read the book called The Revelation, reading the 2end chapter the 7th verse;
[...To him that overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life which is in the midst of the Paradise of God...].
As a Jew, I was led to the book called Genesis, the 2end chapter, the 9th verse;
[...and out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil...]. And in the 3erd chapter from the 22end verse;
[...God drove man out of the garden and placed a guard so that Adam could not come back and eat of the tree of life. For if he did eat of that tree, he could become as a God and have God-life, which is eternal life and live forever...]
Here we have in the beginning the tree of life in the garden for the first man that did not eat of it and in the book called the Revelation, man can eat, at last, from the tree of life. The tree of life has the bread that can free one from bondage. The tree of life is available to those that overcome.
I believe that Dr. Martin Luther King jr had in mind the tree of life and that he had been in The Paradise of God. I believe that he ate of the tree of life and his message was for others to eat of that tree to be free. I believe that is what he meant when in his last words in his famous speech he cited;
[..Free at last; free at last. Thank God almighty we are free at last...].
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 19, 2008, at 20:56:48

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2008, at 9:30:11

I see that "the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations"... and that the river of life goes from the throne of God (which is in New Jerusalem), and flows out of the city...

... it echoes the river of life mentioned in Ezekiel, which brings life to everything it touches, except for the salt marshes (and salt is a preservative -- and we are salted by fire).

I see that the river of life goes past the tree of life, and that outside are all those who cannot yet come in to the City... those who resist Him.

But the gates of the City are open 24/7, and inside, the Spirit and the Bride call out, "Come".

It seems to me that they're beckoning to those outside the City... to taste and see that the Lord is good, to come to believe, to become an overcomer, and to come IN, to LIVE.

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-rivoflif Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 20, 2008, at 10:41:42

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 19, 2008, at 20:56:48

> I see that "the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations"... and that the river of life goes from the throne of God (which is in New Jerusalem), and flows out of the city...
>
> ... it echoes the river of life mentioned in Ezekiel, which brings life to everything it touches, except for the salt marshes (and salt is a preservative -- and we are salted by fire).
>
> I see that the river of life goes past the tree of life, and that outside are all those who cannot yet come in to the City... those who resist Him.
>
> But the gates of the City are open 24/7, and inside, the Spirit and the Bride call out, "Come".
>
> It seems to me that they're beckoning to those outside the City... to taste and see that the Lord is good, to come to believe, to become an overcomer, and to come IN, to LIVE.
>
> Shalom, Dena

DEna,
You wrote,[...the River of Life...Ezekial...the tree of life...those outside...].
In the book called The Revelation, in the 22 chapter we read in verse 1,
[...And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal...]
And in verse 17,
[...And let him that thirsts come and whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely...]
And in the book called Genesis, the 2end chapter from verse 9,
[...The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden...a river went out of Edan to water the garden...]
The river watered the garden and the tree of life. The tree of life was God-life, eternal that could live forever. The water in the river was needed to give the tree of life, God-life. It was a combining of the water, which has been revealed to me to be {God's Spirit}, with the tree. The tree, as it has been revealed to me, was The Word of God. The water, {Spirit}, combined with the {word},the tree, produced eternal life. For it has been revealed to me that in the beginning was the Word. And the Word was God and in Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. And in the book called Ezekial, the 47th chapter the 9th verse reads,
[...And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever the rivers go, will live...]
It has been revealed to me that The River of Life is the Spirit of Life, for when I was on the shore, seeing the beast come out of the sea, the Rider said to me, "I shall be with you a little while longer and then I will go to Him that sent me. You will seek me and not find me, and where I am, you cannot come. And if you believe on The Word of God and thirst for life, out of your heart will flow rivers of living water, for the Spirit of life will be sent to you." And then He said to me, " And everyone that has that thirst and comes to the Waters of Life can drink freely and let the wicked forsake his way return to the Lord,for He will abundantly pardon.
For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
And do not return there,
But water the earth,
And make it bring forth the bud,
That it may give seed to the sower
And bread to the eater,
So shall My word be that goes forth from my mouth.
For you shall go out with joy,
And be led out with peace;
The mountains and the hills
Shall break forth with singing before you,
And all the trees of the field shall clap their hands."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-rivoflif Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 20, 2008, at 22:55:26

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-rivoflif Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 20, 2008, at 10:41:42

Lou -

What is the meaning of the symbolism of the beast rising up out of the sea?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-beastoutvthesea Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2008, at 8:58:01

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-rivoflif Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 20, 2008, at 22:55:26

> Lou -
>
> What is the meaning of the symbolism of the beast rising up out of the sea?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...symbolism..beast...sea...].
When John penned the book called The revelation, I believe that what he penned was intended for at least Jewish people that were versed in their scriptures and so that the symbols used could be understood by them. Then they could speak the meanings of the symbols to those not versed in the scriptures that the Jews used.
The book says that what is in it is {to the 7 "churches"}. The English word, "church" means {the called out by the God that the Jews worship}. It has been revealed to me that the "7" churches then are symbolic of the {complete} group of the called out by God, 7 being the symbolic number that Jews consider to be meaning to be {complete}. The people in those called out by the God that the Jews worship groups, then have been revealed to me to be all of those people in all ages. This then has been revealed to me to mean that the book is to all those at anytime that are reading it, be it in the time period when John penned it, or anytime after that, being now or 1000000 years from now.
The book writes that anyone that reads it will be blessed. The book writes that the one that penned it, John, was in Spirit at the time of penning it. It was what was revealed to him by an angel of God. And the book writes that it is to {he that has an ear} to let him hear what {The Spirit} says to {the churches}.
My friends, it is my deep conviction that anyone that is reading this has an ear to hear and that the hearing will be a spiritual hearing. I base this on what I believe to be that the Word of God is what the God that the Jews worship use to draw all men to Him.
The Jews had a king, David. He was the king of the nation of Israel. It has been revealed to me that there is a spititual Israel. And in the book called Genesis, we read in the 28th chapter, about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. and starting at verse 12, that the God of Israel tells Abraham that He will give him the land and to his seed. And then God says that his seed will spread to the west and to the north and to the east and to the south, and in his seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
Lou

 

Lou's reply to Dena-beastoutvthesea-B

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2008, at 10:43:54

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-beastoutvthesea Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2008, at 8:58:01

> > Lou -
> >
> > What is the meaning of the symbolism of the beast rising up out of the sea?
> >
> > Shalom, Dena
>
> Dena,
> You wrote,[...symbolism..beast...sea...].
> When John penned the book called The revelation, I believe that what he penned was intended for at least Jewish people that were versed in their scriptures and so that the symbols used could be understood by them. Then they could speak the meanings of the symbols to those not versed in the scriptures that the Jews used.
> The book says that what is in it is {to the 7 "churches"}. The English word, "church" means {the called out by the God that the Jews worship}. It has been revealed to me that the "7" churches then are symbolic of the {complete} group of the called out by God, 7 being the symbolic number that Jews consider to be meaning to be {complete}. The people in those called out by the God that the Jews worship groups, then have been revealed to me to be all of those people in all ages. This then has been revealed to me to mean that the book is to all those at anytime that are reading it, be it in the time period when John penned it, or anytime after that, being now or 1000000 years from now.
> The book writes that anyone that reads it will be blessed. The book writes that the one that penned it, John, was in Spirit at the time of penning it. It was what was revealed to him by an angel of God. And the book writes that it is to {he that has an ear} to let him hear what {The Spirit} says to {the churches}.
> My friends, it is my deep conviction that anyone that is reading this has an ear to hear and that the hearing will be a spiritual hearing. I base this on what I believe to be that the Word of God is what the God that the Jews worship use to draw all men to Him.
> The Jews had a king, David. He was the king of the nation of Israel. It has been revealed to me that there is a spititual Israel. And in the book called Genesis, we read in the 28th chapter, about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. and starting at verse 12, that the God of Israel tells Abraham that He will give him the land and to his seed. And then God says that his seed will spread to the west and to the north and to the east and to the south, and in his seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
> Lou

Dena,
You asked about the beast that came out of the sea that John penned in the book called The Revelation in chapter 13.In the 12th chapter,the 9th verse, we read,[...And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil, and Satan, which deceives the {whole world}...].
The symbolism here leads me to the book called Genesis in the 3erd chapter as we read,
[...Now the serpent was more subtle than {any beast} of the field which the Lord God had made...]
Then the serpent told Eve that if she ate of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil, that God had told that if they ate of it that they would die, that they would not die. They ate of the fruit of the tree and God confronted them and Eve said,[...The serpent deceived me, and I did eat...].
Then they were banished from the Garden and took with them the nature of man without eating of the tree of life which could have given them the nature of God.
The book called Revelation writes that the serpent has deceived not only Eve, but has deceived the {whole world}.
It has been revealed to me that the beast nature, since the first people left the Garden, is the natural nature of mankind that mankind is born with and that he that overcomes can eat of the tree of life.
It has been revealed to me that the beast nature is without spirit. It is concerned with self and like the serpent, is concerned with deceiving others to not worship God and to have others worship them by making images of themselves as I wrote concerning Nebuchadnezzar and that he made a golden image of himself, 60X6, that if people did not worship his image, he would have them killed.
It has been revealed to me that man does have a spirit, but it is like a seed and needs to be germinated. For reading in Genesis chapter 2, the 7th verse that God made man out of the dust of the ground and breathed into him the breath of life and man became a living soul. The breath was God's breath (spirit) so that Adam did have God's spirit in him, like a seed, but needed to eat of the tree of life to germinate it, which he did not do. The book called Ecclesiastes, which is generally accepted to be written by Solomon, writes in the 12th chapter, the 7th verse,[...Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God who gave it...].
It has been revealed to me that this nature of man without the spirit of God awakened, is like any other soul. Animals are also living souls, but they did not have God breath into them as Adam did, so lack that spirit in them. This spirit that is in man has ben revealed to me to have man have a conscience of a God that created them, though, and that man can have awarness of a creator. And it has been revealed to me that the spirit is in a struggle with the flesh and spirit and untill the spirit overcomes the flesh, one will walk in the flesh and that the works of the flesh are of the beastly nature that leads to death,and the fruit of the spirit is joy and peace that leads to life.
The beast came out of the {sea}. When I read that I was led to the book called Isaiah, the 57th chapter, from verse 20,[...But the wicked are like a troubled sea, when it can not rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt...].
Lou


 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-beastoutvthesea Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 21, 2008, at 22:12:25

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-beastoutvthesea Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2008, at 8:58:01

Lou -

This is amazing to me... I've been known as a Christian for over 30 years now... since I was 15. I've had many, many teachings about this book, about what it means (most of the teachings conflict with each other, as everyone seems to KNOW what it means, and even whole denominational divisions have occurred over it... so much for "they'll know we're Christians by our love".... sad).

So, you're saying that the way a Jew would understand this book, is that it's symbolic... it's about how to go from one who is "lost" to one who is "found"; from one who is "dead" to one who is "alive"; to be born anew.

This is startling to me, for I was taught this was a book of coming events, the "end times" when a literal "antichrist" (which I now know is not even mentioned in this book) would become a world-leader, and usher in the worship of the Beast, and everyone would have to take on the "mark of the Beast" on their head or their hand, not being able to either buy or sell without it. Then would come the tribulation, with many, many people being killed (unless they take the mark of the Beast), and the overcomers would go to heaven, to be with God. Then, a great battle -- then the Millenniel Reign (with the beast, false prophet and Satan locked up for a while). THen the bad guys get released, and some folks are deceived. And then, the false prophet, the beast, and all those who worshipped the beast, would be thrown into the lake of fire, to burn endlessly, forever and ever with no chance of escape. And those who overcame would live in the New Jerusalem (new heaven and new earth) forever and ever.

That, with a few variations, was what I was taught, as a "Christian", by those who said they knew these things.

And then, God took me out of the institutional church, out of Christianity (which I now believe is a manmade system), and I realized that I was part of His Ekklesia -- the called-out ones. Called out of all things man-made, including that which "calls itself church". I learned that Church is a people to be, not a place to go, or a thing to join. And I learned that I'd been duped about all manner of things... about the system of Christianity, about what the gospel is, about the clergy-laity division, about how women being second-class citizens, and I came to believe that God's plan has always been to reconcile all things, including all people, to Himself. IOW, that He saves everyone. That the power of the atonement extends to ALL, and that all will, one way or another, no matter what it takes, no matter how many firey ordeals, or how long the age of correction/pruning, everyone will come to the end of themselves, having been salted by fire, and SEE Him for who He is, and CHOOSE Him (& there is an order, starting with firstfruits, and continuing) -- thus, every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that He is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. For He is the Savior of ALL, especially those who believe.

So, Lou, are you now telling me, after all this time of sharing your "experience", that the book known as "The Revelation" is not about future events, but about the wooing, delivering, transforming, refining process of what God does within each one's life...?


Wow.

Ok, I have to go back in and read it (I use a more literal translation than what's commonly read). I want to delve into what HE says to each of the 7 assemblies (as my translation puts it).

I want to see what I get out of it, with this particular enlightening... and I'm asking the Holy Spirit to show me what He wants me to see...

Shalom, Dena

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


> Dena,
> You wrote,[...symbolism..beast...sea...].
> When John penned the book called The revelation, I believe that what he penned was intended for at least Jewish people that were versed in their scriptures and so that the symbols used could be understood by them. Then they could speak the meanings of the symbols to those not versed in the scriptures that the Jews used.
> The book says that what is in it is {to the 7 "churches"}. The English word, "church" means {the called out by the God that the Jews worship}. It has been revealed to me that the "7" churches then are symbolic of the {complete} group of the called out by God, 7 being the symbolic number that Jews consider to be meaning to be {complete}. The people in those called out by the God that the Jews worship groups, then have been revealed to me to be all of those people in all ages. This then has been revealed to me to mean that the book is to all those at anytime that are reading it, be it in the time period when John penned it, or anytime after that, being now or 1000000 years from now.
> The book writes that anyone that reads it will be blessed. The book writes that the one that penned it, John, was in Spirit at the time of penning it. It was what was revealed to him by an angel of God. And the book writes that it is to {he that has an ear} to let him hear what {The Spirit} says to {the churches}.
> My friends, it is my deep conviction that anyone that is reading this has an ear to hear and that the hearing will be a spiritual hearing. I base this on what I believe to be that the Word of God is what the God that the Jews worship use to draw all men to Him.
> The Jews had a king, David. He was the king of the nation of Israel. It has been revealed to me that there is a spititual Israel. And in the book called Genesis, we read in the 28th chapter, about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. and starting at verse 12, that the God of Israel tells Abraham that He will give him the land and to his seed. And then God says that his seed will spread to the west and to the north and to the east and to the south, and in his seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
> Lou
>
>

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-beastoutvthesea-B Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 21, 2008, at 22:14:35

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-beastoutvthesea-B, posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2008, at 10:43:54

Wow, so the beast is the old nature -- that which rules us until we are redeemed... and that which we continue to battle to overcome 'til the first death.

Wow, it's "just" the old flesh vs. spirit struggle... wow!

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-beastoutvthesea-B Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 21, 2008, at 22:42:44

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-beastoutvthesea-B, posted by Lou Pilder on February 21, 2008, at 10:43:54

Ok, Lou (wondering, is it just you and me here, or is anyone else reading along?).

I just did a search of the beginning of Revelation, to see what was said by (I call Him Jesus, and I know you don't... do you refer to Him as Y'Shua, or just The Rider?). I'll call Him the Annointed One (interesting that AO also stands for Alpha and Omega!).

Lou - first, is there any significance to how all the assemblies are located in Asia (which is now Turkey)?

1. Ephesos. The AO affirms them for their hard work, endurance, how they've exposed false envoys, and have not grown weary. But, He chastises them for letting go of the Agape Feasts, and calls them to repent. He commends them for hating the Nicolaitians, even as He does (note: I've come to believe that Nicolaitians are those who promote the practice of the clergy/laity divide... "over the laity").

He tells them "to the one who is victorious they shal eat from the Tree of Life."


2. Smyrna (a wealthy port city). They are oppressed and financially wealthy. Some who claim to be Jews, but who are really a "synagogue of Adversary" will torment them for 10 days; but they are to be faithful to the death, and will receive a winner's crown.

He tells them that the one who is victorious will not be harmed by the second death (Lou, is that a reference to the lake of fire?)


3. Pergamon (a center of administration). Adversary's throne is among them; but they did not renounce faith during the martyrdom of Antipas. Some there worship Balaam; some follow the teachings of the Nicolaitians. They're told to repent.

He tells them that the victorious will receive hidden manna and a white stone with a new name.


4. Thyatira (a crossroads of commercial routes, and a fertile valley). They demonstrate love, faith, mnistry, enurance - they are doing more than they did at first. But, they tolerate Jezebel (symbolizing idoloty and adultery). He will "strike her offspring dead" (Lou, what does her "offspring" represent?). He searches the hearts and minds, and will repay each one for their deeds (Judgement Day?). Those who see truth hold on.

He tells them that those who conquer and do His work will have authority over all the nations, the same authority that His Father gave Him -- they will also receive the morning star. (My take: is this referring to the Millenniel Reign? With those who receive age-abiding life reigning over those who undergo age-abiding correction? And, what is the morning star?)


5. Sardis (gold refineries, and purple dye). They have a reputation of being alive, and yet are really dead. HE tells them to get back to their foundation - what remains is close to death. In God's sight, their actions are incomplete. Hold fast, and repent. A few in Sardis are worthy, and wearing white.

He tells them that the one who conquers will wear white and not be blotted out of the Book of Life.


6. Philadelphia (on a trade route). There is an open door in front of them, which will never be shut. They have small power; they hold firmly to the Word, and have not denied His Name. The false followers will be prostrate before them, knowing that God has loved them. They wil be spared the season of tribulation, and the ordeal (Lou, would this be referencing the age-abiding correction of the Millennium, and later the lake of fire?).

He tells them that the victorious will be a pillar in the temple of God, and will have a new name.


7. Laodicea (a banking center) They are neither hot nor cold, but lukewarm, and will be vomitted out of His mouth. They claim, "I am rich and need nothing", but He says they are pitied, wretched, poor, naked and blind. He tells them to buy refined gold (which I've learned is the only thing of value on the planet that does not decay or corrupt), white clothing to cover their nakedness, and eye salve, so they can see.

He says (& this touches me deeply!), "I indeed rebuke and educate those I love. Be quick to change your minds. I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and we will eat together."

He tells them that the one who has the victory, He will give the right to sit with Him on His throne.

That's my quick study of what the Annointed One says to the 7 assemblies... which you've said represent all of us, for all time.

Lou -- are there 7 categories of people, or do we all tend to go through 7 stages...?

I'd like to hear anything you have to say about all of this...my insights, my questions, etc. If I need something "tweaked", or if I'm way off, please tell me how you see this.

I'm finding this fascinating!

Shalom, Dena


"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."

 

Lou's reply to Dena-rsist Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 22, 2008, at 9:59:54

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-beastoutvthesea Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 21, 2008, at 22:12:25

> Lou -
>
> This is amazing to me... I've been known as a Christian for over 30 years now... since I was 15. I've had many, many teachings about this book, about what it means (most of the teachings conflict with each other, as everyone seems to KNOW what it means, and even whole denominational divisions have occurred over it... so much for "they'll know we're Christians by our love".... sad).
>
> So, you're saying that the way a Jew would understand this book, is that it's symbolic... it's about how to go from one who is "lost" to one who is "found"; from one who is "dead" to one who is "alive"; to be born anew.
>
> This is startling to me, for I was taught this was a book of coming events, the "end times" when a literal "antichrist" (which I now know is not even mentioned in this book) would become a world-leader, and usher in the worship of the Beast, and everyone would have to take on the "mark of the Beast" on their head or their hand, not being able to either buy or sell without it. Then would come the tribulation, with many, many people being killed (unless they take the mark of the Beast), and the overcomers would go to heaven, to be with God. Then, a great battle -- then the Millenniel Reign (with the beast, false prophet and Satan locked up for a while). THen the bad guys get released, and some folks are deceived. And then, the false prophet, the beast, and all those who worshipped the beast, would be thrown into the lake of fire, to burn endlessly, forever and ever with no chance of escape. And those who overcame would live in the New Jerusalem (new heaven and new earth) forever and ever.
>
> That, with a few variations, was what I was taught, as a "Christian", by those who said they knew these things.
>
> And then, God took me out of the institutional church, out of Christianity (which I now believe is a manmade system), and I realized that I was part of His Ekklesia -- the called-out ones. Called out of all things man-made, including that which "calls itself church". I learned that Church is a people to be, not a place to go, or a thing to join. And I learned that I'd been duped about all manner of things... about the system of Christianity, about what the gospel is, about the clergy-laity division, about how women being second-class citizens, and I came to believe that God's plan has always been to reconcile all things, including all people, to Himself. IOW, that He saves everyone. That the power of the atonement extends to ALL, and that all will, one way or another, no matter what it takes, no matter how many firey ordeals, or how long the age of correction/pruning, everyone will come to the end of themselves, having been salted by fire, and SEE Him for who He is, and CHOOSE Him (& there is an order, starting with firstfruits, and continuing) -- thus, every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that He is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. For He is the Savior of ALL, especially those who believe.
>
> So, Lou, are you now telling me, after all this time of sharing your "experience", that the book known as "The Revelation" is not about future events, but about the wooing, delivering, transforming, refining process of what God does within each one's life...?
>
>
> Wow.
>
> Ok, I have to go back in and read it (I use a more literal translation than what's commonly read). I want to delve into what HE says to each of the 7 assemblies (as my translation puts it).
>
> I want to see what I get out of it, with this particular enlightening... and I'm asking the Holy Spirit to show me what He wants me to see...
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> > Dena,
> > You wrote,[...symbolism..beast...sea...].
> > When John penned the book called The revelation, I believe that what he penned was intended for at least Jewish people that were versed in their scriptures and so that the symbols used could be understood by them. Then they could speak the meanings of the symbols to those not versed in the scriptures that the Jews used.
> > The book says that what is in it is {to the 7 "churches"}. The English word, "church" means {the called out by the God that the Jews worship}. It has been revealed to me that the "7" churches then are symbolic of the {complete} group of the called out by God, 7 being the symbolic number that Jews consider to be meaning to be {complete}. The people in those called out by the God that the Jews worship groups, then have been revealed to me to be all of those people in all ages. This then has been revealed to me to mean that the book is to all those at anytime that are reading it, be it in the time period when John penned it, or anytime after that, being now or 1000000 years from now.
> > The book writes that anyone that reads it will be blessed. The book writes that the one that penned it, John, was in Spirit at the time of penning it. It was what was revealed to him by an angel of God. And the book writes that it is to {he that has an ear} to let him hear what {The Spirit} says to {the churches}.
> > My friends, it is my deep conviction that anyone that is reading this has an ear to hear and that the hearing will be a spiritual hearing. I base this on what I believe to be that the Word of God is what the God that the Jews worship use to draw all men to Him.
> > The Jews had a king, David. He was the king of the nation of Israel. It has been revealed to me that there is a spititual Israel. And in the book called Genesis, we read in the 28th chapter, about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. and starting at verse 12, that the God of Israel tells Abraham that He will give him the land and to his seed. And then God says that his seed will spread to the west and to the north and to the east and to the south, and in his seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
> > Lou
Dena,
You wrote,[...it is symbolic...lost to found...dead to alive...born anew...mark of the beast on their head..hand...the Lake of Fire...].
The book is a book of symbols and the book states that. Some of the symbols are defined in the book and others are those that I think a Jew that was versed in their scriptures could understand.
The symbols in the first book of the scriptures that the Jews use are related to the symbols in the book called The Revelation. The first book called Genesis, tells of man's creation and also other created beings. One is the serpent that appears in the book called The Revelation. After Eve said that the serpent deceived her, we go on in that chapter, 3, to read that in verse 14 God says to the serpent that [...dust shall you eat all the days of your life...].
Now the serpent is a symbol, for serpents can not talk. And Eve did not have a conversation with a snake, for the scene is symbolic for a reason. But that God said to the serpent that he would eat dust all the days of his life from then on is also symbolic because snakes could not survive on dust only. You see, the dust is also a symbol. Fot in the 19th verse of this book we read as God is talking to Adam,[...you shall eat bread, untill you return to the ground; for out of it were you taken: for dust you are and into dust shall you return...].
Now the serpent will eat {dust}. Man is {dust}. The serpent will substain himself then on man. It has been revealed to me that he will mainly seek the mind of men to live on.
And Adam will eat bread. Bread is a symbol which I will explain soon. But the scene now is that the serpent is seeking to live by eating {dust}. It has been revealed to me that this now is something that man will need to {overcome}. For if the serpent is seeking to enter man's mind to survive {by deceiving} as the serpent deceived Eve, then man has an enemy in his mind and the book called The Revelation says that the serpent has deceived the whole world. It has been revealed to me that the book called The Revelation shows in symbols how the serpent has controlled the minds of the whole world and how one can Overcome the serpent, which is the devil, Satan. It has been revealed to me as Adam and Eve were in The Paradise of God and were deceived by the serpent in the beginning, and ate of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil, and were kept from eating of the Tree of Life, so shall he that overcomes then eat of the Tree of Life, which is in The Paradise of God.
Lou

 

Lou's reply to Dena-7churches Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 22, 2008, at 17:41:31

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-beastoutvthesea-B Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 21, 2008, at 22:42:44

> Ok, Lou (wondering, is it just you and me here, or is anyone else reading along?).
>
> I just did a search of the beginning of Revelation, to see what was said by (I call Him Jesus, and I know you don't... do you refer to Him as Y'Shua, or just The Rider?). I'll call Him the Annointed One (interesting that AO also stands for Alpha and Omega!).
>
> Lou - first, is there any significance to how all the assemblies are located in Asia (which is now Turkey)?
>
> 1. Ephesos. The AO affirms them for their hard work, endurance, how they've exposed false envoys, and have not grown weary. But, He chastises them for letting go of the Agape Feasts, and calls them to repent. He commends them for hating the Nicolaitians, even as He does (note: I've come to believe that Nicolaitians are those who promote the practice of the clergy/laity divide... "over the laity").
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> He tells them "to the one who is victorious they shal eat from the Tree of Life."
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>
> 2. Smyrna (a wealthy port city). They are oppressed and financially wealthy. Some who claim to be Jews, but who are really a "synagogue of Adversary" will torment them for 10 days; but they are to be faithful to the death, and will receive a winner's crown.
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> He tells them that the one who is victorious will not be harmed by the second death (Lou, is that a reference to the lake of fire?)
>
>
> 3. Pergamon (a center of administration). Adversary's throne is among them; but they did not renounce faith during the martyrdom of Antipas. Some there worship Balaam; some follow the teachings of the Nicolaitians. They're told to repent.
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> He tells them that the victorious will receive hidden manna and a white stone with a new name.
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> 4. Thyatira (a crossroads of commercial routes, and a fertile valley). They demonstrate love, faith, mnistry, enurance - they are doing more than they did at first. But, they tolerate Jezebel (symbolizing idoloty and adultery). He will "strike her offspring dead" (Lou, what does her "offspring" represent?). He searches the hearts and minds, and will repay each one for their deeds (Judgement Day?). Those who see truth hold on.
>
> He tells them that those who conquer and do His work will have authority over all the nations, the same authority that His Father gave Him -- they will also receive the morning star. (My take: is this referring to the Millenniel Reign? With those who receive age-abiding life reigning over those who undergo age-abiding correction? And, what is the morning star?)
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> 5. Sardis (gold refineries, and purple dye). They have a reputation of being alive, and yet are really dead. HE tells them to get back to their foundation - what remains is close to death. In God's sight, their actions are incomplete. Hold fast, and repent. A few in Sardis are worthy, and wearing white.
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> He tells them that the one who conquers will wear white and not be blotted out of the Book of Life.
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>
> 6. Philadelphia (on a trade route). There is an open door in front of them, which will never be shut. They have small power; they hold firmly to the Word, and have not denied His Name. The false followers will be prostrate before them, knowing that God has loved them. They wil be spared the season of tribulation, and the ordeal (Lou, would this be referencing the age-abiding correction of the Millennium, and later the lake of fire?).
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> He tells them that the victorious will be a pillar in the temple of God, and will have a new name.
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>
> 7. Laodicea (a banking center) They are neither hot nor cold, but lukewarm, and will be vomitted out of His mouth. They claim, "I am rich and need nothing", but He says they are pitied, wretched, poor, naked and blind. He tells them to buy refined gold (which I've learned is the only thing of value on the planet that does not decay or corrupt), white clothing to cover their nakedness, and eye salve, so they can see.
>
> He says (& this touches me deeply!), "I indeed rebuke and educate those I love. Be quick to change your minds. I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and we will eat together."
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> He tells them that the one who has the victory, He will give the right to sit with Him on His throne.
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> That's my quick study of what the Annointed One says to the 7 assemblies... which you've said represent all of us, for all time.
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> Lou -- are there 7 categories of people, or do we all tend to go through 7 stages...?
>
> I'd like to hear anything you have to say about all of this...my insights, my questions, etc. If I need something "tweaked", or if I'm way off, please tell me how you see this.
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> I'm finding this fascinating!
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
>
> "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."

Dena,
YOu wrote about the 7 churches in Asia. What has been revealed to me is that the 7 churches are a symbol of the complete people that are at any time called out by God.
Let us reason together. If one church can eat of the tree of life if they overcome and another can eat of the hidden manna, does that mean that the one that could eat of the tree of life could not eat of the hidden manna?
And does it not say that this is the message to the churCHES? All the churches?
And could there not have been congregations in places other then Aisa, such as in the Judean region? Or Rome?
And where are those cities now? In ruins? If so, and if the book is only to those cities, then is the book to the Collossians or the book to the Romans only to those cities?
It has been revealed to me that if one at anytime reads the book they will receive a blessing and it has been revealed to me that the 7 churches are still here for they are representative of all peoples today, yesterday and tomorrow.
Lou


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