Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 799425

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Re: Lou's reply to Dena-frmbndge Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 6, 2008, at 14:09:40

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-frmbndge, posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2008, at 15:46:23

Hey Lou -

Of course this seems indicative of the army of the Egyptians, and the chariots, and how the Red Sea covered them, after Moses led the Israelites to the other side, and safety.

What's next, Lou?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-brdvlf Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2008, at 13:00:12

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-frmbndge Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 6, 2008, at 14:09:40

> Hey Lou -
>
> Of course this seems indicative of the army of the Egyptians, and the chariots, and how the Red Sea covered them, after Moses led the Israelites to the other side, and safety.
>
> What's next, Lou?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...what is next..].
It was a frightening experiance to see the 600 swept out into the sea. The dark clouds lifted and I was alone and lost I could see a vast plain way off and it looked like there was some smoke arising from a city.
Then the Rider appeared. I asked Him what that was all about and He said to me, "Remember this day that you were brought out from those that wanted to put you in bondage, by the strengh of {My Hand}, for it shall be a sign to you on {your hand and between your eyes}."
I asked, "Is there any way out of here?" The Rider said to me," Go to that great plain afar off. I will turn the bitter waters sweet for you and heaven will have bread rain down for you. And Whoever asks you as to how you got there, tell them I Am sent you."
Lou

 

Lou's reply to Dena-scndth

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2008, at 14:00:26

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-brdvlf Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2008, at 13:00:12

> > Hey Lou -
> >
> > Of course this seems indicative of the army of the Egyptians, and the chariots, and how the Red Sea covered them, after Moses led the Israelites to the other side, and safety.
> >
> > What's next, Lou?
> >
> > Shalom, Dena
>
> Dena,
> You wrote,[...what is next..].
> It was a frightening experiance to see the 600 swept out into the sea. The dark clouds lifted and I was alone and lost I could see a vast plain way off and it looked like there was some smoke arising from a city.
> Then the Rider appeared. I asked Him what that was all about and He said to me, "Remember this day that you were brought out from those that wanted to put you in bondage, by the strengh of {My Hand}, for it shall be a sign to you on {your hand and between your eyes}."
> I asked, "Is there any way out of here?" The Rider said to me," Go to that great plain afar off. I will turn the bitter waters sweet for you and heaven will have bread rain down for you. And Whoever asks you as to how you got there, tell them I Am sent you."
> Lou

Dena,
I came to a great city. Immediatly I was surrounded by men that took me to a great statue made of gold. I was told that it was a statue of their king and that it was in terms of their measurments, 60 tall by 6 in width. Then I heard from a booming speaker loud music and a voice saying, " It is commanded that all people at the time that they hear this music shall fall down and worship the gold image that the King has set up; and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace."
Then three mwn were brought before the king. One said that they did not fall down and worship the gold image when they heard the music because they do not worship idols. The king was furious. He orderd a furnace to be turned up 7 times its heat and to throw the men in. The furnace became so hot that the men stoking it caught fire and burned to death.
The three men were cast into the firery furnace bound. Then the king went to the furnace and looked in and behold, the men were walking in the midst of the fire and unharmed. The king turned around and said that there is a forth man not hurt by the flame. And He is Ridng a White Horse.
Then the king yelled for the three men to come out, but the Rider and horse did not. The king said," Who is this God of yours that has allowed you to be unharmed by this Lake of Fire?"
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-scndth Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 8, 2008, at 17:10:59

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-scndth, posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2008, at 14:00:26

Lou -

I'm familiar with that account - from the book of Daniel (which I believe to be partly history, and partly prophecy). Interestingly, I was reading about this very passage, in my friend's book (The Parable of Gold), just this morning...!

But I'm curious -- the book of Daniel doesn't describe the furnace as a "Lake of Fire"... can you elaborate on how you made this connection with the Lake of Fire mentioned in Revelation?

Thanks -

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-Lkof Fire Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 8, 2008, at 21:27:25

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-scndth Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 8, 2008, at 17:10:59

> Lou -
>
> I'm familiar with that account - from the book of Daniel (which I believe to be partly history, and partly prophecy). Interestingly, I was reading about this very passage, in my friend's book (The Parable of Gold), just this morning...!
>
> But I'm curious -- the book of Daniel doesn't describe the furnace as a "Lake of Fire"... can you elaborate on how you made this connection with the Lake of Fire mentioned in Revelation?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
We have been discussing the book called revelation and that it is a book of symbols. The one that penned the book, John, was a Jew and I think that his readers could also be Jews and non Jews, and I think that the book could be understood by Jews that were versed in their scriptures. As a Jew, I can relate to the symbols in the book and they are even revealed to me.
So this Lake of Fire is written in many places in the book called revelation and the Lake of fire as a symbol then could be known to the Jewish reader.
But we have also been discussing the beast that came out of the sea and 666 and idols of the heart and Solomon's Temple and that the body is the Temple of God made of stone, a mansion. These are all related in the book and revealed in the scriptures of the Jews.
We have talked about the house built on sand that fell and a house built of wood will burn and fall. And I will be talking about that fire and wood and the Lake of Fire.
In Revelation 20 verse 14 it reads,[...And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death...].And we can read in chapter 2 verse 11,[...He that overcomes will not be hurt of the second death...]
In the part in Danial that you are reading, I think it talks about the king's image, Nebuchadnezzar, in gold. And those that would not bow down to the image and worship it such as Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego were cast into the fiery furnace. But they were not hurt by the fire. They were overcomers and their faith was tried by fire. Their house was not built of wood. Their house was The Temple of God, stone. And in the Father's house there are many mansions.
In the book called Isiah chapter 43 verse 2, we read,[....When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow you, when you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned neither shall the flame kindle upon you...]. There is much more to this....
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-Lkof Fire Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 8, 2008, at 23:47:03

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-Lkof Fire Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 8, 2008, at 21:27:25

It's fascinating to me Lou, how you link so many seemingly incongruent parts of Scripture. As a non-Jewish believer (taught through traditional, institutional Christianity), these parts were each a separate "portion" ... and not explained in a way that connected the parts into a whole (which, I realize is western-influenced understanding at work). I also recognize that the Bible was written to an eastern people, in an eastern part of the world -- and that the eastern focus is more wholistic -- so there would be more of an awareness of integration...

Anyway, I find it fascinating to see it starting to come together in my own mind... what's the "more to come", Lou?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-duece Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2008, at 20:37:16

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-Lkof Fire Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 8, 2008, at 23:47:03

> It's fascinating to me Lou, how you link so many seemingly incongruent parts of Scripture. As a non-Jewish believer (taught through traditional, institutional Christianity), these parts were each a separate "portion" ... and not explained in a way that connected the parts into a whole (which, I realize is western-influenced understanding at work). I also recognize that the Bible was written to an eastern people, in an eastern part of the world -- and that the eastern focus is more wholistic -- so there would be more of an awareness of integration...
>
> Anyway, I find it fascinating to see it starting to come together in my own mind... what's the "more to come", Lou?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...in my own mind...].
The book called Revelation is about the mind. It is about two minds. It is about two masters. It is about two walks. It is about two roads. It is about two Gates. It is about two desires.
What are these two minds? What are the two masters? How are the two minds controlled by the two masters? The book called Revelation writes about the ways that the masters control the two minds. One mind is led to death and many entertain that mind. And the other mind is led to life and few find it.
The book called Revelation connects the symbols in scripture and reveals that to be carnally minded is death. And to be spitually minded is life and peace. And the member here asked about 666. I am answering that question.
For we have seen Solomon and his wealth. We have seen Pharaoh's army of 600 chariots. We have seen the giant image of gold of Nebuchadnezzar that was 60X6.
The world still has those that want to make a statue of themselves while they are alive. The book called Revelation is for any peoples to read while there is an idol of gold in their heart. This could be now, the time before now, and the time after now. Opening up the book now is the same as when John penned it and will be the same tomorrow. For the beast that comes out of the sea was seen by John. It was seen by me and it can be seen now by anyone. The people with the golden idols have all the bread that they want to eat. when I was lost on the sand and went to the city on the great plain and saw the statue, heaven rained down bread to me to keep me alive. The rider said that it was a sign to me.
I went back to the shore. I was hungry. The Rider was there to meet me. He said to me,"You saw the king and his idol of gold. You saw that he wanted power and the things that wealth can obtain and to have others bow down to him and he could not allow one to refuse so he killed those. He had all the bread that he wanted. But man shall not live by bread alone." "You had bread rain down from heaven and your fathers ate that same bread and died. There is a bread that comes down from heaven that a man may eat that he may live forever. Moses gave your fathers bread from heaven but my Father will give you bread from heaven that will give life to the world."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-duece Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 12, 2008, at 23:07:23

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-duece Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2008, at 20:37:16

Sorry for the delay, Lou...

So, are you saying that it's an attitude of the heart, whether I'm trusting in the One who gives Life Bread, or in an idol (represented by a Great Beast, seeking to devour...)?

Are you saying that there is no time coming (end time), in which people will receive a "mark" with which to buy and sell, and thus "sell themselves" over to the Beast, with those who refuse to do so receiving tribulation?

That it's all figurative, and indicative of a spiritual condition...?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-trevlif Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 13, 2008, at 12:43:17

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-duece Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 12, 2008, at 23:07:23

> Sorry for the delay, Lou...
>
> So, are you saying that it's an attitude of the heart, whether I'm trusting in the One who gives Life Bread, or in an idol (represented by a Great Beast, seeking to devour...)?
>
> Are you saying that there is no time coming (end time), in which people will receive a "mark" with which to buy and sell, and thus "sell themselves" over to the Beast, with those who refuse to do so receiving tribulation?
>
> That it's all figurative, and indicative of a spiritual condition...?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote.[...attitude of the heart...trusting...The Bread of Life...idol...the mark...spiritual condition...end time...tribulation...]
The symbols in the book called Revelation have been revealed to me and they come from the scriptures that the Jews use. The book in it's entirety has an overiding message that I see in the book.
I see that one aspect of the overiding message is that man has been expelled from The Tree of Life. This is in the book called Genesis. In The Garden, man had a personal relationship with God and dwelled together. Then God drove man out of The Garden and we read in the third chapter verses 22 on;
[...Then God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the Tree of Life, and eat, and live forever"
Then God sent him out of the Garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubin at the east of the garden of Eden and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to The Tree of Life."...].
The Tree of Life is found in the book called Revelation and the cherubin guard the way back.
The book called revelation is a Great Guide to lead one back to The Tree of Life. The book describes an Overcomming. The Overcomming leads one to the Tree of Life and a place where one can dwell with God and the cherubin open the Gate to The Father's House.
The book tells of the nearness to The Gate that the cherubins guard. That Gate is near, it is At Hand.
The book tells of a bongage. It tells of idols of the heart and kingdoms that comtroll us and become destroyed. And the book tells of a Kingdom that will never be destroyed, a Kingdom within us.
And those that read the book called Revelation are promised a blessing. And the book tells that there will be great tribulation on the jouney back to The Tree of Life which is in the midst of Paradise of God.
As I stood on the shore with the Rider, I was experianceing great tribulation. I asked the Rider, "How long will be the suffering?" The Rider said to me, "Fear none of those things which you shall suffer, that you may be tested. Be faithfull until death and I will give you The Crown of Life."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-trevlif Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 13, 2008, at 12:58:58

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-trevlif Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 13, 2008, at 12:43:17

So, the book of Revelation is a symbolic description of how I begin my journey, locked out of the Garden, unable to get to the Tree of Life, now burdened with knowing good and evil (& therefore trusting in my own fallible wisdom, which leads to destruction), and that there will be trials and testings in my life, designed to bring me to the end of my bondage to idolotry, designed to show me how to become an Overcomer, to enter the Kingdom which is at hand, and to be led back to the Tree of Life -- that this is a journey, frought with tribulation, which I will be shown how (& enabled) to overcome.

Am I describing it as you see it? Am I missing something?

What else are you wanting to show...?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-hidnmna Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2008, at 20:17:19

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-trevlif Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 13, 2008, at 12:58:58

> So, the book of Revelation is a symbolic description of how I begin my journey, locked out of the Garden, unable to get to the Tree of Life, now burdened with knowing good and evil (& therefore trusting in my own fallible wisdom, which leads to destruction), and that there will be trials and testings in my life, designed to bring me to the end of my bondage to idolotry, designed to show me how to become an Overcomer, to enter the Kingdom which is at hand, and to be led back to the Tree of Life -- that this is a journey, frought with tribulation, which I will be shown how (& enabled) to overcome.
>
> Am I describing it as you see it? Am I missing something?
>
> What else are you wanting to show...?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...led back to The Tree of Life...]
When Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden, they could not go back to eat of the Tree of Life for it was guarded by cherubin. The children of Israel that were delivered from bondage were given manna from heaven to eat. They ate of that bread and died. That bread was picked up each day. If that bread was left to the next day, it corrupted with worms and would stink.
As we can read in the book called the revelation, in chapter 2 verse 17;
[...To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the hidden manna...]
This symbol could be well known to the Jews that were versed in their scriptures. The symbol could be from the book called Jeremiah the 15th chapter, the 16th verse which reads;[...Your words were found and I did eat them and your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart...] The children of Israel ate the manna from heaven and died. That manna was physical manna. It is my conviction that the hidden manna, is a spiritual manna that is The Word of God. When one eats of the hidden manna, a Jew could see this symbol as bringing in to their being spiritual life. For the bible defines the carnal (physical) mind as death, and the spiritual mind as life and peace which gives joy.
It has been revealed to me that the overcommers will eat of the hidden manna. This manna will give revelation that is hidden about the uncorruptable life. The overcommers can be transformed in their minds from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind by the Bread of Life, the hidden manna, the Word of God, our Daily Bread, the bread that came down from heaven that gives life to the world.
Lou

Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-hidnmna Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 14, 2008, at 23:07:04

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-hidnmna Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2008, at 20:17:19

Lou -

We keep coming back to the overcomers ... can anyone be an overcomer? How does one overcome? What is needed to be overcome?

What is the connection between the overcomers and the Bread of Life, Word of God, who brings life to the world?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-chldnvgd Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 15, 2008, at 11:38:28

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-hidnmna Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 14, 2008, at 23:07:04

> Lou -
>
> We keep coming back to the overcomers ... can anyone be an overcomer? How does one overcome? What is needed to be overcome?
>
> What is the connection between the overcomers and the Bread of Life, Word of God, who brings life to the world?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...overcomers...what is needed...the connection...].
The book called revelation ends with those that overcome being with God and eating of the Tree of Life. The scriptures that the Jews use start out with God making man in his image and being banished from the garden so that he can not eat of the Tree of Life but did eat of the Tree of the knowlege of good and evil.
Man left the Garden with a nature. It is that nature of man, the nature without eating of the Tree of Life, that is part of what is involved in overcoming. In the 3erd chapter of the book called revelation in the 21st verse we read;
[...To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne; even as I also overcame and am set down with my Father in His throne...].
And in the 2end chapter, the 17th verse, we read,[...To him that overcomes will I give ...{a new name}...known only to those that receive it...].
A new name. Not the name of man. In our nature without eating of the Tree of Life, we have a nature that Jews could be led to understanding in reading their scriptures. In the book called Jeremiah, the 17th chapter, the 7th verse we read,[...Blessed is the man that trusts in the Lord and whose hope the Lord is.
For he shall be as a {tree} planted by the waters and that spreads out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat comes, but her leaf shall be green: and shall not be carful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit...].
As I read the passages from that book, I go on and in the next verse it reads,[..The heart is deceitful above all, and desperatly wicked: who can know it?...]
As a Jew reading John's penned verses, the symbols stand out to me as the hidden manna, the secrets of God that can be revealed to those that seek Him and choose life. This thread was initiated by a member here asking if the bible talked about suicide. I have been answering that question. For as we go on, it has been revealed to me that there is a nature of man that he brought with him after being expelled from the garden and it is that nature that I see as what is part of what is involved in overcoming. For in the book called Jeremiah, in the 31st chapter, the 31st verse we read, and it is my conviction that the following verses are in relation to overcoming,[...Behold the days come, says the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with The House of Israel...not like the one that was made with the fathers when they were led out of bondage in Egypt, but a covenant where I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God and they shall be my people."...]
It has been revealed to me that The Tree of Life has the fruit that if one eats of it, they are released from bondage. Adam had a nature of bondage, for he was kept from eating from the Tree of Life. But one can eat of the Tree of Life now. For bread has come down from heaven. The secrets of God can be revealed, the hidden manna. We can eat of the hidden manna. We eat of the hidden manna by presenting ourselves as a living sacrifice by not being conformed to the nature that we have from not eating of the Tree of Life.
Then there is the world, and it has been revealed to me that we can overcome by not being conformed to the world that has made images that men are forced to bow down to or be killed.
Then there are powers in high places governed by the {prince} of those powers (let him that is reading understand) that we wrestle with. It has been revealed to me that if we resist those powers, they will flee from you.
It has been revealed to me that we can overcome if we abhor that which is evil and cleave to that which is good; and not to be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good.
As I stood on the sand of the shore with the Rider, I asked what is the first thing I could do to overcome. The Rider said to me, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them that despitefully use you, and persecute you. That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-chldnvgd Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 16, 2008, at 2:26:59

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-chldnvgd Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 15, 2008, at 11:38:28

Lou -

So then, how does one eat from the Tree of Life, in order to be released from bondage?

What more do you have to show us, from what you experienced?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-grtglf Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 16, 2008, at 16:57:45

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-chldnvgd Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 16, 2008, at 2:26:59

> Lou -
>
> So then, how does one eat from the Tree of Life, in order to be released from bondage?
>
> What more do you have to show us, from what you experienced?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...how does one eat of the Tree of Life to be released from bondage?....]
The tree of life was in the midst of the garden and so was the tree of the knowlege of good and evil. When Adam ate of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil, God said that he then became as a God for he now knew good and evil. God then sent him out of the garden so that he would not eat of the tree of life and live forever.
Now man was alive before he ate of the tree of the the knowlege of good and evil so he did not have to eat of the tree of life to have life. He was created from the dust of the ground and became a living soul. A living soul was as a natural being. The tree of life would have given him the life of God and he could live forever. But Adam did not eat of that tree and died, for he did not have God-life. God-life could have been obtained if he ate of the tree of life.
The tree of life could have given Adam a spiritual life that would live forever, wheras the tree of the knowlege of good and evil gave Adam a carnal life, that would die.
I have talked here about The Great Gulf. The Great Gulf that I originally wrote about here was an impassible gulf. It separated the carnal man from the spiritual man. It has been revealed to me that to be carnally minded leads to death, just as Adam died. And it has been revealed to me that to be spiritually minded is life and peace which leads to the life of God, eternal.
The Great Gulf separates two Kingdoms. To eat of the tree of life is to be in the Kingdom of God. The tree of life is available now, to all. One can cross over the Great Gulf. For one has already done so and has told of how the Gate will open to cross over to The Kingdom of God of life, from the kingdom of death.
What one does to open the Gate to the bridge to cross over the Great Gulf has been revealed to me. For when you are in great tribulation and are suffereing from great injustice and people have falsely accused you and said all manner of evil against you, there was one in whose last breath opened the Gate to The Kingdom of God. God accepted His plea for the world to eat of the Tree of Life. And God can honor that same plea when you want to cross over the Great Gulf from death to life.
You may be in the greatest pain of your life. And be shamed and ridiculed and mocked and taunted by others. You may be entraped and used as a scapegoat by others. You may have such hatred toward those that have persecuted you that you want vengance toward them. They may be taking your life away. But the Gate can open, for it has been revealed to me that One has given us the Way to open the Gate. In His last minuets of life He thought that God had forsaken Him. Yet the Gate to heaven opened when He said, "Father, forgive them: for they know not what they do."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-grtglf Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 16, 2008, at 23:04:37

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-grtglf Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 16, 2008, at 16:57:45

Yes, Lou -- I believe that.

I've come to believe that as He was dying, and He prayed to His Father, saying, "forgive them, for they don't know what they're doing," that He was not focused on those who had acted out the execution, nor was He focused on the ones who had pronounced the sentence, nor the ones who desired Him dead (clearly, NONE of them knew what they were doing). I believe He was thinking of ALL of us -- all human beings -- for none of us knows what we're doing, either, and He knows that better than we do. I believe He was choosing to be a "cure" for that which was killing us. And, I dare to believe that His Father did not deny Him in answering that prayer, and that one way or another, no matter what it takes, or how long (firey ordeals, whether in this age or the age to come), that His prayer, and His "cure" will indeed redeem everyone.

I also no longer believe that His Father forsake Him, or separated Himself from Him, as He was dying -- I no longer believe that He leaves us when we do wrong things.

I believe that when I choose to do selfish, or harmful things, that I may FEEL like God has turned away from me (my false perception, due to spiritual darkness at that moment), but that He is still there, with me, understanding, wooing me to Him.

I believe that when the One who is The Way was dying, and took on all the sins of the world, becoming the Cure, He only PERCEIVED that God had forsaken Him, but He was right there, for they cannot be separated.

Likewise, I believe that nothing can separate me from the love of God - nothing.

I believe that He responded to my plea to Him -- as HE will with anyone.

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 15:30:32

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-grtglf Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 16, 2008, at 23:04:37

> Yes, Lou -- I believe that.
>
> I've come to believe that as He was dying, and He prayed to His Father, saying, "forgive them, for they don't know what they're doing," that He was not focused on those who had acted out the execution, nor was He focused on the ones who had pronounced the sentence, nor the ones who desired Him dead (clearly, NONE of them knew what they were doing). I believe He was thinking of ALL of us -- all human beings -- for none of us knows what we're doing, either, and He knows that better than we do. I believe He was choosing to be a "cure" for that which was killing us. And, I dare to believe that His Father did not deny Him in answering that prayer, and that one way or another, no matter what it takes, or how long (firey ordeals, whether in this age or the age to come), that His prayer, and His "cure" will indeed redeem everyone.
>
> I also no longer believe that His Father forsake Him, or separated Himself from Him, as He was dying -- I no longer believe that He leaves us when we do wrong things.
>
> I believe that when I choose to do selfish, or harmful things, that I may FEEL like God has turned away from me (my false perception, due to spiritual darkness at that moment), but that He is still there, with me, understanding, wooing me to Him.
>
> I believe that when the One who is The Way was dying, and took on all the sins of the world, becoming the Cure, He only PERCEIVED that God had forsaken Him, but He was right there, for they cannot be separated.
>
> Likewise, I believe that nothing can separate me from the love of God - nothing.
>
> I believe that He responded to my plea to Him -- as HE will with anyone.
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
>
Dena,
You wrote,[...Yes,...I believe that...a cure for that which is killing us...fiery ordeals...with anyone...].
[...The tree of Life..the heart of man...the kingdom of God...the great gulf...the many mansions...the temple of God...the natural man...the spititual man...the wicked heart...the crown of life...the hidden manna...they know not...].
We have been talking here about what the bible says or desn't say about suicide. We have been talking about the beast that John saw that came out of the sea. We have been talking about that one could eat of the Tree of Life and have God-life, eternal life, a spiritual life and that the natural man's mind is a carnal mind that leads to death and that a spiritual mind leads to life and peace.
There were trees in the garden. And it has been revealed to me that man is symbolic as a tree. As a Jew reading John's penned book the symbol of the tree stands glaringly out at me and I am led to the book called Isaiah, the 61st chapter, verses 1 and on as we read,
[...The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me to declare good tidings to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted and proclaim liberty to the captives...and to comfort all those that mourn.
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called a trees of rightiousness, The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified....].
it has been revealed to me that when I passed over the great gulf that I have been writing about, I found myself in The House of the Lord. All things were new, for I had a new spirit and a new heart. I felt as a mansion in The Father's House.
Man left the garden with a natural heart, for he did not eat of the tree of life that could have given him a spiritual heart. It has been revealed to me that the natural man with a natural heart can not eat of the tree of life, for the tree of life is a spiritual tree. And we can become spiritual beings with a spiritual heart. And we can be born over with a new heart and a new spirit.
And when I passed over the great gulf there was a Rider on a White Horse to meet me. He said to me, "I will give you a new heart, and put a new spirit within you. I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh. I will put my spirit within you. Then you shall dwell in the land that David wrote about, The House of the Lord, and you will be in my family and I will be your God, for in My Father's House, there are many mansions."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 17, 2008, at 17:15:31

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 15:30:32

I was just reading that (in the version I use): "there are many rooms in my Father's household".

What else do you want to show us that was revealed to you, Lou?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-mnymnsns Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 19:03:26

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 17, 2008, at 17:15:31

> I was just reading that (in the version I use): "there are many rooms in my Father's household".
>
> What else do you want to show us that was revealed to you, Lou?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
Here is a link to a mansion that I was in. It is in Ashville, North Carolina, the Biltmore House built by the Vanderbilts in the late 1800s.
It is surrounded by the Blue Ridge Mountians and the gardens are something to see.
I have wondered if Mr. Vanderbilt was attempting to replicate the Garden of Eden or a mansion in The Father's House.
My understanding is that the Temple of Solomon that had God reside in it, being destroyed, gave our body to be the replacement Temple of God.
Lou
http://andyandfrank.com/4%20biltmore%20house.JPG

 

Lou's reply to Dena-gardens

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 20:18:16

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-mnymnsns Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 19:03:26

> > I was just reading that (in the version I use): "there are many rooms in my Father's household".
> >
> > What else do you want to show us that was revealed to you, Lou?
> >
> > Shalom, Dena
>
> Dena,
> Here is a link to a mansion that I was in. It is in Ashville, North Carolina, the Biltmore House built by the Vanderbilts in the late 1800s.
> It is surrounded by the Blue Ridge Mountians and the gardens are something to see.
> I have wondered if Mr. Vanderbilt was attempting to replicate the Garden of Eden or a mansion in The Father's House.
> My understanding is that the Temple of Solomon that had God reside in it, being destroyed, gave our body to be the replacement Temple of God.
> Lou
> http://andyandfrank.com/4%20biltmore%20house.JPG
>
>
Dena,
Here is a link to a photo of the gardens at the Biltmore House.
I spent many hours going through those gardens and I can still see the flowers and smell the aroma. If at any time you are near Ashville, N.C. in the spring or summer, I think that seeing the mansion and the gardens is a worthwhile experiance.
Lou
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2413274680011963314suWGOD

 

Lou's reply to Dena-gardens-B

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 20:49:16

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-gardens, posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 20:18:16

> > > I was just reading that (in the version I use): "there are many rooms in my Father's household".
> > >
> > > What else do you want to show us that was revealed to you, Lou?
> > >
> > > Shalom, Dena
> >
> > Dena,
> > Here is a link to a mansion that I was in. It is in Ashville, North Carolina, the Biltmore House built by the Vanderbilts in the late 1800s.
> > It is surrounded by the Blue Ridge Mountians and the gardens are something to see.
> > I have wondered if Mr. Vanderbilt was attempting to replicate the Garden of Eden or a mansion in The Father's House.
> > My understanding is that the Temple of Solomon that had God reside in it, being destroyed, gave our body to be the replacement Temple of God.
> > Lou
> > http://andyandfrank.com/4%20biltmore%20house.JPG
> >
> >
> Dena,
> Here is a link to a photo of the gardens at the Biltmore House.
> I spent many hours going through those gardens and I can still see the flowers and smell the aroma. If at any time you are near Ashville, N.C. in the spring or summer, I think that seeing the mansion and the gardens is a worthwhile experiance.
> Lou
> http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2413274680011963314suWGOD
>

Dena,
Here is another good link to Asheville and the gardens at the Biltmore house
Loi
http://smokyphotos.com/photo85.htm

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-gardens-B Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 17, 2008, at 21:52:30

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-gardens-B, posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2008, at 20:49:16

I've always been fascinated by the Biltmore house -- I adore Victorian architecture (& I now live in a Victorian house, circa 1900).

Those garden photos are lovely -- are they your photos from your trip? I love the combination of groomed orderliness, and rampant wild colors!

It wouldn't surprise me a bit to discover that many of our attempts to create, to beautify, to build, to plant, to sing, to draw, to express ourselves creatively, aren't just innate expressions of us, who are made in God's image, trying to recapture the innocent beauty and intimacy of the Garden...

It reminds me of the incredible allegory of the Garden in the book, "The Shack" -- have you yet read that book, Lou? It very much fits in with this conversation...

What's next in your experience...?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2008, at 9:30:11

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-gardens-B Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 17, 2008, at 21:52:30

> I've always been fascinated by the Biltmore house -- I adore Victorian architecture (& I now live in a Victorian house, circa 1900).
>
> Those garden photos are lovely -- are they your photos from your trip? I love the combination of groomed orderliness, and rampant wild colors!
>
> It wouldn't surprise me a bit to discover that many of our attempts to create, to beautify, to build, to plant, to sing, to draw, to express ourselves creatively, aren't just innate expressions of us, who are made in God's image, trying to recapture the innocent beauty and intimacy of the Garden...
>
> It reminds me of the incredible allegory of the Garden in the book, "The Shack" -- have you yet read that book, Lou? It very much fits in with this conversation...
>
> What's next in your experience...?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...recapture the...of the Garden...]
When I read the book called The Revelation, reading the 2end chapter the 7th verse;
[...To him that overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life which is in the midst of the Paradise of God...].
As a Jew, I was led to the book called Genesis, the 2end chapter, the 9th verse;
[...and out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil...]. And in the 3erd chapter from the 22end verse;
[...God drove man out of the garden and placed a guard so that Adam could not come back and eat of the tree of life. For if he did eat of that tree, he could become as a God and have God-life, which is eternal life and live forever...]
Here we have in the beginning the tree of life in the garden for the first man that did not eat of it and in the book called the Revelation, man can eat, at last, from the tree of life. The tree of life has the bread that can free one from bondage. The tree of life is available to those that overcome.
I believe that Dr. Martin Luther King jr had in mind the tree of life and that he had been in The Paradise of God. I believe that he ate of the tree of life and his message was for others to eat of that tree to be free. I believe that is what he meant when in his last words in his famous speech he cited;
[..Free at last; free at last. Thank God almighty we are free at last...].
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 19, 2008, at 20:56:48

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2008, at 9:30:11

I see that "the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations"... and that the river of life goes from the throne of God (which is in New Jerusalem), and flows out of the city...

... it echoes the river of life mentioned in Ezekiel, which brings life to everything it touches, except for the salt marshes (and salt is a preservative -- and we are salted by fire).

I see that the river of life goes past the tree of life, and that outside are all those who cannot yet come in to the City... those who resist Him.

But the gates of the City are open 24/7, and inside, the Spirit and the Bride call out, "Come".

It seems to me that they're beckoning to those outside the City... to taste and see that the Lord is good, to come to believe, to become an overcomer, and to come IN, to LIVE.

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-rivoflif Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 20, 2008, at 10:41:42

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 19, 2008, at 20:56:48

> I see that "the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations"... and that the river of life goes from the throne of God (which is in New Jerusalem), and flows out of the city...
>
> ... it echoes the river of life mentioned in Ezekiel, which brings life to everything it touches, except for the salt marshes (and salt is a preservative -- and we are salted by fire).
>
> I see that the river of life goes past the tree of life, and that outside are all those who cannot yet come in to the City... those who resist Him.
>
> But the gates of the City are open 24/7, and inside, the Spirit and the Bride call out, "Come".
>
> It seems to me that they're beckoning to those outside the City... to taste and see that the Lord is good, to come to believe, to become an overcomer, and to come IN, to LIVE.
>
> Shalom, Dena

DEna,
You wrote,[...the River of Life...Ezekial...the tree of life...those outside...].
In the book called The Revelation, in the 22 chapter we read in verse 1,
[...And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal...]
And in verse 17,
[...And let him that thirsts come and whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely...]
And in the book called Genesis, the 2end chapter from verse 9,
[...The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden...a river went out of Edan to water the garden...]
The river watered the garden and the tree of life. The tree of life was God-life, eternal that could live forever. The water in the river was needed to give the tree of life, God-life. It was a combining of the water, which has been revealed to me to be {God's Spirit}, with the tree. The tree, as it has been revealed to me, was The Word of God. The water, {Spirit}, combined with the {word},the tree, produced eternal life. For it has been revealed to me that in the beginning was the Word. And the Word was God and in Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. And in the book called Ezekial, the 47th chapter the 9th verse reads,
[...And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever the rivers go, will live...]
It has been revealed to me that The River of Life is the Spirit of Life, for when I was on the shore, seeing the beast come out of the sea, the Rider said to me, "I shall be with you a little while longer and then I will go to Him that sent me. You will seek me and not find me, and where I am, you cannot come. And if you believe on The Word of God and thirst for life, out of your heart will flow rivers of living water, for the Spirit of life will be sent to you." And then He said to me, " And everyone that has that thirst and comes to the Waters of Life can drink freely and let the wicked forsake his way return to the Lord,for He will abundantly pardon.
For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
And do not return there,
But water the earth,
And make it bring forth the bud,
That it may give seed to the sower
And bread to the eater,
So shall My word be that goes forth from my mouth.
For you shall go out with joy,
And be led out with peace;
The mountains and the hills
Shall break forth with singing before you,
And all the trees of the field shall clap their hands."
Lou


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[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

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