Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 799425

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Lou's reply to Dena-mndovgd Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2008, at 15:52:33

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-repntnovrcm Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on January 28, 2008, at 21:58:10

> I see that there's a choice.
>
> That repentence can be chosen... that it ushers in the Kingdom of Heaven... that the Tree of Life represents the Rider, and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations...
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...That repentance can be chosen..ushers in the Kingdom of Heaven...]
The verse in Revelation is in chapter 2, verses 5 on that reads,[...Remember..from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works...]
As I read that verse, I asked myself as to repent of what? One could repent of a single thing or a multitude of things, but when I thought of it, there could be an overiding thing to repent of that all the other things could come out of. As a Jew reading what John had penned, I was directed to the book called Isaiah the 26th chapter, the 3erd verse as we read,
[...God will keep a man in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Him, because he trusts in Him...].
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-mndovgd Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on January 29, 2008, at 19:50:24

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-mndovgd Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2008, at 15:52:33

The first works...?

What comes to mind for me is:

- Love God with all of me (heart, soul, strength, mind)

- Love others as myself...

I was reading in a book this morning, about how when Jesus said He was going to prepare a house for me, that it meant a "house" within the heart of God... that I live in the heart of God, and if I choose His gift, He lives in me as well...

And so HE is my first love, and He is my peace, and He is my trust.

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2008, at 20:33:06

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-mndovgd Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on January 29, 2008, at 19:50:24

> The first works...?
>
> What comes to mind for me is:
>
> - Love God with all of me (heart, soul, strength, mind)
>
> - Love others as myself...
>
> I was reading in a book this morning, about how when Jesus said He was going to prepare a house for me, that it meant a "house" within the heart of God... that I live in the heart of God, and if I choose His gift, He lives in me as well...
>
> And so HE is my first love, and He is my peace, and He is my trust.
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...first works?...love God..and others...prepare a house...abide in...]
I can asuradly understand what you wrote. For Solomon's Temple was where God abided. When the Temple was destroyed, we could become the Temples of God for Him to reside in Spiritually. Our bodies then can become the Temples of God's Spirit. I can relate to that. Then if there is an idol of the heart, is there not then that the idol is in the temple?
What was brought to me in reading that verse in Revelation was that in falling I think that our {minds} are changed when we fall, and need to be renewed or exchanged to a new mind. This could then create a new heart and a new spirit and a new person. Old things could pass away and all things could become new.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on January 30, 2008, at 13:07:54

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2008, at 20:33:06

I'm thinking that I was born already "fallen", and thus was in a state in which I made choices out of that fallenness...

I believe that God knew this about me, and loved me enough to want to rescue me from that condition...

I believe that He orchestrated circumstances in my life so that I came to the "end of myself", finally saw that my own efforts couldn't help me to change, and then I saw that He was offering a way of escape for me... and so I chose His offer, and then He came to make me His temple, and is now in my "Holy of Holies" (my heart). Thus my heart is good.

The problem is that my mind is enslaved to the lies that I've long-believed ... and it takes a mind-renewal (replacing one lie with Truth, over time, over a lifetime), in order for me to move more and more into living in the freedom that Truth brings me.

In one sense, I am already a new person, in another sense I am becoming ever-more a new person, and in another sense, I will one day become a finished new person, when I pass through the veil of this life.

Yes, I agree, I am cooperating with the process in which old things have been/are/will be passing away, and all things have been/are/will be made new.

My limited human brain struggles with understanding the "timing" of it, because my current existance is bound by time... however, I see that God exists and functions outside of time, and so is not limited as I am.

Lou -- I hope this didn't distract you from what you were revealing, but perhaps added to what you're saying.


I do strongly agree that when I allow anything to replace my first love (& I believe this is a daily challenge), then I have replaced Him with an idol (for me, this idol can be my own will, my own preferences, and even the "things of God" rather than God Himself... I can replace God with "serving God", or doing good works to "earn relationship" with Him, rather than participating in relationship with Him that He's already given me to enjoy).

Ok, back to you, Lou! What's next?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-agp Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on January 30, 2008, at 16:04:14

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on January 30, 2008, at 13:07:54

> I'm thinking that I was born already "fallen", and thus was in a state in which I made choices out of that fallenness...
>
> I believe that God knew this about me, and loved me enough to want to rescue me from that condition...
>
> I believe that He orchestrated circumstances in my life so that I came to the "end of myself", finally saw that my own efforts couldn't help me to change, and then I saw that He was offering a way of escape for me... and so I chose His offer, and then He came to make me His temple, and is now in my "Holy of Holies" (my heart). Thus my heart is good.
>
> The problem is that my mind is enslaved to the lies that I've long-believed ... and it takes a mind-renewal (replacing one lie with Truth, over time, over a lifetime), in order for me to move more and more into living in the freedom that Truth brings me.
>
> In one sense, I am already a new person, in another sense I am becoming ever-more a new person, and in another sense, I will one day become a finished new person, when I pass through the veil of this life.
>
> Yes, I agree, I am cooperating with the process in which old things have been/are/will be passing away, and all things have been/are/will be made new.
>
> My limited human brain struggles with understanding the "timing" of it, because my current existance is bound by time... however, I see that God exists and functions outside of time, and so is not limited as I am.
>
> Lou -- I hope this didn't distract you from what you were revealing, but perhaps added to what you're saying.
>
>
> I do strongly agree that when I allow anything to replace my first love (& I believe this is a daily challenge), then I have replaced Him with an idol (for me, this idol can be my own will, my own preferences, and even the "things of God" rather than God Himself... I can replace God with "serving God", or doing good works to "earn relationship" with Him, rather than participating in relationship with Him that He's already given me to enjoy).
>
> Ok, back to you, Lou! What's next?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...a way to escape...mind is enslaved...renewing of the mind...the process...God exists outside of time...not distract but added...replaced..with an idol...]
Your reply did add to the discussion in a great way. You brought up what the book called the Revelation writes about in symbols.
The symbols of the book reveal the mind of God in relation to His plan for all humanity and what we are purposed for. You wrote about that God does not exist in time. It has been revealed to me that the book called Revelation is also about that time is {now}, {before now} and {after now}.
You did not divert from the meaning of the symbolism of the book, but made it more clear. The beast that came out of the sea has a name that we are comming to. It does have to do with the mind of man and the mind of God. It has been revealed to me that there are two minds that we can entertain. And you wrote that you were enslaved to {lies} and that renewing your mind was replacing things that you had a long-time standing of acceptance to. But how does one ever overcome what they have accepted for many years?
While I was on that Sand, a Rider on a White Horse was behind me. When I saw the Beast come out of the Sea, there was the discussion concerning the fallen house and that the Rider said to me, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." I asked Him what was to repented of. He turned and said to me, "Lou, the Lord preserves them that love Him; Love is the fulfilling of the law; Out of faith, hope and love, the greatest of those is love. Be not conformed to the world, for one can know what love is. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down his life for his friends."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-agp Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on January 30, 2008, at 23:49:50

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-agp Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on January 30, 2008, at 16:04:14

>> It has been revealed to me that there are two minds that we can entertain. And you wrote that you were enslaved to {lies} and that renewing your mind was replacing things that you had a long-time standing of acceptance to. But how does one ever overcome what they have accepted for many years? <<


That's an excellent question, Lou. I don't believe that I CAN overcome it, at least not by my own power, for I'm deceived by the very lies I've embraced as "truth". I have to have the lies revealed to me by God ... I believe He orchestrates circumstances in my life, so that I'm "triggered" by the various pains in my life (the "firey trials"), which remind me of the old, unresolved things in my life. Then, as I turn to Him, He shows me the lies for what they are -- I then have the choice to ask Him to replace the lies with His Truth, and when He does, I then walk in the freedom that comes with Truth. For the Truth sets me free. (I see that He uses pain, the natural consequences for my lie-based choices, to bring me to my senses.)

I believe that when I see through the eyes of Truth, and have my renewed mind (renewed one lie-for-truth at a time), I am an overcomer. For without the power of the lies (the power of compulsion to rule me), I truly have freedom of choice -- I can choose this day whom I will serve, death or life. I choose life.


> > While I was on that Sand, a Rider on a White Horse was behind me. When I saw the Beast come out of the Sea, there was the discussion concerning the fallen house and that the Rider said to me, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." I asked Him what was to repented of. He turned and said to me, "Lou, the Lord preserves them that love Him; Love is the fulfilling of the law; Out of faith, hope and love, the greatest of those is love. Be not conformed to the world, for one can know what love is. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down his life for his friends."
> Lou
>


I see that as the "standard" of love under the law... the greatest love that one could demonstrate was in laying down one's life for a friend.

But, under grace, I see an even greater love in operation: the laying down of One's life for enemies. For I see that I was God's enemy (in my old, fallen state), and against Him. And yet, while I was still an enemy, He laid down His life for me.

He "upped" the standard of love -- and love is the greatest force in the universe. I see that God IS love. I believe that everything about God (including His justice, His anger, and His wrath) come OUT of that love... I see that His wrath is the strongest form of His mercy. His fierce mercy at work, because of His love. (I've come to believe that He continues to use "firey ordeals", even after death, to bring me to my senses, because of His fierce love.)

I see that He goes to inordinate lengths to draw (which means "drag") me to Himself. I see that I cannot come to Him, unless He drags me. I see that He drags me out of His love.

(hoping, again, that this added to, and did not detract from, your teaching)

Shalom, Dena

"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."

 

Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 2, 2008, at 10:30:19

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-agp Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on January 30, 2008, at 23:49:50

> >> It has been revealed to me that there are two minds that we can entertain. And you wrote that you were enslaved to {lies} and that renewing your mind was replacing things that you had a long-time standing of acceptance to. But how does one ever overcome what they have accepted for many years? <<
>
>
> That's an excellent question, Lou. I don't believe that I CAN overcome it, at least not by my own power, for I'm deceived by the very lies I've embraced as "truth". I have to have the lies revealed to me by God ... I believe He orchestrates circumstances in my life, so that I'm "triggered" by the various pains in my life (the "firey trials"), which remind me of the old, unresolved things in my life. Then, as I turn to Him, He shows me the lies for what they are -- I then have the choice to ask Him to replace the lies with His Truth, and when He does, I then walk in the freedom that comes with Truth. For the Truth sets me free. (I see that He uses pain, the natural consequences for my lie-based choices, to bring me to my senses.)
>
> I believe that when I see through the eyes of Truth, and have my renewed mind (renewed one lie-for-truth at a time), I am an overcomer. For without the power of the lies (the power of compulsion to rule me), I truly have freedom of choice -- I can choose this day whom I will serve, death or life. I choose life.
>
>
> > > While I was on that Sand, a Rider on a White Horse was behind me. When I saw the Beast come out of the Sea, there was the discussion concerning the fallen house and that the Rider said to me, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." I asked Him what was to repented of. He turned and said to me, "Lou, the Lord preserves them that love Him; Love is the fulfilling of the law; Out of faith, hope and love, the greatest of those is love. Be not conformed to the world, for one can know what love is. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down his life for his friends."
> > Lou
> >
>
>
> I see that as the "standard" of love under the law... the greatest love that one could demonstrate was in laying down one's life for a friend.
>
> But, under grace, I see an even greater love in operation: the laying down of One's life for enemies. For I see that I was God's enemy (in my old, fallen state), and against Him. And yet, while I was still an enemy, He laid down His life for me.
>
> He "upped" the standard of love -- and love is the greatest force in the universe. I see that God IS love. I believe that everything about God (including His justice, His anger, and His wrath) come OUT of that love... I see that His wrath is the strongest form of His mercy. His fierce mercy at work, because of His love. (I've come to believe that He continues to use "firey ordeals", even after death, to bring me to my senses, because of His fierce love.)
>
> I see that He goes to inordinate lengths to draw (which means "drag") me to Himself. I see that I cannot come to Him, unless He drags me. I see that He drags me out of His love.
>
> (hoping, again, that this added to, and did not detract from, your teaching)
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
> "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."


Dena,
You wrote,[...excellant question... need revealed to me...replace lies with truth and walk in freedom...hope did not distract...]
You did not distract but enriched the discussion by bringing in the two minds.
I ask, did the replacement in your case;
A. make you free from guilt that was not deseved?
B. make you free from shame that was not deserved?
C. make you free from fear that was not deserved?
If you could respond to those, then I could add some other aspects to this discussion.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 2, 2008, at 23:03:54

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 2, 2008, at 10:30:19

Lou, you wrote:

"Dena,
You wrote,[...excellant question... need revealed to me...replace lies with truth and walk in freedom...hope did not distract...]
You did not distract but enriched the discussion by bringing in the two minds.
I ask, did the replacement in your case;
A. make you free from guilt that was not deseved?
B. make you free from shame that was not deserved?
C. make you free from fear that was not deserved?
If you could respond to those, then I could add some other aspects to this discussion.
Lou"


Hmmm... I can't answer this simply, but I'll attempt to asnwer it nonetheless...

As for what I "deserve"... I don't see that I deserve any of God's mercies, grace, or gifts... in fact, that's why His gifts to me are so amazing -- He wants me to have them, because He loves me, and He shows me that I can't possibly deserve what He gives me freely.

His love is lavish in that regard (in ALL regards!).

I see that I WAS guilty of being His enemy when I came into this life... I see that I felt shame, because of the awareness of that guilt... I see that I was then the slave of fear (which I see as the opposite of love).

I experienced Truth replacing the lies that I believed, as His mercy towards me. He didn't want me enslaved to the lies I believed... He wanted me set free. Free to respond to Him, rather than to react to fear.

I don't suppose my answer is helping...

While I deserved, due to my own rebellion against Him, and my own resistance to Him, the consequences of what I believed, and how I thus reacted, He loved me enough to rescue me from both what I believed, and the consequences of my reactions.

Even while I was resisting Him, He was pursuing me... He left the 99 sheep in the fold, and went after me, the one who was lost ... and He continued to pursue me until I was found.

I've come to believe that love, and not fear, is the most powerful motivation in the universe... but that fear is the most common motivation in effect on this planet.

I'm praying to have fear cast out of my life with perfect love, for fear is about punishment, and I no longer believe that God punishes, except to correct me, and to bring me back into relationship with Himself... so even His anger, and His wrath, is a result of His love for me.

He loves me enough to be wrathful toward that which would destroy me -- including the lies I've believed.

Does that answer you, or give you something to work with in what you're teaching, Lou?

Shalom, Dena


"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."

 

Lou's reply to Dena-feighro Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2008, at 14:58:38

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 2, 2008, at 23:03:54

> Lou, you wrote:
>
> "Dena,
> You wrote,[...excellant question... need revealed to me...replace lies with truth and walk in freedom...hope did not distract...]
> You did not distract but enriched the discussion by bringing in the two minds.
> I ask, did the replacement in your case;
> A. make you free from guilt that was not deseved?
> B. make you free from shame that was not deserved?
> C. make you free from fear that was not deserved?
> If you could respond to those, then I could add some other aspects to this discussion.
> Lou"
>
>
> Hmmm... I can't answer this simply, but I'll attempt to asnwer it nonetheless...
>
> As for what I "deserve"... I don't see that I deserve any of God's mercies, grace, or gifts... in fact, that's why His gifts to me are so amazing -- He wants me to have them, because He loves me, and He shows me that I can't possibly deserve what He gives me freely.
>
> His love is lavish in that regard (in ALL regards!).
>
> I see that I WAS guilty of being His enemy when I came into this life... I see that I felt shame, because of the awareness of that guilt... I see that I was then the slave of fear (which I see as the opposite of love).
>
> I experienced Truth replacing the lies that I believed, as His mercy towards me. He didn't want me enslaved to the lies I believed... He wanted me set free. Free to respond to Him, rather than to react to fear.
>
> I don't suppose my answer is helping...
>
> While I deserved, due to my own rebellion against Him, and my own resistance to Him, the consequences of what I believed, and how I thus reacted, He loved me enough to rescue me from both what I believed, and the consequences of my reactions.
>
> Even while I was resisting Him, He was pursuing me... He left the 99 sheep in the fold, and went after me, the one who was lost ... and He continued to pursue me until I was found.
>
> I've come to believe that love, and not fear, is the most powerful motivation in the universe... but that fear is the most common motivation in effect on this planet.
>
> I'm praying to have fear cast out of my life with perfect love, for fear is about punishment, and I no longer believe that God punishes, except to correct me, and to bring me back into relationship with Himself... so even His anger, and His wrath, is a result of His love for me.
>
> He loves me enough to be wrathful toward that which would destroy me -- including the lies I've believed.
>
> Does that answer you, or give you something to work with in what you're teaching, Lou?
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
>
> "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."

Dena,
You wrote,[...his gifts...the slave of fear...shakled...rescued...I don't suppose...lost sheep...fear cast out of my life...].
We have been discussing things that other members have asked about and your replies are very helpfull indeed. The discussion has the componants of Solomon's Temple, Masonry, 666, and then the beast that came out of the sea and then the idols of the heart.
What has been revealed to me is that man has two natures and we could be led by one or the other. The one nature is that of just a animal with out a spirit, like the beasts of the jungle.
The scriptures used by the Jews tell of man being created out of the dust of the ground. But then God breathed into man the breath of life. Now man has a Spirit. It was God's breath, so the spirit came from God. Man can be led by the spirit or led by the flesh. Solomon, 666, the beast that came out of the sea, the idols of the heart. (I will reveal what has been revealed to me about this shortly)
The scriptures used by the Jews write in the book called Ezekiel chapter 34 verse 12;
[...As a shepard seeks out his flock in the day, that he is among his sheep that are scattered, so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day...].
When I was on that shore and saw the Beast come out of the sea I said to the Rider that I was lost and afraid and wanted a way out of here.
Then the Rider stretched out His hand and spoke words that I could not undertsand and a mighty wind pushed the sea apart and there was dry land leading way off to a great gate. Then the Rider vanished and there was like a great army comming at us to kill us and I could hear the sound of 1000 motors. I thought that they were commimg to keep me from being delivered. I looked at the great gate across the dry land that was opened up and the Rider was there and he called to me, "I am the door, I am the Good Shepard; the Good Shepard gives His life for the sheep" .
Lou

 

Lou's reply to Dena-frmbndge

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2008, at 15:46:23

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-feighro Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2008, at 14:58:38

> > Lou, you wrote:
> >
> > "Dena,
> > You wrote,[...excellant question... need revealed to me...replace lies with truth and walk in freedom...hope did not distract...]
> > You did not distract but enriched the discussion by bringing in the two minds.
> > I ask, did the replacement in your case;
> > A. make you free from guilt that was not deseved?
> > B. make you free from shame that was not deserved?
> > C. make you free from fear that was not deserved?
> > If you could respond to those, then I could add some other aspects to this discussion.
> > Lou"
> >
> >
> > Hmmm... I can't answer this simply, but I'll attempt to asnwer it nonetheless...
> >
> > As for what I "deserve"... I don't see that I deserve any of God's mercies, grace, or gifts... in fact, that's why His gifts to me are so amazing -- He wants me to have them, because He loves me, and He shows me that I can't possibly deserve what He gives me freely.
> >
> > His love is lavish in that regard (in ALL regards!).
> >
> > I see that I WAS guilty of being His enemy when I came into this life... I see that I felt shame, because of the awareness of that guilt... I see that I was then the slave of fear (which I see as the opposite of love).
> >
> > I experienced Truth replacing the lies that I believed, as His mercy towards me. He didn't want me enslaved to the lies I believed... He wanted me set free. Free to respond to Him, rather than to react to fear.
> >
> > I don't suppose my answer is helping...
> >
> > While I deserved, due to my own rebellion against Him, and my own resistance to Him, the consequences of what I believed, and how I thus reacted, He loved me enough to rescue me from both what I believed, and the consequences of my reactions.
> >
> > Even while I was resisting Him, He was pursuing me... He left the 99 sheep in the fold, and went after me, the one who was lost ... and He continued to pursue me until I was found.
> >
> > I've come to believe that love, and not fear, is the most powerful motivation in the universe... but that fear is the most common motivation in effect on this planet.
> >
> > I'm praying to have fear cast out of my life with perfect love, for fear is about punishment, and I no longer believe that God punishes, except to correct me, and to bring me back into relationship with Himself... so even His anger, and His wrath, is a result of His love for me.
> >
> > He loves me enough to be wrathful toward that which would destroy me -- including the lies I've believed.
> >
> > Does that answer you, or give you something to work with in what you're teaching, Lou?
> >
> > Shalom, Dena
> >
> >
> > "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."
>
> Dena,
> You wrote,[...his gifts...the slave of fear...shakled...rescued...I don't suppose...lost sheep...fear cast out of my life...].
> We have been discussing things that other members have asked about and your replies are very helpfull indeed. The discussion has the componants of Solomon's Temple, Masonry, 666, and then the beast that came out of the sea and then the idols of the heart.
> What has been revealed to me is that man has two natures and we could be led by one or the other. The one nature is that of just a animal with out a spirit, like the beasts of the jungle.
> The scriptures used by the Jews tell of man being created out of the dust of the ground. But then God breathed into man the breath of life. Now man has a Spirit. It was God's breath, so the spirit came from God. Man can be led by the spirit or led by the flesh. Solomon, 666, the beast that came out of the sea, the idols of the heart. (I will reveal what has been revealed to me about this shortly)
> The scriptures used by the Jews write in the book called Ezekiel chapter 34 verse 12;
> [...As a shepard seeks out his flock in the day, that he is among his sheep that are scattered, so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day...].
> When I was on that shore and saw the Beast come out of the sea I said to the Rider that I was lost and afraid and wanted a way out of here.
> Then the Rider stretched out His hand and spoke words that I could not undertsand and a mighty wind pushed the sea apart and there was dry land leading way off to a great gate. Then the Rider vanished and there was like a great army comming at us to kill us and I could hear the sound of 1000 motors. I thought that they were commimg to keep me from being delivered. I looked at the great gate across the dry land that was opened up and the Rider was there and he called to me, "I am the door, I am the Good Shepard; the Good Shepard gives His life for the sheep" .
> Lou

Dena,
The army was approaching me. They were in groups of 60, ten groups, motorcycles. Then all at once the wheels came off off all the bikes and the Rider called out to me,"Stretch out your hand over the sea that the waters will come over the motorcycles and their drivers."
I did and the waters came over the 600 as a great wave that covered all of them. There was not one left on the shore.
Then the Rider allowed the sea to close up. And he called out to me, "Who has believed our report? and to whom is the {Arm of the Lord} revealed?"
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-frmbndge Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 6, 2008, at 14:09:40

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-frmbndge, posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2008, at 15:46:23

Hey Lou -

Of course this seems indicative of the army of the Egyptians, and the chariots, and how the Red Sea covered them, after Moses led the Israelites to the other side, and safety.

What's next, Lou?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-brdvlf Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2008, at 13:00:12

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-frmbndge Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 6, 2008, at 14:09:40

> Hey Lou -
>
> Of course this seems indicative of the army of the Egyptians, and the chariots, and how the Red Sea covered them, after Moses led the Israelites to the other side, and safety.
>
> What's next, Lou?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...what is next..].
It was a frightening experiance to see the 600 swept out into the sea. The dark clouds lifted and I was alone and lost I could see a vast plain way off and it looked like there was some smoke arising from a city.
Then the Rider appeared. I asked Him what that was all about and He said to me, "Remember this day that you were brought out from those that wanted to put you in bondage, by the strengh of {My Hand}, for it shall be a sign to you on {your hand and between your eyes}."
I asked, "Is there any way out of here?" The Rider said to me," Go to that great plain afar off. I will turn the bitter waters sweet for you and heaven will have bread rain down for you. And Whoever asks you as to how you got there, tell them I Am sent you."
Lou

 

Lou's reply to Dena-scndth

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2008, at 14:00:26

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-brdvlf Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2008, at 13:00:12

> > Hey Lou -
> >
> > Of course this seems indicative of the army of the Egyptians, and the chariots, and how the Red Sea covered them, after Moses led the Israelites to the other side, and safety.
> >
> > What's next, Lou?
> >
> > Shalom, Dena
>
> Dena,
> You wrote,[...what is next..].
> It was a frightening experiance to see the 600 swept out into the sea. The dark clouds lifted and I was alone and lost I could see a vast plain way off and it looked like there was some smoke arising from a city.
> Then the Rider appeared. I asked Him what that was all about and He said to me, "Remember this day that you were brought out from those that wanted to put you in bondage, by the strengh of {My Hand}, for it shall be a sign to you on {your hand and between your eyes}."
> I asked, "Is there any way out of here?" The Rider said to me," Go to that great plain afar off. I will turn the bitter waters sweet for you and heaven will have bread rain down for you. And Whoever asks you as to how you got there, tell them I Am sent you."
> Lou

Dena,
I came to a great city. Immediatly I was surrounded by men that took me to a great statue made of gold. I was told that it was a statue of their king and that it was in terms of their measurments, 60 tall by 6 in width. Then I heard from a booming speaker loud music and a voice saying, " It is commanded that all people at the time that they hear this music shall fall down and worship the gold image that the King has set up; and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace."
Then three mwn were brought before the king. One said that they did not fall down and worship the gold image when they heard the music because they do not worship idols. The king was furious. He orderd a furnace to be turned up 7 times its heat and to throw the men in. The furnace became so hot that the men stoking it caught fire and burned to death.
The three men were cast into the firery furnace bound. Then the king went to the furnace and looked in and behold, the men were walking in the midst of the fire and unharmed. The king turned around and said that there is a forth man not hurt by the flame. And He is Ridng a White Horse.
Then the king yelled for the three men to come out, but the Rider and horse did not. The king said," Who is this God of yours that has allowed you to be unharmed by this Lake of Fire?"
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-scndth Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 8, 2008, at 17:10:59

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-scndth, posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2008, at 14:00:26

Lou -

I'm familiar with that account - from the book of Daniel (which I believe to be partly history, and partly prophecy). Interestingly, I was reading about this very passage, in my friend's book (The Parable of Gold), just this morning...!

But I'm curious -- the book of Daniel doesn't describe the furnace as a "Lake of Fire"... can you elaborate on how you made this connection with the Lake of Fire mentioned in Revelation?

Thanks -

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-Lkof Fire Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 8, 2008, at 21:27:25

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-scndth Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 8, 2008, at 17:10:59

> Lou -
>
> I'm familiar with that account - from the book of Daniel (which I believe to be partly history, and partly prophecy). Interestingly, I was reading about this very passage, in my friend's book (The Parable of Gold), just this morning...!
>
> But I'm curious -- the book of Daniel doesn't describe the furnace as a "Lake of Fire"... can you elaborate on how you made this connection with the Lake of Fire mentioned in Revelation?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
We have been discussing the book called revelation and that it is a book of symbols. The one that penned the book, John, was a Jew and I think that his readers could also be Jews and non Jews, and I think that the book could be understood by Jews that were versed in their scriptures. As a Jew, I can relate to the symbols in the book and they are even revealed to me.
So this Lake of Fire is written in many places in the book called revelation and the Lake of fire as a symbol then could be known to the Jewish reader.
But we have also been discussing the beast that came out of the sea and 666 and idols of the heart and Solomon's Temple and that the body is the Temple of God made of stone, a mansion. These are all related in the book and revealed in the scriptures of the Jews.
We have talked about the house built on sand that fell and a house built of wood will burn and fall. And I will be talking about that fire and wood and the Lake of Fire.
In Revelation 20 verse 14 it reads,[...And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death...].And we can read in chapter 2 verse 11,[...He that overcomes will not be hurt of the second death...]
In the part in Danial that you are reading, I think it talks about the king's image, Nebuchadnezzar, in gold. And those that would not bow down to the image and worship it such as Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego were cast into the fiery furnace. But they were not hurt by the fire. They were overcomers and their faith was tried by fire. Their house was not built of wood. Their house was The Temple of God, stone. And in the Father's house there are many mansions.
In the book called Isiah chapter 43 verse 2, we read,[....When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow you, when you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned neither shall the flame kindle upon you...]. There is much more to this....
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-Lkof Fire Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 8, 2008, at 23:47:03

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-Lkof Fire Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 8, 2008, at 21:27:25

It's fascinating to me Lou, how you link so many seemingly incongruent parts of Scripture. As a non-Jewish believer (taught through traditional, institutional Christianity), these parts were each a separate "portion" ... and not explained in a way that connected the parts into a whole (which, I realize is western-influenced understanding at work). I also recognize that the Bible was written to an eastern people, in an eastern part of the world -- and that the eastern focus is more wholistic -- so there would be more of an awareness of integration...

Anyway, I find it fascinating to see it starting to come together in my own mind... what's the "more to come", Lou?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-duece Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2008, at 20:37:16

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-Lkof Fire Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 8, 2008, at 23:47:03

> It's fascinating to me Lou, how you link so many seemingly incongruent parts of Scripture. As a non-Jewish believer (taught through traditional, institutional Christianity), these parts were each a separate "portion" ... and not explained in a way that connected the parts into a whole (which, I realize is western-influenced understanding at work). I also recognize that the Bible was written to an eastern people, in an eastern part of the world -- and that the eastern focus is more wholistic -- so there would be more of an awareness of integration...
>
> Anyway, I find it fascinating to see it starting to come together in my own mind... what's the "more to come", Lou?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...in my own mind...].
The book called Revelation is about the mind. It is about two minds. It is about two masters. It is about two walks. It is about two roads. It is about two Gates. It is about two desires.
What are these two minds? What are the two masters? How are the two minds controlled by the two masters? The book called Revelation writes about the ways that the masters control the two minds. One mind is led to death and many entertain that mind. And the other mind is led to life and few find it.
The book called Revelation connects the symbols in scripture and reveals that to be carnally minded is death. And to be spitually minded is life and peace. And the member here asked about 666. I am answering that question.
For we have seen Solomon and his wealth. We have seen Pharaoh's army of 600 chariots. We have seen the giant image of gold of Nebuchadnezzar that was 60X6.
The world still has those that want to make a statue of themselves while they are alive. The book called Revelation is for any peoples to read while there is an idol of gold in their heart. This could be now, the time before now, and the time after now. Opening up the book now is the same as when John penned it and will be the same tomorrow. For the beast that comes out of the sea was seen by John. It was seen by me and it can be seen now by anyone. The people with the golden idols have all the bread that they want to eat. when I was lost on the sand and went to the city on the great plain and saw the statue, heaven rained down bread to me to keep me alive. The rider said that it was a sign to me.
I went back to the shore. I was hungry. The Rider was there to meet me. He said to me,"You saw the king and his idol of gold. You saw that he wanted power and the things that wealth can obtain and to have others bow down to him and he could not allow one to refuse so he killed those. He had all the bread that he wanted. But man shall not live by bread alone." "You had bread rain down from heaven and your fathers ate that same bread and died. There is a bread that comes down from heaven that a man may eat that he may live forever. Moses gave your fathers bread from heaven but my Father will give you bread from heaven that will give life to the world."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-duece Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 12, 2008, at 23:07:23

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-duece Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2008, at 20:37:16

Sorry for the delay, Lou...

So, are you saying that it's an attitude of the heart, whether I'm trusting in the One who gives Life Bread, or in an idol (represented by a Great Beast, seeking to devour...)?

Are you saying that there is no time coming (end time), in which people will receive a "mark" with which to buy and sell, and thus "sell themselves" over to the Beast, with those who refuse to do so receiving tribulation?

That it's all figurative, and indicative of a spiritual condition...?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-trevlif Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 13, 2008, at 12:43:17

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-duece Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 12, 2008, at 23:07:23

> Sorry for the delay, Lou...
>
> So, are you saying that it's an attitude of the heart, whether I'm trusting in the One who gives Life Bread, or in an idol (represented by a Great Beast, seeking to devour...)?
>
> Are you saying that there is no time coming (end time), in which people will receive a "mark" with which to buy and sell, and thus "sell themselves" over to the Beast, with those who refuse to do so receiving tribulation?
>
> That it's all figurative, and indicative of a spiritual condition...?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote.[...attitude of the heart...trusting...The Bread of Life...idol...the mark...spiritual condition...end time...tribulation...]
The symbols in the book called Revelation have been revealed to me and they come from the scriptures that the Jews use. The book in it's entirety has an overiding message that I see in the book.
I see that one aspect of the overiding message is that man has been expelled from The Tree of Life. This is in the book called Genesis. In The Garden, man had a personal relationship with God and dwelled together. Then God drove man out of The Garden and we read in the third chapter verses 22 on;
[...Then God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the Tree of Life, and eat, and live forever"
Then God sent him out of the Garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubin at the east of the garden of Eden and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to The Tree of Life."...].
The Tree of Life is found in the book called Revelation and the cherubin guard the way back.
The book called revelation is a Great Guide to lead one back to The Tree of Life. The book describes an Overcomming. The Overcomming leads one to the Tree of Life and a place where one can dwell with God and the cherubin open the Gate to The Father's House.
The book tells of the nearness to The Gate that the cherubins guard. That Gate is near, it is At Hand.
The book tells of a bongage. It tells of idols of the heart and kingdoms that comtroll us and become destroyed. And the book tells of a Kingdom that will never be destroyed, a Kingdom within us.
And those that read the book called Revelation are promised a blessing. And the book tells that there will be great tribulation on the jouney back to The Tree of Life which is in the midst of Paradise of God.
As I stood on the shore with the Rider, I was experianceing great tribulation. I asked the Rider, "How long will be the suffering?" The Rider said to me, "Fear none of those things which you shall suffer, that you may be tested. Be faithfull until death and I will give you The Crown of Life."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-trevlif Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 13, 2008, at 12:58:58

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-trevlif Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 13, 2008, at 12:43:17

So, the book of Revelation is a symbolic description of how I begin my journey, locked out of the Garden, unable to get to the Tree of Life, now burdened with knowing good and evil (& therefore trusting in my own fallible wisdom, which leads to destruction), and that there will be trials and testings in my life, designed to bring me to the end of my bondage to idolotry, designed to show me how to become an Overcomer, to enter the Kingdom which is at hand, and to be led back to the Tree of Life -- that this is a journey, frought with tribulation, which I will be shown how (& enabled) to overcome.

Am I describing it as you see it? Am I missing something?

What else are you wanting to show...?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-hidnmna Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2008, at 20:17:19

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-trevlif Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 13, 2008, at 12:58:58

> So, the book of Revelation is a symbolic description of how I begin my journey, locked out of the Garden, unable to get to the Tree of Life, now burdened with knowing good and evil (& therefore trusting in my own fallible wisdom, which leads to destruction), and that there will be trials and testings in my life, designed to bring me to the end of my bondage to idolotry, designed to show me how to become an Overcomer, to enter the Kingdom which is at hand, and to be led back to the Tree of Life -- that this is a journey, frought with tribulation, which I will be shown how (& enabled) to overcome.
>
> Am I describing it as you see it? Am I missing something?
>
> What else are you wanting to show...?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...led back to The Tree of Life...]
When Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden, they could not go back to eat of the Tree of Life for it was guarded by cherubin. The children of Israel that were delivered from bondage were given manna from heaven to eat. They ate of that bread and died. That bread was picked up each day. If that bread was left to the next day, it corrupted with worms and would stink.
As we can read in the book called the revelation, in chapter 2 verse 17;
[...To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the hidden manna...]
This symbol could be well known to the Jews that were versed in their scriptures. The symbol could be from the book called Jeremiah the 15th chapter, the 16th verse which reads;[...Your words were found and I did eat them and your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart...] The children of Israel ate the manna from heaven and died. That manna was physical manna. It is my conviction that the hidden manna, is a spiritual manna that is The Word of God. When one eats of the hidden manna, a Jew could see this symbol as bringing in to their being spiritual life. For the bible defines the carnal (physical) mind as death, and the spiritual mind as life and peace which gives joy.
It has been revealed to me that the overcommers will eat of the hidden manna. This manna will give revelation that is hidden about the uncorruptable life. The overcommers can be transformed in their minds from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind by the Bread of Life, the hidden manna, the Word of God, our Daily Bread, the bread that came down from heaven that gives life to the world.
Lou

Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-hidnmna Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 14, 2008, at 23:07:04

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-hidnmna Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2008, at 20:17:19

Lou -

We keep coming back to the overcomers ... can anyone be an overcomer? How does one overcome? What is needed to be overcome?

What is the connection between the overcomers and the Bread of Life, Word of God, who brings life to the world?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-chldnvgd Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 15, 2008, at 11:38:28

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-hidnmna Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 14, 2008, at 23:07:04

> Lou -
>
> We keep coming back to the overcomers ... can anyone be an overcomer? How does one overcome? What is needed to be overcome?
>
> What is the connection between the overcomers and the Bread of Life, Word of God, who brings life to the world?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...overcomers...what is needed...the connection...].
The book called revelation ends with those that overcome being with God and eating of the Tree of Life. The scriptures that the Jews use start out with God making man in his image and being banished from the garden so that he can not eat of the Tree of Life but did eat of the Tree of the knowlege of good and evil.
Man left the Garden with a nature. It is that nature of man, the nature without eating of the Tree of Life, that is part of what is involved in overcoming. In the 3erd chapter of the book called revelation in the 21st verse we read;
[...To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne; even as I also overcame and am set down with my Father in His throne...].
And in the 2end chapter, the 17th verse, we read,[...To him that overcomes will I give ...{a new name}...known only to those that receive it...].
A new name. Not the name of man. In our nature without eating of the Tree of Life, we have a nature that Jews could be led to understanding in reading their scriptures. In the book called Jeremiah, the 17th chapter, the 7th verse we read,[...Blessed is the man that trusts in the Lord and whose hope the Lord is.
For he shall be as a {tree} planted by the waters and that spreads out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat comes, but her leaf shall be green: and shall not be carful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit...].
As I read the passages from that book, I go on and in the next verse it reads,[..The heart is deceitful above all, and desperatly wicked: who can know it?...]
As a Jew reading John's penned verses, the symbols stand out to me as the hidden manna, the secrets of God that can be revealed to those that seek Him and choose life. This thread was initiated by a member here asking if the bible talked about suicide. I have been answering that question. For as we go on, it has been revealed to me that there is a nature of man that he brought with him after being expelled from the garden and it is that nature that I see as what is part of what is involved in overcoming. For in the book called Jeremiah, in the 31st chapter, the 31st verse we read, and it is my conviction that the following verses are in relation to overcoming,[...Behold the days come, says the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with The House of Israel...not like the one that was made with the fathers when they were led out of bondage in Egypt, but a covenant where I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God and they shall be my people."...]
It has been revealed to me that The Tree of Life has the fruit that if one eats of it, they are released from bondage. Adam had a nature of bondage, for he was kept from eating from the Tree of Life. But one can eat of the Tree of Life now. For bread has come down from heaven. The secrets of God can be revealed, the hidden manna. We can eat of the hidden manna. We eat of the hidden manna by presenting ourselves as a living sacrifice by not being conformed to the nature that we have from not eating of the Tree of Life.
Then there is the world, and it has been revealed to me that we can overcome by not being conformed to the world that has made images that men are forced to bow down to or be killed.
Then there are powers in high places governed by the {prince} of those powers (let him that is reading understand) that we wrestle with. It has been revealed to me that if we resist those powers, they will flee from you.
It has been revealed to me that we can overcome if we abhor that which is evil and cleave to that which is good; and not to be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good.
As I stood on the sand of the shore with the Rider, I asked what is the first thing I could do to overcome. The Rider said to me, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them that despitefully use you, and persecute you. That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-chldnvgd Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 16, 2008, at 2:26:59

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-chldnvgd Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 15, 2008, at 11:38:28

Lou -

So then, how does one eat from the Tree of Life, in order to be released from bondage?

What more do you have to show us, from what you experienced?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-grtglf Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 16, 2008, at 16:57:45

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-chldnvgd Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 16, 2008, at 2:26:59

> Lou -
>
> So then, how does one eat from the Tree of Life, in order to be released from bondage?
>
> What more do you have to show us, from what you experienced?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...how does one eat of the Tree of Life to be released from bondage?....]
The tree of life was in the midst of the garden and so was the tree of the knowlege of good and evil. When Adam ate of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil, God said that he then became as a God for he now knew good and evil. God then sent him out of the garden so that he would not eat of the tree of life and live forever.
Now man was alive before he ate of the tree of the the knowlege of good and evil so he did not have to eat of the tree of life to have life. He was created from the dust of the ground and became a living soul. A living soul was as a natural being. The tree of life would have given him the life of God and he could live forever. But Adam did not eat of that tree and died, for he did not have God-life. God-life could have been obtained if he ate of the tree of life.
The tree of life could have given Adam a spiritual life that would live forever, wheras the tree of the knowlege of good and evil gave Adam a carnal life, that would die.
I have talked here about The Great Gulf. The Great Gulf that I originally wrote about here was an impassible gulf. It separated the carnal man from the spiritual man. It has been revealed to me that to be carnally minded leads to death, just as Adam died. And it has been revealed to me that to be spiritually minded is life and peace which leads to the life of God, eternal.
The Great Gulf separates two Kingdoms. To eat of the tree of life is to be in the Kingdom of God. The tree of life is available now, to all. One can cross over the Great Gulf. For one has already done so and has told of how the Gate will open to cross over to The Kingdom of God of life, from the kingdom of death.
What one does to open the Gate to the bridge to cross over the Great Gulf has been revealed to me. For when you are in great tribulation and are suffereing from great injustice and people have falsely accused you and said all manner of evil against you, there was one in whose last breath opened the Gate to The Kingdom of God. God accepted His plea for the world to eat of the Tree of Life. And God can honor that same plea when you want to cross over the Great Gulf from death to life.
You may be in the greatest pain of your life. And be shamed and ridiculed and mocked and taunted by others. You may be entraped and used as a scapegoat by others. You may have such hatred toward those that have persecuted you that you want vengance toward them. They may be taking your life away. But the Gate can open, for it has been revealed to me that One has given us the Way to open the Gate. In His last minuets of life He thought that God had forsaken Him. Yet the Gate to heaven opened when He said, "Father, forgive them: for they know not what they do."
Lou


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