Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 683173

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Re: Evil SLS

Posted by Declan on September 6, 2006, at 15:43:51

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by SLS on September 6, 2006, at 4:53:54

OK, Scott, let me rephrase that. It's perfectly obvious to me that evil exists in me. I suppose. Might depend on your idea of evil, I guess.

 

Re: Evil

Posted by SLS on September 6, 2006, at 16:44:28

In reply to Re: Evil SLS, posted by Declan on September 6, 2006, at 15:43:51

> OK, Scott, let me rephrase that. It's perfectly obvious to me that evil exists in me. I suppose. Might depend on your idea of evil, I guess.

Yeah. Depending on your definition, I can be pretty full of it myself.

;-)


- Scott

 

Re: Evil

Posted by Jost on September 23, 2006, at 11:51:56

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by SLS on September 6, 2006, at 16:44:28

The concept of evil isn't one that comes naturally to me.

I use the word occasionally for its emotional or rhetorical effect, if I especially feel horrified or repelled by some act of someone--or acts-- but I don't mean it literally. I mean it figuratively--

For me, evil has a religious significance, not just a moral one-- or it's a type of reification of something more fluid and unspecifiable, located in action, not in thingness.

I personally separate morality from religion, even though religions embrace many moral principles.

Jost

 

Re: Evil

Posted by Declan on September 23, 2006, at 17:17:40

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by Jost on September 23, 2006, at 11:51:56

Some (at least) of the evil that's done in the world is done by people who felt they were doing their duty.

 

Re: Evil Jost

Posted by rayww on September 24, 2006, at 9:22:09

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by Jost on September 23, 2006, at 11:51:56

> The concept of evil isn't one that comes naturally to me.
>
> I use the word occasionally for its emotional or rhetorical effect, if I especially feel horrified or repelled by some act of someone--or acts-- but I don't mean it literally. I mean it figuratively--
>
> For me, evil has a religious significance, not just a moral one-- or it's a type of reification of something more fluid and unspecifiable, located in action, not in thingness.
>
> I personally separate morality from religion, even though religions embrace many moral principles.
>

A thought provoking reply Jost. However, the principles of morality were here long before the word "religion". Maybe morality has more to do with religion than religion itself. Religion is as much how we live as how we worship. If you want to know what a person believes, you watch what they do.

> Jost
>
>

 

Re: Evil

Posted by alexandra_k on September 26, 2006, at 8:13:52

In reply to Re: Evil Jost, posted by rayww on September 24, 2006, at 9:22:09

>the principles of morality were here long before the word "religion".

principles of morality were here long before the world "morality" too...

> Maybe morality has more to do with religion than religion itself.

it is controversial how much morality has to do with religion. it seems possible to live morally without practicing religion and it seems possible to practice religion without living morally.

it seems contradictory to live religiously without living religiously, however.


 

Re: Evil alexandra_k

Posted by rayww on September 27, 2006, at 12:02:07

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by alexandra_k on September 26, 2006, at 8:13:52

Morally, religiously, none of it would be possible if not for evil in opposition to.

Would there be evil if Satan was bound and thrown out of the picture?

Oops. Who is Satan?

 

Re: Evil

Posted by muffled on September 27, 2006, at 22:01:58

In reply to Re: Evil alexandra_k, posted by rayww on September 27, 2006, at 12:02:07

> Morally, religiously, none of it would be possible if not for evil in opposition to.
>
> Would there be evil if Satan was bound and thrown out of the picture?

***yes
>
> Oops. Who is Satan?

*** apparently a fallen angel I heard.
Evil exists.
It does.
>
>

 

Re: Evil

Posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 8:23:07

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by muffled on September 27, 2006, at 22:01:58

Jost put into words so well how I think and feel.

> > Morally, religiously, none of it would be possible if not for evil in opposition to.

Far Eastern religions and philosophies do not believe that there is an evil being or evil force extant that attempts to influence people or things. Good and evil are not in conflict. For example, "as a concept, Taoist do not hold the position of good against evil; rather they see the interdependence of all dualities. So when one labels something as a good, one automatically creates evil." (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/80/story_8059_1.html) Here, everything has properties or energies of yin and yang that are in balance. If one wants to look at the balance of good and evil, the reality is that all objects and actions contain aspects of each.

> > Would there be evil if Satan was bound and thrown out of the picture?

That's an interesting question. Again, in the Eastern religions, evil is created once good is proposed. Satan is not necessary. Only man is. So the answer is yes. Of course, evil is created once evil is proposed as well. :-) / :-(

> > Oops. Who is Satan?

> *** apparently a fallen angel I heard.
> Evil exists.
> It does.

I agree.


- Scott

 

Re: Evil

Posted by rayww on September 30, 2006, at 10:09:00

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 8:23:07

There is truth in all religions, but not all religions are all true. Most religions are man made with some sort of spiritual foundation. So what is spirit? Does the spirit exist?

Because there are so many different spiritual paths with some leading toward good, others toward evil, and still others leading nowhere, you would tend to believe there must be good and evil spirit as well. Does evil think it is powerful enough to overthrow, and dethrone Good? If there is anything we the people have a right to know for sure, it is who is competing and which side we are on. The time for confusion is past. If you are caught in the middle somewhere you will feel the pull, because there is no safe middle ground today. The safe middle ground would be that spirit which leads you to nothingness - not believing in good, not believing in evil, not believing in God or Satan, etc. But, is it really safe?

Cling to the good in life and religion. It will lead you to more good, and provide anchor.

I've been all over the place, and it wasn't till I started to put my heart into it and really cling, that I felt the healing peace. It's hard to believe one way and act another. It just doesn't work. There are too many spirit paths working with you, give them an inch, they take a mile, and it's hard to get back. The spiritual realm of life is very real. It exists. We need to learn how to work with it for our good.

Can it be proven? It's not meant to be. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=jacob+5%3A48
This scripture I read this morning explains how and what happens to people spiritually. I don't know if you will understand the analogy of it. The spirit can provide understanding if you focus on it, and by that you will know it is real.

Only God is lofty. When we put ourselves above God we become lofty. In the end all loftiness will be made humble by God. I prefer to keep myself humble thank-you, and to do that, just in case God means what He says, I will get this spirit business figured out. I will figure out for myself whether evil and good exist. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=loftiness&do=Search

I believe in what the scripture says about it.

 

Re: Evil rayww

Posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 10:18:09

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by rayww on September 30, 2006, at 10:09:00

I will figure out for myself whether evil and good exist.

**thats cool what you wrote.
I wish I could somehow make you understand in your heart that good and evil exists.
But right now I can't deal with this. Sorry.
I just wanted to say to you that evil DOES exist. Don't look to find if evil exists. IT DOES IT DOES. Please beleive me. Stay way from evil. Just look for good only. There is good.
And God (or perhaps a minion of His!) does show hisself in our lives if you pay attn. and listen.
He speaks SO quietly.
Very, very quietlty.
And you'll miss it if you not paying attn.
Take care,
Muffled

 

Re: Evil muffled

Posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 10:48:08

In reply to Re: Evil rayww, posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 10:18:09

Hi Muffled.

> I just wanted to say to you that evil DOES exist. Don't look to find if evil exists. IT DOES IT DOES. Please beleive me. Stay way from evil. Just look for good only. There is good.
> And God (or perhaps a minion of His!) does show hisself in our lives if you pay attn. and listen.
> He speaks SO quietly.
> Very, very quietlty.
> And you'll miss it if you not paying attn.
> Take care,
> Muffled


I love this.

I will continue to live as you say.

I do try to stay away from evil. I do not look for evil. I turn away from negative energy. I ignore cynacism.

I do look for the positive. It is there. And yes, it is sometimes quiet and shy. But to make a habit of always looking for and finding the positive ends up producing a path to follow. And it is a good path. A wonderful path. It is because I look for God.

Thanks for helping me renew my positive energy.

You are a special being.

Be well.


- Scott

 

:) (nm) SLS

Posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 11:34:52

In reply to Re: Evil muffled, posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 10:48:08

 

Re: Evil

Posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 11:57:19

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by rayww on September 30, 2006, at 10:09:00

> There is truth in all religions,

Perhaps. I like to think so.

> but not all religions are all true.

Perhaps none of them are. If no two religions are exactly alike, then at most, only one could be the Truth. I happen to prefer the Eastern philosophies to explain the nature of existence and our place in it.

> Most religions are man made...

In some religions, it is ok to believe that all religions are man made, and that God is God.

> ...with some sort of spiritual foundation. So what is spirit? Does the spirit exist?

It seems to me that many religions around the world have arrived at similar belief systems despite not having had contact with each other. For this, I believe that there is a natural spirit.

> Because there are so many different spiritual paths with some leading toward good, others toward evil, and still others leading nowhere, you would tend to believe there must be good and evil spirit as well.

You consider a path towards evil a spiritual path.

This is where you and I differ. I hope you have in your heart and mind enough room that someone should have a belief different from yours. I believe that there is only one God and only one Spirit. It is Good.

> Only God is lofty. When we put ourselves above God we become lofty. In the end all loftiness will be made humble by God. I prefer to keep myself humble thank-you,

Do you feel that I am lofty for presenting beliefs that are different from yours?

> I will figure out for myself whether evil and good exist.

You already have.

I don't understand why you felt the need to write this. If you wish to discuss matters of belief, then you might encounter someone whose beliefs are different from your own. If you wish to state what your beliefs are, you might encounter someone with alternate beliefs who might wish to state what they are. This is what occurred. I did not tell you what to believe. I did not berate you or your belief system. I did not - and this is very important - I did not state my beliefs to be fact. I did not portray them as being the only true religion. I did not state that it was a fact that my scripture was the word of God. If I did believe that my scripture was the word of God, I would have the courtesy to state it in just that way - I believe. Saying "I believe" does not make a Truth any less true. It just prevents alternate views from being any more false.

You do make a lot of declarations and ask a lot of questions. These invite discussion.


- Scott

 

Re: Evil

Posted by rayww on September 30, 2006, at 12:18:45

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 11:57:19

> It seems to me that many religions around the world have arrived at similar belief systems despite not having had contact with each other. For this, I believe that there is a natural spirit.

<<I believe the same, call it a natural spirit or God, whatever it is has introduced truth to all people in both eastern, and western civilizations.

>
> > Because there are so many different spiritual paths with some leading toward good, others toward evil, and still others leading nowhere, you would tend to believe there must be good and evil spirit as well.
>
> You consider a path towards evil a spiritual path.
>
> This is where you and I differ. I hope you have in your heart and mind enough room that someone should have a belief different from yours. I believe that there is only one God and only one Spirit. It is Good.

<<<Of course I allow you your own belief. How could I do otherwise?


> Do you feel that I am lofty for presenting beliefs that are different from yours?

<<<<Certainly not my friend. I'm glad you had the courage to present them.

>
> > I will figure out for myself whether evil and good exist.
>
> You already have.

<<<<<Yes. I have. That was the question posed in this thread, and the invitation for opinions to be shared.

>

<<<You have the right to believe and share your truth, and isn't it possible that even by not knowing one another we can somehow discovered that "natural spirit" in our similarities?

>
> You do make a lot of declarations and ask a lot of questions. These invite discussion.


<<<<Is there anything wrong with discussion?
>
>
> - Scott
>
>

 

Re: Evil muffled

Posted by 10derHeart on September 30, 2006, at 16:15:19

In reply to Re: Evil rayww, posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 10:18:09

Muffled, I love what you posted here. Well, heck, I love what you post anywhere :-)

This really resonates with me, though. We think and feel alike alot, seems to me.

This is SUCH an important topic. Good thread. Deep thoughts.

You have wisdom, NOT just knowledge, muffy, and so I shake my head whenever you're feeling like calling yourself that not-nice-word (st***d) - it's as far from the truth as........well, as Good is from Evil. It's the Evil that thinks It can make you feel [that word] instead of the sensitive, wise woman you are.

I'll bet God has a reason to smile at you quite often.

 

Re: Evil SLS

Posted by 10derHeart on September 30, 2006, at 16:17:33

In reply to Re: Evil muffled, posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 10:48:08

And I love what *you* wrote, too, Scott.

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Excellent.
You bring such peace, light and good to these boards.
Thank you for that :-)

 

Re: EvilSLS

Posted by TJO on September 30, 2006, at 19:07:34

In reply to Re: Evil SLS, posted by 10derHeart on September 30, 2006, at 16:17:33

> And I love what *you* wrote, too, Scott.
>
> Yes.
> Yes.
> Yes.
> Excellent.
> You bring such peace, light and good to these boards.
> Thank you for that :-)

yes and peace, light, and good to those around you too.

:-)

Tam

 

Re: Evil

Posted by TJO on September 30, 2006, at 19:11:08

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 8:23:07

> Jost put into words so well how I think and feel.
>
> > > Morally, religiously, none of it would be possible if not for evil in opposition to.
>
> Far Eastern religions and philosophies do not believe that there is an evil being or evil force extant that attempts to influence people or things. Good and evil are not in conflict. For example, "as a concept, Taoist do not hold the position of good against evil; rather they see the interdependence of all dualities. So when one labels something as a good, one automatically creates evil." (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/80/story_8059_1.html) Here, everything has properties or energies of yin and yang that are in balance. If one wants to look at the balance of good and evil, the reality is that all objects and actions contain aspects of each.
>
> > > Would there be evil if Satan was bound and thrown out of the picture?
>
> That's an interesting question. Again, in the Eastern religions, evil is created once good is proposed. Satan is not necessary. Only man is. So the answer is yes. Of course, evil is created once evil is proposed as well. :-) / :-(
>
> > > Oops. Who is Satan?
>
> > *** apparently a fallen angel I heard.
> > Evil exists.
> > It does.
>
> I agree.
>
>
> - Scott

I find this a very well-written statement of what I beleive in also. I actually had a similiar discussion with someone recently in a diner, but this states it better. :-D

Tammy

 

:-) (nm) 10derHeart

Posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 19:22:04

In reply to Re: Evil SLS, posted by 10derHeart on September 30, 2006, at 16:17:33

 

Awwwwwwwww10der:-) (nm)

Posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 19:39:16

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by TJO on September 30, 2006, at 19:11:08

 

Re: blocked for 12 weeks rayww

Posted by Dr. Bob on October 1, 2006, at 14:43:46

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by rayww on September 30, 2006, at 10:09:00

> not all religions are all true.

Please don't put down the beliefs of others.

But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.

If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce

Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.

Thanks,

Bob

PS: According to the new system:

previous block: 6 weeks
period of time since previous block: 9 weeks
uncivil toward a particular individual or group: no
particularly uncivil: no
different type of incivility: no
clearly didn't understand PBC and made effort to reply: no
provoked: no
uncivil in multiple posts at same time: no
already archived: no

If we take 9 weeks, divide by 10, and round down, that's a reduction of 0 weeks. If we apply that to your previous block, that's 6 - 0 = 6 weeks. And if we double that, that's 12 weeks.

 

Re: blocked for 12 weeks Dr. Bob

Posted by SLS on October 1, 2006, at 18:30:01

In reply to Re: blocked for 12 weeks rayww, posted by Dr. Bob on October 1, 2006, at 14:43:46

Hi Dr. Bob.

I wanted to make a few comments regarding your decision here, but I don't know where that is best done.


- Scott


> > not all religions are all true.
>
> Please don't put down the beliefs of others.
>
> But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> PS: According to the new system:
>
> previous block: 6 weeks
> period of time since previous block: 9 weeks
> uncivil toward a particular individual or group: no
> particularly uncivil: no
> different type of incivility: no
> clearly didn't understand PBC and made effort to reply: no
> provoked: no
> uncivil in multiple posts at same time: no
> already archived: no
>
> If we take 9 weeks, divide by 10, and round down, that's a reduction of 0 weeks. If we apply that to your previous block, that's 6 - 0 = 6 weeks. And if we double that, that's 12 weeks.

 

On admin. Scott (nm) SLS

Posted by muffled on October 1, 2006, at 18:39:13

In reply to Re: blocked for 12 weeks Dr. Bob, posted by SLS on October 1, 2006, at 18:30:01

 

Re: On admin. Scott - Thanks muffled

Posted by SLS on October 1, 2006, at 21:02:46

In reply to On admin. Scott (nm) SLS, posted by muffled on October 1, 2006, at 18:39:13

Comments regarding posting block of rayww:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060918/msgs/690942.html


- Scott


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