Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 683173

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 35. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Evil

Posted by Declan on September 4, 2006, at 21:35:49

Anyone have anything sensible (or otherwise) to say about evil?

I don't, not really. I remember it being said in a primer about Sartre that for him all evil was projection. And also I've heard other words like destructive stand in for evil. And then there's the emotive quality of the word that distinguishes it in the effect it produces.

 

Re: Evil

Posted by Alexus on September 4, 2006, at 23:07:52

In reply to Evil, posted by Declan on September 4, 2006, at 21:35:49

there are two kinds of evil:

moral

and

natural

some people think that the existence of those show that god cannot be simultaneously:

all loving
and
all powerful

but others disagree...

 

Re: Evil

Posted by SLS on September 5, 2006, at 4:27:35

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by Alexus on September 4, 2006, at 23:07:52

I believe that evil lies in the minds of men. I don't believe that there is an outside force (Satan) that acts to corrupt or destroy. We are perfectly capable of doing that on our own.

I believe that human beings are born as being basically good. Altruism seems to be hard-wired into our brains. Much bad comes from being taught or being deprived or being hurt.


- Scott

 

Re: Evil

Posted by Declan on September 5, 2006, at 19:25:50

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by SLS on September 5, 2006, at 4:27:35

I suppose it doesn't matter if we call our emotions gods and demons as long as we know what we are doing. It makes sense to talk about sex like that, because sex causes a rupture in the normal fabric of life and is therefore reasonably well described as a god, as the ancient Greeks did.

Maybe I'm interested in the use of the word. It seems that once you describe someone or something as evil, then further enquiry is unwelcome. This may be a mistake. One of the best, though not most enjoyable, books I have read is Gita Sereny's "Into That Darkness", about the compomises made by Franz Stangl, commandant of Sobibor and Treblinka. It's an investigation into evil, I guess.

 

Re: Evil

Posted by SLS on September 5, 2006, at 19:58:00

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by Declan on September 5, 2006, at 19:25:50

> I suppose it doesn't matter if we call our emotions gods and demons as long as we know what we are doing. It makes sense to talk about sex like that, because sex causes a rupture in the normal fabric of life and is therefore reasonably well described as a god, as the ancient Greeks did.

This will have me thinking for awhile.

> Maybe I'm interested in the use of the word. It seems that once you describe someone or something as evil, then further enquiry is unwelcome. This may be a mistake. One of the best, though not most enjoyable, books I have read is Gita Sereny's "Into That Darkness", about the compomises made by Franz Stangl, commandant of Sobibor and Treblinka. It's an investigation into evil, I guess.

Sounds interesting. I guess there are many different portals through which it can penetrate. Here, my using the word "it" gives evil substance. I don't believe there exists such a thing. However, to work with the word in such a fashion helps to segregate negative energy away from ourselves in such a way that we may not have to take responsibility for our own hurtful actions.


- Scott

 

Re: Evil

Posted by muffled on September 5, 2006, at 23:43:02

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by SLS on September 5, 2006, at 19:58:00

Evil does in fact exist.
I'm sorry.
So sorry.
I think there may be many here who have seen it.
Dead eyes.
They alive but dead.
They make you vomit.
And it don't go away.
It aheres to you somehow.
It becomes a horrendous part of your molecular structure.
So you can never ever make it gone.
Its with you forever.
and ever.
I'm glad some don't know.
Better that way.
Much better.

 

Sorry, don't read post above. I should not say it. (nm)

Posted by muffled on September 5, 2006, at 23:46:17

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by muffled on September 5, 2006, at 23:43:02

 

Re: Evil muffled

Posted by Declan on September 6, 2006, at 2:01:56

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by muffled on September 5, 2006, at 23:43:02

I don't see why you shouldn't have said it, Muffled. It's perfectly obvious that evil exists, and in us too.
The line between good and evil cuts through the heart of everyone, I think someone said.

 

Re: Evil

Posted by SLS on September 6, 2006, at 4:53:54

In reply to Re: Evil muffled, posted by Declan on September 6, 2006, at 2:01:56

> It's perfectly obvious that evil exists, and in us too.

I think this is a personal belief rather than a fact.

It is not obviously to me, therefore, it is not perfectly obvious.

What is in me is unknown to you.

This is a fact.


- Scott

 

Don't be sorry muffled

Posted by Dinah on September 6, 2006, at 9:37:04

In reply to Sorry, don't read post above. I should not say it. (nm), posted by muffled on September 5, 2006, at 23:46:17

Although I'm sorry you have had people bring it into your life. I wish I could go back and change time, for you and for so many others.

((((muffled))))

 

Re: Evil SLS

Posted by Declan on September 6, 2006, at 15:43:51

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by SLS on September 6, 2006, at 4:53:54

OK, Scott, let me rephrase that. It's perfectly obvious to me that evil exists in me. I suppose. Might depend on your idea of evil, I guess.

 

Re: Evil

Posted by SLS on September 6, 2006, at 16:44:28

In reply to Re: Evil SLS, posted by Declan on September 6, 2006, at 15:43:51

> OK, Scott, let me rephrase that. It's perfectly obvious to me that evil exists in me. I suppose. Might depend on your idea of evil, I guess.

Yeah. Depending on your definition, I can be pretty full of it myself.

;-)


- Scott

 

Re: Evil

Posted by Jost on September 23, 2006, at 11:51:56

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by SLS on September 6, 2006, at 16:44:28

The concept of evil isn't one that comes naturally to me.

I use the word occasionally for its emotional or rhetorical effect, if I especially feel horrified or repelled by some act of someone--or acts-- but I don't mean it literally. I mean it figuratively--

For me, evil has a religious significance, not just a moral one-- or it's a type of reification of something more fluid and unspecifiable, located in action, not in thingness.

I personally separate morality from religion, even though religions embrace many moral principles.

Jost

 

Re: Evil

Posted by Declan on September 23, 2006, at 17:17:40

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by Jost on September 23, 2006, at 11:51:56

Some (at least) of the evil that's done in the world is done by people who felt they were doing their duty.

 

Re: Evil Jost

Posted by rayww on September 24, 2006, at 9:22:09

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by Jost on September 23, 2006, at 11:51:56

> The concept of evil isn't one that comes naturally to me.
>
> I use the word occasionally for its emotional or rhetorical effect, if I especially feel horrified or repelled by some act of someone--or acts-- but I don't mean it literally. I mean it figuratively--
>
> For me, evil has a religious significance, not just a moral one-- or it's a type of reification of something more fluid and unspecifiable, located in action, not in thingness.
>
> I personally separate morality from religion, even though religions embrace many moral principles.
>

A thought provoking reply Jost. However, the principles of morality were here long before the word "religion". Maybe morality has more to do with religion than religion itself. Religion is as much how we live as how we worship. If you want to know what a person believes, you watch what they do.

> Jost
>
>

 

Re: Evil

Posted by alexandra_k on September 26, 2006, at 8:13:52

In reply to Re: Evil Jost, posted by rayww on September 24, 2006, at 9:22:09

>the principles of morality were here long before the word "religion".

principles of morality were here long before the world "morality" too...

> Maybe morality has more to do with religion than religion itself.

it is controversial how much morality has to do with religion. it seems possible to live morally without practicing religion and it seems possible to practice religion without living morally.

it seems contradictory to live religiously without living religiously, however.


 

Re: Evil alexandra_k

Posted by rayww on September 27, 2006, at 12:02:07

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by alexandra_k on September 26, 2006, at 8:13:52

Morally, religiously, none of it would be possible if not for evil in opposition to.

Would there be evil if Satan was bound and thrown out of the picture?

Oops. Who is Satan?

 

Re: Evil

Posted by muffled on September 27, 2006, at 22:01:58

In reply to Re: Evil alexandra_k, posted by rayww on September 27, 2006, at 12:02:07

> Morally, religiously, none of it would be possible if not for evil in opposition to.
>
> Would there be evil if Satan was bound and thrown out of the picture?

***yes
>
> Oops. Who is Satan?

*** apparently a fallen angel I heard.
Evil exists.
It does.
>
>

 

Re: Evil

Posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 8:23:07

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by muffled on September 27, 2006, at 22:01:58

Jost put into words so well how I think and feel.

> > Morally, religiously, none of it would be possible if not for evil in opposition to.

Far Eastern religions and philosophies do not believe that there is an evil being or evil force extant that attempts to influence people or things. Good and evil are not in conflict. For example, "as a concept, Taoist do not hold the position of good against evil; rather they see the interdependence of all dualities. So when one labels something as a good, one automatically creates evil." (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/80/story_8059_1.html) Here, everything has properties or energies of yin and yang that are in balance. If one wants to look at the balance of good and evil, the reality is that all objects and actions contain aspects of each.

> > Would there be evil if Satan was bound and thrown out of the picture?

That's an interesting question. Again, in the Eastern religions, evil is created once good is proposed. Satan is not necessary. Only man is. So the answer is yes. Of course, evil is created once evil is proposed as well. :-) / :-(

> > Oops. Who is Satan?

> *** apparently a fallen angel I heard.
> Evil exists.
> It does.

I agree.


- Scott

 

Re: Evil

Posted by rayww on September 30, 2006, at 10:09:00

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 8:23:07

There is truth in all religions, but not all religions are all true. Most religions are man made with some sort of spiritual foundation. So what is spirit? Does the spirit exist?

Because there are so many different spiritual paths with some leading toward good, others toward evil, and still others leading nowhere, you would tend to believe there must be good and evil spirit as well. Does evil think it is powerful enough to overthrow, and dethrone Good? If there is anything we the people have a right to know for sure, it is who is competing and which side we are on. The time for confusion is past. If you are caught in the middle somewhere you will feel the pull, because there is no safe middle ground today. The safe middle ground would be that spirit which leads you to nothingness - not believing in good, not believing in evil, not believing in God or Satan, etc. But, is it really safe?

Cling to the good in life and religion. It will lead you to more good, and provide anchor.

I've been all over the place, and it wasn't till I started to put my heart into it and really cling, that I felt the healing peace. It's hard to believe one way and act another. It just doesn't work. There are too many spirit paths working with you, give them an inch, they take a mile, and it's hard to get back. The spiritual realm of life is very real. It exists. We need to learn how to work with it for our good.

Can it be proven? It's not meant to be. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=jacob+5%3A48
This scripture I read this morning explains how and what happens to people spiritually. I don't know if you will understand the analogy of it. The spirit can provide understanding if you focus on it, and by that you will know it is real.

Only God is lofty. When we put ourselves above God we become lofty. In the end all loftiness will be made humble by God. I prefer to keep myself humble thank-you, and to do that, just in case God means what He says, I will get this spirit business figured out. I will figure out for myself whether evil and good exist. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=loftiness&do=Search

I believe in what the scripture says about it.

 

Re: Evil rayww

Posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 10:18:09

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by rayww on September 30, 2006, at 10:09:00

I will figure out for myself whether evil and good exist.

**thats cool what you wrote.
I wish I could somehow make you understand in your heart that good and evil exists.
But right now I can't deal with this. Sorry.
I just wanted to say to you that evil DOES exist. Don't look to find if evil exists. IT DOES IT DOES. Please beleive me. Stay way from evil. Just look for good only. There is good.
And God (or perhaps a minion of His!) does show hisself in our lives if you pay attn. and listen.
He speaks SO quietly.
Very, very quietlty.
And you'll miss it if you not paying attn.
Take care,
Muffled

 

Re: Evil muffled

Posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 10:48:08

In reply to Re: Evil rayww, posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 10:18:09

Hi Muffled.

> I just wanted to say to you that evil DOES exist. Don't look to find if evil exists. IT DOES IT DOES. Please beleive me. Stay way from evil. Just look for good only. There is good.
> And God (or perhaps a minion of His!) does show hisself in our lives if you pay attn. and listen.
> He speaks SO quietly.
> Very, very quietlty.
> And you'll miss it if you not paying attn.
> Take care,
> Muffled


I love this.

I will continue to live as you say.

I do try to stay away from evil. I do not look for evil. I turn away from negative energy. I ignore cynacism.

I do look for the positive. It is there. And yes, it is sometimes quiet and shy. But to make a habit of always looking for and finding the positive ends up producing a path to follow. And it is a good path. A wonderful path. It is because I look for God.

Thanks for helping me renew my positive energy.

You are a special being.

Be well.


- Scott

 

:) (nm) SLS

Posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 11:34:52

In reply to Re: Evil muffled, posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 10:48:08

 

Re: Evil

Posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 11:57:19

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by rayww on September 30, 2006, at 10:09:00

> There is truth in all religions,

Perhaps. I like to think so.

> but not all religions are all true.

Perhaps none of them are. If no two religions are exactly alike, then at most, only one could be the Truth. I happen to prefer the Eastern philosophies to explain the nature of existence and our place in it.

> Most religions are man made...

In some religions, it is ok to believe that all religions are man made, and that God is God.

> ...with some sort of spiritual foundation. So what is spirit? Does the spirit exist?

It seems to me that many religions around the world have arrived at similar belief systems despite not having had contact with each other. For this, I believe that there is a natural spirit.

> Because there are so many different spiritual paths with some leading toward good, others toward evil, and still others leading nowhere, you would tend to believe there must be good and evil spirit as well.

You consider a path towards evil a spiritual path.

This is where you and I differ. I hope you have in your heart and mind enough room that someone should have a belief different from yours. I believe that there is only one God and only one Spirit. It is Good.

> Only God is lofty. When we put ourselves above God we become lofty. In the end all loftiness will be made humble by God. I prefer to keep myself humble thank-you,

Do you feel that I am lofty for presenting beliefs that are different from yours?

> I will figure out for myself whether evil and good exist.

You already have.

I don't understand why you felt the need to write this. If you wish to discuss matters of belief, then you might encounter someone whose beliefs are different from your own. If you wish to state what your beliefs are, you might encounter someone with alternate beliefs who might wish to state what they are. This is what occurred. I did not tell you what to believe. I did not berate you or your belief system. I did not - and this is very important - I did not state my beliefs to be fact. I did not portray them as being the only true religion. I did not state that it was a fact that my scripture was the word of God. If I did believe that my scripture was the word of God, I would have the courtesy to state it in just that way - I believe. Saying "I believe" does not make a Truth any less true. It just prevents alternate views from being any more false.

You do make a lot of declarations and ask a lot of questions. These invite discussion.


- Scott

 

Re: Evil

Posted by rayww on September 30, 2006, at 12:18:45

In reply to Re: Evil, posted by SLS on September 30, 2006, at 11:57:19

> It seems to me that many religions around the world have arrived at similar belief systems despite not having had contact with each other. For this, I believe that there is a natural spirit.

<<I believe the same, call it a natural spirit or God, whatever it is has introduced truth to all people in both eastern, and western civilizations.

>
> > Because there are so many different spiritual paths with some leading toward good, others toward evil, and still others leading nowhere, you would tend to believe there must be good and evil spirit as well.
>
> You consider a path towards evil a spiritual path.
>
> This is where you and I differ. I hope you have in your heart and mind enough room that someone should have a belief different from yours. I believe that there is only one God and only one Spirit. It is Good.

<<<Of course I allow you your own belief. How could I do otherwise?


> Do you feel that I am lofty for presenting beliefs that are different from yours?

<<<<Certainly not my friend. I'm glad you had the courage to present them.

>
> > I will figure out for myself whether evil and good exist.
>
> You already have.

<<<<<Yes. I have. That was the question posed in this thread, and the invitation for opinions to be shared.

>

<<<You have the right to believe and share your truth, and isn't it possible that even by not knowing one another we can somehow discovered that "natural spirit" in our similarities?

>
> You do make a lot of declarations and ask a lot of questions. These invite discussion.


<<<<Is there anything wrong with discussion?
>
>
> - Scott
>
>


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