Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 366672

Shown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.


Mahatma Gandhi

Posted by Jai Narayan on July 15, 2004, at 19:47:10

Mahatma Gandhi was asked by a reporter, "Sir, when do you take a vacation?" Gandhi replied, "I’m on vacation everyday!"

Each Monday, Gandhi took the day in silence to commune with God. Nothing could make him speak. Even when he was arrested he wrote instructions to his followers, but he did not speak. Gandhi practiced forgiveness. In South Africa, he was stabbed by a would be assassin. Gandhi said he would not take legal action against this man but sent him only love and the man became his follower.
"Let us be the change we want to see." Gandhi

I find this man inspiring. That I could be more like him every day.
Sat Nam
Jai Narayan


Re: Mahatma Gandhi

Posted by Dena on July 17, 2004, at 10:31:44

In reply to Mahatma Gandhi, posted by Jai Narayan on July 15, 2004, at 19:47:10

Your post about Ghandi reminded me of something I heard attributed to him a while ago.

He visited this country, and said he'd done so to learn more about Jesus, whom he admired.

He left this country with the following conclusion: "I very much like your Jesus, but I don't much like your Christians."

As a Christian, I feel the wound of that indictment. And I understand it all too well. I've personally been severely injured by others who call themselves Christians, and I've seen the pain inflicted on others as well.

Just recently, we were told to leave our church and our denomination, even though my husband was ordained in it. We're in the thick of the pain right now. All because I dared to point out some things that were wrong within the church "system" - people were being spiritually abused, and I spoke up. They rallied to protect the system, but I was expendible. In fact, I became the problem, and so they sacrificed my husband in order to get rid of me. They've slandered me publically, and horribly defaced my reputation and integrity. They imagined that my husband would choose his ministry over his wife, but they vastly underestimated his love for me. Plus, he knows the truth about me, as does God Himself.

All this to say, I am well aware of how many (not all) who call themselves "Christians" do not in fact actually follow Christ.

But I won't let this taint Jesus Christ Himself! He is above reproach, and those who know and love Him know what He expects of His followers: love in words, actions and motivation. Nothing less.

May we all search like Ghandi did for the good in Jesus. But may we not allow misguided people who hide behind His name to sully HIS reputation.



Posted by Jai Narayan on July 17, 2004, at 13:05:38

In reply to Re: Mahatma Gandhi, posted by Dena on July 17, 2004, at 10:31:44

What an intense experience. I am so sorry you had to go through that.
So what happened next? Are you in another chruch? Did you get support from friends?

One of the things I like best about Gandhi was his gentleness.
I am so interested in combining the energy of my heart and mind to create a quiet approach to life.
Holding life with grace and ease.

All my life I have been a rather bold warrior...defending the rights of others.

Now I'd like to be quiet and gentle.
The soft approach.


There is lift in opposition » Dena

Posted by rayww on July 17, 2004, at 21:25:08

In reply to Re: Mahatma Gandhi, posted by Dena on July 17, 2004, at 10:31:44

I have much respect for Mahatma Gandhi, and certainly appreciate the two quotes in this thread. But there is another idea (not from Gandhi) that may bring comfort in your struggles that says, "there is lift in opposition".

(taken from a talk by Russell M. Nelson in 1997)
"Early in our married life when Sister Nelson and I lived in Minneapolis, we decided to enjoy a free afternoon with our two-year-old daughter. We went to one of Minnesota’s many beautiful lakes and rented a small boat. After rowing far from shore, we stopped to relax and enjoy the tranquil scene. Suddenly, our little toddler lifted one leg out of the boat and started to go overboard, exclaiming, “Time to get out, Daddy!”

Quickly we caught her and explained, “No, dear, it’s not time to get out; we must stay in the boat until it brings us safely back to land.” Only with considerable persuasion did we succeed in convincing her that leaving the boat early would have led to disaster.

Children are prone to do such dangerous things simply because they have not acquired the wisdom their parents have. Similarly, we as children of our Heavenly Father may foolishly want to get “out of the boat” before we arrive at destinations He would like us to reach. The Lord teaches over and over that we are to endure to the end. This is a dominant theme of the scriptures. One example may serve to represent many passages that convey a similar message:

“Blessed are they who shall seek to bring forth my Zion … , for they shall have the gift and the power of the Holy Ghost; and if they endure unto the end they shall be lifted up at the last day, and shall be saved in the everlasting kingdom of the Lamb.”

Blessings bestowed by God are always predicated upon obedience to law. Applied to my analogy, we are first to get “on the boat” with Him. Then we are to stay with Him. And if we don’t get “out of the boat” before we should, we shall reach His kingdom, where we will be lifted up to eternal life.

The term “lifted up” relates to a physical law that can be illustrated by a simple demonstration. I will use a spool of thread and blow into the axial hole of the spool. The force of my breath will move a piece of tissue paper away from me. Next I will take an ordinary card and a straight pin. I will place the pin through the card. With the pin in the hole of the spool, I will hold the card close to the spool. I will again blow into the hole of the spool. As I blow, I will let go of the card so that it can respond to physical forces. Before I proceed, would you like to predict what will happen? Will I blow the card away from me, or will the card be lifted up toward me? Are you ready? [Elder Nelson demonstrates that blowing down the axial hole of the spool lifts the card up toward the spool.]

Did you notice? As long as I had sufficient breath, the card was lifted up. But when I could endure no longer, the card fell. When my breath gave out, the opposing force of gravity prevailed. If my energy could have endured, the card would have been lifted up indefinitely.

Energy is always required to provide lift over opposing forces. These same laws apply in our personal lives. Whenever an undertaking is begun, both the energy and the will to endure are essential. The winner of a five-kilometer race is declared at the end of five kilometers, not at one or two. If you board a bus to Boston, you don’t get off at Burlington. If you want to gain an education, you don’t drop out along the way—just as you don’t pay to dine at an elegant restaurant only to walk away after sampling the salad.

Whatever your work may be, endure at the beginning, endure through opposing forces along the way, and endure to the end. Any job must be completed before you can enjoy the result for which you are working. So wrote the poet:

Stick to your task till it sticks to you;
Beginners are many, but enders are few.
Honor, power, place, and praise
Will always come to the one who stays.

Stick to your task till it sticks to you;
Bend at it, sweat at it, smile at it too;
For out of the bend and the sweat and the smile
Will come life’s victories, after awhile. 7

Sometimes the need to endure comes when facing a physical challenge. Anyone afflicted with a serious illness or with the infirmities of age hopes to be able to endure to the end of such trials. Most often, intense physical challenges are accompanied by spiritual challenges as well.

The Lord’s ultimate concern is for the salvation and exaltation of each individual soul. What if the Apostle Paul’s conversion had not been enduring? He never would have testified as he did at the end of his ministry: “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith.”

What if Jesus had wavered in His commitment to do His Father’s will? His Atonement would not have been accomplished. The dead would not be resurrected. The blessings of immortality and eternal life would not be. But Jesus did endure. During His final hour, Jesus prayed to His Father, saying, “I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.”

Early in His mortal ministry, Jesus became concerned about the commitment of His followers. He had just fed the 5,000, then had taught them the doctrines of the kingdom. But some had murmured, “This is an hard saying; who can hear it?” Even after He had fed them, many lacked the faith to endure with Him. He turned to the Twelve and said, “Will ye also go away?

“Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord … thou hast the words of eternal life.

“And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Peter’s answer defines the real core of commitment. When we know without a doubt that Jesus is the Christ, we will want to stay with Him. When we are surely converted, the power to endure is ours.

This power to endure is critical in those two most important relationships we enter into in life. One is marriage; the other is membership in the Lord’s Church. These are also unique in that they are both covenant—not contractual—relationships.

Marriage.......and family ties involve covenant relationships. They cannot be regarded casually. With divorce rates escalating throughout the world today, it is apparent that many spouses are failing to endure to the end of their commitments to each other. And some .... marriages fail because a husband forgets that his highest and most important ... duty is to honor and sustain his wife. The best thing that a father can do for his children is to “love their mother.”

.... “Magnify your [wife],” he said, “and in so doing you will magnify yourself.” To his profound advice we might couple the timeless counsel of Paul, who said, “Let every one of you … love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.” Enduring love provides enduring lift through life’s trials. An enduring marriage results when both husband and wife regard their union as one of the two most important commitments they will ever make.

The other commitment of everlasting consequence is to the Lord. Unfortunately, some souls make a covenant with God—signified by the sacred ordinance of baptism—without a heartfelt commitment to endure with Him.....

The Lord can readily discern between those with superficial signs of activity and those who are deeply rooted in... Church. This Jesus taught in the parable of the sower. He observed that some “have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word’s sake, immediately they are offended.”

Loyalty to the Lord carries an obligation of loyalty to those called by the Lord to lead His Church. He has empowered that men be ordained to speak in His holy name. As they guide His unsinkable boat safely toward the shore of salvation, we would do well to stay on board with them. “No waters can swallow the ship where lies / The Master of ocean and earth and skies.”

Nevertheless, some individuals want to jump “out of the boat” before reaching land. And others, sadly, are persuaded out by companions who insist that they know more about life’s perilous journey than do prophets of the Lord. Problems often arise that are not of your own making. Some of you may innocently find yourselves abandoned by one you trusted. But you will never be forsaken by your Redeemer, who said, “I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say.”

Without a strong commitment to the Lord, an individual is more prone to have a low level of commitment to a spouse. Weak commitments to eternal covenants lead to losses of eternal consequence. Laments later in life are laced with remorse—as expressed in these lines:

For of all sad words of tongue or pen,
The saddest are these: “It might have been!”

We are speaking of the most important of all blessings. The Lord said, “If you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.”

Each of you who really wants to endure to the glorious end that our Heavenly Father has foreseen should firmly establish some personal priorities. With many interests competing for your loyalty, you need to be careful first to stay safely “on the boat.” No one can serve two masters. If Satan can get you to love anything—fun, flirtation, fame, or fortune—more than a spouse or the Lord with whom you have made sacred covenants to endure, the adversary begins to triumph. When faced with such temptations, you will find that strength comes from commitments made well in advance. The Lord said, “Settle this in your hearts, that ye will do the things which I shall teach, and command you.” He declared through His prophet Jeremiah, “I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

When priorities are proper, the power to endure is increased. And when internalized, those priorities will help keep you from “going overboard.” They will protect you from cheating—in marriage, in the Church, and in life.

If you really want to be like the Lord—more than any thing or anyone else—you will remember that your adoration of Jesus is best shown by your emulation of Him. Then you will not allow any other love to become more important than love for your companion, your family, and your Creator. You will govern yourself not by someone else’s set of rules but by revealed principles of truth.

Your responsibility to endure is uniquely yours. But you are never alone. I testify that the lifting power of the Lord can be yours if you will “come unto Christ” and “be perfected in him.” You will “deny yourselves of all ungodliness.” And you will “love God with all your might, mind and strength.”

Dena, I hope you enjoyed this as much as I have over the years, and may you discover lift in your troubles at this time. Take care of you.

This is the end of the thread.

Show another thread

URL of post in thread:

Psycho-Babble Faith | Extras | FAQ

[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,

Script revised: February 4, 2008
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.