Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 291080

Shown: posts 13 to 37 of 37. Go back in thread:

 

Re: While You are blocked... Dena

Posted by NikkiT2 on December 25, 2003, at 17:18:07

In reply to Re: While You are blocked... NikkiT2, posted by Dena on December 25, 2003, at 13:45:34

How about looking at this from another angle.

Say, I were Wiccan.. and I went to a white witch and asked for spells to be cast for you to lose your faith and become a wiccan.

How would you feel about that??

Nikki

 

Re: While You are blocked... NikkiT2

Posted by Dena on December 25, 2003, at 18:10:16

In reply to Re: While You are blocked... Dena, posted by NikkiT2 on December 25, 2003, at 17:18:07

My best friend from high school is a wiccan. She "prays" for me daily. I pray against all hexes, vexes & unsanctified prayers. I have nothing to worry about, because I serve the Creator of the universe. Nothing can supercede His will for me (unless, of course, I take myself out from under his will through my own rebellion - then He'll let me go my own way, though it may break His heart).

Neither you, nor anyone has anything to fear about the prayers of me, or anyone else who is praying to the One who made you, who loves you, & who died for you.

And relax, He won't change you against your will. My prayers for the ones "in the fishbowl" (& I don't believe that I've put you there as yet) are that He'll show you, by loving you, who He is, so that you can make a choice for or against Him knowingly, rather than making such a choice out of ignorance. The choice, as always, is up to you.

I wish you only peace, not harm.

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: While You are blocked... Dena

Posted by NikkiT2 on December 26, 2003, at 6:04:14

In reply to Re: While You are blocked... NikkiT2, posted by Dena on December 25, 2003, at 18:10:16

You're not understanding what I am saying.

I am not scared etc etc.. But I am offended that you can't accept me for who and what I am, without hoping, and asking (via the fishbowl) that I will change.

Every person in the world is equal.. and just because YOU believe one particular thing, it does not mean the rest of us should believe the same.

I believe different things to you.. but I am happy for you to believe what you do. Please show me the respect to believe what I want to believe in, without wanting me to change.

Are you saying that if your Wiccan friend were to start "praying", or making spells, asking that you change your entire belief system, you would be perfectly happy and comfortable with this??

Nikki

 

Re: While You are blocked...

Posted by rayww on December 26, 2003, at 9:30:55

In reply to While You are blocked..., posted by Dena on December 17, 2003, at 18:40:43

>
> I've made friends here, real friends who believe far differently from me. I still love them. I still accept them for who they are, where they are. I leave them in God's hands. I try to speak truth in love. But I can't make anyone believe what I believe - if they don't arrive to the place of belief by His leading, but by my coersion, what's the point? Only He knows how to get them from where they are to where He created them to be.
>

Lucifer's plan to overthrow Free-agency in the pre-existance was to force all people to live according to his will and force all to go to heaven, giving himself all the glory, leaving God and Jesus Christ out of the picture. Force or coersion has no place in God's plan. Satan and his loyal followers were cast out of heaven and are still fighting the war against agency here on earth. You have noticed that as soon as you begin to coerce or succombe, you get sucked in deeper and deeper till you lose almost all control over your choices. The only war ever fought is those fighting for democracy, freedom, and family, against those trying to take it away. Do you know of any other cause for war? Of course, when both sides become blood thirsty for the sake of destruction and power only. In that case Satan wins from both fronts.

I think it is important to understand who Satan is, and what his tactics are so when we fall into some of those tendencies, we can recognize it and quickly back away.

He lies, cheats, steals, destroys, forces, he is a coward, will always back down from truth and righteousness. He pouts and carries on when we overcome him. He throws fits and has temper tantrums. He is contensious, always throwing a wedge into otherwise pleasant situations.

What is my point here Dena? Simply to let us all see that each one of us is vulnerable. No one should ever think they have the perfect solution to another's life. We should pray for one another, and I do appreciate your prayers, but I don't think you should assume that your Christian belief is the only one with power to save others.

God wants to save everyone, and he does it in his own way and in his own time. There is a spot on earth for everyone and every belief. Each is on his own path. God accepts every one where they are, and waits for us to accept him. Once we accept him, and recognize his path, he leads us home.

We can teach and lead and try all we want, but we must not try to coerce or force anyone to adopt our belief. I'm a Mormon, and yes, we send missionaries, but they are seeking out those who are prepared, not going out in force.

Christians believe that Mormons follow Satan, thinking he is Jesus Christ. Again, if we understand the characteristics of both Satan and God, and feel the direction we are being attracted toward, it is very obvious. No one should ever try to say to someone who testifies of Christ, they have been deceived.

No one should say to a wiccan or a Jehova's witness, or a catholic or a Mormon. We should allow all men their own belief, but keep teaching, as there is good to be found in all, but not all to be found is good. Understanding and wisdom is of God, not Satan. It is God who opens our hearts and minds to understanding. Satan who closes it. Satan wants to narrow our focus to our own carnal pleasure, and uses addiction, sensation, false counterfeit feelings. We all battle these things. No one is exempt, but thanks to God who is more powerful than Satan, once we put our trust in him and him only, we can overcome whatever we choose. Key word, "choose". God will force or coerce no one. Neither should we, it only gets us trouble. Trouble in relationships at home, and out. Same ole same old. The real battle goes on. But there are daily victories, moment by moment, and that's all that really matters in life.

As far as I'm concerned, I appreciate your prayers. There have been times when they have been needed, and received. But, please be careful what you pray for. I don't want to change my belief, I'm happy in it, but I do want to breeze past New Years Eve, the anniversary of my father's death, so please pray for that.

Happy New Year my dear friend.

 

Re: While You are blocked... NikkiT2

Posted by Dena on December 26, 2003, at 9:48:17

In reply to Re: While You are blocked... Dena, posted by NikkiT2 on December 26, 2003, at 6:04:14

Dear Nikki -

How on earth can any of us tell anyone else what they're permitted to think or pray? Each of us has complete freedom to think the thoughts we desire, and to pray as we're led. It's not something that can be monitored (there aren't any thought police, thank God, & prayer is a very personal practice - no one else's business really).

You also have the freedom to be offended by what others may think or pray, but why waste your time being offended?

I'm not praying for you, or anyone else to change. That's not my business, I don't even know you. My prayers are an act of obedience to God. He tells me, directly & consisely, that I am to spread the gospel to the outermost reaches of this world; He doesn't say to tell only those who won't be offended. He also tells me to pray for all those I come in contact with, to pray for their salvation, to pray that His will be done in their lives. He doesn't tell me to get their "permission" first. Are you asking me to obey you, rather than God? Are you asking me to defy a direct commandment from God? I would hope not - that would be a rather presumptive thing to do.

Only God truly knows your heart, not me, not even you. We can easily fool ourselves about what's deep inside of us, but God sees the deepest reaches of our hearts - He knows us because He made us -- He has a plan for each of us, a plan that's for our highest good, beyond what we can comprehend for ourselves. He's the only one who knows how we need to change, & the only one with the power to bring about that change ... but He'll only do it with your cooperative permission - He will NEVER override your will. He restpects the free will of each individual, so much so that He'll allow you to reject Him & His plan for you if you choose. He lets each of us choose our own way, even if that way leads to our own destruction.

Still ... for reasons that I don't completely understand, God tells those of us who believe in & serve Him to pray for the salvation of others. It's not as though He's powerless without us praying, because He's not dependent upon anything or anyone. But He invites us to be part of the process of bringing the ones He created & loves into His kingdom. I don't pretend to know how it works, but I know that my obedience to pray also blesses me, even if the ones I'm praying for insist on rejecting Him in favor of their own way.

Of course every person in the world is equal. And everyone has the equal opportunity to accept or reject God's plan for them. This isn't "my" plan, or "my" beliefs that I'm "foisting onto others". This is God's plan, as laid out in the Bible, plainly & simply spelled out for anyone to read for themselves. You can still choose your own way. God will let you, He won't force you, regardless of what I or anyone else may be praying.

I'm praying that God's will be done, that His love will penetrate the hearts of those who don't yet know Him. The hearts that He Himself designed to receive & return that love - the hearts that are restless until they find Him, the One who made them. I pray that He will woo them with His love, that they will find out who He truly is, & who they were truly meant to be, that they will find fulfillment in an intimate, real relationship with the One who loves them most perfectly, just as they are.

This isn't about joining a particular religion, going to a particular church, or changing ourselves. It's about finding God. I am praying that each person I come in contact with truly finds God.

Is that really so offensive?

I respect your right to believe whatever you choose to believe. You may pray however you wish, for me, for anyone you desire. Or to not pray, as you desire.

I pray because I am compelled to, out of obedient love to God, & for the love of others.

For me to not pray would be to sin against God. Is that what you're asking me to do? If so, I must choose to obey God rather than to obey your wishes.

Ironically, you weren't one of the ones I was praying for, since you hadn't "crossed my path" before. Now, after our conversation, you have crossed my path, & if God lays you upon my heart to pray for you, I will choose to obey Him.

But you can choose to go your own way. You always have that right. Just as I have the right to pray how I'm led to.

You asked about my wiccan friend. She continues to pray for me, that I will become as she is. She tells me so. My happiness & comfort comes, not from having others think & pray as I want them to, but in trusting in God, who is able to protect me from all things that come against me. I have the security of knowing that everything that comes to me - even the seemingly negative things - have come through Him first. He only allows the things that will strengthen me, cause me to grow (which includes suffering), & to become closer to Him. All I have to do is to continue to trust Him, rather than my own perspective. It's hard at times, but He is ultimately trustworthy.

I regret that you feel offended - that wasn't ever my intention, but I must obey God over all else.

I wish you peace, & most of all to know the One who knows you best.

Shalom, Dena

 

The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness

Posted by Dena on December 26, 2003, at 10:43:53

In reply to Re: While You are blocked..., posted by rayww on December 26, 2003, at 9:30:55

Hello, my friend Rayww.

Apparently, we were writing simultaneously.

I agree with much of your post, but not all, but you already knew that.


I'm going to write a separate, new post about this topic.

It may be my last.

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness

Posted by Dena on December 26, 2003, at 22:10:26

In reply to The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness, posted by Dena on December 26, 2003, at 10:43:53

Oops - I just realized that the subject line of my last post didn't make any sense. I had started to write something that was sure to get me blocked, but then thought better of it.

I censored myself, so that others wouldn't have to.

However, I do plan to post something a bit deeper later on, when the time is right.

Anyway, Rayww, the subject line was not a reflection on you or your previous post. Just from the depths of my own soul...

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness Dena

Posted by rayww on December 27, 2003, at 10:16:43

In reply to Re: The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness, posted by Dena on December 26, 2003, at 22:10:26

I'm dying to help create a new title line for you Dena.
Politically Polite PBF,
Politely Political PBF minus the truth.
PBF minus the Politely Political Truth?
OH well, this has nothing to do with politics. Hmmmm. What is another word for politics? "Psycho Babble"
Here it is then. Psycho Truth Babble. A new board where people could post their truth to their heart's desire without fear of the Politically Polite Police. I'd better stop before I "start" to get carried away here.

 

Re: The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness rayww

Posted by Dena on December 27, 2003, at 11:35:10

In reply to Re: The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness Dena, posted by rayww on December 27, 2003, at 10:16:43

Hoo-boy, Rayww, you're really on to something here! Just think of it: a message board for people of faith to post the whole message of their various faiths, without fear of being blocked! wow! People who posted there would have to agree to allow others to speak from their hearts without protesting about being "offended". Just think about how much we could each learn from each other! Rather than just reading dry books about what other faiths believe, we could ask each other point-blank questions, & get it directly! You know, "Everthing you always wanted to know about _________________ (fill in the faith), but were afraid to ask"!!! I'd love it! I'll bet there are others out there who would love it as well. And those who prefer not to read about what others really believe, could remain on this board instead.

Rather than carefully, nebulously, walking on egg-shells about our beliefs, & trying to homoginize our beliefs to fit a wishy-washy, preconceived notion of what's "acceptable" to believe, we could speak truthfully (note: I refer here, not to others' beliefs, but to the parameters of this board). Our beliefs are what they are - why should we pretend otherwise? What exactly is the point? How can we accept or understand what others believe if those beliefs can't be stated without censorship?

What about it, Dr. Bob? Is this board open-minded enough to provide a place where people who want to speak honstly about the whole of their beliefs can do so? Or is this yet another place where political correctness overrules truth?

This is a serious question, not an attempt to be blocked. I'm not speaking against the beliefs of anyone, just asking for the opportunity for us all to be more free about all beliefs.

But I won't hold my breath.

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness Dena

Posted by rayww on December 27, 2003, at 21:28:09

In reply to Re: The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness rayww, posted by Dena on December 27, 2003, at 11:35:10

don't you fear being the only one there?

 

Re: The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness rayww

Posted by Dena on December 27, 2003, at 21:36:51

In reply to Re: The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness Dena, posted by rayww on December 27, 2003, at 21:28:09

Dear Rayww -

You got me! Yes, the thought occurred to me. Sort of like my own surprise party, for myself.

Do you suppose being the only one there would be my worst nightmare, or a dream come true?

Only another mother of bunches of children would understand the elusive beauty of total solitude!

But seriously, Rayww, I know you'd pay me a visit or two on such a board. And I believe that others, those who have tried to be "free" on this board only to get quickly blocked, might return to such a board.

As you can tell, I'm still breathing, not holding my breath...

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: please be supportive Dena

Posted by Dr. Bob on December 28, 2003, at 1:05:17

In reply to Re: The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness rayww, posted by Dena on December 27, 2003, at 11:35:10

> I would think that knowing someone is praying that your life will be blessed beyond your comprehension, & that you'll spend eternity in the presence of God would be a good thing.

I thought someone praying for someone else was a good thing, too, but I guess it does depend on what exactly is being prayed for. Maybe the other person doesn't want to spend eternity in the presence of God? The best present is one you want to give *and* the other person wants to receive...

> freedom of prayer is still permitted.

> God ... tells me, directly & consisely, that I am to spread the gospel to the outermost reaches of this world

The rules here apply only to posting and not to prayer. And I have to remind you that spreading the gospel by posting may be considered not to be supportive...

> Just think of it: a message board for people of faith to post the whole message of their various faiths, without fear of being blocked! wow!

People with other ideas for boards are free to try them out themselves, using, for example, Yahoo! Groups or ezboard...

> Is this board open-minded enough to provide a place where people who want to speak honstly about the whole of their beliefs can do so? Or is this yet another place where political correctness overrules truth?

This is a place where what I consider support sometimes overrules what others consider truth.

Bob

 

Re: Psycho-babble Correctness - Dr. Bob Dena

Posted by Dinah on December 28, 2003, at 8:28:52

In reply to Re: The Truth, Minus Psycho-babble Correctness rayww, posted by Dena on December 27, 2003, at 21:36:51

I visited such a group once. It's now gone, I checked. It was on the Dr. Laura site, a religion discussion group. It was pretty ugly.

I wrote a letter to her at the time asking her to take a look, because someone so positive towards religion couldn't possibly be approving of the sniping from those of various religious groups towards various others. I don't recall whether or not I mailed the letter, but in any case the forum is gone now. I think all her bulletin boards are.

You might want to do a search for other sites.

I often wonder if this board is doomed as a viable place of interaction about faith, because many people of faith are placed in a difficult position trying to do their duty as called upon by their faith, and trying to stay supportive as called upon by Dr. Bob. I sometimes sadly wonder if ecumenicalism is even possible - even at the highest levels of the most organized churches with people trained in diplomacy. I wonder if God is as sad at that thought as I am...

I am somewhat heartened by the spirit of cooperation among religiouis institutions in our own hometown. There are a couple of quasi-sister church/synagogues that work together quite nicely. But I don't suppose they actually discuss theology. Maybe that's the key.

Dr. Bob, how do you see this board working ideally? Is it fulfilling its function?

 

Re: please be supportive Dr. Bob

Posted by Dena on December 28, 2003, at 14:31:13

In reply to Re: please be supportive Dena, posted by Dr. Bob on December 28, 2003, at 1:05:17

Dear Dr. Bob -

Welcome back.

You wrote:

"I thought someone praying for someone else was a good thing, too, but I guess it does depend on what exactly is being prayed for. Maybe the other person doesn't want to spend eternity in the presence of God? The best present is one you want to give *and* the other person wants to receive..."

I was already quite explicitly clear stating that while I am commanded to pray as God tells me (that all who come accross my path will receive salvation, meaning to live with God in eternity, starting here on earth), that each individual retains free will to accept or reject God's plan of salvation. God will not coerce anyone to accept Him. My prayers cannot force anyone to bow their will to God's.

Do you know what my prayers for others might cause? They may cause God to shower down blessings upon the one being prayed for. Blessings of love, love from God, designed to fill up all the restless, empty, disjointed places inside a heart; blessings of healing to the places of woundedness; blessings of security, to give a foundation that's unshakable; blessings of identity, of a sense of belonging, a sense of purpose. And all these blessings may cause the one being prayed for to be thankful to God, & perhaps open their eyes to the reality of God & how much He loves them. And just maybe, because they experience the overwhelming love of God, they may feel the desire to love Him in return. BUT, they still have the free will to say "no" to God, to not love Him back, to say, "thanks for the blessings, but no thanks. Good-bye." And He, still loving them, will let them go. His heart will break over them, but He'll let them go.

My prayers are done out of love & obedience to God, & out of love for others & concern about their futures. I pray because I am commanded to, not because I can expect or guarantee any particular outcome. I am commanded to continuously pray for & love others, even when they reject me, hate me, ridicule me, or harm me. I can show no higher support for others than to love them enough to pray for them.

I repeat, each person is guaranteed free choice - this is a gift given by God- it's not our right, it's a gift. He could have forced us to love Him, but He loved us too much for that. So He gave us each free will; if we return that love to Him, we receive certain consequences. If we choose to reject Him & His love, there are other certain consequences.

I will continue to pray as God tells me to. Each of you is able to pray as you're led to.

The perfect gift can only be given by the perfect Giver, who is God. We each have the ability to take that gift & "return to sender".

Your choice.

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: Psycho-babble Correctness - Dr. Bob

Posted by NikkiT2 on December 28, 2003, at 15:21:12

In reply to Re: Psycho-babble Correctness - Dr. Bob Dena, posted by Dinah on December 28, 2003, at 8:28:52

I can see a way that religions coul dbe openly discussed here. I know I have asked questions here regarding certian aspects of religions that I wanted to know views on with no problems.

The thing is, not to force your beliefs is all. It is easy to say "I believe that the gospel should be spread", without actualy gospelising (is that a word??!).. I find religion a fascinating area, I really.. I could never ever condemn any one religion, though I don't have the beliefs in them - because, after all, there is the possibility I'm wrong!! ;)

I don't think I really *believe* in anything.. I like the philosophies of Buddhism best of them, and its the religion that interests me most at this point in my life. I spent much of my teens at a protestant church.. not through parental force (neither were church goers) but through my own choice (and none of my friends knew at all! It would NOT have been cool!). I undertook a year of weekly classes before becoming confirmed, so I have studied the bible a bit. I just don't like alot of the lessons the bible tells me, and I could never believe in God.

But, the on thing in life that upsets me, and pushes me away, is being told that I should be a certain way. I like to be given the information, I told to be told what a person gets from their religion and hwy that have followed that path, but I don't want to be told that that is the way I should be following.

I hope this makes people understand me better.

Nikki

 

Re: other faith forums

Posted by tabitha on December 28, 2003, at 17:31:26

In reply to Re: Psycho-babble Correctness - Dr. Bob, posted by NikkiT2 on December 28, 2003, at 15:21:12

The beliefnet site has forums. I glanced at the rules page and it doesn't appear to have the restrictions on stating beliefs that some find troublesome here.

http://www.beliefnet.org/boards/index.asp

 

Re: other faith forums tabitha

Posted by Dena on December 28, 2003, at 19:17:05

In reply to Re: other faith forums, posted by tabitha on December 28, 2003, at 17:31:26

Dear Tabitha -

Thank you for taking that effort to find another message board for me. I truly do appreciate it. Perhaps I'll check it out.

But, I was led here, to this board, & until I'm led away, I'll continue to do what I've been led to do. To speak truth, where appropriate, & to continue to pray.

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: other faith forums Dena

Posted by tabitha on December 28, 2003, at 19:29:33

In reply to Re: other faith forums tabitha, posted by Dena on December 28, 2003, at 19:17:05

Dena, I hope you didn't think that was my way of telling you (or anyone) to leave PB Faith-- it wasn't. I read the Beliefnet site and noticed it had forums. Just thought I'd offer the info in case anyone wanted to check it out.

 

Re: other faith forums tabitha

Posted by Dena on December 28, 2003, at 19:46:25

In reply to Re: other faith forums Dena, posted by tabitha on December 28, 2003, at 19:29:33

It's ok, Tabitha. I didn't take it as a "bon voyage". I realized it was a generous gesture on your part to give me another option. Everything I've read from you shows me that you're a kind, genuine person. I wasn't offended in the least. Be at peace!

Shalom, Dena

 

the truth

Posted by Jai Narayan on December 29, 2003, at 19:56:52

In reply to Re: other faith forums tabitha, posted by Dena on December 28, 2003, at 19:17:05

> But, I was led here, to this board, & until I'm led away, I'll continue to do what I've been led to do. To speak truth,
< What is the truth? Is there only one truth? What is this God? Is there only one God? I guess that's the hitch...there are many faiths & beliefs and every one of them is the truth to someone. Sometimes there are many God's. Not just one Creator....but many. No one has the only truth, god or belief. Your prayers are different from mine...no one is better... just different. I think where it becomes sticky is where it **looks like** you are saying you have the corner on the Truth & the God.
IMHO


 

Re: the truth Jai Narayan

Posted by Dena on December 29, 2003, at 20:39:34

In reply to the truth, posted by Jai Narayan on December 29, 2003, at 19:56:52

Of course I don't have a corner on the market of truth. My opinion is just that - one of many billions of opinions.

But it's not my opinion, or your opinion, or any of the other billions of opinions that counts, is it?

Do opinions create reality? Do opinions create truth?

Or is truth just truth, regardless of what anyone believes?

If a person believes a lie, & believes it with all their heart, with the depth of sincerity, will that make the lie become truth? Or will the individual just be deceived about it?

You say that there are many gods, many creators. You're welcome to your opinion, of course. But does your saying it make it true? Or does it just make it your opinion?

If truth is objective, rather than relative, does reality change because someone believes it is relative? Does it change because a million people declare it to be relative?

If a million people declare that gravity is relative, that it only applies to them if they choose to believe it, will that keep them from crashing to the ground if they jump out of a window?

What if truth is truth, regardless of whatever anyone believes? What if there is only one God? What if He created everything that exists? What if He gets to make up reality rather than being dictated to by a million varying opinions? Would a million declaring that they don't believe He exists alter reality or alter His nature? Would one opinion alter that truth, if indeed truth is truth?

If there's room for accepting the possibility that there are many gods, & many creators, is there not also room for the possibility that there is only one God, & only One Creator?

Or are some possibilities more acceptable than others?

There are so many possibilities ... can they all simultaneously be true?

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: difficult position

Posted by Dr. Bob on December 30, 2003, at 10:47:44

In reply to Re: Psycho-babble Correctness - Dr. Bob Dena, posted by Dinah on December 28, 2003, at 8:28:52

> I often wonder if this board is doomed as a viable place of interaction about faith, because many people of faith are placed in a difficult position trying to do their duty as called upon by their faith, and trying to stay supportive as called upon by Dr. Bob.

Maybe. But how about other faiths?

> Dr. Bob, how do you see this board working ideally? Is it fulfilling its function?

Ideally, well, people of faith would support each other? Which I do think happens...

Bob

 

Re: the truth

Posted by Jai Narayan on December 30, 2003, at 20:03:20

In reply to Re: the truth Jai Narayan, posted by Dena on December 29, 2003, at 20:39:34

> Of course I don't have a corner on the market of truth. My opinion is just that - one of many billions of opinions.
< I am so glad you say that.
> But it's not my opinion, or your opinion, or any of the other billions of opinions that counts, is it?
<yes in fact people have many beliefs that support their lives on this planet and I think that makes it important.
> Do opinions create reality? Do opinions create truth?
<You are using your logic not mine in this question. I never said anything about opinions.
> Or is truth just truth, regardless of what anyone believes?
<I used to believe in the ultimate truth but I am so much older now and I can see for me that was a limited view.
> You say that there are many gods, many creators. You're welcome to your opinion, of course.
< thank you for being so gracious.
> But does your saying it make it true? Or does it just make it your opinion?
<It's not an opinion is an observation of the world.
> If truth is objective
<why would truth be objective? How about subjective?
> If a million people declare that gravity is relative, that it only applies to them if they choose to believe it, will that keep them from crashing to the ground if they jump out of a window?
< I'm sorry I can't make sense out of this example.
>
> What if truth is truth, regardless of whatever anyone believes?
< I know I used to believe in an ultimate TRUTH but time and living has changed my view.
> What if there is only one God?
<what is there isn't?
> If there's room for accepting the possibility that there are many gods, & many creators, is there not also room for the possibility that there is only one God, & only One Creator?
< I think that depends on the individual and their personal faith.
> Or are some possibilities more acceptable than others?
<I don't know what do you think?
> There are so many possibilities ... can they all simultaneously be true?
<well, why not?

 

Re: the truth Jai Narayan

Posted by Dena on December 30, 2003, at 20:33:08

In reply to Re: the truth, posted by Jai Narayan on December 30, 2003, at 20:03:20

It would seem you're determined to argue. You'll have to do so alone.

I stated my beliefs. I pondered the possibilities. I didn't negate or belittle your position, or your faith.

However, you show little tolerance for my beliefs, such as when you stated: "I used to believe in the ultimate truth but I am so much older now and I can see for me that was a limited view."

Am I to infer that my beliefs are immature compared to yours? That my beliefs are limited compared to yours?

I also refrained from using sarcasm, which has already been determined by Dr. Bob to be unsupportive of others. However, you decided to use sarcasm in your response to me when you responded to my statement that you have the right to believe whatever you choose, "thank you for being so gracious."

It seems clear to me that by resorting to sarcasm, & by implying my beliefs are inferior to your more mature & enlightened ones, you have intended to put me & my faith down.

I certainly feel put down.

I suppose the final verdict is up to Dr. Bob. I've certainly been blocked for doing the same to others.

But as far as arguing further with you, I choose not to. If you post to me in the future with what appears to be an invitation to argue, I will decline to respond.

Shalom, Dena


 

Re: blocked for 8 weeks Dena

Posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2003, at 10:07:35

In reply to Re: the truth Jai Narayan, posted by Dena on December 30, 2003, at 20:33:08

> you show little tolerance for my beliefs

> by implying my beliefs are inferior to your more mature & enlightened ones, you have intended to put me & my faith down.

Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused. Sorry, but I've asked you to be civil before, so I'm going to block you from posting for another 8 weeks.

> you stated: "I used to believe in the ultimate truth but I am so much older now and I can see for me that was a limited view."

Well, she did say "for me"...

> I certainly feel put down.

It does tend to be more civil to talk about how you feel using I-statements like that...

> But as far as arguing further with you, I choose not to.

Maybe next time try to choose that sooner? Best wishes,

Bob


This is the end of the thread.


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Faith | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.