Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 258696

Shown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

God and healing

Posted by rayww on September 10, 2003, at 10:42:39

If we are intended to use our whole selves to heal, how important is it to have a true understanding of who we are, what our relationship to our divine creator is, and what lies ahead? The four basic questions: Who am I? Where did I come from? Why am I here? Where do I go after I leave this life?

This basic understanding is like the rigid arch support. It may be difficult to walk in at first, but with patience and effort alignment will happen, and a lot of other healing things will fall into place.

There are many differing beliefs about the nature of God and mission of Jesus Christ. I believe differently than you, and you believe differently than me. But no matter what we believe, our belief cannot alter truth.

I do not believe that simply saying "I Believe" and going through the moment of accepting Jesus Christ will release us from sin and save us. I believe repentance takes effort, and that the initial moment of acceptance is just the beginning.

Understanding our nature because of our relationship to God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ gives us license to call upon him (them)for whatever we need. We pray to God the Father through our mediator, Jesus Christ. "Heavenly Father.............In the Name of Jesus Christ, AMEN.) If Christ is God's son, and we are God's spiritual sons and daughters, that makes us all brothers and sisters to eachother and to Christ, even though he remains our Eldest Brother and is now a resurrected God. He helped create the earth and everything herein. God, his father, to whom he prayed often is also God. So, where does this "One" God theory come in? And where was our spirit beginning if not in heaven?

I'm throwing out a lot of questions here, so forgive me if any of these offend your belief. It's just that I receive so much strength and direction and healing from truth. THere has to be a standard bearer somewhere on earth.

God help the 10 Commandments and the US Constitution, upon which this great nation was built, and for which it was preserved. God help the family, even though Satan and all his forces are trying to destroy it from every end before the end destroys them. And God help each one of us. AMEN.

 

Re: God and healing

Posted by HannahW on September 11, 2003, at 12:51:26

In reply to God and healing, posted by rayww on September 10, 2003, at 10:42:39

I really like what you said about regardless of what we believe, it cannot alter the real truth. I couldn't agree more.

I used to be a firm believer in everything I was taught about God and Christianity. About 6 months ago, I found myself immersed in differing thoughts about religion. I was taking an eastern and a western religions class, reading The DaVinci Code by Ron(?) Brown, and The Source by James Michener. I didn't immerse myself deliberately, it just happened!

Suddenly, my faith, which I thought was unshakable, was shaken to the foundation, so that now I don't know WHAT I believe. Everyone is convinced that their religion is the true and correct one, many to the point of being willing to die for it.

Given that the Bible wasn't even written down for hundreds and hundreds of years after many of the stories took place, it seems highly improbable that the stories remained accurate during all of the verbal retelling. (A modern recounting of an event can't be retold more than a couple times before being significantly altered!) And for nearly 1500 years, before the reformation lead by Martin Luther, Catholicism was synonymous with Christianity. Modern Protestantism is based on the ideas of a single human. So if the Bible is likely embellished or inaccurate, what are we to believe?

I think it's unlikely that any of the religions that exist today are the Truth. I'm struggling with this concept, and am not sure which way to turn, or even who to talk to. If I talk to a strong Christian, he will naturally try to pull me to his beliefs, and the same goes for an atheist. Maybe an agnostic would be the best person to help me sort out my thoughts.

Sometimes I catch myself praying and think, "Oh yeah, God (if there is one) probably can't even hear me, or probably doesn't care even if he can hear me." I miss the comfort I used to get by believing that there was Someone out there who is concerned with my welfare.

 

Re: God and healing HannahW

Posted by rayww on September 11, 2003, at 15:32:55

In reply to Re: God and healing, posted by HannahW on September 11, 2003, at 12:51:26

Very well expressed, and I'm sure the thoughts of many. If I may just mention a few things about the Bible and another reason I believe it is the word of God, ,,,, People don't generally get this, but the Book of Mormon is a second witness that the Bible, Old and New Testament, is the word of God and that the Jesus of the old and New TEstament is the Christ, the Son of God. At some future date perhaps we will also have the records of other tribes of Israel, and dig up even more things that absolutely prove the Bible and even the Book of Mormon to be true. But until then, we have to rely on our own faith. In one of our scriptures, it says concerning the various gifts of the spirit, "to some it is given to know, and to others to believe on their words" Isaiah, Ezekiel, David, Abraham, Moses, etc are prophets who knew. They wrote it down and handed it down from one generation to another.

Have you ever visited the Holy Land? Just walking the walk is a witness in and of itself. Incredible experience to visit the holy land.

The Dead Sea Scrolls include earlier versions of biblical text. For the earnest scholar, the information is to be found. The Bible is a collection of records kept by various authors. The following scriptures from the Book of Ezekiel talk about the two records coming together. (stick means book)
http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=stick+of+joseph+judah&scripturesearch_button=Search

The following scripture points out that even back then, the Bible was not appreciated or thanked for. Did the world thank the jews for the bible? No, they persecuted them for not recognizing the Messiah.

http://scriptures.lds.org/2_ne/29

And as far as preserving the Bible, that's pretty much up to God, and I think He has done a mighty good job of it. Imagine, an actual record that had its beginnings at the beginning of time as this earth knows it. Pretty incredible if you ask me.

 

Re: God and healing HannahW

Posted by Dinah on September 12, 2003, at 5:56:02

In reply to Re: God and healing, posted by HannahW on September 11, 2003, at 12:51:26

The Source led me from being a skeptical but reasonably comfortable Christian to being a firm agnostic for years. I had to start from the beginning again when I decided to reconnect with my spirituality when my son was born.

It took years away from my spiritual life, but in the end I'm not sorry. I ended up with a set of beliefs that both my heart and mind are comfortable with.

Everyone's spiritual journey is different, and everyone has to find their own path. For myself, I found it through Jewish inspirational books, particularly those of Rabbi Kushner (who wrote "When Good Things Happen to Bad People"). For others, it would probably be a completely different path.

If you feel a lack, and would like to reconnect spiritually, why don't you browse through the religion and spirituality section of your bookstore and see what arouses your heart? Then you can see if it also can satisfy your mind.

 

Re: God and healing

Posted by rayww on September 12, 2003, at 10:27:51

In reply to Re: God and healing HannahW, posted by Dinah on September 12, 2003, at 5:56:02

....then how does one learn to recognize a false educational idea? Our universities are rampant with them. In Canada we try to keep a balance between teachers of national origin and teachers of other nationalities and foreign philosophies. Entering a university here requires a great ability to sift.

Do you rely upon your spirituality to help you discern truth from error, or your knowledge? Where does wisdom and understanding fit? I would say discernment is a spiritual gift that includes knowledge, understanding, and wisdom. My favorite, most intriguing scripture comes from Proverbs 9:10, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."

Then, wisdom and understanding must be God's knowledge, and to discern truth from error would require spirituality because it would come as inspiration from God. To be able to receive inspiration from God, one must be spiritual. So it behooves each of us to keep our spiritual channels open by following the plan of happiness as set out in the scriptures: Ecclesiastes, Job, 10 commandments, sermon on the mount, and all the rest.

 

Redirect: the Truth

Posted by Dr. Bob on September 12, 2003, at 13:05:20

In reply to Re: God and healing, posted by HannahW on September 11, 2003, at 12:51:26

> I think it's unlikely that any of the religions that exist today are the Truth. I'm struggling with this concept, and am not sure which way to turn, or even who to talk to.

I'm sorry you're struggling, but the idea here is to support religious faith, so I'd like discussions such as the above to be redirected to Psycho-Social-Babble, thanks.

Bob

 

Re: Redirect: the Truth

Posted by HannahW on September 12, 2003, at 18:35:49

In reply to Redirect: the Truth, posted by Dr. Bob on September 12, 2003, at 13:05:20

Sorry, I wasn't aware of the parameters. I hope I didn't offend anyone with my questions.

 

Re: Redirect: the Truth Dr. Bob

Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2003, at 14:03:25

In reply to Redirect: the Truth, posted by Dr. Bob on September 12, 2003, at 13:05:20

Dr. Bob, sometimes I just don't understand your concept of what people of faith might find unsupportive.

A crisis of faith, and trying to struggle past that, is part of many (if not most) people's spiritual journey. And as long as someone hasn't concluded that faith is a total waste of time, I don't see how discussion of the struggle to believe can possibly be seen as nonsupportive to religious belief. If someone is struggling to find their faith again, doesn't that show that they respect and value religious belief?

I'm going to answer Hannah's question below. Because my answer fits better here on the faith board than anywhere else. You can redirect it if you wish.

(And perhaps on the posts that aren't clearly anti-religious you could post a proposed redirect instead, and let the posters decide whether it should indeed be moved to Social. I think you probably have noticed that most people didn't think that Jimi's post on neurology and faith was anti-faith either.)

 

Re: Redirect: the Truth Dinah

Posted by rayww on September 15, 2003, at 10:12:41

In reply to Re: Redirect: the Truth Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2003, at 14:03:25

> Dr. Bob, sometimes I just don't understand your concept of what people of faith might find unsupportive.
>
> A crisis of faith, and trying to struggle past that, is part of many (if not most) people's spiritual journey. And as long as someone hasn't concluded that faith is a total waste of time, I don't see how discussion of the struggle to believe can possibly be seen as nonsupportive to religious belief. If someone is struggling to find their faith again, doesn't that show that they respect and value religious belief?
>
> I'm going to answer Hannah's question below. Because my answer fits better here on the faith board than anywhere else. You can redirect it if you wish.
>
> (And perhaps on the posts that aren't clearly anti-religious you could post a proposed redirect instead, and let the posters decide whether it should indeed be moved to Social. I think you probably have noticed that most people didn't think that Jimi's post on neurology and faith was anti-faith either.)

<<I agree with what you have said Dinah. Maybe I am the one who should have been cautioned. I welcome new posters, and really hate it when they aren't given a chance to figure this site out. Some, like myself, are slow to grasp it.

Whatever happened to the concept that "all things are spiritual to the Lord"?

I see one purpose of this site as helping people discover the spiritual side of life, and sort out the normal from the extreme that is often experienced in the disorders. To discern light from darkness. Real from fake. To get to know their own personal spirit.

What do you see as the purpose and need of this site today, September 15, 2003?

 

Re: Spirituality rayww

Posted by Dinah on September 15, 2003, at 16:56:26

In reply to Re: Redirect: the Truth Dinah, posted by rayww on September 15, 2003, at 10:12:41

Well, I guess I see the purpose of it *today* is to extend a hand someone who is struggling with the loss of faith and wishes to regain it. It's not a good feeling.

Did you ever have a crisis of faith, Ray? I feel that in my faith history my crisis of faith led to a richer belief in the end. I know there is a lot to be said for the simple faith of a child, but I also find great beauty in the mature faith that rises from doubt and experience.

I'm not in an intensely spiritual space myself right now. I'm feeling the sort of detachment that is incompatible with spirituality. So I do understand what you mean about spirituality being linked to our illnesses. I'm not given to intense swings into spirituality. My spirituality is more of the small comforting flame than the roaring fire. I soar gently on the wings of faith, but not to the edges of heaven. And I am frustrated by my inability to call on my faith when I need it most. I seem to need to be in the right frame of mind to feel God's presence, and can't seem to manage to use God's presence to bring me to the proper frame of mind. Although spiritual music sometimes helps a lot, other times it leaves me unmoved.

Have you learned to sustain a steady level of spirituality?

 

Re: Spirituality Dinah

Posted by rayww on September 15, 2003, at 21:07:27

In reply to Re: Spirituality rayww, posted by Dinah on September 15, 2003, at 16:56:26

Nothing steady about me, other than my inconsistancy.

There have been times when I absolutely could not pray. My thoughts would drift off to my own carnal desires and be so overwhelming. I would be praying to man, not to God. Pretty bad. Then a friend or bishop would seem like my personal savior, and my family the enemy. I would feel so deep, grieve so much, and fall into unknown unfamiliar territory. But for some reason, whenever I really needed to I could rally. If not, my DH would cover for me. Some of my most cherrished experiences came during the darkest moments. I've always had sufficient for the day, but at the same time, been seived, and pressed, and tried along the way. Over and over again. I recognize it now. I have just come through a tough few years, but seem to be levelling out now. Here I go again, I trust God, and I trust my friends. For me, the father figure thing is a big one. They're so all one and the same. It's a trust issue. My father betrayed me in death. I push trust to the limit, and go out on a limb to prove it, but trust is something I must have, and I do. When I can feel the spiritual emotion of trust, I can trust God, but the emotional link stems from people. In my disorder, everything seems backwards. I would say my trust in God stems from people, but in reality, my trust in people stems from God.

And, lets face it women, our husbands, as dear as they are, who know us better than anyone else on earth, can sometimes make us feel like (you finish it). Not exactly the perfect father figure we need at times.

 

Re: what people of faith might find unsupportive

Posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2003, at 21:11:32

In reply to Re: Redirect: the Truth Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2003, at 14:03:25

> Dr. Bob, sometimes I just don't understand your concept of what people of faith might find unsupportive.

Sometimes I'm not sure myself...

> > I think it's unlikely that any of the religions that exist today are the Truth. I'm struggling with this concept, and am not sure which way to turn, or even who to talk to.
>
> A crisis of faith, and trying to struggle past that, is part of many (if not most) people's spiritual journey. And as long as someone hasn't concluded that faith is a total waste of time, I don't see how discussion of the struggle to believe can possibly be seen as nonsupportive to religious belief. If someone is struggling to find their faith again, doesn't that show that they respect and value religious belief?

Not that this was necessarily correct, but it wasn't clear to me that her goal was to find her faith again, and I thought people who did think their religions were the Truth might not feel supported...

Bob

 

Just My 2 Cents' Worth, as a Person of Faith...

Posted by Dena on September 16, 2003, at 19:25:36

In reply to Re: what people of faith might find unsupportive, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2003, at 21:11:32

Dear All -

I assume it's been established that I am a "person of faith", as are many others here on this board. I feel prompted to speak up as such - & I only speak for myself, not for any other person of faith...

When I read Hannah's post, I received it at face-value. She's a person who's become discouraged about faith - she's been hurt & she's been plagued with doubts. My heart went out to her, because I've been there.

To me, this is just the flip-side of faith. It's a "crisis of faith" that almost every person who has faith experiences at one time or another. It's the responsibility & the priviledge of those of us with faith to welcome her, to encourage her to share her doubts, to let her know that we receive her, we understand her, we empathize with her.

Where else would she go?

I'm reminded of the man who approached Jesus with a request to heal his daughter. Jesus asked him, "Do you believe?" The man answered honestly, "I believe. Help my unbelief!"

I'm so glad he answered that way, to let me know it's normal & expected to have unbelief at times. And guess what? Jesus healed the man's daughter, & never condemned the man for expressing the honesty of his unbelief.

Hannah, you're welcome here. I applaud you for having the courage to express your doubts & unbelief! You're human, just like the rest of us. Keep posting, keep sharing who you are, doubts & all. I pray that you, too, will be healed, despite your ubelief.

Shalom, Dena

P.S. Dr. Bob - I appreciate your desire to help those of us with faith to feel supported by others. But, perhaps it would be more beneficial for all of us to be able to express our beliefs honestly. Civilly, of course, but without censure. I wouldn't be offended to hear someone say that they thought my beliefs were wrong. They would have the right to have & express such an idea. I wouldn't despise them or take it personally. I just wish we could all receive from each other as mature adults, & have the freedom to speak what we believe openly. I personally don't believe that "walking on eggshells" in order to post is psychologically helpful.

Oops - I guess I gave my 4 cents' worth!

 

Redirect: Just My 2 Cents' Worth

Posted by Dr. Bob on September 17, 2003, at 23:59:20

In reply to Just My 2 Cents' Worth, as a Person of Faith..., posted by Dena on September 16, 2003, at 19:25:36

> To me, this is just the flip-side of faith. It's a "crisis of faith" that almost every person who has faith experiences at one time or another. It's the responsibility & the priviledge of those of us with faith to welcome her, to encourage her to share her doubts, to let her know that we receive her, we understand her, we empathize with her...

This is a policy issue, so I'd like to redirect discussion of it to Psycho-Babble Administration. Here's a link:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030808/msgs/261219.html

Thanks,

Bob

 

Re: God and healing

Posted by Speed on September 18, 2003, at 17:40:41

In reply to Re: God and healing, posted by HannahW on September 11, 2003, at 12:51:26

The Bible was inspired by God and he doesn't make mistakes. Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the father except by me.
Remember the apostle Paul warned of the false teachers who would come our way. If you can't believe in the word of God, there is no hope. Do not put your trust in anyone but Jesus Christ, who died for you!
Prayers, Ron

 

Re: please be supportive Speed

Posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2003, at 19:29:33

In reply to Re: God and healing, posted by Speed on September 18, 2003, at 17:40:41

> If you can't believe in the word of God, there is no hope. Do not put your trust in anyone but Jesus Christ, who died for you!

The idea here is support, so please don't put down the beliefs of others. Sorry, but this may mean not posting some aspects of your own beliefs. Thanks,

Bob

PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.

 

Re: please be supportive

Posted by Speed on September 19, 2003, at 13:41:31

In reply to Re: please be supportive Speed, posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2003, at 19:29:33

It is support Dr. Bob. It is the truth and the only truth. It is Life everlasting truth. It's not my idea, it is the sovern word of God. This is not meant to offend, to take a stand for the truth.
Ron

 

Re: blocked for week

Posted by Dr. Bob on September 19, 2003, at 18:28:25

In reply to Re: please be supportive, posted by Speed on September 19, 2003, at 13:41:31

> It is support Dr. Bob. It is the truth and the only truth... This is not meant to offend, to take a stand for the truth.

I understand that you mean to support and not to offend, but that's not the kind of support this site is for, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.

Bob

 

Re: God and healing

Posted by stjames on September 30, 2003, at 19:24:00

In reply to Re: God and healing, posted by Speed on September 18, 2003, at 17:40:41

he Bible was inspired by God and he doesn't make mistakes.

Then why did your god 1) allow the crucades to happen
2) allow the church to castrate men (castratti) so
they could have high voices for the choir ?

 

Re: please be supportive stjames

Posted by Dr. Bob on September 30, 2003, at 19:46:46

In reply to Re: God and healing, posted by stjames on September 30, 2003, at 19:24:00

> Then why did your god 1) allow the crucades to happen
> 2) allow the church to castrate men (castratti) so
> they could have high voices for the choir ?

Please be supportive of religious faith when you post on this board, thanks.

Bob

PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.

 

Re: please be supportive

Posted by MamaB on October 20, 2003, at 12:58:14

In reply to Re: please be supportive stjames, posted by Dr. Bob on September 30, 2003, at 19:46:46

> > Then why did your god 1) allow the crucades to happen
> > 2) allow the church to castrate men (castratti) so
> > they could have high voices for the choir ?
>
> Please be supportive of religious faith when you post on this board, thanks.
>
> Bob
>
> PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.

St. James,
Since Speed has been blocked I will answer your questions:
The things you mentioned ie the Crusades and castration, were not God's idea. Things such as that come about because we live in a fallen world filled with evil, and Mankind sometimes chooses to sin. Why doesn't God intervene? Rather than intervene God uses man's sinful choices usually to teach us and bring us closer to him. (Besides, if He intervened in every evil He would become a dictorial god which he is not.) After all, He did give mankind freewill and we can use that freewill for evil, or to serve Him.

 

Re: God and healing

Posted by MamaB on October 21, 2003, at 6:38:24

In reply to Re: God and healing HannahW, posted by rayww on September 11, 2003, at 15:32:55

> Very well expressed, and I'm sure the thoughts of many. If I may just mention a few things about the Bible and another reason I believe it is the word of God, ,,,, People don't generally get this, but the Book of Mormon is a second witness that the Bible, Old and New Testament, is the word of God and that the Jesus of the old and New TEstament is the Christ, the Son of God. At some future date perhaps we will also have the records of other tribes of Israel, and dig up even more things that absolutely prove the Bible and even the Book of Mormon to be true. But until then, we have to rely on our own faith. In one of our scriptures, it says concerning the various gifts of the spirit, "to some it is given to know, and to others to believe on their words" Isaiah, Ezekiel, David, Abraham, Moses, etc are prophets who knew. They wrote it down and handed it down from one generation to another.
>
> Have you ever visited the Holy Land? Just walking the walk is a witness in and of itself. Incredible experience to visit the holy land.
>
> The Dead Sea Scrolls include earlier versions of biblical text. For the earnest scholar, the information is to be found. The Bible is a collection of records kept by various authors. The following scriptures from the Book of Ezekiel talk about the two records coming together. (stick means book)
> http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=stick+of+joseph+judah&scripturesearch_button=Search
>
> The following scripture points out that even back then, the Bible was not appreciated or thanked for. Did the world thank the jews for the bible? No, they persecuted them for not recognizing the Messiah.
>
> http://scriptures.lds.org/2_ne/29
>
> And as far as preserving the Bible, that's pretty much up to God, and I think He has done a mighty good job of it. Imagine, an actual record that had its beginnings at the beginning of time as this earth knows it. Pretty incredible if you ask me.


Hi,
You make some excellent points here, however, the Hebrew translation for the word that is used in
Ezekiel means stick, or tree ('er) (phonetic pronuncation, I can't type the Hebrew.)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/1066734454-2906.html

this website is super for that kind or if you ever have questions about the meaning of things Biblical.
You are right about Israel, I lived in Jordan for two years and visited frequently. MB

 

Re: Redirect: the Truth

Posted by tire on October 31, 2003, at 18:48:32

In reply to Redirect: the Truth, posted by Dr. Bob on September 12, 2003, at 13:05:20

Bob,

The only literature that has withstood the test of time is the Bible. It can never be proven false because it is truth. There are no contradictions within it and it continually gives people hope for life. The words which are contained in this book are the very words of the One and Only Infinite God. If you've ever read the Bible cover to cover you will see how awesome it truly is. The Bible contains 66 books, written by over 40 differant authors, over a span of more than a few thousand years and all of it is in perfect harmony. Although Catholics have 73 books in their Bible, none of the added books have held up to the integrity of the other books. The Bible contains thousands of prophecies and every single one of them have come true thus far... No other religion dares to predict the future with such perfection. Great reading materials on this subject are: "A Case for Christ" and "A Case for Faith" (both written by Lee Strobel) "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" and "More Evidence that Demands a Verdict" (both written by Josh McDowell--both of these books are difficult reading but very very in depth concrete evidence to support the Christian Faith).

You may e-mail me if you have any questions. Thank You.

Tim

 

Re: blocked for week tire

Posted by Dr. Bob on October 31, 2003, at 19:06:15

In reply to Re: Redirect: the Truth, posted by tire on October 31, 2003, at 18:48:32

> The only literature that has withstood the test of time is the Bible...

The idea here is support, so please don't put down the beliefs of others. I've asked you this before, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.

Bob

PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.


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