Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 230734

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.


Manic-Depression and Metaphysics

Posted by habbyshabit on June 2, 2003, at 8:07:59

Hey there!

I've been a student of Metaphysics for 30 years. I am also a Medium/Channeler of over 7 years. My introduction to Metaphysics was through Jane Roberts' books and the Seth Material. I've since read many and varied Channeled works. I've also read a bit of academic metaphysics.

I've been diagnosed as manic-depressive since 1975. I have found that the tenets and philosophies of Metaphysics to be useful and beneficial in the ongoing nature of this disorder. I once thought I could "cure" myself, but haven't got there yet!!!! I'm still giving it my best shot though.

Has anyone else found comfort and usefulness in the spiritual and mental beliefs of metaphysical concepts?



Re: Manic-Depression and Metaphysics » habbyshabit

Posted by slinky on June 2, 2003, at 13:04:21

In reply to Manic-Depression and Metaphysics, posted by habbyshabit on June 2, 2003, at 8:07:59


I was reading about metaphysics recently..I am a beginer:-)
When I'm high/euphoric spiritual thinking is easy-- the meaning of life/death becomes obvious :-)
I use my high energy to try and 'cure' myself..but find I get tempted to reach for a perpetual high
I'm using dream sleep ( I sleep alot)have gained a level of being aware that I'm out of my body and controlling my dreams or 'spirit'and finding it far more interesting than reality..whether this is a sad way of living/escaping or not I don't care at the moment..
I'm bipolar also...


Re: Manic-Depression and Metaphysics (nm)

Posted by habbyshabit on June 3, 2003, at 16:50:43

In reply to Re: Manic-Depression and Metaphysics » habbyshabit, posted by slinky on June 2, 2003, at 13:04:21


Re: Manic-Depression and Metaphysics

Posted by habbyshabit on June 3, 2003, at 16:55:08

In reply to Re: Manic-Depression and Metaphysics (nm), posted by habbyshabit on June 3, 2003, at 16:50:43

I'm new at this, Slinky. I wrote a good post and then it didn't appear. Not sure how I blew it. Will right more later. Am out of time now.



Re: Manic-Depression and Metaphysics

Posted by habbyshabit on June 4, 2003, at 23:25:03

In reply to Re: Manic-Depression and Metaphysics, posted by habbyshabit on June 3, 2003, at 16:55:08

Slinky, I know what you mean about feeling more inclined towards spirituality and the deep feeling of "knowing" just how the universe works when floridly manic. I honestly feel there are kernals of truth that can be found in mystical and esoteric religious scriptures from around the world that I have "discovered" while in those profoundly high states. However, the trick is always grounding those realities in everyday life and making those discoveries work in my world.

About your urge to sleep and finding your vivid dreams more fascinating then waking life - well, depression would be a first response to that info.

I am a very vivid dreamer myself and find myself often waking myself from dreams that are not much fun or too real. I'm not sure if this is lucid dreaming or just some conscious realization that I am sleeping and CAN wake up.

I have had one dream in which I died. I have had a number of others where I've approached death, usually in a falling elevator.

Dreams, I feel, can be symbolic or precognitive, but mostly are just chaotic representations of what ever is going on in my world at the time. I have a few that have really been precognitive and any number that have had a profound cathartic impact on my psyche with their symbolism. But mostly I find my dreams to be just a mess of images bound together by themes of the day or week. Uusually emotional themes.

How old are you? I'm 48. What books about metapysics are you reading that are your introduction to the topic?

Thanks for answering my thread.



On Preferring Dreams to Waking...

Posted by fachad on June 12, 2003, at 21:23:56

In reply to Re: Manic-Depression and Metaphysics, posted by habbyshabit on June 4, 2003, at 23:25:03

> About your urge to sleep and finding your vivid dreams more fascinating then waking life...

Thought my life I've had the thought that I preferred sleeping to waking.

H.P. Lovecraft and Jorge Luis Borges both had that theme in many of their stories.

Here's one of my favorite Lovecraft passages, excerpted from "Ex Oblivione":

"When the last days were upon me, and the ugly trifles of existence began to drive me to madness like the small drops of water that torturers let fall ceaselessly upon one spot of their victims body, I loved the irradiate refuge of sleep. In my dreams I found a little of the beauty I had vainly sought in life, and wandered through old gardens and enchanted woods..."

"After a while, as the days of waking became less and less bearable from their greyness and sameness, I would often drift in opiate peace through the valley and the shadowy groves, and wonder how I might seize them for my eternal dwelling-place, so that I need no more crawl back to a dull world stript of interest and new colours..."

Ex Oblivione is a exceptional short story/prose poem, with a terrible and wonderful ending, and can be found here:


Redirect: On Preferring Dreams to Waking...

Posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2003, at 18:42:19

In reply to On Preferring Dreams to Waking..., posted by fachad on June 12, 2003, at 21:23:56

> Thought my life I've had the thought that I preferred sleeping to waking.
> H.P. Lovecraft and Jorge Luis Borges both had that theme in many of their stories...

This board is supposed to focus on religious faith, so I'd like other follow-ups to be redirected. Since you mentioned stories, how about PBB?



Emotional Pain/Higher Realms

Posted by Temmie on June 26, 2003, at 22:14:05

In reply to Manic-Depression and Metaphysics, posted by habbyshabit on June 2, 2003, at 8:07:59

Maybe this is a good place for me to hang out for awhile. I am lonely ... and ... the idea of striking up a conversation here is appealing -- so -- on the subject of metaphysics -- I have dabbled here and there, and am also, unfortunately saddled with chronic depression and PTSD. I believe it was the power of prayer and my appeals to the unseen that got me through traumatic events of childhood. I started exploring metaphysics back in the days when the only reading available pertained to occult matters (the 1960s). I had some out-of-body experiences as a teenager, which was something I was attempting to do, at first, but then took a turn -- just occuring, without my setting it up first. You know, I'd wake up, but I'd be up at the ceiling -- screaming, and/or using all my will to move -- but unable to do so.

Anyhow, I also started seeing auras as a teen, met Swami Rama at one point, and was invited to accompany him to study in India ... but I was only 17, and India seemed a long ways away. Now, I wish I had gone. I would have more credibility as a spiritual teacher, and, of course, Swami Rama was a lovely soul. I was just young ... and scared .... And a bit uncertain whether this was my path.

Instead, I ended up joining a New Age teaching and service order, delved into more study of the occult and Christian mysteries (as well as study of the tarot, the Baghavadgita, and Koran, etc.). I had many experiences of the unseen realms, including enhanced abilities with seeing Light, using Light for energy work, seeing angelic beings in meditation, receiving occasional oral messages, and meeting with teachers and unseen others on the otherside during dream time.

I left the Order in the 1970s, and delved back into the secular life. Did some work with gem-elixers in the 1980s ... Spent a lot of money working with a Michael channel ... practiced a bit with automatic writing -- and -- good grief, I saw a post on this site about "abuductions by aliens" earlier today and was disappointed to find it was a joke! Anyhow, in the mid 80's, I began having dreams or experiences on the otherside meeting beings from other realms. Sounds weird, I know, and this was not something I was looking for, dreamed up, or initiated -- it just happened. I don't want to talk too much about it -- it's too rife for ridicule, and the experiences were too personal.

A few years ago I was ordained a priest in a Gnostic Order, and last summer was initiated into what is considered to be a higher step beyond this -- but I'm not doing much spiritual work, other than half-hearted attempts at prayer before sleep each night.

I am not conscious of visits with unseen teachers when I am sleeping. I am not reaching up to connect with them. I'm depressed, and I'm using medication to sleep (which is surely affecting both my memory of and access to higher realms).

I am acquainted with the Seth materials ... I've done quite a bit of reading/reasearh on this, and other paths, including the philosophies of the Pacific Islanders, Native American, Aboriginal peoples, and so on. I refer to "The Urantia Book" from time to time. I've fasted and prayed. I've done all kinds of things, but right now I'm experiencing the very human dillemas of single-parenting, struggling with insufficient finances, saying farewell to my only child who will soon be leaving for school in California, and dealing with aging parents, including my father who has slipped into some kind of horrible, difficult and challenging malaise -- probably representative a mix of Alzeheimers with senility and a manic episode.

Lectures and ranting/raving by my dad over the last several weeks (and especially today) have thrown me off-center, and I wonder/worry when I get wacked-out like this, if I've got mania too. It's been so long now since I've had a bonafide "spiritual experience" (other than that of being a spiritual being having a human experience), that I'm starting to wonder if I didn't make all these things up.

You know, as I do, however, when you experience these things -- they are rock solid and more rooted in the essence of reality than anything one has encountered in human/physical form. At least I hope you do.

Other than that -- what would you like to talk about?

I am feeling cut-off and bereft. I am tired of keeping secret about these things I know of (i.e., playing dumb, and pretending along with everyone else, that "this" is all there is, and this is all we know).

I wonder how to cultivate the connections again -- but from my experience -- making those connections has required intense, ardent, authentic and honest reaching -- and I've been -- well, a bit preoccupied.

How are things going for you? Would love to continue the dialogue with someone who's truly been there/done that/experienced some of the elements of the unseen realms. I am sincere, and hope you are, too.



Re: Emotional Pain/Higher Realms

Posted by Mercury on June 27, 2003, at 15:16:14

In reply to Emotional Pain/Higher Realms, posted by Temmie on June 26, 2003, at 22:14:05

Hi Temmie,

What a wonderfully honest posting. You've inspired me to try some of that honesty too. See what happens.

Today, I went to see a behavioral therapist for the first time, in a very long time. I told him that I needed help quiting smoking and drinking. He gave me some Lexapro, recommended AA and told me to come back in 2 weeks. But I have come here because I am aware that I need more than that. And at the most basic level, this is a spiritual issue which cannot be ignored.

You see, I "woke up" 7 years ago to a wonderful new understanding of life. It was a joyful awakening...sublime and exciting. Yet, I have never really been able to capture and hold that feeling. I regained power over my life, only to loose it again, I've seen angels, only to stop looking for them, I've spoken to God, only to stop listening, I've been inspired and have inspired others, only to loose myself once again in this God damned darkness.

I suppose I should remember that enlightenment is a journey, not a destination. One doesn't just "wake-up" one day and be cured of the world. (as if it was a disease) As long as we're in it, its a part of us. (Boy is that easy to SAY) The problem I'm having is that so much of what I see around me just makes me want to scream in frustration. I have 3 beautiful little boys, with so much joy in their hearts, such capacity for Love and so much potential for growth that the thought of them being swallowed up by a world that generates so much sorrow haunts my every waking moment.

I am so disappointed in humanity that it literally makes me sick. Where I used to see God in the face of everyone I meet, now I see only lost and desperate souls. I still remember who they are, who we are, but it seems that this remembering has made it all so much more difficult. We should know better. We should ALL know better. We are all born with such wonderful gifts. To squander them so quickly and needlessly is almost more than my heart can bare.

September 11th was the day I stopped trying to fight it. It was the day I decided to give up on changing things through love, and embraced force as necessary evil. I said to hell with the world, if people are going to rain destruction down on each other then F*ck them!...we'll just have to get them, before they get us.

It was poison.

Which I drank by the bottle. And smoked by the pack. It was a death sentence for my higher self which I gleefully accepted because it too had failed me so miserably. Let it die I said. Its not doing anyone any good anyway.

So there you have it. I'm a fallen Angel...again.

Perhaps we might emerge once again to feel the warm light of God's grace on our faces. That is my choice...and my prayer for today and all the days of my life. In the meantime, its nice to meet you Temmie.

I'd be happy to be your friend.

One Love,


Mercury, et. al.

Posted by Temmie on June 27, 2003, at 17:31:39

In reply to Re: Emotional Pain/Higher Realms, posted by Mercury on June 27, 2003, at 15:16:14

Dear Mercury,

Thank you for writing. Let’s see if we can keep the conversation going. Beautiful name you’ve chosen for yourself by the way – and, yes, I understand what you’re talking about. In the end, like all snap-phrases, there’s a lot of truth in the cliche about “being human having a spiritual experience.” We are in physical form, and we are living on a physical plane with a lot of folks with little to no remembrance of anything higher/better/different. It is sad.

I was deep in meditation one day, pondering the nature of suffering. I must have been a terrible soul, I thought, a soul with terrible karma to have suffered so, and I heard very clearly in reply:

“How would you understand the brokenhearted had your own heart not been broken?”

It’s advice that has served me well.

In the meantime ... it is helpful to talk with you and others – and to keep that lamp lit so are footsteps are as solid and true as we can make them!

I am trying (without much success) to finish a giant research project for a first read-through tomorrow morning, so I have little time to write ... and will probably be in this situation until my son has a surgery next week (when I’ll probably have a lot to say!).

Hang in there. Let’s keep talking and hope others join the conversation.

In His Light,


Re: Mercury, et. al.

Posted by Mercury on June 27, 2003, at 20:14:13

In reply to Mercury, et. al., posted by Temmie on June 27, 2003, at 17:31:39

“How would you understand the brokenhearted had your own heart not been broken?”

Those are strong and good words.

But I wonder if we shouldn't rethink the usefulness of suffering. I say all the ways in which one can suffer have already been experienced - and recorded in our collective consciousness. Thousands of years of tragedy. Just pick up a book, go to a movie, listen to a song, talk to an elder, surf the web...what need is there now for a life to crash and burn for us to know how to relate to each other? They say suffering has a purpose, I say BEEN THERE DONE THAT! Thanks but no thanks, I'm through! Time to move on.

On another note, good luck with your "giant research project". Maybe someday you'll share the topic with us. And I hope that your son's surgery goes well. I look forward to you having a lot to say. Now let me leave you with something that always brings me comfort.

"No one ever dies."

It's as close to the Truth as I've come so far.

One Love,


Re: Mercury, et. al.

Posted by Temmie on June 27, 2003, at 21:16:12

In reply to Re: Mercury, et. al., posted by Mercury on June 27, 2003, at 20:14:13

Hi! Just popping in while doing a bit of research (second language acquisition theory), and found your post ....

Re: "But I wonder if we shouldn't rethink the usefulness of suffering. I say all the ways in which one can suffer have already been experienced ... I say BEEN THERE DONE THAT! Thanks but no thanks, I'm through! Time to move on."

I agree! Who knows why we suffer the way we do. And, no, it isn't fair (but sometimes we can't move on. I'd be delighted to move on from depression, but like a hole in my heart that won't go away -- often it's ... just ... there).

With that thought in mind, re. your remark that "life never ends" (or however you phrased it), at times this can seem (eternal life) a hellish twist of fate! For those with spiritual experiences, I think mental/emotional turmoil can sometimes seem especially cruel. You know? How can those who've been blessed with such -- well -- blessings -- continue to be saddled with such woes? (And will pain and despair follow one into eternity?)

Oh well, it is good to talk about these things, and hopefully we can inspire and encourage one another.

Thank you for writing. I'll be checking in.



To Mercury and Temmie

Posted by habbyshabit on June 28, 2003, at 23:57:03

In reply to Re: Mercury, et. al., posted by Temmie on June 27, 2003, at 21:16:12

Hello you two! What a nice surprise to see this thread picking up a little steam! It's so close to my heart and soul that I was a little disheartened that not more were drawn to the topic of metaphysics.

Mercury, your story is so complex and full of deep searching and fullfillment of spiritual goals. Even if today you are mostly caught up in the mundane, as I am, all that has come before surely infuses everything you do. Thank you so much for sharing all that.

While I have studied many and varied traditions, I have followed none to their usual and accomplished conclusions. My favorite religion is Tibetan Buddhism, my favorite spiritual tradition Lakota Sioux.

At any rate, Temmie and Mercury, there is much more I'd like to respond to in your posts but it's late and time for bed. I'll be back tomorrow. Hope to see you here!

In All Love,


Re: Mercury, et. al.

Posted by Mercury on June 29, 2003, at 11:32:39

In reply to Re: Mercury, et. al., posted by Temmie on June 27, 2003, at 21:16:12

The way I understand it, we are all part of a complex matrix of psycho/spiritual energy. This energy is transfered back and forth through a web of relationships both seen and unseen. I'm convinced that those of us who suffer from depression are acting as a magnet for the denser forms of energy, allowing it to "well up" in our person and manefesting as sorrow in our experience. Others may draw hatered and return rage. However this system works, I believe that on the physical level it is a closed system. The only exceptions to this might be the introduction of prophets and angels into that matrix for a finite period of time.

Temmie, you asked "How can those who've been blessed with such -- well -- blessings -- continue to be saddled with such woes?" Well I wonder if on some level, the depressions that we create in the matrix isn't beneficial to the whole. Perhaps by holding much of this negative energy we are freeing others from its grip, perhaps just enough to allow them to make some important progress or contribution to the whole. I believe that these types of relationships, who does what and why, are pre-determined. Not pre-determined in the sense that we relinquish our free will, but in the sense that we volunteer for the roles before hand. Yet in God's ultimate wisdom, we are given a gift of rememberance, so that we might not be totally lost in the darkness. For I cannot imagine a life more difficult then one lived in sorrow, except for one lived without hope. And despite the difficulties each of us might have, the one common denominator we share is that we still have hope. And perhaps that is our greatest blessing and our most important gift to the world.

As far as your question (a troubling one I might add) "And will pain and despair follow one into eternity?". I would have to say yes, and no. We know that after we die, each of us retains some part of our personality and experiences. These aspects of who we are must therefore include the pain and dispair that we experienced in the physical. Yet we are now part of an open system, free from the closed matrix of the physical. This would allow this energy to be channeled out and away, into infinity, rather than to well up in our beings. Therefore, I think the answer to your question might be "Yes, the pain and dispair follows us, but where we're going, that won't matter."

Best guess.

One Love,


Re: To Mercury and Temmie

Posted by habbyshabit on June 29, 2003, at 11:34:07

In reply to To Mercury and Temmie, posted by habbyshabit on June 28, 2003, at 23:57:03


Temmie, that first paragraph in my last post was meant for you, not Mercury. It was late, I had been online for too long and I got your two posts mixed up, name wise, in my mind. You both wrote such honest and deeply felt posts, that I was swept away. Hope both of you understand.

Again, Temmie, I have had many mystical and spiritual experiences in my time, all of which I am grateful for - none of which I'll ever know was real or imagined I guess. A well known Tibetan Teacher, Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche taught and wrote about 'spiritual materialism'. I was fortunate to come across this wisdom young enough to not get to caught up in the visions or to let them become stumbling blocks to deep awareness. Experiences of that nature can be so captivating and ego inflating. It sounds like you have also avoided or transcended those obstacles with the experiences you have had.

The flip side of that coin is that, having had such experiences, we are changed forever. There's no going back to previous illusions/delusions and the world view we had prior to touching something 'divine', other, or unseen. The hard part of this transformation of awareness is that few share it. Some claim to but, after deeper conversation, it becomes clear that they are, well, "spiritual materialists" and stuck in a level of awareness not quite as deep as one's own. I guess I should 'own' all this and say, that this is just my experience. There is no judgments on my part for anyone who's not "been there, learned that", just a vague feeling of not really being able to reveal my deepest, best, self. A feeling of not really being seen for who I really am at heart. Though I think others can feel this aspect of my self, since it is the loving and kind nature I greet them with, they can’t really communicate with me there. That's a kind of loneliness that's hard to describe. I feel I've lived this way for a long time now. I've tried to find spiritual community that fits to fill this void many times over the years. I even attended the Mormon Church for a time this past fall to learn their tenets and see if somehow I could mesh. Not. That may be my last attempt.

I find solace in the Channelings on line from Kryon. They speaks of us old Lightworkers as Lighthouses, out on lonely rocky reaches, spreading light without knowing who is using it to find a safer shore. At least there, in those writings, I can see myself in my own light and feel a part of something larger going on.

I need to go for now. Mercury, I’d like to respond to your post with the care a little free time allows. Thank you both for being so honest and open and willing to put your selves on line.
I’ll be back later…

In All Love,


Re: To Mercury and Temmie

Posted by Temmie on June 29, 2003, at 11:51:54

In reply to To Mercury and Temmie, posted by habbyshabit on June 28, 2003, at 23:57:03

Dear Ones, hello. Lovely posts from both of you which, sadly, I don't have time to read! I am still working on that paper .... It is hard to talk/write about any topic when you don't have knoweldge/experience to draw from and, unfortunately, this case study didn't go into the necessary depth. Enough about that.

I liked hearing from you both. Happy I am acquainted with the book and writing on "Spiritual Materialism," but in my experience -- when I've really endeavored to go within -- to (it's hard to put into words), to get ego out of the way and offer my life in service -- that is when I've been most blessed with those experiences that defy description. Hmmmm.

Re. "hellish experiences and emotions" accompanying ut into eternity, this was a troubling thought I had as a teenager when, unwilling to incur karma by taking my life, I slipped into an outwardly catatonic moment of shuuting down (which was accompanied by great searching and unhappy "whys?" on the inside). So much goobly gook here, probably of no interest to anyone buy myself, but that was when I experienced my first major breakthrough. I will ever say, to the degree one reaches and gives up, they will be inflooded and filled. To the degree of one's belief.

Also like the imagry of being "light workers." There was an old book (Max Freedom Parish? Or am I mixing mediums here) titled, "The Ways of the Lonely Ones" that spoke in terms of our serving as ... well ... carrying lamps that helped light the way for others.

Who knows. This isn't a good time for me to writing, I've got too much going through my head -- just wanted to thank you, both, for writing. I'll print out your posts to ponder when I have a little more time for coherent response.

In His Name,


Re: Emotional Pain/Higher Realms » Mercury

Posted by rayww on June 30, 2003, at 13:57:19

In reply to Re: Emotional Pain/Higher Realms, posted by Mercury on June 27, 2003, at 15:16:14

Your struggles are so typical to all, though individualized with your own set of circumstances and choices.

I think a lot of people gave up hope after Sept 11, and since then have gone down hill. I also think it is now time to get back on track. Hopelessless leads to self pity leads to vulnerability leads to mistakes that might take a lifetime to recover from.

It is surprising how quickly one can recover with hope, trust, courage. It usually takes less effort than we fear. One little thing I am trying to do is to replace bad thoughts with a hymn. So far since yesterday it has worked 100% of the time. Here's my hymn.


Without the darkness...

Posted by CarrieL on June 30, 2003, at 22:01:16

In reply to Redirect: On Preferring Dreams to Waking..., posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2003, at 18:42:19

"Without the darkness, you would not notice the light"
This is a Taoist saying that has always helped keep things in perspective for me. Just thought I'd share it with you... I suppose it helps me reconcile the existences of "good" and "evil."
And on another note... would anyone agree that the world would be better off if we realized that religion does not come from without, but comes from within????? We do not need books, churches, etc. to find "God"... as IT is so often named. We only need to first find "ourselves" before we can find "him".


Re: Without the darkness...

Posted by Mercury on June 30, 2003, at 22:31:37

In reply to Without the darkness..., posted by CarrieL on June 30, 2003, at 22:01:16

I'm going to post a little story for you all in my next message. Its called the Little Soul and the Sun. I hope you enjoy it. But before I do that I just want to touch a bit on the following statement.

"The world would be better off if we realized that religion does not come from without, but comes from within."

One of my favorite books is called "The Waking Dream". Essentially it argues that there is, in fact, no "without"...out there. Its like when we dream, we don't remember the images and events in a dream as being somehow separate and distinct from our inner selves. Because we wake up each morning, its easy to believe that a dream has no reality to it other than what we project into and onto it. If we encounter a cat in a dream, once we awake, we remember the cat as a figment of our imagination, not something real unto itself. It seems to me that something similar, but far more complex, is going on here. Somehow we project out our inner selves onto the fabric our our universe creating all the things we see and experience. This then makes it possible for us to be something in relation to what we percieve to be "out there". We do this individually, collectively and multi-dimentionally. Until we wake up and find that it was the dream that dreamt the dreamer.

On to our story.


Re: Without the darkness...

Posted by Mercury on June 30, 2003, at 22:35:41

In reply to Re: Without the darkness..., posted by Mercury on June 30, 2003, at 22:31:37

The Little Soul & The Sun

ONCE UPON NO TIME, there was a Little Soul who said to God, "I know who I am!"
And God said, "That's wonderful! Who are you?"
And the Little Soul shouted, "I'm the Light!"
God smiled a big smile. "That's right!" God exclaimed. "You are the Light."
The Little Soul was so happy, for it had figured out what all the souls in the Kingdom were there to figure out.
"Wow," said the Little Soul, "this is really cool!"
But soon, knowing who it was was not enough. The Little Soul felt stirrings inside, and now wanted to be who it was. And so the Little Soul went back to God (which is not a bad idea for all souls who want to be Who They Really Are) and said,
"Hi, God! Now that I know Who I am, is it okay for me to be it?"
And God said, "You mean you want to be Who You Already Are?"
"Well," replied the Little Soul," it's one thing to know Who I Am, and another thing altogether to actually be it. I want to feel what it's like to be the Light!"
"But you already are the Light," God repeated, smiling again.
"Yes, but I want to see what that feels like!" cried the Little Soul.
"Well," said God with a chuckle, "I suppose I should have known. You always were the adventuresome one."
Then God's expression changed. "There's only one thing..."
"What?" asked the Little Soul.
"Well, there is nothing else but the Light. You see, I created nothing but what you are; and so, there is no easy way for you to experience yourself as Who You Are, since there is nothing that you are not."
"Huh?" said the Little Soul, who was now a little confused.
"Think of it this way," said God. "You are like a candle in the Sun. Oh, you're there all right. Along with a million, ka-gillion other candles who make up the Sun. And the sun would not be the Sun without you. Nay, it would be a sun without one of its candles...and that would not be the Sun at all; for it would not shine as brightly. Yet, how to know yourself as the Light when you are amidst the Light -that is the question."
"Well," the Little Soul perked up, "you're God. Think of something!"
Once more God smiled. "I already have," God said. "Since you cannot see yourself as the Light when you are in the Light, we'll surround you with darkness."
"What's darkness?" the Little Soul asked.
God replied, "It is that which you are not."
"Will I be afraid of the dark?" cried the Little Soul.
"Only if you choose to be," God answered. "There is nothing, really, to be afraid of, unless you decide that there is. You see, we are making it all up. We are pretending."
"Oh," said the Little Soul, and felt better already.
Then God explained that, in order to experience anything at all, the exact opposite of it will appear.
"It is a great gift," God said, "because without it, you could not know what anything is like. You could not know Warm without Cold, Up without Down, Fast without Slow. You could not know Left without Right, Here without There, Now without Then."
"And so," God concluded, "when you are surrounded with darkness, do not shake your fist and raise your voice and curse the darkness. Rather be a Light unto the darkness, and don't be mad about it. Then you will know Who You Really Are, and all others will know, too. Let your Light shine so that everyone will know how special you are!"
"You mean it's okay to let others see how special I am?" asked the Little Soul.
"Of course!" God chuckled. "It's very okay! But remember, 'special' does not mean 'better.' Everybody is special, each in their own way! Yet many others have forgotten that. They will see that it is okay for them to be special only when you see that it is okay for you to be special."
"Wow," said the Little Soul, dancing and skipping and laughing and jumping with joy. "I can be as special as I want to be!"
"Yes, and you can start right now," said God, who was dancing and skipping and laughing right along with the Little Soul.
"What part of special do you want to be?"
"What part of special?" the Little Soul repeated. "I don't understand."
"Well," God explained, "being the Light is being special, and being special has a lot of parts to it. It is special to be kind. It is special to be gentle. It is special to be creative. It is special to be patient. Can you think of any other ways it is special to be?"
The Little Soul sat quietly for a moment. "I can think of lots of ways to be special!" the Little Soul then exclaimed. "It is special to be helpful. It is special to be sharing. It is special to be friendly. It is special to be considerate of others!"
"Yes!" God agreed, "and you can be all of those things, or any part of special you wish to be, at any moment. That's what it means to be the Light."
"I know what I want to be, I know what I want to be!" the Little Soul announced with great excitement. "I want to be the part of special called 'forgiving'. Isn't it special to be forgiving?"
"Oh, yes," God assured the Little Soul. "That is very special."
"Okay," said the Little Soul. "That's what I want to be. I want to be forgiving. I want to experience myself as that."
"Good," said God, "but there's one thing you should know."
The Little Soul was becoming a bit impatient now. It always seemed as though there were some complication.
"What is it?" the Little Soul sighed.
"There is no one to forgive."
"No one?" The Little Soul could hardly believe what had been said.
"No one!" God repeated. "Everything I have made is perfect. There is not a single soul in all creation less perfect than you. Look around you."
It was then that the Little Soul realized a large crowd had gathered. Souls had come from far and wide ~ from all over the Kingdom ~ for the word had gone forth that the Little Soul was having this extraordinary conversation with God, and everyone wanted to hear what they were saying. Looking at the countless other souls gathered there, the Little Soul had to agree. None appeared less wonderful, less magnificent, or less perfect than the Little Soul itself. Such was the wonder of the souls gathered around, and so bright was their Light, that the Little Soul could scarcely gaze upon them.
"Who, then, to forgive?" asked God.
"Boy, this is going to be no fun at all!" grumbled the Little Soul. "I wanted to experience myself as One Who Forgives. I wanted to know what that part of special felt like."
And the Little Soul learned what it must feel like to be sad. But just then a Friendly Soul stepped forward from the crowd.
"Not to worry, Little Soul," the Friendly Soul said, "I will help you."
"You will?" the Little Soul brightened. "But what can you do?"
"Why, I can give you someone to forgive!"
"You can?"
"Certainly!" chirped the Friendly Soul. "I can come into your next lifetime and do something for you to forgive."
"But why? Why would you do that?" the Little Soul asked. "You, who are a Being of such utter perfection! You, who vibrate with such a speed that it creates a Light so bright that I can hardly gaze upon you! What could cause you to want to slow down your vibration to such a speed that your bright Light would become dark and dense? What could cause you ~ who are so light that you dance upon the stars and move through the Kingdom with the speed of your thought--to come into my life and make yourself so heavy that you could do this bad thing?"
"Simple," the Friendly Soul said. "I would do it because I love you."
The Little Soul seemed surprised at the answer.
"Don't be so amazed," said the Friendly Soul, "you have done the same thing for me. Don't you remember? Oh, we have danced together, you and I, many times. Through the eons and across all the ages have we danced. Across all time and in many places have we played together. You just don't remember."
"We have both been All Of It. We have been the Up and the Down of it, the Left and the Right of it. We have been the Here and the There of it, the Now and the Then of it. We have been the male and the female, the good and the bad; we have both been the victim and the villain of it."
"Thus have we come together, you and I, many times before; each bringing to the other the exact and perfect opportunity to Express and to Experience Who We Really Are. And so," the Friendly Soul explained further, "I will come into your next lifetime and be the 'bad one' this time. I will do something really terrible, and then you can experience yourself as the One Who Forgives."
"But what will you do?" the Little Soul asked, just a little nervously, "that will be so terrible?"
"Oh," replied the Friendly Soul with a twinkle, "we'll think of something."
Then the Friendly Soul seemed to turn serious, and said in a quiet voice, "You are right about one thing, you know."
"What is that?" the Little Soul wanted to know.
"I will have to slow down my vibration and become very heavy to do this not-so-nice thing. I will have to pretend to be something very unlike myself. And so, I have but one favor to ask of you in return."
"Oh, anything, anything!" cried the Little Soul, and began to dance and sing, "I get to be forgiving, I get to be forgiving!"
Then the Little Soul saw that the Friendly Soul was remaining very quiet.
"What is it?" the Little Soul asked. "What can I do for you? You are such an angel to be willing to do this for me!"
"Of course this Friendly Soul is an angel!" God interrupted. "Everyone is! Always remember: I have sent you nothing but angels."
And so the Little Soul wanted more than ever to grant the Friendly Soul's request. "What can I do for you?" the Little Soul asked again.
"In the moment that I strike you and smite you," the Friendly Soul replied, "in the moment that I do the worst to you that you could possible imagine ~ in that very moment..."
"Yes?" the Little Soul interrupted, "yes...?"
"Remember Who I Really Am."
"Oh, I will!" cried the Little Soul, "I promise! I will always remember you as I see you right here, right now!"
"Good," said the Friendly Soul, "because, you see, I will have been pretending so hard, I will have forgotten myself. And if you do not remember me as I really am, I may not be able to remember for a very long time. And if I forget Who I Am, you may even forget Who You Are, and we will both be lost. Then we will need another soul to come along and remind us both of Who We Are."
"No, we won't!" the Little Soul promised again. "I will remember you! And I will thank you for bringing me this gift ~ the chance to experience myself as Who I Am."
And so, the agreement was made. And the Little Soul went forth into a new lifetime, excited to be the Light, which was very special, and excited to be that part of special called Forgiveness.
And the Little Soul waited anxiously to be able to experience itself as Forgiveness, and to thank whatever other soul made it possible. And at all the moments in that new lifetime, whenever a new soul appeared on the scene, whether that new soul brought joy or sadness--and especially if it brought sadness--the Little Soul thought of what God had said.
"Always remember," God had smiled, "I have sent you nothing but angels."


Re: the darkness...the little soul » Mercury

Posted by habbyshabit on July 1, 2003, at 0:15:54

In reply to Re: Without the darkness..., posted by Mercury on June 30, 2003, at 22:35:41


I think it appropriate to give credit to the Channel and publisher of the children’s parable 'The Little Soul and the Sun' - that would be Neale Donald Walsch. For more of his books and organization one can go to

I have had 5 psychotic breaks that lasted anywhere from 6 days to weeks. They were very much like waking dreams. Everything was so real. I was only 3 feet tall once and everything around me seemed appropriate in relationship to my height - buildings, trees and plants, beds. I have so much experience of this type that sometimes it's easy know that - merrily, merrily -life is but a dream.

Only I don't think the dream is creating the dreamer - if I understand you correctly. The dreamer chooses to enter the sleep state. Some choose to have lucid dreams, others prefer sleepwalking. There is no judgment on the part of the creator of the opportunity to choose such a dream, which state one participates in.

To go back to a previous post - how would the ones choosing waking dreams know they were awake without the ones who don't realize they are sleeping to compare themselves to?

Fun stuff, this dream. Unless you prefer nightmares.



Re: the darkness...the little soul

Posted by Mercury on July 1, 2003, at 9:43:37

In reply to Re: the darkness...the little soul » Mercury, posted by habbyshabit on July 1, 2003, at 0:15:54

You're absolutely right to give credit where credit is due. Bad form on my part, thank you. You know its funny how I got to the point where I added that line "the dream dreamt the dreamer". It sort of just popped into my head and I almost didn't include it. But going back and reading the post again I see that perhaps it was meant to remind us of the recipricol nature of the dream. Meaning, rather than it being a one way relationship where we dream everything we see, others dream us too. In fact we dream each other. Strange I know. But I guess its a matter of perspective. From the Little Soul's perspective, it dreamt the experience in which it could forgive, from the Friendly Soul's perspective it drempt the events in which it took evil actions. In fact they were dreaming each other. I'm going around in circles. So I'll stop on move onto something else.



Re: Without the darkness...MERCURY

Posted by CarrieL on July 1, 2003, at 16:32:27

In reply to Re: Without the darkness..., posted by Mercury on June 30, 2003, at 22:31:37

Thanks for the great story :)
You are right that we cannot separate ourselves from our dreams. But what I meant when I wrote that you cannot find God "without" was... that you cannot be truly religious by simply having it forced upon you... or by simply adapting to the main religion(s) of your environment. I think that so many people in the world have been simply SOCIALIZED to "believe" in God. e.g. While a Christian in, say, England may argue that the Biblical God is the one true God, a Chinese man's argument that Buddhism is the one true "way" is just as valid (or invalid). One's religion is so often a "product" of one's environment. And I often wonder, of all the people in the world who CLAIM to believe in "God", how many of them are simply too afraid to say differently and admit their ignorance? I really don't think that anyone can CHOOSE to believe in God and be considered truly religous. You just either do or you don't believe... WITHIN you. It is beyond our control... and regardless of our environment. If one is truly religious, there is no question in his or her mind as to the EXISTENCE of God... Yet, to wonder what or whom God exactly IS is another story. Theism and Atheism are equally dogmatic. There is a sincere honesty in Agnosticism, I think. Who was it that once said something like "It is the journey that matters, rather than the destination...?"
Ohhhhh... sorry for the babbling. But this really is a great forum. :)


Re: double double quotes » Mercury

Posted by Dr. Bob on July 1, 2003, at 19:57:07

In reply to Re: Without the darkness..., posted by Mercury on June 30, 2003, at 22:31:37

> One of my favorite books is called "The Waking Dream".

I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:

The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:




re: BP, Metaphysics and Lucid Dreaming » slinky

Posted by lil' jimi on July 3, 2003, at 13:48:06

In reply to Re: Manic-Depression and Metaphysics » habbyshabit, posted by slinky on June 2, 2003, at 13:04:21

hi slinky

you wrote:
> I'm using dream sleep (I sleep alot) have gained a level of being aware that I'm out of my body and controlling my dreams or 'spirit'and finding it far more interesting than reality....

perhaps you might be interested Stephen LeBerge's "Lucid Dreaming"... ...
... ... there are spiritual components to this technique, which LeBerge touches on ...
... and this practice in the Tibetan Dzogchen tradition focuses on using the dream-state awareness toward spiritual enlightenment ...

~ jim

p.s. i was impressed by how many 'lucid dreaming' link options Amazon offered ... many appear to be much newer references than the one i have offered. ~ j

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