Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1120378

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Re: Venlafaxine is not an SSRI Jay2112

Posted by linkadge on August 23, 2022, at 12:56:36

In reply to Re: Venlafaxine is not an SSRI linkadge, posted by Jay2112 on August 22, 2022, at 21:32:46

Yeah. If you're ever in the Barrie, Ontario area let me know. I'm 39. It might be worth chatting over a cup of coffee or something.

Linkadge

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better. SLS

Posted by beckett2 on August 24, 2022, at 16:14:12

In reply to I should learn how to proofread better. beckett2, posted by SLS on August 22, 2022, at 19:16:33

> What I was trying to say is that the antidepressant response you experience is, on an extremely simplistic level, counterintuitive when considering the recent work with lithium and glutamate activity. That work reports a bimodal action of lithium on glutamate activity based upon dosage. At low dosages, lithium promotes an increase in glutamate activity. At higher dosage, lithium reduces glutamate activity. Glutamate is the most ubiquitous excitatory neurotransmitter. At lower dosages, lithium can have an antidepressant effect, but not an antimanic effect.
>
> So, the question is, why do the actions of lamotrigine and ketamine to reduce glutamate activity produce an antidepressant effect when the low dosages of lithium known to exert an antidepressant effect increase glutamate activity.
>
> Man's models of how the brain works are full of contradictions. Of course, the workings of the brain has no real contradictions. It knows very well how it works.
>
> I think your combining lamotrigine and ketamine is a great idea.
>
>
> - Scott
>

I really don't know. Lithium was not a good medication for me. The suicidal ideations were gone, which is remarkable, but my depression was almost as bad. Plus I have a twitch in one thumb to this day.

My understanding is Ketamine is a dirty drug. Is it? Also, I'm likely in a subset of people who had bipolar depression and fibromyalgia onset together. Interestingly, a recent study observed people with a history of childhood trauma responded more robustly.

I take troches (lozenges) at home. About what, 30-40% have no response? Also, yes, I have mild dissociation. On good days, it's very pleasant.

I hope you're still doing well. No matter the treatment, it's always a struggle to some degree. Speaking for myself at least.

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better. beckett2

Posted by SLS on August 27, 2022, at 9:12:54

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better. SLS, posted by beckett2 on August 24, 2022, at 16:14:12

Hi, Beckett2.


The point that I have been trying to emphasize is that if you are treating depression in the absence of mania, low dosages are sometimes the bullseye, whereas increasing the dosage above some threshold can actually make you feel worse. It seems that I have been unsuccessful.

My sweet-spot for lithium dosage is 300 mg/day. If I take so much as one more 150 mg/day pill, I relapse. 450 mg/day is above my therapeutic window for low-dosage lithium treatment. 20 years ago, Harvard conducted a study of adding low-dosge lithium to an ongoing trial of Prozac 60 mg/day. They defined "low dosage" as being in the range of 300-600 mg/day. The dosage for responders was heavily weighted at 300 mg/day, which, again, yields a therapeutically robust response. If I discontinue lithium, I relapse about 48 hours later. At no time did any dosage above 300 mg/day make me feel better. I reacted to higher dosages by failing to glean an antidepressant response and actually suffereing an exacerbation of depression along with cognitive numbness, emotional flattening, and mild to moderate apathy. People in the arts - music and visual - report losing their creativity at full "therapeutic" dosages. The higher dosages are indeed more efficacious, but for bipolar mania or rapid cyclicity. My own opinion is that (ultra)-rapid-cyclicity, regardless of which mood state predominates, indicates lithium treatment using high-dosages.

An additional benefit of using low dosages of lithium is that side-effects are greatly reduced, including the more toxic thyroid and kidney damage. Side effects are dosage-dependent.

If you haven't yet tried a low-dosage lithium treatment, I suggest that you not abandon lithium until you do. I suggest starting at the lower end of the dosage range - 300 mg/day. I think it makes sense to begin lithium treatment at 150 mg/day. If it is going to work, you should see an improvement by day 7. If there is no response after a minimum of a week, then it makes sense to increase the dosage of lithium to 300 mg/day. Give this dosage a longer trial. Although you would probably respond within a week if it's the right dosage, I would give it a full two weeks, especially if you are beginning treatment by decreasing the dosage of ongoing lithium therapy. It is not a question of lithium's half-life or other pharmacokinetic dynamics. It is a question of waiting for the brain to find a stable dynamic equilibrium from which to move forward.


- Scott

 

Lithium for depression

Posted by undopaminergic on August 27, 2022, at 11:07:34

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better. beckett2, posted by SLS on August 27, 2022, at 9:12:54

I got a promising effect from lithium orotate once, but once only. I took some amount of powder and I did not weigh it. So, I think I should make an effort to try out lithium more systematically. But as of this time, it is not an easy drug for me to acquire.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better. SLS

Posted by beckett2 on August 28, 2022, at 18:40:10

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better. beckett2, posted by SLS on August 27, 2022, at 9:12:54

> Hi, Beckett2.
>
>
> The point that I have been trying to emphasize is that if you are treating depression in the absence of mania, low dosages are sometimes the bullseye, whereas increasing the dosage above some threshold can actually make you feel worse. It seems that I have been unsuccessful.
>
> My sweet-spot for lithium dosage is 300 mg/day. If I take so much as one more 150 mg/day pill, I relapse. 450 mg/day is above my therapeutic window for low-dosage lithium treatment. 20 years ago, Harvard conducted a study of adding low-dosge lithium to an ongoing trial of Prozac 60 mg/day. They defined "low dosage" as being in the range of 300-600 mg/day. The dosage for responders was heavily weighted at 300 mg/day, which, again, yields a therapeutically robust response. If I discontinue lithium, I relapse about 48 hours later. At no time did any dosage above 300 mg/day make me feel better. I reacted to higher dosages by failing to glean an antidepressant response and actually suffereing an exacerbation of depression along with cognitive numbness, emotional flattening, and mild to moderate apathy. People in the arts - music and visual - report losing their creativity at full "therapeutic" dosages. The higher dosages are indeed more efficacious, but for bipolar mania or rapid cyclicity. My own opinion is that (ultra)-rapid-cyclicity, regardless of which mood state predominates, indicates lithium treatment using high-dosages.
>
> An additional benefit of using low dosages of lithium is that side-effects are greatly reduced, including the more toxic thyroid and kidney damage. Side effects are dosage-dependent.
>
> If you haven't yet tried a low-dosage lithium treatment, I suggest that you not abandon lithium until you do. I suggest starting at the lower end of the dosage range - 300 mg/day. I think it makes sense to begin lithium treatment at 150 mg/day. If it is going to work, you should see an improvement by day 7. If there is no response after a minimum of a week, then it makes sense to increase the dosage of lithium to 300 mg/day. Give this dosage a longer trial. Although you would probably respond within a week if it's the right dosage, I would give it a full two weeks, especially if you are beginning treatment by decreasing the dosage of ongoing lithium therapy. It is not a question of lithium's half-life or other pharmacokinetic dynamics. It is a question of waiting for the brain to find a stable dynamic equilibrium from which to move forward.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>

Thanks Scott. 300 mg is a great supplementation. That was my starting dosage, and my suicidal ideation melted away. Usually, ime, medication does not work that fast and dramatically.

I'm alright for now. Lithium and I parted not on the best of terms. Lamotrigine is a big help, too. Lithium is something I recommend to people struggling with suicidal ideation. Surprisingly, it doesn't seem to be offered enough. I don't know why.

There's more science to the function, say, in brain health. That's beyond my scientific knowledge.

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better.

Posted by Lamdage22 on August 29, 2022, at 7:00:53

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better. SLS, posted by beckett2 on August 28, 2022, at 18:40:10

Lithium is something I recommend to people struggling with suicidal ideation. Surprisingly, it doesn't seem to be offered enough. I don't know why.
>
> There's more science to the function, say, in brain health. That's beyond my scientific knowledge.

I can second that. I see it more as a mineral than a medication. The medications containing natural compounds are the best. Should make you think.

 

Re: Lithium for depression undopaminergic

Posted by SLS on August 29, 2022, at 11:31:55

In reply to Lithium for depression, posted by undopaminergic on August 27, 2022, at 11:07:34

> I got a promising effect from lithium orotate once, but once only. I took some amount of powder and I did not weigh it. So, I think I should make an effort to try out lithium more systematically. But as of this time, it is not an easy drug for me to acquire.


Why is it hard to acquire?


- Scott

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better. Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on August 29, 2022, at 11:46:48

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better., posted by Lamdage22 on August 29, 2022, at 7:00:53

> Lithium is something I recommend to people struggling with suicidal ideation. Surprisingly, it doesn't seem to be offered enough. I don't know why.
> >
> > There's more science to the function, say, in brain health. That's beyond my scientific knowledge.
>
> I can second that. I see it more as a mineral than a medication. The medications containing natural compounds are the best. Should make you think.


Lithium is a mineral in that it appears naturally in the Earth's crust.

Just because lithium is a naturally-occurring mineral rather than a complicated organic molecule, doesn't make it any less a drug. Compare the RDA of lithium in milligrams to the amount used in medicinal preparations. I would treat lithium as a drug if it is ingested in supra-nutritional amounts.

Sometimes, I think low dosages of lithium are a sort of aspirin for the brain.


- Scott

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better.

Posted by undopaminergic on August 29, 2022, at 12:44:53

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better., posted by Lamdage22 on August 29, 2022, at 7:00:53

> The medications containing natural compounds are the best. Should make you think.
>

Absolutely. Cocaine, scopolamine, caffeine... even some synthetics like heroin (diacetylmorphine) and aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) are derived from natural compounds.

Does anyone know whether selegiline (l-deprenyl) is actually a natural compound derived from ephedra?

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Lithium for depression

Posted by undopaminergic on August 29, 2022, at 13:00:45

In reply to Re: Lithium for depression undopaminergic, posted by SLS on August 29, 2022, at 11:31:55

> > I got a promising effect from lithium orotate once, but once only. I took some amount of powder and I did not weigh it. So, I think I should make an effort to try out lithium more systematically. But as of this time, it is not an easy drug for me to acquire.
>
>
> Why is it hard to acquire?
>

I'm hospitalised and otherwise live with my parents who have been known to go through my mail and steal my drugs, including "harmless" ones like guanfacine and piracetam. In hospital, especially a mental one, you'd think lithium would be easy to get hold of, and that is perhaps true if you are diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but they insist I have schizophrenia (subtype unspecified) and they mostly ignore not only my depression but my manic episodes as well. I do get lamotrigine however. Different doctors have different favourites or "familiars" that they will prescribe without hesitation. So far I've not run into any lithium fans.

I might take up the idea again with my prescribers, who, for that matter, are subject to change with little or no notice. In the process I might have to convince them that lithium is useful in depression in amounts lesser than those needed for mania. Do you have references to some scientific articles or textbooks that I might show them?

-undopaminergic

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better.

Posted by Lamdage22 on August 30, 2022, at 2:56:10

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better. Lamdage22, posted by SLS on August 29, 2022, at 11:46:48

> > Lithium is something I recommend to people struggling with suicidal ideation. Surprisingly, it doesn't seem to be offered enough. I don't know why.
> > >
> > > There's more science to the function, say, in brain health. That's beyond my scientific knowledge.
> >
> > I can second that. I see it more as a mineral than a medication. The medications containing natural compounds are the best. Should make you think.
>
>
> Lithium is a mineral in that it appears naturally in the Earth's crust.
>
> Just because lithium is a naturally-occurring mineral rather than a complicated organic molecule, doesn't make it any less a drug. Compare the RDA of lithium in milligrams to the amount used in medicinal preparations. I would treat lithium as a drug if it is ingested in supra-nutritional amounts.
>
> Sometimes, I think low dosages of lithium are a sort of aspirin for the brain.
>
>
> - Scott

Still nature came up with the molecule.

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better. undopaminergic

Posted by SLS on August 30, 2022, at 7:41:10

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better., posted by undopaminergic on August 29, 2022, at 12:44:53

> > The medications containing natural compounds are the best. Should make you think.
> >
>
> Absolutely. Cocaine, scopolamine, caffeine... even some synthetics like heroin (diacetylmorphine) and aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) are derived from natural compounds.


How so? That's a hell of a destructive statement, in my less-than-humble opinion.

I might be dead were it not for "unnatural" compounds. For me, "natural" herbs and nutriceuticals are inert. In fact, calcium supplements exacerbated my condition within an hour. Comments?

Didn't you once argue that classifying drugs is arbitrary? Natural vs Unnatural? Please demonstrate that this dichotomy isn't arbitrary.

Your statement carries great weight, and might dissuade some people from choosing a treatment that will give them their lives back. You never seem to take this into consideration when you submit statements like the one at the top of this post.

Please support your statement.

Thank you.


- Scott

 

Re: Lithium for depression undopaminergic

Posted by SLS on August 30, 2022, at 8:01:17

In reply to Re: Lithium for depression, posted by undopaminergic on August 29, 2022, at 13:00:45

> > > I got a promising effect from lithium orotate once, but once only. I took some amount of powder and I did not weigh it. So, I think I should make an effort to try out lithium more systematically. But as of this time, it is not an easy drug for me to acquire.
> >
> >
> > Why is it hard to acquire?
> >
>
> I'm hospitalised and otherwise live with my parents who have been known to go through my mail and steal my drugs, including "harmless" ones like guanfacine and piracetam. In hospital, especially a mental one, you'd think lithium would be easy to get hold of, and that is perhaps true if you are diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but they insist I have schizophrenia (subtype unspecified) and they mostly ignore not only my depression but my manic episodes as well. I do get lamotrigine however. Different doctors have different favourites or "familiars" that they will prescribe without hesitation. So far I've not run into any lithium fans.
>
> I might take up the idea again with my prescribers, who, for that matter, are subject to change with little or no notice. In the process I might have to convince them that lithium is useful in depression in amounts lesser than those needed for mania. Do you have references to some scientific articles or textbooks that I might show them?
>
> -undopaminergic


Have you ever been on lithium before?

Lithium oratate seems to be worthless from what I've observed here. Lithium carbonate is dirt-cheap.

Have you ever been on lithium before? If so, did it help? I am an advocate of low dosages of lithium for depression as long as there are no spontaneous manias. However, if I understand your words, you do have spontaneous manias. The minimum blood level of lithium to treat bipolar mania is 0.6 mEq/L.

Why do you think lithium is worth trying?

Why would any psychiatrist reject lithium as a treatment alternative for treatment-resistant bipolar mania? I consider your doctors' refusal to prescribe lithium to be tantamount to medical malpractice. Get assertive. Tell them that you would prefer not to leave the hospital against medical advice (AMA) just to try lithium. I think that would do the trick.


- Scott

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better. Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on August 30, 2022, at 8:02:17

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better., posted by Lamdage22 on August 30, 2022, at 2:56:10

> > > Lithium is something I recommend to people struggling with suicidal ideation. Surprisingly, it doesn't seem to be offered enough. I don't know why.
> > > >
> > > > There's more science to the function, say, in brain health. That's beyond my scientific knowledge.
> > >
> > > I can second that. I see it more as a mineral than a medication. The medications containing natural compounds are the best. Should make you think.
> >
> >
> > Lithium is a mineral in that it appears naturally in the Earth's crust.
> >
> > Just because lithium is a naturally-occurring mineral rather than a complicated organic molecule, doesn't make it any less a drug. Compare the RDA of lithium in milligrams to the amount used in medicinal preparations. I would treat lithium as a drug if it is ingested in supra-nutritional amounts.
> >
> > Sometimes, I think low dosages of lithium are a sort of aspirin for the brain.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Still nature came up with the molecule.


And?


- Scott

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better. Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on August 30, 2022, at 8:10:39

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better., posted by Lamdage22 on August 30, 2022, at 2:56:10

This might blow your mind:

Man is the product of nature.

Pharmaceuticals are the product of man.

Therefore, all pharmaceuticals are a product of nature. The advent of pharmaceuticals was an inevitability in man's evolution.


- Scott

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better. SLS

Posted by undopaminergic on August 30, 2022, at 11:24:24

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better. undopaminergic, posted by SLS on August 30, 2022, at 7:41:10

> > > The medications containing natural compounds are the best. Should make you think.
> > >
> >
> > Absolutely. Cocaine, scopolamine, caffeine... even some synthetics like heroin (diacetylmorphine) and aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) are derived from natural compounds.
>
>
> How so? That's a hell of a destructive statement, in my less-than-humble opinion.
>

I meant "should make you think", because I find it is interesting to ponder. Regarding "natural compounds are the best" I would qualify it as "some of the best".

> I might be dead were it not for "unnatural" compounds. For me, "natural" herbs and nutriceuticals are inert.
>

Cocaine and morphine are inert?

But in fact, I would say my own experience with herbs, minerals, and vitamins are much the same as yours: they are mostly inert.

> In fact, calcium supplements exacerbated my condition within an hour. Comments?
>

I'm not surprised. Different individuals react differently. My own experience with calcium is more positive than yours, but it was mostly inert.

> Didn't you once argue that classifying drugs is arbitrary?

Yes. Because individual drugs do not always fit nicely into different classes or categories. Eg. doxepin is classified as a TCA, but it might also be classified as an antihistamine or even a sedative.

> Natural vs Unnatural? Please demonstrate that this dichotomy isn't arbitrary.
>

The border between them is a fuzzy one, and ultimately arbitrary. You might argue that pure or refined cocaine is not natural because it does not occur in this form naturally, or you might argue that it is natural because it occurs naturally as a constituent of some species in the plant kingdom.

> Your statement carries great weight,

Not really.

> and might dissuade some people from choosing a treatment that will give them their lives back.
>

That was not my intention. I'm personally a great fan of some syntheticals.

> You never seem to take this into consideration when you submit statements like the one at the top of this post.
>

There is a lot I don't take into consideration. I've I were hung up on that, I would scarcely be able to say anything at all.

> Please support your statement.

I thought you'd rather that I retracted it :)

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Lithium for depression

Posted by undopaminergic on August 30, 2022, at 11:43:12

In reply to Re: Lithium for depression undopaminergic, posted by SLS on August 30, 2022, at 8:01:17

>
> Have you ever been on lithium before?
>

Never consistently for any length of time. I tried the orotate salt, and I had a positive reaction to my first dose. I tried again, but was unable to repeat the experience.

> Lithium oratate seems to be worthless from what I've observed here. Lithium carbonate is dirt-cheap.
>

Yes, lithium carbonate is cheap, but I think that if anything, the orotate salt is better.

> Have you ever been on lithium before? If so, did it help?

See above.

> I am an advocate of low dosages of lithium for depression as long as there are no spontaneous manias. However, if I understand your words, you do have spontaneous manias. The minimum blood level of lithium to treat bipolar mania is 0.6 mEq/L.
>

I've had some spontaneous episodes, yes, but they have been very rare, and I'm more interested in lithium as an antidepressant augmentation than as a mood stabiliser, if for no other reason, the adverse effects of high doses.

> Why do you think lithium is worth trying?
>

Because of the promising reaction I had once to lithium orotate.

> Why would any psychiatrist reject lithium as a treatment alternative for treatment-resistant bipolar mania?
>

I don't have treatment-resistant mania by any means. I do have bipolar disorder, but they insist my condition is of a schizophrenic nature, not bipolar.

> I consider your doctors' refusal to prescribe lithium to be tantamount to medical malpractice. Get assertive. Tell them that you would prefer not to leave the hospital against medical advice (AMA) just to try lithium. I think that would do the trick.
>

Well, I do think the hospitalisation should be used as an opportunity to try treatments under safe and controlled conditions, but I've already tried to communicate that.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better.

Posted by SLS on August 30, 2022, at 14:49:57

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better. SLS, posted by undopaminergic on August 30, 2022, at 11:24:24

UD.

> I thought you'd rather that I retracted it :)


Please don't presume to know what I would rather you do.

Thanks.


- Scott

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better.

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 1, 2022, at 10:38:12

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better. Lamdage22, posted by SLS on August 30, 2022, at 8:10:39

> This might blow your mind:
>
> Man is the product of nature.
>
> Pharmaceuticals are the product of man.
>
> Therefore, all pharmaceuticals are a product of nature. The advent of pharmaceuticals was an inevitability in man's evolution.

Interesting point. Lithium is cool either way. Some Doctors told me its hogwash to low dose Lithium. I don't agree.

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better.

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 1, 2022, at 10:40:01

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better., posted by Lamdage22 on September 1, 2022, at 10:38:12

One told me way back he was glad that I am getting "some" Lithium. Stressing the word "some".

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better. Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on September 1, 2022, at 11:31:18

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better., posted by Lamdage22 on September 1, 2022, at 10:38:12

Hi, Lamdage.


> > This might blow your mind:
> >
> > Man is the product of nature.
> >
> > Pharmaceuticals are the product of man.
> >
> > Therefore, all pharmaceuticals are a product of nature. The advent of pharmaceuticals was an inevitability in man's evolution.


> Interesting point. Lithium is cool either way. Some Doctors told me its hogwash to low dose Lithium. I don't agree.


Lamdage, I can guarantee you that 300 mg/day works and is necessary for me to respond to my treatment regime. About a month ago, I discontinued the lithium to see if it was responsible for lowering my libido. It wasn't. However, I relapsed hard within 48 hours. I immediately restarted it, and felt enormously better within 12 hours.

Your doctor(s) are *behind* the curve.

https://www.google.com/search?q=low+dosage+lithium


- Scott

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better.

Posted by SLS on September 1, 2022, at 12:14:25

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better. Lamdage22, posted by SLS on September 1, 2022, at 11:31:18

In addition, lithium seems to prevent or lower the risk for contracting Alzheimer's Disease.

Lithium is also effective in treating neuroblastoma.

Every time you turn around, scientists identify a new physiological property of lithium. More often than not, lithium produces a therapeutic effect rather than adverse effect. I sometimes wonder if lithium might be analogous to aspirin for the brain.


- Scott

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better.

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 1, 2022, at 13:17:03

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better. Lamdage22, posted by SLS on September 1, 2022, at 11:31:18

> Your doctor(s) are *behind* the curve.
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=low+dosage+lithium
>
>
> - Scott

The ones who said that stuff think they are cutting edge.

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better. Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on September 4, 2022, at 19:58:56

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better., posted by Lamdage22 on September 1, 2022, at 13:17:03

> > Your doctor(s) are *behind* the curve.
> >
> > https://www.google.com/search?q=low+dosage+lithium
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> The ones who said that stuff think they are cutting edge.


I don't understand your phrasing.

Are you critical of the literature that came up on Google?


- Scott

 

Re: I should learn how to proofread better.

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 5, 2022, at 2:15:19

In reply to Re: I should learn how to proofread better. Lamdage22, posted by SLS on September 4, 2022, at 19:58:56

> > > Your doctor(s) are *behind* the curve.
> > >
> > > https://www.google.com/search?q=low+dosage+lithium
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > The ones who said that stuff think they are cutting edge.
>
>
> I don't understand your phrasing.
>
> Are you critical of the literature that came up on Google?
>
>
> - Scott

I was talking about the doctors who said that low dose lithium was useless. You said they are behind the curve, so I answered that these doctors think they are cutting edge.


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