Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1117970

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Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS

Posted by undopaminergic on January 5, 2022, at 8:23:41

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression alchemy, posted by SLS on January 3, 2022, at 14:13:45

>
> There is an incredibly large association between psychotic mania and "religiosity". I would say that religiosity is a reliable marker for bipolar type 1 manic behavior.
>

God seems to be a fun-loving sort of a guy. Therefore, he shows himself more (both quantitatively and qualitatively) in the lives of people who are having fun and feeling good, and you never feel as good as you do while manic. It is easier to be spiritual or religious when you are experiencing the presence of God.

It would not surprise me if God actively tunes out the prayers of people who are miserable. They tend to be asking him to give them stuff or do stuff for them -- would you enjoy listening to that? Neither would God I'm afraid. It's understandable, but it is sad that he is not there for you when you need him the most.

> Tiagabine (Gabitril) is one anticonvulsant that I don't trust. It is GABA reuptake inhibitor. That seems a little too potent to me.
>

Wouldn't that be dose-dependent, just as it is with other reuptake inhibitors?

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression undopaminergic

Posted by SLS on January 5, 2022, at 16:21:20

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS, posted by undopaminergic on January 5, 2022, at 8:23:41

I experienced religiosity during a bipolar psychotic manic episode 32 years ago. It was not pleasant. There wasn't a hint of euphoria. I had endless amounts of energy to create an endless amount of frightening delusions and overt psychosis that required physical restraints to subdue.

1. "Manic Dysphoria"

3. "Dysphoric Mania"

2. "Mixed States"

These terms have been in use since at least the mid-1980s. Neither of them describe a state of euphoria.

The religiosity that I experienced was dependent on delusional / psychotic thinking. The religiosity that I experienced was frightening. Have you ever tried to provoke the Devil into chasing your car down the interstate so that you could lure him away from attacking your girlfriend?

I have never been hospitalized for depression. My only hospitalizations were the result of mania, not depression.


- Scott

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS

Posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2022, at 8:15:20

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression undopaminergic, posted by SLS on January 5, 2022, at 16:21:20

I'm aware of the existence of mixed states. I was commenting based on my own experience. The closest I got to mixed mania was anger that caused me to do something very destructive, namely massively overdose on memantine -- I almost died. That, however, had nothing to do with religiosity.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2022, at 9:25:58

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS, posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2022, at 8:15:20

Emergency room?

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression undopaminergic

Posted by SLS on January 6, 2022, at 14:04:15

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS, posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2022, at 8:15:20

> I'm aware of the existence of mixed states. I was commenting based on my own experience. The closest I got to mixed mania was anger that caused me to do something very destructive, namely massively overdose on memantine -- I almost died. That, however, had nothing to do with religiosity.
>
> -undopaminergic
>

Is there some concise statement you would like to make regarding "religiosity" as a feature of bipolar disorder?

1. What does your experience or non-experience of religiosity prove to others?

2. In what ways do think that your statements will benefit others?

3. Did Scott (SLS) experience religiosity when he was manic in 1987?

4. Is religiosity a possible symptom of bipolar disorder?

5. What is more important to the rest of the world:

. .a) Undopaminergic did not experience religiosity..
. .b) Religiosity is a symptom of bipolar disorder.

* I would not have asked these questions if I could glean from your words what you tried to convey to people.


- Scott

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression

Posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2022, at 14:28:24

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression, posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2022, at 9:25:58

> Emergency room?

I don't remember much of it, but as I've understood it from what I've been told, I was in intensive care.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS

Posted by alchemy on January 6, 2022, at 19:47:48

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression undopaminergic, posted by SLS on January 5, 2022, at 16:21:20

> The religiosity that I experienced was dependent on delusional / psychotic thinking. The religiosity that I experienced was frightening. Have you ever tried to provoke the Devil into chasing your car down the interstate so that you could lure him away from attacking your girlfriend?

Wow, this is so interesting.

What I call my "psychotic thinking" is probably more related to anxiety (and being miserable) - Existentialism. I thank you for your words that it is humane to auto euthanize and it is my choice to to decide to live another day. Feeling "stuck" in this universe is a theme with me. I am the opposite of impulse. I think of all ramifications and have the classic guilt aspect of depression. And even if I was alone in this world, I still probably wouldn't have the guts (which also makes me feel stuck).

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2022, at 22:13:39

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS, posted by alchemy on January 6, 2022, at 19:47:48

Religiosity is a trait of healthy religious people, too.

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS

Posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2022, at 0:24:18

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression undopaminergic, posted by SLS on January 6, 2022, at 14:04:15

>
> Is there some concise statement you would like to make regarding "religiosity" as a feature of bipolar disorder?
>

No, I already said what I had in mind.

> * I would not have asked these questions if I could glean from your words what you tried to convey to people.
>

First, I proposed a hypothesis that may help explain why religiosity may be more common in bipolar disorder. Then you brought forth an argument about mixed states, and I responded that my comments were based on my own experience with (classic) mania and that I had very little experience with mixed states. That is all -- I'm not getting pulled into an argument.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on January 9, 2022, at 6:43:17

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression, posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2022, at 22:13:39

Hi, Lamdage.

> Religiosity is a trait of healthy religious people, too.

Thank you. I didn't realize that the word "religiosity" had a more generic definition. At the time I was hospitlized in 1990, "religiosity" was the word ascribed to the phenomenon that has since been renamed to "hyper-religiosity".


- Scott

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression alchemy

Posted by SLS on January 9, 2022, at 7:07:12

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS, posted by alchemy on January 6, 2022, at 19:47:48

Hi, Alchemy.


> > The religiosity that I experienced was dependent on delusional / psychotic thinking. The religiosity that I experienced was frightening. Have you ever tried to provoke the Devil into chasing your car down the interstate so that you could lure him away from attacking your girlfriend?
>
> Wow, this is so interesting.
>
> What I call my "psychotic thinking" is probably more related to anxiety (and being miserable) - Existentialism. I thank you for your words that it is humane to auto euthanize and it is my choice to to decide to live another day. Feeling "stuck" in this universe is a theme with me. I am the opposite of impulse. I think of all ramifications and have the classic guilt aspect of depression. And even if I was alone in this world, I still probably wouldn't have the guts (which also makes me feel stuck).

For me, "trapped" is the word that comes to mind when I am faced with two choices:

1. Living one more moment in a state of endless pain and struggle.

2. Irrevocably exiting existence and terminating forever my consciousness in order to stop the pain and struggle.

I don't have it in me to choose either one.

I absolutely believe that one has a God-given right to what I call "autoeuthenasia".

HOWEVER, in a state of depression, reality for the sufferer is distorted. Can the sufferer truly be of sound mind when he makes the choice to die when his brain is operating abnormally?

Alchemy, I urge you to take this into consideration before you make a decision.

I also urge you to always give yourself one more day to reach a decision. What's the rush?


- Scott

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression

Posted by SLS on January 9, 2022, at 7:17:47

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS, posted by undopaminergic on January 5, 2022, at 8:23:41

> >
> > There is an incredibly large association between psychotic mania and "religiosity". I would say that religiosity is a reliable marker for bipolar type 1 manic behavior.
> >
>
> God seems to be a fun-loving sort of a guy. Therefore, he shows himself more (both quantitatively and qualitatively) in the lives of people who are having fun and feeling good, and you never feel as good as you do while manic. It is easier to be spiritual or religious when you are experiencing the presence of God.
>
> It would not surprise me if God actively tunes out the prayers of people who are miserable. They tend to be asking him to give them stuff or do stuff for them -- would you enjoy listening to that? Neither would God I'm afraid. It's understandable, but it is sad that he is not there for you when you need him the most.
>
> > Tiagabine (Gabitril) is one anticonvulsant that I don't trust. It is GABA reuptake inhibitor. That seems a little too potent to me.
> >
>
> Wouldn't that be dose-dependent, just as it is with other reuptake inhibitors?


I think that Gabitril-induced untoward psychiatric reactions are idiosyncratic, but occur in a sizeable minority of people - very much like allergies to peanuts.

The magnitude of the pharmacological actions of Hemlock are likely to be dose-dependent. However, death doesn't require very much of it.


- Scott

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression undopaminergic

Posted by SLS on January 9, 2022, at 7:51:01

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS, posted by undopaminergic on January 5, 2022, at 8:23:41

UD:

> > There is an incredibly large association between psychotic mania and "religiosity". I would say that religiosity is a reliable marker for bipolar type 1 manic behavior.

> God seems to be a fun-loving sort of a guy. Therefore, he shows himself more (both quantitatively and qualitatively) in the lives of people who are having fun and feeling good, and you never feel as good as you do while manic. It is easier to be spiritual or religious when you are experiencing the presence of God.

When was the last time that UD experienced the presence of God?

When was the last time that SLS did NOT experience the presence of God?

I have seen only one other person on Psycho-Babble afford his musings the quality of being Truth, and believe that he can know anything about the Mind of God.

You are extraordinarily assumptive. It is a good look on no one.


So...

SLS claims to have never had a euphoric mania.
SLS claims that he experienced hyper-religiosity as the theme of his manic psychosis.
SLS is lying.


> It would not surprise me if God actively tunes out the prayers of people who are miserable. They tend to be asking him to give them stuff or do stuff for them -- would you enjoy listening to that? Neither would God I'm afraid. It's understandable, but it is sad that he is not there for you when you need him the most.

Oh. I just got the joke. You are being satirical! You really got SLS on that one! Don't I feel the fool.

Be that as it may, you are not privileged to know the Mind of God any more intimately than any of His other creations.

You are in no position to suggest to anyone, with or without depression, that their prayers go unheard by God.

Your words disgust me. I am horrified for you if you should really believe them.


- Scott

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 9, 2022, at 8:16:25

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression Lamdage22, posted by SLS on January 9, 2022, at 6:43:17

That sounds much better.

> "hyper-religiosity".
>
>
> - Scott

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS

Posted by undopaminergic on January 9, 2022, at 9:04:30

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression undopaminergic, posted by SLS on January 9, 2022, at 7:51:01

> UD:

SLS:

> > God seems to be a fun-loving sort of a guy. Therefore, he shows himself more (both quantitatively and qualitatively) in the lives of people who are having fun and feeling good, and you never feel as good as you do while manic. It is easier to be spiritual or religious when you are experiencing the presence of God.
>
> When was the last time that UD experienced the presence of God?
>

You mean the last *memorable* experience? I'm sad to say it has been years. I've not been "up" (whether endogenously or pharmacodynamically) for that long a period, so it does not surprise me, given my hypothesis that you quoted above. But I trust he hasn't abandoned me for good. He takes a long-term perspective, so for him, it was only a moment since the last time he manifested himself in my life.

> When was the last time that SLS did NOT experience the presence of God?
>

Seriously, why do you ask me? *I* am not God so I am not able to read your mind.

> I have seen only one other person on Psycho-Babble afford his musings the quality of being Truth, and believe that he can know anything about the Mind of God.
>
> You are extraordinarily assumptive. It is a good look on no one.

I appear more assumptive than I really am. I did not want to litter my post with qualifiers like "It is my hypothesis that ..." and "I have come to believe that ...".

> So...
>
> SLS claims to have never had a euphoric mania.

I believe you. You have missed out on something.

> SLS claims that he experienced hyper-religiosity as the theme of his manic psychosis.
> SLS is lying.

What exactly is SLS lying about?

> > It would not surprise me if God actively tunes out the prayers of people who are miserable. They tend to be asking him to give them stuff or do stuff for them -- would you enjoy listening to that? Neither would God I'm afraid. It's understandable, but it is sad that he is not there for you when you need him the most.
>
> Oh. I just got the joke. You are being satirical! You really got SLS on that one! Don't I feel the fool.
>
> Be that as it may, you are not privileged to know the Mind of God any more intimately than any of His other creations.
>

I am indeed privileged to have been blessed with a number of experiences that have allowed me to infer things about God. I'm not saying there are any guarantees that my inferences reflect the truth. If nothing else, God may have been playing games with me. But if so, I am at least privileged to have been chosen by God to be part of those games.

> You are in no position to suggest to anyone, with or without depression, that their prayers go unheard by God.
>
> Your words disgust me. I am horrified for you if you should really believe them.
>

It reflects some of my working hypotheses. An alternative hypothesis to make sense of the appearance that God does not answer most prayers, is that he *does* answer them in his own way and in his own time (which may be in a couple of thousand years). As I said before, I believe he takes a long-term perspective.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 9, 2022, at 9:09:04

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression SLS, posted by undopaminergic on January 9, 2022, at 9:04:30

I took offense, too.

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 9, 2022, at 9:18:38

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression, posted by Lamdage22 on January 9, 2022, at 9:09:04

Couldn't what you perceive to be God playing with you be good and evil fighting over you?

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression

Posted by undopaminergic on January 9, 2022, at 10:42:11

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression, posted by Lamdage22 on January 9, 2022, at 9:18:38

> I took offense, too.

Sorry, that wasn't my intention.

> Couldn't what you perceive to be God playing with you be good and evil fighting over you?
>

I don't really believe in good and evil as absolute terms. Only good and bad from different perspectives. But sure, there may be other entities than God involved in my life and "pulling" me in different directions. Which reminds me of Freud's Eros and Thanatos -- the "love" and the "death" drives. And I have different alters with different personalities; it's possible they affect me in different ways. However, I've had experiences that were so grand that I feel it only makes sense to attribute them to God. Unless they were hallucinated experiences as part of a delirium. But I choose to believe.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression

Posted by SLS on January 10, 2022, at 13:03:52

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression, posted by undopaminergic on January 9, 2022, at 10:42:11

> > I took offense, too.
>
> Sorry, that wasn't my intention.


Your intentions are irrelevant. Just apologize.


> > Couldn't what you perceive to be God playing with you be good and evil fighting over you?


> I don't really believe in good and evil as absolute terms. Only good and bad from different perspectives. But sure, there may be other entities than God involved in my life and "pulling" me in different directions. Which reminds me of Freud's Eros and Thanatos -- the "love" and the "death" drives. And I have different alters with different personalities; it's possible they affect me in different ways. However, I've had experiences that were so grand that I feel it only makes sense to attribute them to God. Unless they were hallucinated experiences as part of a delirium. But I choose to believe.


How very pious of you.

I know that your words in this post are not directed at me specifically. However, they are directed to the community as a whole - which includes me. I find your pronouncements regarding our mutual existence to be at best pontificating and at worst presumptuously insulting. It is not your duty to change for me or anyone else. However, I suggest that you take into consideration how your words are likely to be received by others before you post them. Of course, my suggestions might be misguided, especially if I am experiencing the hyper-religiosity that scientists acknowledge can be an expression of a mixed-state dysphoric mania in the absence of euphoria.

I suggest that you don't waste any more of your poorly-chosen words on me if you direct those words to me personally. Your compulsion to demonstrate to everyone how "right" you always are is a character trait that leaves me doubting your value as a source of critical thinking, despite my considering you to be a valuable source of information.

I am fully aware that members of the Psycho-Babble community might see this. People will likely not find the tenor of my words to you to be endearing.

 

Re: Mirapex?

Posted by alchemy on January 10, 2022, at 17:11:36

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression, posted by SLS on January 9, 2022, at 7:17:47

This is one I have actually not tried and I have restless legs as well. Compulsive behavior is not my concern - mine would be that it would make me swing a little up and down.

Thoughts?

 

Re: Mirapex? alchemy

Posted by SLS on January 10, 2022, at 20:28:03

In reply to Re: Mirapex?, posted by alchemy on January 10, 2022, at 17:11:36

> This is one I have actually not tried and I have restless legs as well. Compulsive behavior is not my concern - mine would be that it would make me swing a little up and down.
>
> Thoughts?

My impression is that Mirapex (pramepexole) is of limited value globally, especially when used monotherapeutically. However, a few people on PB reported experiencing substantial improvements in depression with it. Mirapex (pramepexole) and Requip (ropinerole), when they do help, they usually poop out very quickly - a week or two.

I try to limit the number of drugs that I reject as treatment candidates. Perhaps you will find a role for DA receptor agonists in your treatment regime.

During a conversation I had last night, I suggested that asenapine (Saphris) would be worth a try for depression or anxiety. I have not kept up with the most recent of drug approvals. However, I found that asenapine has energizing and antidepressant properties. I found it to be "clean", and had no side effects that I was aware of. The improvement in my condition was temporary, but asenapine opened up a new world of lasting functionality for someone who has schizoaffective disorder - bipolar type.


- Scott

 

Re: Mirapex?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 10, 2022, at 22:46:24

In reply to Re: Mirapex? alchemy, posted by SLS on January 10, 2022, at 20:28:03

I once tried to improve sexual sensitivity with dopamine agonists on Nardil with limited success. Dopamine is the only thing that treats my depression considerably, but it sure as hell would lead to paranoia etc. Thus I have decided to do everything within my abilities to get better. Mostly non pharmaceutical.

Also, some people have compulsive gambling as a side effect, which I find pretty nasty.

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression

Posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2022, at 14:08:48

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression, posted by SLS on January 10, 2022, at 13:03:52

> > > I took offense, too.
> >
> > Sorry, that wasn't my intention.
>
>
> Your intentions are irrelevant. Just apologize.

It is the reactions I'm sorry about. I'm sorry to have triggered them. I acknowledge that I screwed up, and I should have been more careful. It's not clear to me however, what went wrong. It's is not the first time I have triggered in you what appears to me to be knee-jerk reactions that are way out of proportion to the "stimulus".

> I find your pronouncements regarding our mutual existence ...

What are you talking about?

> It is not your duty to change for me or anyone else.

I absolutely agree, but I don't know what you're talking about.

> However, I suggest that you take into consideration how your words are likely to be received by others before you post them.
>

Yes, but how am I supposed to able to predict what might trigger people?

> I suggest that you don't waste any more of your poorly-chosen words on me if you direct those words to me personally.
>

Usually, I'm just directing my words at whoever is talking. In this case it is you.

> Your compulsion to demonstrate to everyone how "right" you always are ...
>

I have no such compulsion. In fact, among the two of us, it seems to be you who is reacting to what I say, casually or in passing, with arguments that I'm not really interested in, but I play along, perhaps too often.

> I am fully aware that members of the Psycho-Babble community might see this. People will likely not find the tenor of my words to you to be endearing.
>

Right, and it is not working. In fact I felt provoked, above, to ask what the "hell" you are talking about. I don't think you are trying to provoke, but correct me if I'm wrong. Provokation is not conducive to understanding.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 16, 2022, at 6:08:19

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression, posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2022, at 14:08:48

You have to persist in your faith. You will be saved in the end.

 

Re: Chronic Terminal Depression

Posted by undopaminergic on January 16, 2022, at 8:03:57

In reply to Re: Chronic Terminal Depression, posted by Lamdage22 on January 16, 2022, at 6:08:19

> You have to persist in your faith. You will be saved in the end.

I think it is healthy to have faith in a Higher Power, as it is conducive to optimism and positive thinking, but I don't think it makes a difference as to whether you get "saved" in the end. And I don't think there is really an end.

-undopaminergic


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