Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1115897

Shown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge.

Posted by SLS on July 9, 2021, at 22:21:03

> Yeah, I could never get that high on venlafaxine. I found 75mg very hard to tolerate. Interestingly, I found nortriptyline helpful too. Unfortunately, I stopped it (for some stupid reason and relapsed).

I am SO sorry, Linkadge. You couldn't have known.

So many psychiatrists still adhere to a protocol of a time-limited course of antidepressant therapy. Some psychiatrists change someone's treatment regime on the patient's very first visit, even if they are doing well. I'm not sure that adhering to a "school of thought" is always in the patient's best interests. Both diagnosis and treatment need to be flexible in mental illness. The brain is just too complex to be treated by a monolithic school of thought. "Life charting" sometimes finds a pattern.

A friend of mine who suffered from chronic depression for years finally achieved remission and remained well for about 8 years. The only drug she was taking was lithium. When she moved from North Carolina to California, she found a local psychiatrist. The first thing he said was that she was on lithium long enough and that he wanted her to discontinue it. She did. Three weeks later, she relapsed. When the lithium was restarted, it didn't work at all. It couldn't "recapture" the antidepressant response. She descended into a severe and treatment resistant depression that has lasted for 32 years so far. My guess is that she has a bipolar diathesis, despite her unipolar presentation. Some diagnostic models include depression-only as a subtype of bipolar disorder. With all of the focus and advertisements for Latuda to treat bipolar depression, they never mention mania. I wonder just how common depression-only bipolar disorder really is - where not a single manic episode has occurred.

My presentation is of a chronic severe (treatment-resistant) depression with no history of spontaneous mania. However, I have been severely delusionally and/or psychotically manic as a reaction to taking medication on a handful of occasions. All of them were in association with an MAOI - both Parnate and Nardil. This presentation is described in the DSM-5 as being bipolar with drug-induced mania as a qualifier.

Right now, I'm having trouble maintaining an optimal antidepressant response to Nardil at any one dosage. I might be forced to take 90 mg/day on most days with taking 105 mg/day twice a week. My doctor has another patient that did this with. I have never read nor heard anything indicating that there was a dosage window for Nardil as there is for nortriptyline. I actually lose a qualitatively robust response when I remain at 105 mg/day for longer than 5 consecutive days. Overall, my conscious experience is dramatically different in some ways and very familiar in others. It has changed my life. It is now fun to participate with others and be in control in almost all situations. I don't really have that many years left at this point. I know 61 sounds young by modern standards, but my adolescence and adulthood were stolen from me. They didn't exist but for both pain and numbness every waking moment. Your stories are probably not much different.

At age 61, I am absolutely blessed to be able to spend any time at all in my life experiencing a normal human state of conscious. For some reason, no one uses the phrase "an altered state of consciousness" to describe mental illness. I have for quite awhile. My doctor hasn't warmed up to the idea yet. I have become adamant in my use of this phrase. It adds a realness to how the mentally ill experience existence. Being intoxicated with alcohol is a purposeful alteration in one's state of consciousness. It is manifestly true. The strategic use of words can help mitigate stigma and promote understanding.

Does anyone else find the phrase "altered state of consciousness" to be an accurate characterization of their illness?

I think I can now live out my years with intellectual and emotional exploration, adventure, and lots of sex. However, this does not come without a sense of guilt. I wish I could take you all along with me.


- Scott

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. SLS

Posted by undopaminergic on July 10, 2021, at 6:22:55

In reply to I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by SLS on July 9, 2021, at 22:21:03

I posted a comment at:
https://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20210418/msgs/1115903.html

About the phrase "altered state of consciousness".

-undopaminergic

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge.

Posted by linkadge on July 10, 2021, at 11:06:49

In reply to I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by SLS on July 9, 2021, at 22:21:03

Yeah, parnate and nardil are powerful medications. Nardil, for example, metabolizes to PEA (amongst other things) and also inhibits MAO-B which slows the breakdown of PEA. If PEA gets too elevated this can certainly lead to manic like behavior. The MAOIs are known for making even 'normal' people feel better (perhaps temporarily, however).

The SSRIs (or SNRIS) just seem to produce a superficial feeling of wellbeing. But, lately, it's not even wellbeing as much as it is just feeling numb. I did fairly well a few years back on nortriptyline and lithium (with a bit of tryptophan). However, my sleep started to become disjointed (microwakenings). When I switched back to mirtazapine, the sleep improved but the depression worsened.

I breifly took parnate (for about a month) but had a spontaneous hypertensive crisis and was yanked off of it. While I likely didn't have long enough for a full effect, the mood improvement I experienced was much more comprehensive than any SSRI.

MAOIS not only elevate the three primary monoamines, but also the trace amines which have antidepressant effects in their own right.

I am 'semi-functional' on drugs like effexor, mirtazapine, lithium and ritalin (which I am prescribed), but I'm definitely not well, and just feel like I am masking symptoms. I have a bit of time off this summer, so I decided to try the alternatives (as mentioned in my above post).

The PEA is powerful and more so when taken with rhodiola. I am not looking to get high or develop an addiction so, I am taking it in very measured amounts (dissolve in eyedropper and put a few drops under my tongue). In theory, sublingual might bypass some of the rapid destruction by MAO-B. See my picture.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-lfmyXq757gBaOAtU-gGEQakX4Of4FfY/view?usp=sharing

Linkadge

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge.

Posted by Lamdage22 on July 10, 2021, at 12:56:43

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by linkadge on July 10, 2021, at 11:06:49

What is a normal state of consciousness and who decides that? I think it is better to aim for desirable state of cosnciousness.

Sometimes normal is not desirable.

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on July 11, 2021, at 12:47:14

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by Lamdage22 on July 10, 2021, at 12:56:43

> What is a normal state of consciousness and who decides that? I think it is better to aim for desirable state of cosnciousness.
>
> Sometimes normal is not desirable.

By "normal", are you referring to your personal state of persistent depression because it is present more often than it isn't?

"Normal" is a term used to describes a statistical frequency, not a subjective judgment of what is healthy and what is unhealthy. It does, right or wor

Have you ever felt normal?

Asked another way, does depression feel the same as what you experience when you respond partially to treatment? Can you remember how differently you were thinking and feeling? Does your perception of the world change between depressed states and non-depressed states? Being depressed, frustrated, and in pain, wouldn't you want to alter your state of consciousness?

:)


- Scott

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge.

Posted by Lamdage22 on July 12, 2021, at 1:27:25

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 11, 2021, at 12:47:14

Yeah not sure why I wrote this here. I agree with you that depression is an altered state.

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on July 12, 2021, at 11:55:54

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by Lamdage22 on July 12, 2021, at 1:27:25

> Yeah not sure why I wrote this here. I agree with you that depression is an altered state.

Thanks. That means a lot to me.


- Scott

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge.

Posted by Lamdage22 on July 13, 2021, at 1:52:54

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 12, 2021, at 11:55:54

You always seem to anxiously wait for my approval :) I would want to alter my state if the result is less total alteration, yes.

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. SLS

Posted by jay2112 on July 13, 2021, at 21:15:40

In reply to I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by SLS on July 9, 2021, at 22:21:03

Hi Scott:

You have *always* been so rational, and scientific, your value to Babble has been majorly supportive, and greatly knowledgeable! I know that pretty much everybody here, past and present, would agree.

Cheers!

Jay

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on July 14, 2021, at 14:36:48

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by Lamdage22 on July 13, 2021, at 1:52:54

Hi Lamdage.


> You always seem to anxiously wait for my approval :) I would want to alter my state if the result is less total alteration, yes.

You are a hard person not to like. I don't know if you have seen a difference in yourself over time, but I have. You're a good man/person.

:)


- Scott

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. jay2112

Posted by SLS on July 14, 2021, at 14:54:17

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. SLS, posted by jay2112 on July 13, 2021, at 21:15:40

> Hi Scott:
>
> You have *always* been so rational, and scientific, your value to Babble has been majorly supportive, and greatly knowledgeable! I know that pretty much everybody here, past and present, would agree.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Jay

Thanks, Jay. I think you are overestimating me, but you can keep right on doing it.

While we are on the subject of me, I want to state that I think Linkadge is the most valuable member on Psycho-Babble. My knowledge base doesn't come close to his. He is also extremely logical and insightful with the way he manages information to come up with theories and conclusions.

Don't tell him I said that. We used to butt heads 20 years ago.


- Scott

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge.

Posted by Lamdage22 on July 14, 2021, at 23:40:23

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 14, 2021, at 14:36:48

Thank you. You yourself are good people. There is certainly a trend of improvement. Dont know yet if this 5-HTP instead of ADs choice is a good one. It is day 3 or 4 of this experiment. Only time will tell. At this moment I like how I feel. I will post more once I know more.

If there is one thing they should give to everyone struggling with mental health issues, its faith.

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on July 15, 2021, at 10:02:08

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by Lamdage22 on July 14, 2021, at 23:40:23

> Thank you. You yourself are good people. There is certainly a trend of improvement. Dont know yet if this 5-HTP instead of ADs choice is a good one. It is day 3 or 4 of this experiment. Only time will tell. At this moment I like how I feel. I will post more once I know more.
>
> If there is one thing they should give to everyone struggling with mental health issues, its faith.

ABSOLUTELY.

My belief in God - not necessarily the entity described in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam - was essential to my survival.


- Scott

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge.

Posted by undopaminergic on July 15, 2021, at 11:59:15

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 15, 2021, at 10:02:08

> >
> > If there is one thing they should give to everyone struggling with mental health issues, its faith.
>
> ABSOLUTELY.
>
> My belief in God - not necessarily the entity described in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam - was essential to my survival.
>

God (I don't know who else it could be!) showed me parallel realities at least twice. In one of them, the laws of physics seemed to be different. That makes it easy for me to believe. (Technically, I suppose it could have been the kind of delirium psychonauts experience on drugs like atropine and scopolamine.)

-undopaminergic

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge.

Posted by SLS on July 15, 2021, at 12:52:00

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by undopaminergic on July 15, 2021, at 11:59:15

> > >
> > > If there is one thing they should give to everyone struggling with mental health issues, its faith.
> >
> > ABSOLUTELY.
> >
> > My belief in God - not necessarily the entity described in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam - was essential to my survival.
> >
>
> God (I don't know who else it could be!) showed me parallel realities at least twice. In one of them, the laws of physics seemed to be different. That makes it easy for me to believe. (Technically, I suppose it could have been the kind of delirium psychonauts experience on drugs like atropine and scopolamine.)
>
> -undopaminergic


That's fascinating. Were you under the influence of any psychotropic?

Do you believe in "multiverses"?

I don't know how these physicists, cosmologists, and mathematicians come up with stuff, but they are absolutely brilliant geniuses.


- Scott

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. SLS

Posted by undopaminergic on July 16, 2021, at 11:10:43

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by SLS on July 15, 2021, at 12:52:00

> > > >
> > > > If there is one thing they should give to everyone struggling with mental health issues, its faith.
> > >
> > > ABSOLUTELY.
> > >
> > > My belief in God - not necessarily the entity described in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam - was essential to my survival.
> > >
> >
> > God (I don't know who else it could be!) showed me parallel realities at least twice. In one of them, the laws of physics seemed to be different. That makes it easy for me to believe. (Technically, I suppose it could have been the kind of delirium psychonauts experience on drugs like atropine and scopolamine.)
> >
> > -undopaminergic
>
>
> That's fascinating. Were you under the influence of any psychotropic?
>

Possibly desoxypipradrol (aka. 2-DPMP), but it does not normally produce any "unusual" effects -- it is just like a long-acting version of methylphenidate. Now that I think of it, I may have taken sulpiride as well.

> Do you believe in "multiverses"?
>

Yes. I use the term Omniverse to encompass everything including parallel universes and the spiritual.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. undopaminergic

Posted by SLS on July 16, 2021, at 20:02:40

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. SLS, posted by undopaminergic on July 16, 2021, at 11:10:43

> > Do you believe in "multiverses"?


> Yes. I use the term Omniverse to encompass everything including parallel universes and the spiritual.

I really like that.


- Scott

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge.

Posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2021, at 0:26:19

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge. Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 15, 2021, at 10:02:08

I said it like that because I also mean belief in yourself. Mental health professionals often neglect faith as a whole or even tell you there is something fundamentally wrong with you at the core of your being. Sometimes this is true, but more often it is not.

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge.

Posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2021, at 0:28:05

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2021, at 0:26:19

In my opinion that is. I have seen and talked to many many patients.

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge.

Posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2021, at 0:44:07

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2021, at 0:26:19

I am worthy of recovery is a good mantra.

 

Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge.

Posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2021, at 2:12:35

In reply to Re: I am reposting something I wrote to Linkadge., posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2021, at 0:44:07

So what I am trying to do is not to alter myself to resemble normalcy, but to unalter myself to normalcy. If you fill up essential nutrients that you are deficient in, I would desribe that as unaltering.


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