Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1115772

Shown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Antibiotics for most mental illness

Posted by jay2112 on July 3, 2021, at 20:24:51

When I was in the hospital, for 3 weeks, I was pumped full of antibiotics for every single day.
After about a week, and the rest of my stay, I started to majorly come out of my depression and anxiety. And, when I got home, I was on them for another 3 weeks. 6 weeks of daily antibiotics! I had a huge problem with constipation, and this seemed to really pump all the bacteria infesting my body.

So, I researched this a bit further, and once again, the concept of depressive disease is linked to inflammation. Minocycline, an antibiotic, has also been linked as having antidepressant, antipsychotic, anti-manic properties.

https://theconversation.com/antibiotics-could-be-repurposed-as-a-treatment-for-depression-141755

I read, in my university case studies, a story about a young boy who had outbreaks of severe depression, seizures, like someone with a brain injury, and his Mom said that she would see him walking around the backyard like a "80 year old man, completely unresponsive". The boy's neurologist tried every med out there, with absolutely nil response. So, the neurologist tried minocycline, and after a week, BINGO! The boy started to come back to life. He eventually became a loving 10 year old boy.

So, I know this has been discussed on here before, but your thoughts, everyone?

Jay

 

Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness

Posted by linkadge on July 4, 2021, at 14:24:20

In reply to Antibiotics for most mental illness, posted by jay2112 on July 3, 2021, at 20:24:51

The effects of minocycline are not generalizable to other antibiotics. In fact, use of antibiotics is associated with an increased risk of depression (and probiotics with a decreased risk).

Minocycline has a strong effect in reducing microglia activation (i.e. reducing inflammation in glial cells in the brain). It is very effective at this. However, I would caution on generalizing this to other antibiotics.

Linkadge

 

Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness (All) and linkadge

Posted by jay2112 on July 6, 2021, at 21:26:15

In reply to Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness, posted by linkadge on July 4, 2021, at 14:24:20

> The effects of minocycline are not generalizable to other antibiotics. In fact, use of antibiotics is associated with an increased risk of depression (and probiotics with a decreased risk).
>
> Minocycline has a strong effect in reducing microglia activation (i.e. reducing inflammation in glial cells in the brain). It is very effective at this. However, I would caution on generalizing this to other antibiotics.
>
> Linkadge

Yes, after researching a bit more, I did a c*m hoc ergo propter hoc in my observations. I was in the hospital, for almost 3 weeks, with antibiotic being pumped through me. I had 24 hour care, and likely relief of possible (I am waiting for the sleep test at the lab) sleep apnea, as I had almost 24 hour therapy combination of oxygen/forced air. That alone could have lifted my depression/anxiety quite a bit. But also, I have been heavily constipated since I started on psych meds almost 25 years ago. The antibiotics, given IV, for most of my stay in the hospital, really cleared me out. Soon, I was having regularity daily, sometimes a bit too intense..lol. Also, I was eating a good diet, and maintained good blood sugar levels, which I didn't really attend to pre-hospital. Plus, I was put on a whole new insulin regiment.

So, considering my stay le chateau Niagara Hospital, lol, I wish I could go back!! lol. Also, the antibiotic effect of healing tons and tons of bacterial infections and sputum in my respiratory system (and a surgically inserted drain from an inserted pipe in my collapsed lung, to help clear up my pneumonia), I went from nearly dying to healthy in my 3 week stay.

The combination of all of that jolted me back to life. My meds worked way better. So, yes, saying the antibiotics caused that is like saying the iron lung can clear depression/anxiety.

And, when I got home, I started to sink again. The first few weeks home were like hell, and I was still on antibiotics for another 3 weeks. But, I started going backwards, thinking about what meds made me flat, with volatile emotions at the same time. I went through a few old meds, and the one in particular, nortriptyline, combined with a small dose of Effexor, started to clear things up. (Oh, and I am also on a small dose of risperidone, at night.) The nortriptyline seems to really work on the depression and flatness. Also, the anticholinergic effects of nortrip seem very beneficial, and I am only having a bit of a memory lapse sometimes. I think it is an amazing add-on to SRI's and low dose SNRI's. I also pulled up some studies that akso showed nortriptyline may have a tiny amount of signaling effect on opioid receptors.

I am going to be trying minocycline next week, when I talk to my pdoc.

Sorry for the long post, but I highly encourage hospitalization if anyone is clutching at straws, and at their wits end. (We know what thinking that leads to.)

Thanks,
Jay

 

Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness (All) and

Posted by linkadge on July 9, 2021, at 18:20:21

In reply to Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness (All) and linkadge, posted by jay2112 on July 6, 2021, at 21:26:15

Thanks for sharing that.

I found that nortriptyline + tryptophan + lithium worked pretty well.

Linkadge

 

Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness

Posted by SLS on July 11, 2021, at 7:25:09

In reply to Antibiotics for most mental illness, posted by jay2112 on July 3, 2021, at 20:24:51

> So, I know this has been discussed on here before, but your thoughts, everyone?

Minocycline helped me perceptibly over the course of months. I had to discontinue it because of the development of black and blue discolorations of the skin. It's called hyperpigmentation, and usually appears on the feet and shins.

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(12)00308-4/fulltext

There is sometimes a residual hyperpigmentation that doesn't disappear. Most of mine disappeared, but it took months.

What about Lyme Disease? Believe it or not, some Lyme experts have seen disulfiram (Antabuse) effectively treat Lyme when antibiotics didn't. Just stay away from alcohol. Treating Lyme with doxycycline has been the standard practice. Taking doxycycline for months did not improve my depression at all. I think minocycline causes a greater inhibition of the release of microglial pro-inflammatory cytokines than doxycycline.

Over the years, NSAIDs have been studied for depression. Statistically, many studies have shown shown some therapeutic efficacy. Wishful thinking on the part of investigators? Celecoxib (Celebrex) might be worth taking a look at. Usually, this drug does not produce ulcers. This was why the drug was developed. However, celecoxib ometimes causes severe stomach pain as a side effect. I don't know the mechanism behind this. Celecoxib is a selective inhibitor of COX-2. Perhaps COX-1 inhibition is the property necessary to produce an antidepressant effect. I haven't looked deeply into this, but celecoxib has been investigated using RCT (randomized clinical trial).


- Scott

 

Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness (All) and

Posted by SLS on July 11, 2021, at 7:50:02

In reply to Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness (All) and linkadge, posted by jay2112 on July 6, 2021, at 21:26:15


> Sorry for the long post, but I highly encourage hospitalization if anyone is clutching at straws, and at their wits end. (We know what thinking that leads to.)

Yes.

In the 40 years that I have been resistant (untreatable), I have never once researched methods or make a plan. Never. This was for self-preservation. I simply didn't allow my mind to go there. At one point, everything caved in on me, and I decided that it was time to leave. I couldn't do it that same day because I was visiting a girlfriend and staying at her house. So, I planned to make it first on my bucket list when I got home (humor?). While I was visiting, I wouldn't make her part of my act, of course. Still, I wouldn't go to Google to perform research into methods. By the time I got home, I was feeling better because of the way I finessed the dosage of Effexor. So, I was glad to continue my with my ignorance.

Please avoid impulse decisions while you are horrendously depressed. We all know that more often than not, the severity of pain, frustration, hopelessness, and helplessness fade back to a level that allows you to recharge your batteries and continue your quest.


- Scott

 

Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness (All) and linkadge

Posted by SLS on July 11, 2021, at 8:14:59

In reply to Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness (All) and, posted by linkadge on July 9, 2021, at 18:20:21

Hi, Linkadge.

> I found that nortriptyline + tryptophan + lithium worked pretty well.

Does lamotrigine (Lamictal) have any positive effect on you? For me, 200 mg/day doesn't do it. I need 300 mg/day. However, the dosage-response curve does not follow an all-or-nothing pattern. So, if 200 mg/day allowed you to peer through the blackness, you might respond more robustly at 300 mg/day if you can tolerate it. I know you are very sensitive to drug side effects. However, if you tolerated lamotrigine at the dosage that helped you, you may want to explore higher dosages. If it helps, but just not enough, you can then opt to leave it in the background as you move on. Just because this strategy worked for me doesn't mean that it will work for anyone else, of course. Remember, it will take you 5-6 weeks to arrive at 300 mg/day. If you should decide to return to lamotrigine, you might find it necessary to go low and slow.

I don't remember your ever mentioning MAOIs. What is your history with them? Of all the features of your depression, which is the most severe and needs the most attention?


- Scott

 

Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness (All) and SLS

Posted by undopaminergic on July 11, 2021, at 11:30:07

In reply to Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness (All) and, posted by SLS on July 11, 2021, at 7:50:02

>
> In the 40 years that I have been resistant (untreatable), I have never once researched methods or make a plan. Never.
>

You seem to know a lot about some methods, drugs in particular.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness (All) and

Posted by linkadge on July 11, 2021, at 12:08:02

In reply to Re: Antibiotics for most mental illness (All) and linkadge, posted by SLS on July 11, 2021, at 8:14:59

When I first got depressed, it was mainly anxiety and insomnia (as well as a sense of utter hopelessness) which persisted for many months.

However, in retrospect, there were symptoms leading up to that which were complete loss of joy which was probably present for a year or two before before the anxiety / insomnia started.


For the past few years, my sleep / anxiety has been ok, but I just feel dead inside most of the day.

I did try lamotrigine, up to 50mg. I understand I should have gone higher. I didn't feel much of anything on 50mg. If anything, just more flat.

I did try parnate briefly around 2002. As mentioned, it did seem to provide a more comprehensive resolution of apathy. Unfortunately, one afternoon, by heart just began to race (without eating any offending foods). My psychiatrist got scared and yanked me off (the drug I mean).

At the moment, I am not seeing a psychiatrist. The wait list (in Canada) is 2+ years. My regular doctor is young and full of nonsense like deep-breathing recommendations.

So, it's not that I wouldn't benefit from a medication change, it's that I really don't have the options for medical care to see this happen.

Linkadge



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