Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1114887

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Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by undopaminergic on May 27, 2021, at 11:27:43

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by Lamdage22 on May 27, 2021, at 9:53:52

> +1 The body stops producing whatever it produces from the mrna right?
>

As I understand it:

As the mRNA is metabolised, the cells stops producing whatever protein it encodes.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 5:25:36

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by undopaminergic on May 27, 2021, at 11:27:43

um...

usually DNA -> mRNA -> protein.

people-cells have the DNA contained within the nucleus.

The DNA vaccines contain a fragment of DNA (not an entire chromosome or anything like that) and they use the shell of an adenovirus to get inside the nucleus. I think that is the idea. adenovirus is unique. it is the only virus that manages to deliver it's contents into the nucleus. other DNA viruses don't manage to get the DNA into the nucleus, i think. i think that's right. That's why a lot of the research focuses on using adenovirus as a vector to deliver DNA contents inside the cells. Because it can get the contents into the nucleus.

So the DNA vaccines contain a fragment of DNA and an adenovirus shell. I think I read somewhere that the introduced DNA would only likely last in the body up to a couple days or something like that before being degraded. I suppose it would break down into the bases from which is is built. Purines and pyramidines. A. C. T. G.

Now that I say it I wonder why it does degrade rather than persisting like the rest of the DNA that is inside the cell. I suppose regular DNA is wound up into a double helix to protect it when it isn't actively being transcribed into mRNA or being replicated into DNA. I don't know. But they do think that it does degrade and get eliminated by the body.

The adenovirus shell is made from protein. That would break down into aminio acids.

The DNA makes mRNA which is broken down... The spike protein is the end product. The spike protein is released from the cell and antibodies find it and clear it.

So the aim or end goal is the production of an increased population of plasma cells (b cells) that are able to quickly produce antibodies if the virus is detected in the system again. That just is immunity.

___________________

With the mrna vaccines they deliver mrna to the cytosol or cytoplasm. The mrna is translated into protein. Then things are the same from there. I don't think the mrna ones were using reverse transcriptase to make DNA... But either way... the mrna gets broken down into purine and pyramidine bases, again. A. C. U. G. I htink it is thymine being replaced by uricil in mrna...

____________________

I did read recently that the DNA or mRNA that was introduced to the body in the vaccines is degraded within a few days. It persists only really long enough to get into the target location in the cell (the nucleus or the cytosol) and then enough mrna copies are made so that enough spike proteins are made so that enough T cells and B cells are activated so that enough b cells make plasma cells which persist... With the longer-term ability to produce lots of antibodies to spike protein next time the body encounters the virus.

the idea of booster shots is that the population of plasma cells that respond diminishes over time so the immunity isn't as great as we would like. which is to say that if the body encounters the virus it might not be able to mount enough of a response to neutralise it when the virus is busy replicating itself inside the body.

i don't know if this make sense or helps.

i'll try and find the link for the source of the info

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 5:42:31

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 5:25:36

actually the virus shell will be lipid with spike proteins. but these things are degraded the way they usually are. they don't persist in the body, they don't think.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6274812/

huh. well that's weird. it's saying that DNA vaccines are new technolgy... they are concerned about persistence of DNA as plasmids in animal cells.

hmm...

> Compared with some of the newer, experimental technologiessuch as Modernas mRNA vaccine, which was the first to enter human trials in the USadenoviral vectors are touted as a more tried-and-true approach. J&J calls its adenoviral vector platform a proven technology. While adenoviral vectors have been tested in far more people than mRNA vaccines, the technology is used in only one commercial vaccine today: a rabies vaccine used to immunize wild animals. So far, no adenoviral vector vaccines have demonstrated they can prevent disease in humans.

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/Adenoviral-vectors-new-COVID-19/98/i19

huh. they think that after having 1 dose of an adenovirus vaccine the body will likely not allow a second because you will have developed immunity to the adenovirus... but the adenovirus is the common cold... which nobody has immunity from. yeah?? so... who knows. hmm...

most of the focus seems to have been a concern to deliver ENOUGH of an immune response.

___________


 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 5:46:07

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 5:42:31

I don't know which one I would choose. I don't know of any reason that I find complelling as to why I would be better to choose one over another.

I suppose I might try and stay away from the ones that used Chimpanzees in the making of. On ethical grounds. But I don't know enough about the development and manufacture of other ones to know that they are any better.

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 6:01:03

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 5:46:07

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine.html

It sounds like they don't know.

in the J&J and other DNA viruses DNA is delivered into the nucleus. The DNA is a short fragment (not a whole chromosome or anything). It is capable of being translated into mRNA and the mRNA is capable of making a fragment of the spike protein found on the outside shell of Coronavirus which is recognised as an antigen by the body.

I think we don't know how long that DNA fragment lives inside the cells nucleus.

It is capable of doing a 'jumping gene' thing and permanently getting inside the DNA? Maybe. Which cells in particular does the DNA get inside, anyway? All the cells? Or just a few from the respiratory tract... I don't even know that.

Plasmids are a bit different. Bacteria don't have compartments. Their DNA is in the cytoplasm and they make protein from mRNA in the cytoplasm. Animal cells are different where the DNA is contained inside the nucleus and the proteins are made (and folded) in a protected compartment the endoplasmic reticulum...

People don't have plasmids... Little circuluar bits of accessory DNA... I don't know... We don't know..

Likely it is degraded.

I guess they will want to be measuring the blood to see teh levels of spike protein that are being produced by the body to see for how long the DNA is being made into mRNA and protein by the body, anyway. But that doesn't tell us whether or not it has been degraded by teh cell, I suppose. I don't know. LIkely it makes mRNA until it's worn out / degraded. I don't know.

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 6:04:24

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 6:01:03

all the introduced DNA does is make a fragment of the spike protein.

it is recognised as an antigen by the body. that means the body will make antibodies to clear it away.

but the spike protein is harmless.

i don't think there have been cases of people... sort of... producing vast volumes of the spike protein that congeal into... amyloid... agglutinate into... clot... i don't know...

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 6:49:35

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 5:42:31

sigh.

the 'information' we have been getting online is not as clear as it could (and should) have been.

mrna vaccines deliver mrna. mrna typically or usually degrades after a few days in the cytosol. it is reasonable to expect that mrna introduced with vaccine would degrade the same as mrna produced by the cell. so it would enter into the purine / pyramidine synthesis / recycle / elimination (via urine) pathway.

j&j and astrazenica deliver dna. they use adenovirus to get the dna all the way into the nucleus. it isn't an 'older and safer' technology at all. it is a very new technology and it is actually concerning what will happen to the dna that has been introduced into the nucleus imho.

they think it will only introduce a little bit of dna that codes for a harmeless (though antigen producing) bit of the spike protein.

but there are concerns around...

so, this new piece of dna has been introduced. how often will it be transcribed? will it hijack / take over so that other bits of dna won't be translated? that could kill the cell. so... how many cells are getting infected with the vaccine and what kind of insult will there be to the body if they turn out to basically spam spike protein instead of doing anything else?

the issue they are asking is: well... is there any evidence that the new piece of dna can get into germ line cells?

that is to say the gonads.

that is to say that the dna could be incorporated into the chromosome and passed on to children.

and evidence is a bit unlcear...

so...

now i am thinking...

that the reason why they suggested it for older people and halted it in younger people... was because of concerns that the DNA is being integrated into the chromosome or persisting as plasmid in the nucleus. making too much mrna / too much antigen.

_________

it seems / feels like every day there is a new piece of information that makes me think differently about which is safest or best or whatever. The clotting thing was very very rare. stil. very very rare. i still don't know wha tthe clots are made from...

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 6:55:07

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2021, at 6:49:35

they were saying the clots were like heparin induced thrombocytopenia.

but that is different from my first thought that it was something potentially to do with protein misfolding from the body spamming out spike protein. the proteins were congealing weirdly in the blood.

or maybe the clots werent' formed from that... maybe they were immunoglobulin-protein complexes. there are different kinds of antibodies... maybe they are getting an IgM (clotting or agglutinating) response in some people rather than an IgG response.

I don't know.

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by SLS on May 30, 2021, at 21:59:16

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by SLS on May 17, 2021, at 12:04:52

The New York Yankees baseball team was injected with the J&J vaccine. Afterwards, 3 or more tested positive for coronavirus.

For now, I'm still wearing my mask until someone can assure me that breathing in coronavirus won't do any damage before they are overwhelmed by antibodies and the rest of the immune system. In other words, what, if any, damage is sustained before the virus is intercepted by antibodies. Is there a lag that allows time for the damage to accumulate. Remember, though, it is not the virus that creates all of the damage. At some point, the virus provokes the release of a hugely exaggerated inflammation response - a "cytokine storm". Too many white blood cells attack the inner lining of blood vessels, and make them leak blood into tissues. On the other hand, blood clots can form also. It is bewildering.


- Scott

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how undopaminergic

Posted by Beckett2 on June 6, 2021, at 7:51:16

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how Phillipa, posted by undopaminergic on May 13, 2021, at 11:32:20

Thought of you: https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1345926734227664901?s=12

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on June 7, 2021, at 13:43:20

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by SLS on May 30, 2021, at 21:59:16

> The New York Yankees baseball team was injected with the J&J vaccine. Afterwards, 3 or more tested positive for coronavirus.

I don't know if production of the spike protein triggers a positive test? I don't suppose it would otherwise the vaccine would undermine the integrity of the test...

> For now, I'm still wearing my mask until someone can assure me that breathing in coronavirus won't do any damage before they are overwhelmed by antibodies and the rest of the immune system. In other words, what, if any, damage is sustained before the virus is intercepted by antibodies. Is there a lag that allows time for the damage to accumulate.

I don't know. It can't hurt to wear a mask, I don't think.

> Remember, though, it is not the virus that creates all of the damage. At some point, the virus provokes the release of a hugely exaggerated inflammation response - a "cytokine storm". Too many white blood cells attack the inner lining of blood vessels, and make them leak blood into tissues. On the other hand, blood clots can form also. It is bewildering.

Yeah... I forgot about leaking blood into the tissues and clots. They thought those were similar in mechanism to heparin induced thrombocytopenia. They know already that it isn't only induced by heparin. It can be induced by other drugs and also it can induced by viruses. The antibodies that the body produces (I think that is right) activate the platelets. So the platelets form clots. Then the platelets are all used up.

It was relatively recently that I understood that the platelets are sort of dynamically active to prevent blood leaking out of the small vessels. Like how receptor proteins are dynamically flipping into or out of cell membranes. A certain level of platelets or whatever is required to be attending to the walls of the small vessels otherwise you start to leak blood. So if the platelets are all used up attending to the antibodies forming clots with them then there aren't any attending to the walls. So blood leaks. They get activated irrevokably. I think that's the idea... So they are basically taken out of action.

Does that make sense? Of the clots together with bleeding out?

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on June 7, 2021, at 13:52:53

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on June 7, 2021, at 13:43:20

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/201722-overview

actually here, there is an immune one specifically.

they say the antibodies actually attach to or bind to the platelets.

antibodies bound to platelets are removed by the macrophage of the spleen.

so then low levels of platelets.

_______

the issue is that antibodies aren't as specific as we like to think.

it is likely part of a normal robust healthy immune response for the body to selectively produce a few different antibodies that are responsive to different parts of the pathogen.

but it is possible that each of those antibodies has a broader target then intended. they may cross-react to something else in the body.

platelets. or the particular kind of collagen found lining heart valves or...

________

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how alexandra_k

Posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2021, at 8:43:46

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on June 7, 2021, at 13:43:20

Isn't that what DIC is where the body bleeds out? Oh the NY Yankees never heard a word about them again. Don't think any of them developed Covid. Phillipa

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how Phillipa

Posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2021, at 16:35:07

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2021, at 8:43:46

> Isn't that what DIC is where the body bleeds out? Oh the NY Yankees never heard a word about them again. Don't think any of them developed Covid. Phillipa

disseminated intravascular coagulation? that would be wide-spread (disseminated) clotting (coagulation) inside the blood vessels (intravascular). if the platelets are all used up in forming clots inside the blood vessels then the person might be bleeding out of the vessels because there aren't platelets attending to the walls. That would explain the rash they were seeing. pin-point bleeds or slightly larger regions... Apparently there is a particular size of red splotch commonly associated with DIC. yeah.

aspirin helps prevent the clots by preventing the platelets agglutinating or sticking together. in some of the platelets, I suppose.

but this seems to be a different thing from the heparin-(like) or immune thrombocytopenia where the problem isn't platelets agglutinating in the blood but platelets being removed by the macrophage of the spleen.

there was something about clotting first and then bleeding. so I was wondering about the nature of the clots. whether the clots were intravascular and agglutinations of antibody platelet complexes... whether these two phenomenon were part of the same thing / same process.

______

it could be that people who are having a good strong healthy wanted immune response post-vaccination have positive (or, they like to say 'weakly positive') Covid tests. sometimes they say that a test result is consistent with a historical exposure. it might be that the Covid Tests are able to tell who has been immunised / developed antibodies. There a test for... Maybe Chicken Pox? They can detect antibodies which is consistent with either vaccination or prior exposure and immunity.

It might be that the spike protein that is produced by the vaccine is detectable as a weak positive. I am not sure. I don't know what the detection tests are detecting when they give a positive result. Likely different tests are responding to different things.

______

In NZ GP's seem to have been left out of our Covid Response. That is to say, after the hoarding debarcle that we had last year with the roll out of the influenza vaccine (the debacle that we have every year with vaccine) not getting to the people.... Them being hoarded by GPs and not given to vulnerable people and those same doses being sold for $50 to people who could afford to pay that cost...

It looks like the GP's aren't going to be part of our vaccination roll-out. They aren't going to be trusting them with that.

I saw something today about some GP being concerned about GP's posting 'anti-vaccination' information. You have to be careful about that. It's like how you call someone 'racist' and then that's somehow a licence to... I don't know... Ruin them. Shut down whatever they were saying and ruin them. If you don't like what someone is saying and you don't have any intelligent way of engaging then you call people names like 'racist' or 'anti-vaccer'.

Anyway.... There was this GP in the news saying that it was 'anti-vaccer', apparently, to ask whether vaccination can cause the disease or whether vaccination can alter your DNA. He reckoned the appropriate answer to these questions was the short answer of 'the vaccines are safe and effective' or similar. That is to say... To sort of side-step the question.

________

My Mother has said to me, at various points things that I don't agree with (but I remember that she believes them and I try and respect other people's beliefs). For example, she says that it doesn't really matter what you do to kids because they don't remember. When I was a kid she would be very dismissive of my emotional upset or whatever and I remember she would express to people that it didn't matter because I wouldn't remember. I know it is her own stuff... That likely that's what people have said to her, or whatever. I have tried to counter this at times... Saying that I do remember this, that, and the other. And then she will say 'oh, did I say that? I don't remember.'

Once she said that if she was ever in an old folks home with dementia and in the position where there was some reality thing that upset her (someone had died or whatever) if she forgot... She would want to be humoured. Lied to. 'Oh yeah, that person called this morning and they will visit you tomorrow'. To comfort her. Console her. Rather than hearing the person died and didn't she remember?

I mean to say my Mother doesn't see any harm in a strategy that... To me.. To me, mind (not to her) feels like 'there there Dear don't you worry your pretty little head about that'. That is to say... I do not take well to people thinking that they have any kind of right or know better than me what is good for me to know. Making decisions on my behalf and so on.

But I understand that other people feel differently.

My Mother went in for a bone marrow biopsy. She says they gave her gas and she went to sleep and when she woke up she felt fine. No pain. And I said... Suggested... That maybe they didn't really give her a bone marrow biopsy because that procedure is typically thought to be very very painful. They don't give people in the US gas to put them to sleep when they are getting the procedure done (not sure why, honestly) but people say it's painful. And you'd expect it to be painful for the next few days... And she said something about 'well, I suppose they did it. I didn't actually ask'.

She doesn't want to know. She likes the human contact. She likes it to be comforting. There there. Feel better.

I am more accepting and tolerating of that position when I feel (actually, when I have good reason to believe) that my preference is accepted and respected and I'm not being lied to and things aren't being dumbed down etc by... People who are... Usually... Pretty f*ck*ng stupid. Making pretty f*ck*ng stupid decisions about what is best for me (helping you helping you helping me help myself to you...'

______

I don't think it is acceptable to give people the short answer and be like 'and that's an end to it'. I think it is fair to say 'this is the short answer... But there is a longer answer if you want to know more'.

The trouble is that our GPs aren't very well educated themselves. The tank tank decided to take the low road and GPs are only equipped to go 'there there there are no tests and no treatments and no medications there there there there there there there feel better there is no actual medical anything at all for the likes of you.'

The vaccine that NZ is getting is not one that can alter DNA.

But the NZ government wavered the manufacturers liability. Likely because the manufacturer refused to provide liability for unauthorised storage and administration and so on. And all bets are off when it isn't stored or administered in accordance with procedures demonstrated to be safe. And this is something that the NZ government refuses to comprehend with it's very tiny brain... And so there we are.

I don't really understand why the GPs say they are respected in their communities, here, in NZ. I think they are mistaking respect for something different entirely...

They don't seem to get that, either.

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2021, at 16:51:11

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how Phillipa, posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2021, at 16:35:07

the hospital got hacked and the doctors couldn't access patient records / patient files.

they were sending people for radiation treatment to private providers in Tauranga and arranging radiation therapy in Tauranga and Wellington and were even talking about Sydney.

My Mother could have used that opportunity to go back and say that she was concerned (that had very recently had a bone marrow biopsy after a positive FISH test) and she was concerned that may she did need to start radiation therapy... They did say something to her about an experimental treatment in Tauranga...

I did say to her that I thought she should go and talk to the specialist and see what he had to say so that she could make an informed decision.

But she doesn't want to do any of that. So -- that is her decision. She could have had a private consultation at no cost to herself (or the cost of a bus ride to a place maybe 40 minutes away). My sister would likely have driven her and stayed with her if that is what she wanted (and she enjoys my sisters company). But she made her decision.

So it isn't that the public system is failing her. She's chosen.

I don't know about the bone marrow biopsy. I find it suspicious that they knocked her out. But my mother will go on about how anxious she is, so maybe they did decide to knock her out for it.

She's got this idea that by doing nothing / delaying / waiting and seeing things will be... Gentler. Easier that way.

I think she's just accepting that that's that. Really. She is over 80, I guess.

It used to be that was a good age. I guess I'm too used to hearing of people over 100.

I don't suppose she has much of a will to live, really. Like my Dad.

Like me, half the time.

But my thing is how I cannot function in this garbage-heap of a rubbish-land because the people they chose to be mighty esteemed leaders with all the money and all the power and all the meaningful work use their power to refuse to do any of the things that they are supposed to do. Most basic of functions. Not working. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. I can't function because all the money grubbers grubby grub grub grubbed up everything while not doing any of the things that allow other people a way of life, too.

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2021, at 16:54:38

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2021, at 16:51:11

I suppose she's doing what they want / expect of her, really. Curling up and dying with the minimum of fuss. Less cost to the tax-payer. Etc.

We don't value our people.

Unless we over-value them, of course. The children of the elite who get to do whatever they want whenever they want because they want. Bribe their way in. Bribe their way out. Bribe their way into esteemed professions (such that they are no longer esteemed professions) 'aw there there feel better there's nothing I can do but I have all the stuff all the stuff all the stuff all the money all the property all the stuff awwwwww there there there there there there there there there helping me helping me helping me help myself to you'

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2021, at 18:33:51

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2021, at 16:54:38

what I said about GPs might sound mean -- but that's the truth to it.

our leaders have decided that such truisms as 'there will never be enough to meet genuine need' is true and they have committed to paths that result in the greatest proportion of deprivation etc etc etc...

they have decided not to invest. because they are afraid the investment will be stolen. because they think that... I don't know. they don't trust that people will be responsive to reason. world leaders or whatever.

for example, we won't invest in training people. we won't sign them off. because we think they will leave for better offers overseas. the people who leave typically say 'it's not about the money'. people don't leave for more money (though often they do in fact get more money from leaving) they leave because of everything else. because of how they can't function here. because of how the leaders won't allow things to develop.

so the strategy is to only sign off on people who we believe nobody else will want. if we have evidence of them having committed a crime, or something, then that is the kind of thing we are going for. suppose they are a pedophile and we can agree to turn a blind eye to that in exchange for them being a 'well respected and highly paid member of the esteemed professional community'. they aren't likely to leave. we choose to invest in people such as these, in other words.

and otherwise it's about keeping things as dumbed down as we possibly can. we pick the kids to do med when they are young young young. we pick the kids who were given the answers in their private schools. we pick them not because they are the brightest -- but we pick them precisely because they aren't.

then we bully them and treat them like crap. make them believe that nobody else will have them. make them believe they are lucky to have been chosen to lead in nz. make them believe that if they aren't complicit in all this then they will be thrown back onto the heap of deprivation that is the lot for the masses.

we only train people to do medicine in nz if we think they could never pass the Step examinations (for example).

the US won't take our medical students for internships or electives, pretty sure. can't afford the liability insurance for having people who won't follow instructions in the hospitals.

they were picked to go 'there there there's no labs there's no medication there's nothing for you.' 'just comply with government directive do whatever they say whenever they say because they say otherwise they'll steal your stuff and throw you in a detention facility and throw away the key'.

write a little note on your police or health file to indicate USE OF FORCE for the non-person.

_

we just had some trade-meeting. by the sounds of it barriers lifting for Covid response was the side-step around the fact of trade sanctions for EVERYTHING else.

locked out.

shut out.

shut down.

nz won't meet climate change obligations: no mechanical vehicles into nz.

trade sanctions.

nz was selling arms to groups on the UN blacklist.

trade sanctions.

f*ck*ng refusal to get with the programme. inability to conceive of *why*. the state of retardation...

__

the university of Waikato had nowhere to go on the world ranking list. if they went down overall anymore they would have dropped out the bottom of being recognised as a university at all.

but they needed to indicate that academic standards (refusal to sign students off / refusal to allow international community to sign students off) has gotten WORSE. so they give them a few points overall to have them drop in how they are perceived by academics internationally.

still they refuse.

f*ck*ng imbicels. I mean... what I am supposed to say?

the government pays them how much, again, to ensure that nz does not develop. does not have knowledgeable or skilled people. to only sign off on people they believe to be sufficiently incapacitated so as to go on t produce nothing with, do nothing with, anything to do with the qualifying degree. unless, of course, they are pedophiles or whatever in which case their sign off will be post-haste and they'll be accepted into the fold with open arms.

f*ck*ng imbiecels.

what am I supposed to say?

where is my degree?
where is my place in the training programme?
where is meaningful employment?
where did you put the job advertisements?
you are supposed to hire the BEST person for the job -- not the WORST.
f*ck*ng upside down and back to front land.
nothing grows

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2021, at 18:40:42

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2021, at 18:33:51

they just had an independent inquiry (what a joke) into corruption in the Otago Medical School.

except it wasn't independent. it was mostly in-house with a GP from Canberra (Australia) as the sole 'independent' party.

they failed to find evidence of this, that, and the other. for the obvious reason that they constricted the scope of the inquiry.

they focused on people OVERSEAS (not on people in NZ) and they refused to look into evidence of them having paid money (paid a bribe). they only looked into the fact that they were supposed to be in attendance at the hospital but they had evidence (photos of them climbing mountains on Facebook etc) of them being located too far away from the hospital for it to be plausible that they were attending the hospital at all.

so they made it be an issue of them playing traunt. like the naughty children that they were. the reason for them to be selected. living the life as GPs in rural communities working minimal hours. riding horses. flying planes. you get the idea. start as you mean to carry on. as mummy and daddy do. make their living already. or.... join the ranks of those kept in deprivation, then.

that's the basic strategy. the basic idea.

and there aren't any labs. and there isn't any treatment. no medication. no medical supplies. just a bit of 'there there feel better'. and that's living the dream -- right?

that's why mummy and daddy paid $20,000 per year for your private rural boarding school?

all the money for 'tutoring' to former graduates of the medical school to sell you the answers on admission tests and medical tests. buying the answers from the university?

right?

that's the public sector in nz?

yeah?

that's how to become a respected medical doctor?

living the dream?

yeah?

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how

Posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2021, at 18:49:13

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2021, at 18:40:42

and that's why the message is:

take your vaccine when the government says because the government says (if you are lucky enough to be able to obtain one by bribing a local GP near you).

because they don't know enough about anything else.

it's becoming more and more and more obvious as people are getting more computer literate.

it's becoming more obvious as people are learning more about their medical conditions etc.

joining support groups where they see what treatments people are getting in Australia and Canada and the UK and the USA.

people are becoming more aware at how... substandard. and how... ignorant. how... condescending. many of the medical 'professionals' are, in New Zealand.

and the doctors themselves, of course, failing to be professional with Facebook pages and the like.

_

one of our scientists was saying it costs her $20,000 or $25,000 to have a paper published (or peer reviewed for publication?) in certain journals. I wondered a bit if that is the price *for her* given certain things they know in advance about practices involved in such things as 'data cleaning' and various laboratory protocols etc etc etc. the process of peer review, given that.

they say it's about peer review vs open access.

the university doesn't provide (to the public) research computer access. that is to say... I can't go up to the medical library and view any of the books that are kept behind the front desk or that are kept in storage. not even if I leave my passport or drivers license. not even if I pay a sum in case of damages. I can't use their journal subscription to read research articles.

the new Zealand government doesn't provide a means / mechanism for the people of New Zealand to access peer reviewed research.

I think I might be able to join as an 'associate' of the university. that costs a lot.

I didn't apply because it is an 'at our discretion' thing. you have to beg for them to choose to make a special exception for you.

like applying to medical school in the first place.

they force you to do that. then they use that to beat you about the head of 'everything we have done for you' to get you to comply with / be complicit with them.

))))

the lengths they go to to prevent development and to keep people oppressed.

it's criminal. really. would be anywhere but here.

oh riiiiiight. we are doing so much better than Tonga! we don't know how lucky we are!!

 

Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how alexandra_k

Posted by Phillipa on June 11, 2021, at 20:31:58

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how, posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2021, at 18:49:13

Alex I think I will google New Zealand see what they say. Phillipa

 

Vaccine info or questions should be elsewhere

Posted by stargazer2 on June 13, 2021, at 21:32:21

In reply to Re: Johnson + Johnson vaccine can someone explain how alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on June 11, 2021, at 20:31:58

Am I the only one that thinks questions about vaccines are not relevant in this category mostly used for psych meds? I find them annoying to see in a category always used for strictly meds for psych conditions. I know many are interested but they are not medications, are they? Maybe I'm just being picky. sorry if I am way out of line.

 

Re: Vaccine info or questions should be elsewhere

Posted by alexandra_k on June 14, 2021, at 2:49:47

In reply to Vaccine info or questions should be elsewhere, posted by stargazer2 on June 13, 2021, at 21:32:21

Yeah.

Seems fair.

It can be hard to know, sometimes, if something is psychiatric vs medical.

For example, people maintaining that they have long-term effects of Covid... Or people maintaining that they have side-effects from Covid medications... That are, appear to be, that masquerade as, that are perhaps psychiatric in nature (or medical in nature rather than psychiatric)... An overlap...

But I hear you.

 

Re: Vaccine info or questions should be elsewhere

Posted by stargazer2 on June 15, 2021, at 21:50:24

In reply to Re: Vaccine info or questions should be elsewhere, posted by alexandra_k on June 14, 2021, at 2:49:47

They are vaccine related not psych med related as far as I can tell. this category has always been a psych med category and lately as I have not been on site too often, any post about a vaccine is really out of place under psych meds. Thanks for hearing me on this suggestion as to anther section being more appropriate for Covid related info.
I am not even interested in any vaccine information when I am searching for new meds or reading about others feedback on their meds.

 

Re: Vaccine info or questions should be elsewhere stargazer2

Posted by Phillipa on June 15, 2021, at 23:29:01

In reply to Re: Vaccine info or questions should be elsewhere, posted by stargazer2 on June 15, 2021, at 21:50:24

It's always been the medication board with lots of other posts thrown in there what goes with what etc. Vaccines are medications and many are now going through severe depressions and anxiety for the first time after having Covid. I do hope you are vaccinated. But that is a personal choice. I got the J&J and wish I'd gotten the Pfizer or Moderna ones. And for anyone on immunosuppressants like the meds used for lupus or RA they do not know how much protection the person gets. I bet there are some on here that this applies to and didn't know. If don't like the content scroll by. Phillipa

 

Re: Vaccine info or questions should be elsewhere stargazer2

Posted by alexandra_k on June 20, 2021, at 23:07:06

In reply to Re: Vaccine info or questions should be elsewhere, posted by stargazer2 on June 15, 2021, at 21:50:24

Yeah, I understand. Bob used to be fastidious about re-directing threads off of the Meds board to ensure it remained focused on Psych Meds.


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[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

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