Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1114079

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Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by undopaminergic on March 14, 2021, at 4:24:57

In reply to Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by Lamdage22 on March 14, 2021, at 3:39:37

> Hey guys,
>
> is it really that dangerous to take one of these two if you are on antidepressants?
>

No, it isn't, unless perhaps if you take high doses of both.

If you're concerned about serotonin syndrome, you may consider keeping cyproheptadine (Periactin) at hand as an antidote.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by Christ_empowered on March 14, 2021, at 4:29:11

In reply to Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by Lamdage22 on March 14, 2021, at 3:39:37

i dunno. really helpful, i know. the last time i skimmed the ((limited)) research on it, it looked an awful lot like 5-htp could enhance response to antidepressants, without serotonin syndrome...

but there are -so many- things going on, here. 2 low dose antidepressants, 2 full dose 'atypical' neuroleptics, plus the underlying condition.

i don't know much at all about tryptophan supplements. 5-htp seems to have become the 'preferred' alt substance ever since some people died from the contaminated tryptophan way back when (I know, isolated incident, etc...I'm just sharing what I've seen in the very, very limited pool of available evidence).

personal suggestion? I know this is going to sound like a 'broken record,' etc., but...Orthomolecular. seriously. at high doses, B3 (I personally go for niacinamide) indirectly boosts tryptophan levels, in addition to its more immediate actions on GABA receptors. This probably explains some of B3's psych effects, over the medium- to long-haul...

anti-anxiety, improved sleep, reduced obsessions, reduced compulsions, anti-aggression, mellowed and brightened mood. true story.

the only 'problem' is that it isn't quite as simple as pop B3 till one feels better. The preferred protocols involve -at least matching- one's B3 dosage with vitamin C, plus a couple high potency b-complex tablets, per day. One would be well-advised to also take a decent multivitamin.

I've reintroduced B3 (yes, again), after having ditched it for a while. Funny thing...now that the mental health people say "You're making strides in recovery!" (recovery from...what, exactly?), I find that the (fairly simple, but relatively high-dose) Orthomolecular protocol (DIY, of course) is far, far more helpful than similar supplementation was, in years past.

My --personal protocol-- ...which is to say, this is what I take, when I remember, not something that is "the solution" or what have you, just...my DIY 'hope this works' combo, that's all...

is as follows: 1 b-100 tablet + 4 grams vitamin C + 2 grams niacinamide, 3x daily (max...more often, I get 2 doses in). niacinamide is my go-to B3, but I will say that above 6 grams/daily, nausea and appetite suppression become an issue. :-(

I do take additional supplements. I'm trying to get in 20 grams/daily vitamin C. I take 1000 IU natural form E w/ additional mixed tocopherols. multivitamin, when I remember. I just added Rhodiola and Ashwagandha. The rhodiola seems surprisingly...helpful, already.

ok. just my non-professional, take it or leave it input/'advice,' that's it and that's all.

hope this helps. :-)

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 14, 2021, at 4:30:40

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by undopaminergic on March 14, 2021, at 4:24:57

Thanks,

I think I will let my doctor know about my plans. Maybe he can recommend a course of action in case I get Serotonin Syndrome and write a note about it. So then at least in the ER they know what to do if it really gets too much. I don't think it will but it might.

But yeah, low dose 5-HTP might be ok with low dose Venlafaxine and low dose Trazodone. This is very unconventional but it may make sense. I am doing this because I am turned off by anorgasmia very much. And Trazodone at a higher dose doesn't feel very good.

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 14, 2021, at 4:32:37

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by Christ_empowered on March 14, 2021, at 4:29:11

I tried high dose B3 with horrendous results. I already am on a Protocol that I consider to be Orthomolecular. Just not quite at the dosages.

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by undopaminergic on March 14, 2021, at 7:36:42

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by Lamdage22 on March 14, 2021, at 4:30:40

>
> I am doing this because I am turned off by anorgasmia very much. And Trazodone at a higher dose doesn't feel very good.
>

If you already have anorgasmia, why are you seeking to further augment serotonin? Excess serotonin is the reason SSRIs cause anorgasmia. I don't remember the mechanism, but it may be increased prolactin.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 14, 2021, at 7:39:09

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by undopaminergic on March 14, 2021, at 7:36:42

I dont have it. I would though if I went higher with Venlafaxine. Tryptophan/5HTP does not usually cause anorgasmia as far as i know.

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 14, 2021, at 21:59:11

In reply to Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by Lamdage22 on March 14, 2021, at 3:39:37

i've taken 100mg of 5-HTP with maximum dose of prozac and had no problems, but the thing is serotonin syndrome too much serotonin breakout in sweats, flush, etc can be dangerous to have.....but it depends on how much you take, if you just took 1 50mg 5-htp, that should not at all cause serotonin syndromoe. BUt it should be taken with caustion. 5-htp helps sleep with me, same thing to melatonin

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2021, at 5:08:45

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 14, 2021, at 21:59:11

How quickly would you expect Serotonin syndrome to develop? Is it safe to say that after two weeks you are safe on your meds and supplements? I could start with 25mg.

I wonder if I should ask my psychiatrist to write me a note that says what to do if serotonin syndrome is suspected. But he is VERY anti supplements.

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2021, at 11:40:52

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 14, 2021, at 21:59:11

How long until you noticed benefits? I hear that most serotonin syndrome symptoms start within 24h of the offending drug.

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by linkadge on March 15, 2021, at 16:12:56

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2021, at 11:40:52

Serotonin syndrome can start quickly, in the case of 2 serotonergic drugs being combined. However, it has also been known to develop more slowly. Tryptophan has been used in conjunction with other serotonergic meds (i.e. the Dalhousie serotonin cocktail - tryptophan + lithium + clomipramine) for treatment resistant depression. However, it should be done cautiously. What causes serotonin syndrome can vary widely from person to person (possibly due to differences in sensitivity to serotonin). I often combine small amounts of tryptophan (i.e. 50mg) with effexor and lithium without any problems. I dissolve it in water and drink it slowly. You should still be cautious when taking it on a longer term basis, as serotonin can build up in the brain over time. However, it occurs along a spectrum, so if you're noticing any symptoms (i.e. especially chills), then stop everything.

Linkadge


 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 15, 2021, at 16:18:34

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by Lamdage22 on March 15, 2021, at 11:40:52

i didnt really have any major benefits, i take prozac at max dose, i've been on it years so body for used to it, but the only thing is if you take long enough it can build up in serotonin levels, then having an overdose of serotonin in the brain. Think of like taking prozac and tramadol together, they build up in serotonin after time. Serotonin syndrome is not fun....flushing, somteimes siezures. But you said you take low dose of effexor, that should not really cause it. But if you take a large dose of 5-HTP yes, say like 200-300mg. But i did notice a little effect but it was not really benefit, it's more to help sleep becauser serotonin is envoolved in sleep cycle, just like melatonin. I'm not advising anything because not a doctor but that's just my view or research i found

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 15, 2021, at 16:32:09

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 15, 2021, at 16:18:34

there is zyprexa which block some serotonin sites, they use zyprexa in hospital somtimes to treat serotonin syndrome. If you take zyprexa, your party taking an antagoinst of some serotonin sites. But i don't know that for a fact, i just know if your taking antipsychotics or nueroleptics they will blck serotonin syndrome

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2021, at 3:39:13

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 15, 2021, at 16:32:09

My concern is that not every doctor knows that cyproheptadine can treat serotonin syndrome. What do you guys think? I have an appointment with my psychiatrist in 6 weeks. That is a long time. He could write a note that I put in my wallet that says how it is treated.

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by linkadge on March 16, 2021, at 14:12:06

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2021, at 3:39:13

Hmm.

If you take the dosing slow, I can't see anything happening 'all of a sudden'. However, you could also make yourself a bracelet or card with that information. I think the net effect would be the same.

Linkadge

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 16, 2021, at 22:13:34

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by Lamdage22 on March 16, 2021, at 3:39:13

one thing dangerous is Nardil and all MAO-I A antidepressants, SSRI's are to lesser extent...effexor don't advise to take 5-HTP, but i've taken it with the prozac 80mg, and had no trouble, but it was low doses like 50-100mg. MAOI's are dangerous to do this, nuerolgical doctor could have an awnser but from all this board knows, low dose of effexor should not be harmful, taken with low dose of 5-htp. Higher dose of zyprxa in case of an emergency could be used. It's a serotonin antagonist in some sites. It would have to built up serotonin to be dangeouos, a low dose should not have a dangerou effect.

 

Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 17, 2021, at 0:23:32

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 16, 2021, at 22:13:34

My antidepressant regimen is Effexor 37.5 and Trazodone 75. Yeah maybe I will just get started on 25mg 5-HTP at nighttime for 2 weeks and then 50 and increase by 25mg as long as I either get an effect or side effects.

 

Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today.

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 20, 2021, at 4:41:35

In reply to Re: Can Tryptophan or 5-HTP be used with Antidepressan, posted by Lamdage22 on March 17, 2021, at 0:23:32

I will let you guys know if anything unusual (good or bad) comes up.

 

Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today.

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 22, 2021, at 1:41:49

In reply to Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today., posted by Lamdage22 on March 20, 2021, at 4:41:35

Feeling slightly better. Slightly brighter mood and I get slightly more done slightly more easily. 25mg 5HTP at night for 3-4 days. I also ramped up Iron to 150mg/day.
I am going for a 100-or more Ferritin level. Before that I was on 70mg and it resulted in a blood level of 60. I heard you should get it to 100 or more in order to not have any symptoms. Especially the symptom hair loss. It could be androgenic/age related, but it could also be the result of low Ferritin and Iron.

 

Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today. Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on April 28, 2021, at 13:01:59

In reply to Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today., posted by Lamdage22 on April 22, 2021, at 1:41:49

> Feeling slightly better. Slightly brighter mood and I get slightly more done slightly more easily. 25mg 5HTP at night for 3-4 days. I also ramped up Iron to 150mg/day.
> I am going for a 100-or more Ferritin level. Before that I was on 70mg and it resulted in a blood level of 60. I heard you should get it to 100 or more in order to not have any symptoms. Especially the symptom hair loss. It could be androgenic/age related, but it could also be the result of low Ferritin and Iron.


Biotin?

Have you had your thyroid levels checked. Hypothyroidism can cause hair loss.


- Scott

 

Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today.

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 29, 2021, at 10:04:13

In reply to Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today. Lamdage22, posted by SLS on April 28, 2021, at 13:01:59

The thyroid is fine and I have been getting about 450mcg of Biotin from supllements for 3 years.

 

Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today.

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 30, 2021, at 3:59:58

In reply to Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today., posted by Lamdage22 on April 29, 2021, at 10:04:13

I have reduced the 5HTP to 12.5mg. And I ordered a 0,001g scale. I am feeling somewhat better. 25 mg led to some problems. Pounding heartbeat. But please practice extreme caution if you want to do something similar. 25 mg was likely a bit too much.

Also note that the Venlafaxine and Trazodone is low dose.

No sexual side effects.

 

Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today.

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 30, 2021, at 4:02:41

In reply to Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today., posted by Lamdage22 on April 30, 2021, at 3:59:58

I don't recommend it. I am willing to take risks for myself, but not others.

 

Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today.

Posted by undopaminergic on April 30, 2021, at 6:51:22

In reply to Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today., posted by Lamdage22 on April 30, 2021, at 4:02:41

> I don't recommend it. I am willing to take risks for myself, but not others.

In my opinion this is a very safe supplement, except if you are on MAOIs or high dose SSRIs. It didn't help me, except once when I used it to calm down an intense (hypo)mania that felt a bit too overwhelming with the extreme flight of ideas.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today.

Posted by Lamdage22 on May 6, 2021, at 14:11:54

In reply to Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today., posted by undopaminergic on April 30, 2021, at 6:51:22

Yeah, 25mg was a bit too much. So I reduced it to 12.5, which is 60mg on the scale with the filler. It can weigh mg.

I get more appetite control and somewhat better mood and motivation. It doesn't blow me away, but maybe that is a good thing. MAOI blew me away. In a good way I thought at first...

On 25mg I had some slighter side effects that are associated with Serotonin Syndrome.

You may think all of this is in my head, but I am treating my head, so it is enough if it is in my head! I think I benefit.

 

Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today. Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on May 7, 2021, at 8:31:47

In reply to Re: 5-HTP Experiment begins today., posted by Lamdage22 on May 6, 2021, at 14:11:54

Hi, Lamdage22.

> I get more appetite control and somewhat better mood and motivation. It doesn't blow me away, but maybe that is a good thing. MAOI blew me away. In a good way I thought at first...

I hope you are headed in a positive direction.

I have a few questions:

1. Which MAOI did you take, and at what dosage?
2. In what ways did the MAOI blow you away? Did you like the feeling initially?
3. in what ways did the MAOI have a negative effect on you.

Thanks.


- Scott


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