Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1075804

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Re: Biology, psychology and OCD

Posted by Bill82 on February 17, 2015, at 19:17:59

In reply to Biology, psychology and OCD Bill82, posted by ed_uk2010 on February 17, 2015, at 18:44:02

Sorry my memory is trash recently. Here are three studies relating to the basic statement I made.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12183213/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10828725/


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16951654/

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by ed_uk2010 on February 17, 2015, at 20:54:47

In reply to Re: Biology, psychology and OCD, posted by Bill82 on February 17, 2015, at 19:17:59

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the link.

I wondering whether the changes in activity of PKC occur in response to changes in synaptic serotonin levels.

I read several things about this:

A. Serotonin reuptake transporters are apparently fewer in number in pts with OCD. This could be the brain's attempt to compensate for a serotonin deficit.

B. Activation of of the enzyme PKC results in a decrease in serotonin reuptake. This may occur due to the serotonin transporters being internalised ie. removed from the neuronal cell membrane.

C. Activation of PKC in untreated OCD may be part of the compensatory mechanism described above. It may occur in response to a serotonin deficit, and could compensate partially for this deficit by reducing the number of active serotonin transporters.

D. Chronic treatments with SSRIs seems to reduce the expression of PKC in OCD. If PKC reduces the number of membrane serotonin transporters, you can see why the activity of PKC might be suppressed by SSRIs. It could be a further compensatory mechanism in order to avoid excessive inhibition of serotonin reuptake.

E. Strangely enough, the opposite, increased SERT availability, has been reports in the brains of untreated OCD pts by other researchers. The areas of the brain involved may have been different.

F. The problem with this type of speculation is that no one, including the scientists involed, appear to understand the immense complexity of neurological function very well!

G. I suppose we can say with some certainty that serotonin neurotransmission is closely linked to OCD symptoms, in some way. Whether this is primary, or secondary to some other abnormality is unknown.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 18, 2015, at 0:11:18

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by ed_uk2010 on February 17, 2015, at 20:54:47

Goof points, I just brought this up because as far as I'm aware genetics don't show abnormal sert genes in ocd, so it is an interesting idea of what may be linked to messed up seritonin transmission. Most people also assume it's a problem with neurotransmitters, but this was neat in that it was much different. But I agree the complexity is insane and therapeutically this offers no value as the agents are not medically approved and way to unselective for theraputic use. Also I've been wondering if you guys had any input on life with ocd. At the moment my life is destroyed, and I can't do much except sit or sleep and even then I am under constant stress/pain. If you have had ocd that went away what is it like? And am I right to be slightly saddened I will most likely miss out on my youth?

 

Re: What is OCD? Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 18, 2015, at 17:24:07

In reply to Re: What is OCD?, posted by Bill82 on February 17, 2015, at 14:15:14

Though it suggests potential new therapeutic targets in OCD, I still have a feeling any drug therapies derived from the findings would be augmentations.

Have you ever tried Keppra?

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 18, 2015, at 17:35:07

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 18, 2015, at 0:11:18

>At the moment my life is destroyed, and I can't do much except sit or sleep and even then I am under constant stress/pain.

You're the first person I've met impaired by their imagination.

>If you have had ocd that went away what is it like?

I used to think about killing myself day in and day out. I started taking fluvoxomine and one day the thoughts just stopped.

>am I right to be slightly saddened I will most likely miss out on my youth?

If you stay in the house your youth will be a sad one, indeed.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 18, 2015, at 18:36:49

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 18, 2015, at 17:35:07

If you don't mind me asking,
How is you sexual functioning on fluvoxamine?

How is your mental functioning in terms of cognition memory and general reasoning on fluvoxamine?

How is your general energy/weight gain on it?

What dose and what other meds were you on when it started to work?

 

Re: What is OCD?

Posted by Bill82 on February 18, 2015, at 23:34:31

In reply to Re: What is OCD? Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 18, 2015, at 17:24:07

No have not heard much about it except for keppra rage, but pretty sure that's just an exaggeration.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 20, 2015, at 15:06:06

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 18, 2015, at 18:36:49

My sexual functioning is unaffected by the Fluvoxamine.

Fluvoxamine does not affect my cognition, memory or ability to reason. If anything my memory is improved-and since I'm not overwhelmed by obsessions, I would say my cognition is better as well.

I've had no loss of energy while on Fluvoxamine and no weight gain either.

I was on 900 mg of Lithium,240 mg of Geodon, 70 mg of Vyvanse and 100 mg of Fluvoxamine when my OCD just disappeared.

Eric

call me anytime you want btw - 720-273-7293

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by SLS on February 21, 2015, at 7:37:53

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 20, 2015, at 15:06:06

> My sexual functioning is unaffected by the Fluvoxamine.
>
> Fluvoxamine does not affect my cognition, memory or ability to reason. If anything my memory is improved-and since I'm not overwhelmed by obsessions, I would say my cognition is better as well.
>
> I've had no loss of energy while on Fluvoxamine and no weight gain either.
>
> I was on 900 mg of Lithium,240 mg of Geodon, 70 mg of Vyvanse and 100 mg of Fluvoxamine when my OCD just disappeared.

Gosh! That's terrific!


- Scott

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 13:37:53

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by SLS on February 21, 2015, at 7:37:53

Got my genetic testing back some interesting stuff. Was prescribed lamotragine so we will see how that goes. Worried about memory or libido problems but have told myself I will just white knuckle it until he says to stop, unless of course I have serious side effects such as steven johnson rash or other allergic reactions. Anyways check out the results and if you have any hhoughts post them I'd love to hear.

SLC6A4- result-L(A)/L(G)

Serotonin Transporter-patient exhibits a mutation of the serotonin transporter associated with reduced reuptake of seritonin, less satisfactory response to ssri, and a potentially greater risk for adverse effects from ssri. This variant has also been associated in literature with lower stress resilience and higher rates of PTSD.

5ht2c -Serotonin Receptor result- C/C

Serotonin has potent satiety signaling activity and 5ht2c antagonism has been shown to lead to increased food intake. This patient exhibits a variant of the 5ht2c receptor which has been associated with satiety in the hypothalamus.

CACNA1C Calcium Channel-result G/A

The patient exhibits a variant in the gene coding for a subunit L-type voltage gated calcium channel. Days regulation of this channel has been associated with changes in neuronal depolarization, amygdala volume in schizophrenics and bipolar patients, frontal hippocampus connectivity, disruptions in cognition in both schizophrenic and bipolar patients, and has been hypothesized to be related to glutamate signaling. Clinically has been associated with conditions charecteriEd by mood instability or lability.

Mtfhr-impared folic acid metabolism and blunted activation in the anterior cingulate.

CYP2D6 - cytochrome P450 2D6- result - intermediate metabolizer

Reduced hepatic degradation and higher plasma levels of flouxetine fluvoxamine paroxatine sertraline duloxetine venlafaxine mirtazipine nefazadone apriprazole haloperidol iloperidone risperidone atomoxetine amphetamine-dextrothetamine methamphetamine olanzapine codeine methadone tramadol vortioxetine TCA's phenothiazines

CPY2C19 Cytochrome p450 2C19- result - ultra rapid metabolizer

Poorer efficiency and reduced plasma levels of citalopram escitalopram diazepam clomipramine imipramine trimipramine

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 15:36:53

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 13:37:53

>Was prescribed lamotragine so we will see how that goes. Worried about memory or libido problems

Lamictal may affect your memory, however I doubt it will affect your libido.

Explain to me why you are afraid drugs will affect your libido.

>reduced reuptake of seritonin, less satisfactory response to ssri, and a potentially greater risk for adverse effects from ssri.

this explains a lot and all around sucks.

Have you ever been on Mirtazapine?

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 15:54:53

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 15:36:53

I don't really know to be honest, one of my first obbsessions was that a girl I was talking to and really liked/got along with was starting to get closer to me, and as I was a virgin at the time I was worried of becoming either impotent or uninterested in here in the future and then losing her. Weird as hell but it's just an older obsession I guess so I worry about it. Do you say lamictal May effect memory from personal experience or from studies. My memory is already partly messed up so for it to get worse would suck, but if it helps I'm willing to try it. I wonder if the biaxin or minocycline could be behind some of my current memory issues.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 15:57:25

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 15:36:53

Also yes and I had to discontinue due to rage/extreme appitite and gaining 20lbs in the span of 2 weeks

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:02:11

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 15:54:53

>I wonder if the biaxin or minocycline could be behind some of my current memory issues.

According to studies, minocycline improves memory.

Why are you taking Biaxin?

>Do you say lamictal May effect memory from personal experience or from studies.

About 3% of Lamictal users will experience some form of memory impairment. There are a lot of case reports on the web and I experienced it myself.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:05:20

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 15:57:25

You really need serotogenic therapy. Have you tried Effexor? According to the algorithm for the treatment of ocd put out by the APA, Effexor is recommended when ssris fail.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:06:56

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:02:11

I tested positive for borellia, bartonella, babes is and still have very high levels of igg for mycoplasma p. So I figured why not cover all the bases as I'm desperate and try antibiotics for those. And that's to bad, I presume it was short term memory?

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:08:12

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 15:57:25

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2008/0701/p131.html - here's APA treatment algorithm.

Have you been on an MAOI?

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:13:13

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:06:56

While your on the antibiotic tip, you should read up on D-cycloserine.

Also, I bet Keppra would be more effective for your OCD than Lamictal.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:14:05

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:06:56

>I presume it was short term memory?

Yes sir.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:25:52

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:08:12

No havnt tried a maoi, looked at parnate a little but the insomnia seemed intense. And as for effexor I have heard too many horror stories about that, and my experiences with douloxetine was awful, extreme exacerbation in tics and near paralyzing anxiety/ocd thoughts. Other than ssri which the DNA test said don't look to promising there's really only mirtazipine nefazadone trazadone and then ones not approved by the fda I would have to order without a prescription. And none of those seem to do much for ocd that I know of.

I have heard of keppra, what makes you think it would be better? From what I have read it can induce anxiety/irratibility quite commonly.

Have wondered about d cycloserine, have not been able to find any reviews of it so have never really gotten the desire to peruse it, and most docs don't know about it.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:42:45

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:25:52

>looked at parnate a little but the insomnia seemed intense

Nardil is the only MAOI I've read substantive stuff on regarding OCD.

>I have heard of keppra, what makes you think it would be better? From what I have read it can induce anxiety/irratibility quite commonly.

I've taken it and it nearly obliterated my anxiety. Stanford did a study but they haven't published the results yet. Its a powerful glutamate antagonist(much more powerful than Lamictal) and yes it CAN cause anxiety as a side effect and Keppra rage is infamous but usually easily treated with B6 supplements.

Maybe Tramadol might work for you.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:49:22

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:42:45

That's neat I was actually thinking of pursuing keppra but was put off by the rage aspect. Did it help your ocd? What about the sexual s/e or memory cognition effects? And yea nardil is a thought, would reap havoc on my ocd though with it's side effects haha. Wonder if it would have more of an effect than ssri due to it's different moa.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 18:12:08

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:49:22

>Did it help your ocd? What about the sexual s/e or memory cognition effects?

Keppra helped my OCD immensely - it short circuited the anxiety the OCD caused. I would have an OCD thought and would have no anxiety about the thought. I would still be taking it but I don't need it since starting the Luvox.

I had no side effects from the Keppra.

>Wonder if it would have more of an effect than ssri due to it's different moa.

MAOIs are not tried and tested when it comes to treating OCD. I don't know if it would be more effective than an SSRI.

REALLY...Try Tramadol.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 19:59:25

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 18:12:08

Yea I tried to order it once but caught the guys in the act scamming our card, and I think it just became a narcotic in the USA so you can't anymore, not sure if I could get it prescribed anymore, looks really good though, I know when I had morphine for menningitis in the hospital my ocd vanished. And as for maoi's I wonder for me, since my sert transporters are already not very active, if decreasing the rate of te breakdown of serotonin would effect my ocd more than blocking an already blocked sert.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 25, 2015, at 11:12:16

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 19:59:25

Tramadol is terrific for OCD as it works in three different fashions which are beneficial in treating OCD. It is an NMDA antagonist. It is an opiate and it is a weak SNRI. It worked for me as monotherapy.

I don't think your SERT is blocked already. What makes you think that?

Eric


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