Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1012702

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

any namenda/memantine experiences?

Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 10, 2012, at 5:42:11

I'm trying to find something that can help with focus and reading comprehension. Stimulants have been hit-and-miss in that regard. I've read at least one study where Memantine dramatically improved cognition in a couple of depressed patients and was just wondering if anyone (depressed or otherwise) noticed any benefits.

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? g_g_g_unit

Posted by SLS on March 10, 2012, at 6:51:23

In reply to any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 10, 2012, at 5:42:11

> I'm trying to find something that can help with focus and reading comprehension. Stimulants have been hit-and-miss in that regard. I've read at least one study where Memantine dramatically improved cognition in a couple of depressed patients and was just wondering if anyone (depressed or otherwise) noticed any benefits.

I tried memantine while taking Parnate, nortriptyline, Abilify, and Lamictal. I found it to be a very tolerable drug. I don't recall having any side effects. I really can't judge its effectiveness because I stopped taking it when I began to feel worse. It turned out that my deterioration was due to my taking an inferior generic version of Lamictal. I never went back to retry memantine subsequently. A recent study reported that memantine was NOT effective in augmenting Lamictal in bipolar disorder, despite some people initially experiencing a transient, mild improvement. Overall, clinical trials of memantine for treating depression have been equivocal.

I think memantine is worth a try in combination with antidepressants or stimulants. It is a benign drug, albeit somewhat weak. It is much weaker than ketamine at the NMDA glutamate receptor. I wish I could be more definitive in relating to you my personal experience with memantine, but I did not take it for more than a few weeks. I felt as though my thoughts were clearer and had more mental energy. However, these were not robust effects. I am reluctant to generalize my experience with memantine to others. All I can say is that memantine produced a small, perceptible improvement in depression, particularly with mental energy and cognition.

All in all, I have nothing that I can guarantee you. I can't guarantee you that memantine will work. I can't guarantee you that memantine won't work. However, I would just comment that memantine has a favorable side-effect profile.

I'm sorry that I couldn't be more helpful. However, I would not be very optimistic that memantine will help as monotherapy to treat depression.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?Volume=163&page=153&journalID=13

"This study failed to show that memantine, a low-to-moderate-affinity noncompetitive NMDA antagonist, has antidepressant effects in patients with major depression"

"Despite these negative results, it remains possible that more potent NMDA blockade may have utility in the treatment of depression for some patients. Memantine, in contrast to ketamine, has lower affinity for the NMDA receptor, has much faster open-channel blocking/unblocking kinetics, and exhibits a different type of channel closure (i.e., "partial trapping" as opposed to "trapping block" properties) (6). Such differences might explain the lack of antidepressant properties observed with memantine in the present trial."


- Scott

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?

Posted by Tomatheus on March 10, 2012, at 14:55:48

In reply to any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 10, 2012, at 5:42:11

g_g_g_unit,

If my memory serves me correctly, I lasted three days on memantine. I stopped taking it because of a worsening of my depressive symptoms, particularly diminished energy and psychomotor retardation. I didn't notice any improvement in my cognition while I was on memantine, but then again, I only stayed on the medication for three days.

Tomatheus

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? SLS

Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 11, 2012, at 3:03:18

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on March 10, 2012, at 6:51:23

>
> I tried memantine while taking Parnate, nortriptyline, Abilify, and Lamictal. I found it to be a very tolerable drug. I don't recall having any side effects. I really can't judge its effectiveness because I stopped taking it when I began to feel worse. It turned out that my deterioration was due to my taking an inferior generic version of Lamictal. I never went back to retry memantine subsequently. A recent study reported that memantine was NOT effective in augmenting Lamictal in bipolar disorder, despite some people initially experiencing a transient, mild improvement. Overall, clinical trials of memantine for treating depression have been equivocal.
>
> I think memantine is worth a try in combination with antidepressants or stimulants. It is a benign drug, albeit somewhat weak. It is much weaker than ketamine at the NMDA glutamate receptor. I wish I could be more definitive in relating to you my personal experience with memantine, but I did not take it for more than a few weeks. I felt as though my thoughts were clearer and had more mental energy. However, these were not robust effects. I am reluctant to generalize my experience with memantine to others. All I can say is that memantine produced a small, perceptible improvement in depression, particularly with mental energy and cognition.
>
> All in all, I have nothing that I can guarantee you. I can't guarantee you that memantine will work. I can't guarantee you that memantine won't work. However, I would just comment that memantine has a favorable side-effect profile.
>
> I'm sorry that I couldn't be more helpful. However, I would not be very optimistic that memantine will help as monotherapy to treat depression.

Thanks Scott. I didn't really plan on using Memantine as monotherapy for depression. My main, hope, like I say, is that I may be able to improve certain cognitive problems. Either I would add it to the Parnate I'm currently taking, or whatever else I end up on in the future.

I do have prior Memantine experience. I found a low-ish dose (10mg a day) dramatically improved my anxiety and ability to make decisions, but that at 20mg there were some unpleasant side-effects which made me discontinue. I wasn't on either dose very long though, so I should've given it more time.

The only problem is my psychiatrist won't prescribe it. My understanding is it's really safe and has a low side-effect profile, and so all I'd have to really do is circumvent my guilt over self-medicating.

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?

Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 11, 2012, at 3:10:15

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by Tomatheus on March 10, 2012, at 14:55:48

Here's the study I was thinking of .. My only hesitation is that I'm aware that there seems to be a stimulant-effect at lower doses which might account for a rapid improvement in cognition. I noticed something similar during my week spent at 5mg. However, the girl in the first case study did continue to experience gains over a month ..

Dear Editor,

Bipolar patients can often show cognitive deficits, which are sometimes not associated with acute affective episodes.1 In the most severe cases, cognitive deficits are disabling and may interfere with treatment adherence.

Cholinesterase inhibitors are used in patients with Alzheimer Disease in order to delay cognitive impairment. Donepezil was reported as a useful add-on medication in treatment-resistant bipolar patients in a case series report.2 However, there have also been reports of mania, induced by donepezil and galantamine.3-4

Memantine is an effective drug for the treatment of moderate-to-severe cognitive impairment related to Alzheimer Disease.5 We are reporting two cases of treatment-resistant bipolar disorder patients who showed substantial cognitive and mood symptom improvements.

Case 1 (Table 1): a 29-year-old female fashion stylist with bipolar disorder type II and bulimia nervosa, who used to read and had been able to write short stories, was suffering from severe depression over the last 2 years, having spent most of her time in bed. She was unable to read a newspaper or to write a single letter. Lamotrigine and lithium were useful for 2 years, but they lost their efficacy. Other mood stabilizers (divalproex, carbamazepine, oxcarbazepine) were tried with no success. She did not tolerate some atypical antipsychotics, such as aripiprazol, olanzapine, quetiapine, risperidone and ziprasidone, due to severe tachycardia or reported lack of effect of these medications. In August 2005 she received memantine as an add-on treatment up to 20 mg/day. During the first week following treatment with memantine, she could go to the computer and wrote a short story, spending most of the time out of bed. After one month's treatment, she showed a moderate improvement in psychomotricity and depressive mood, along with cognitive gains.

Case 2 (Table 2): a 32-year-old male judge (retired), with bipolar disorder type I, who had recently suffered from treatment-resistant mixed states, mostly with depressive symptoms. He reported mental incapacity, difficulty in concentrating and in performing abstract reasoning. He also reported hypomanic episodes characterized by compulsive shopping, binge eating and lack of insight. Previous unsuccessful treatments had included divalproex, oxcarbazepine, olanzapine, ziprasidone and haloperidol. The introduction of memantine up to 10 mg/day, in November 2005, promoted a rapid improvement in depressive symptoms, concentration and performance of tasks that were hitherto considered impossible, such as reading. Despite the maintenance of impulsivity, his insight into the compulsive shopping behavior and binge eating improved.

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?

Posted by SLS on March 11, 2012, at 5:35:06

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 11, 2012, at 3:10:15

I would endeavor to try memantine while you are still taking Parnate.

I don't want to see you trigger compulsive self-medication. Perhaps you could bring in something written to give to your doctor to review. If it were me, I would try memantine anyway. If it works, I would walk into my doctor's office with a smile on my face and tell him that I am responding to treatment. Let him say, "That's great!". I would then say, "But, you probably won't be very happy with me. I am responding to memantine. I was desperate." This has worked with me in the past. :-)

I still have some memantine laying around. It would be the very first thing I would add to my treatment if my current antidepressant response plateaus as being only a partial improvement. I did like the way I felt on memantine when I added it to Parnate a few years ago. As I mentioned, I discontinued memantine when I began to deteriorate. The deterioration turned out to be the result of a switch from Lamictal to an inferior generic lamotrigine. I'm not sure why I didn't return to memantine afterwards.

You do know that memantine has been used occasionally in Germany to treat depression? This is in addition to Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. Perhaps the reason memantine hasn't been used more often for depression in Germany is because it might not have been used as an adjunct to other antidepressants. Results with monotherapy have been disappointing.

The following are the results of a study looking at memantine for treating depression as monotherapy. I happen to like Zarate and his NIH research team.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16390905

If your doctor is depending on monotherapeutic studies of memantine, he might be neglecting its possible use as an adjunct.

We might not see the results of the following study for awhile yet:

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00344682

Here is one for anxiety disorders:

http://www.hindawi.com/crim/psychiatry/2012/749796/


- Scott

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?

Posted by papillon2 on March 11, 2012, at 7:37:41

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by SLS on March 11, 2012, at 5:35:06

Interesting reading, gentlemen. Do you know if this is prescribed off-label much in Australia, G? How are things otherwise?

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? Tomatheus

Posted by novelagent on March 11, 2012, at 13:14:13

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by Tomatheus on March 10, 2012, at 14:55:48

memantine is like an antipsychotic or benzo-- until you reach a steady state for a few days of taking the med at the same time of day each day (in memantine's case, twice a day) you will feel mentally retarded.

I've been on 10 mg 2x/day for 3 weeks and feel nothing-- not sure if i takes longer to kick in...


> g_g_g_unit,
>
> If my memory serves me correctly, I lasted three days on memantine. I stopped taking it because of a worsening of my depressive symptoms, particularly diminished energy and psychomotor retardation. I didn't notice any improvement in my cognition while I was on memantine, but then again, I only stayed on the medication for three days.
>
> Tomatheus

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? g_g_g_unit

Posted by novelagent on March 11, 2012, at 13:18:39

In reply to any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 10, 2012, at 5:42:11

try galantamine with 1gram of CDP Choline twice a day. In clinical trials for schizophrenia, this combo was effective as a cognitive enhancer-- which has failed as monotherapy in the past.


> I'm trying to find something that can help with focus and reading comprehension. Stimulants have been hit-and-miss in that regard. I've read at least one study where Memantine dramatically improved cognition in a couple of depressed patients and was just wondering if anyone (depressed or otherwise) noticed any benefits.

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? novelagent

Posted by SLS on March 11, 2012, at 13:47:32

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? g_g_g_unit, posted by novelagent on March 11, 2012, at 13:18:39

> try galantamine with 1gram of CDP Choline twice a day. In clinical trials for schizophrenia, this combo was effective as a cognitive enhancer-- which has failed as monotherapy in the past.

That's interesting. Thanks for the information.

It seems that galantamine enhances dopamine release in the VTA via nicotinic receptor potentiation. This effect is separate from its ACh cholinesterase inhibition. The nicotinic receptor effects occur at a lower dosage than enzyme inhibition. Perhaps lower dosages will prove sufficient to treat depression. This is good because cholinesterase inhibitors can be depressogenic. Less might be more.


- Scott

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?

Posted by bleauberry on March 11, 2012, at 14:52:11

In reply to any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 10, 2012, at 5:42:11

It made me feel pretty much like, well, bad. Worse than I was for sure. I think it may have potential for some people, and there have been a few positive experiences spoken of here in the last couple years or so.

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? SLS

Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2012, at 10:05:44

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by SLS on March 11, 2012, at 5:35:06

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the information. I was trying to have Memantine prescribed for OCD, rather than depression. It seems like there's more than enough evidence to justify its use in that regard - and I did receive the blessing of a neurologist I was seeing at the time, who wrote to my psychiatrist explaining that it was completely benign in his view.

To be fair, my psychiatrist did consider my proposal before deciding against it. He said he wasn't comfortable using an agent he'd never prescribed before, but that he would consider referral to an anxiety specialist in the future if more conventional treatment options failed.

That just seems like too much hassle in my opinion. I'm not sure whether I'd disclose I was taking it or not, but if it could have me anywhere near a state where I could read or concentrate to my satisfaction again, then it would be worth the betrayal :)

> I would endeavor to try memantine while you are still taking Parnate.
>
> I don't want to see you trigger compulsive self-medication. Perhaps you could bring in something written to give to your doctor to review. If it were me, I would try memantine anyway. If it works, I would walk into my doctor's office with a smile on my face and tell him that I am responding to treatment. Let him say, "That's great!". I would then say, "But, you probably won't be very happy with me. I am responding to memantine. I was desperate." This has worked with me in the past. :-)
>
> I still have some memantine laying around. It would be the very first thing I would add to my treatment if my current antidepressant response plateaus as being only a partial improvement. I did like the way I felt on memantine when I added it to Parnate a few years ago. As I mentioned, I discontinued memantine when I began to deteriorate. The deterioration turned out to be the result of a switch from Lamictal to an inferior generic lamotrigine. I'm not sure why I didn't return to memantine afterwards.
>
> You do know that memantine has been used occasionally in Germany to treat depression? This is in addition to Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. Perhaps the reason memantine hasn't been used more often for depression in Germany is because it might not have been used as an adjunct to other antidepressants. Results with monotherapy have been disappointing.
>
> The following are the results of a study looking at memantine for treating depression as monotherapy. I happen to like Zarate and his NIH research team.
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16390905
>
> If your doctor is depending on monotherapeutic studies of memantine, he might be neglecting its possible use as an adjunct.
>
> We might not see the results of the following study for awhile yet:
>
> http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00344682
>
> Here is one for anxiety disorders:
>
> http://www.hindawi.com/crim/psychiatry/2012/749796/
>
>
> - Scott

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? papillon2

Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2012, at 10:12:49

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by papillon2 on March 11, 2012, at 7:37:41

> Interesting reading, gentlemen. Do you know if this is prescribed off-label much in Australia, G? How are things otherwise?

Hey papillon. I think cost may be an issue with off-label use, since a monthly script can set you back 100$+. Otherwise, I can't really answer your question - one woman I spoke to knew someone in her clinic who used it in Parkinson's patients; my personal psychiatrist had never heard of it .. neither had my GP, but he was willing to prescribe it (though I declined due to not wanting to go behind my psychiatrist's back).

I'm okay, otherwise. Not as despairingly depressed as I was. I'm taking a very low dose of Parnate which helps me socialize and do some basic things during the day, which I'm thankful for, but it's scary to see how inert and dysfunctional I was in comparison. Sleep, however, is a major problem. If I don't take zopiclone I'm literally up the entire night, and if I do take it, I'm hit by rebound depression the next evening. I hope my psychiatrist has a solution at our next appointment.

How is everything with you?

Thanks for your concern, by the way, it is appreciated.

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? novelagent

Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2012, at 10:13:48

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? g_g_g_unit, posted by novelagent on March 11, 2012, at 13:18:39

Hmm, I think choline is contraindicated in OCD?

What are you taking Memantine for?

> try galantamine with 1gram of CDP Choline twice a day. In clinical trials for schizophrenia, this combo was effective as a cognitive enhancer-- which has failed as monotherapy in the past.
>
>
> > I'm trying to find something that can help with focus and reading comprehension. Stimulants have been hit-and-miss in that regard. I've read at least one study where Memantine dramatically improved cognition in a couple of depressed patients and was just wondering if anyone (depressed or otherwise) noticed any benefits.
>
>

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?

Posted by papillon2 on March 16, 2012, at 1:50:42

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? papillon2, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2012, at 10:12:49

I am so glad you are feeling a bit better. :-)

I am ok-ish. I'm getting married in 8 days so am a bit anxious, but I've also had brief moments where I've felt excited, which is a nice change. Still, there's nothing quite like not knowing if you're going to be super depressed on your wedding day. With psychomotor retardation the likes of which I experience, it could be the slowest walk down the aisle in recorded history. LOL. I'm hoping adrenaline will kick in to keep me going, and that the anticipated crash the day after will not be too great.

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? papillon2

Posted by SLS on March 16, 2012, at 5:15:19

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by papillon2 on March 16, 2012, at 1:50:42

> I am ok-ish. I'm getting married in 8 days

What a joy it was to read this. Congratulations and mazel tov!

I hope it is a great day for you. I was ill when I got married. I think the released adrenalin and caffeine helped.

How does caffeine affect you?

I guess your wedding day is not the best day to experiment with caffeine.

I have learned that I can get a significant energy boost from caffeine, especially if I otherwise abstain. Also, it takes a relatively small amount to give me energy. Too much has the opposite effect on me. It makes me sluggish and fatigued. Caffeine does more for my psychomotor retardation than Dexedrine or Adderal. Of course, the right antidepressant treatment will wipe it out entirely.

Caffeine helped get me through life. I would drive 2 hours each day to spend a half-hour studying affective disorders at a medical school library. Even then, I still had to skim written material in order to get through it due to impaired concentration. I had to go 5 days a week to accomplish anything worthwhile. I would wait until I got to the library to take the caffeine. It would give me between 30 - 45 minutes of improved concentration before pooping-out on me.

I used sleep-deprivation from time to time if I wanted to read things word-for-word instead of skimming. Unfortunately, I really paid for the few hours of improved concentration. I would feel worse once I allowed myself to sleep.

Anyway, I sincerely wish you and your bride a wonderful life together.


- Scott

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? SLS

Posted by novelagent on March 22, 2012, at 12:01:15

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? novelagent, posted by SLS on March 11, 2012, at 13:47:32

I think depression sounds more like it's a sign of toxicity than it is a general side effect. When I took Aricept, it made me, if anything, a tad manic (and I'm not bipolar)-- quick thoughts, only in a useful way (as opposed to racing thoughts, they were just quick thoughts-- in my writing, in my speaking during presentations-- words seemed more fluid. I believe this is related to its effect on verbal fluency.

However, I did get dysphoric at times, but only for a few hours-- it was definitely related to the fact Aricept potentiated my Desoxyn, and when I take anything above the therapeutic threshold of Desoxyn, I get dysphoric-- so if I took less Desoxyn, the dysphoria went away. It made me more sensitive to my desoxyn, so it requires a lowering of a stimulant if it's taken together (along with at least halving the dose of Aricept-- 10mg of Aricept would have made me nuts).

The problem with cholinergic drugs is, at least with Aricept, anyway, is that it made me incredibly anxious. This might be because I was combining it with Desoxyn. I was also taking klonopin, so I was fine, but I would not take it without klonopin. I'm presently poor, so I see a crappy resident who thinks klonopin is like heroin.

I've noticed now that I'm poor, docs like to suddenly bestow their wisdom on the dangers of benzodiazepines on me. When I paid them $300 for 5 minute appointments, they thought anxiety deserved to get treated...

anyhow, back to your point: cholinergic drugs aren't depressing; in schizophrenia trials, it's common for patients to ask for them to be continued at the end of the trial, as a result of their mood-brightening effect. I don't know of the rate of depression or dysphoria on them, but my guess is it's dose-dependent, like I said earlier.


> > try galantamine with 1gram of CDP Choline twice a day. In clinical trials for schizophrenia, this combo was effective as a cognitive enhancer-- which has failed as monotherapy in the past.
>
> That's interesting. Thanks for the information.
>
> It seems that galantamine enhances dopamine release in the VTA via nicotinic receptor potentiation. This effect is separate from its ACh cholinesterase inhibition. The nicotinic receptor effects occur at a lower dosage than enzyme inhibition. Perhaps lower dosages will prove sufficient to treat depression. This is good because cholinesterase inhibitors can be depressogenic. Less might be more.
>
>
> - Scott

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?

Posted by Novelagent on March 22, 2012, at 12:43:44

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? novelagent, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2012, at 10:13:48


I'm not sure, but it's just a supplement... CDP choline is what you'd want. Not sure.

I'm taking memantine-- or was- I ran out after a month ad can't afford it from an overseas pharmacy anymore-- I was taking it to help me learn a language.

My doc won't prescribe me a cognitive enhancer. I'm looking for a new one.

> Hmm, I think choline is contraindicated in OCD?
>
> What are you taking Memantine for?
>
> > try galantamine with 1gram of CDP Choline twice a day. In clinical trials for schizophrenia, this combo was effective as a cognitive enhancer-- which has failed as monotherapy in the past.
> >
> >
> > > I'm trying to find something that can help with focus and reading comprehension. Stimulants have been hit-and-miss in that regard. I've read at least one study where Memantine dramatically improved cognition in a couple of depressed patients and was just wondering if anyone (depressed or otherwise) noticed any benefits.
> >
> >
>
>

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?

Posted by Novelagent on March 22, 2012, at 14:04:36

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? papillon2, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 12, 2012, at 10:12:49


Try emsam with DLPA. Had it and found immediate results (due to the nature of the combo). Stopped craving sleep after a year and a half of trying everything else. It works, trust me.

If it doesn't, there's always electroshock... Which can cause memory loss for a couple of weeks preceding things, but there's not much to lose if one's only memories are comprised of sleeping...

> > Interesting reading, gentlemen. Do you know if this is prescribed off-label much in Australia, G? How are things otherwise?
>
> Hey papillon. I think cost may be an issue with off-label use, since a monthly script can set you back 100$+. Otherwise, I can't really answer your question - one woman I spoke to knew someone in her clinic who used it in Parkinson's patients; my personal psychiatrist had never heard of it .. neither had my GP, but he was willing to prescribe it (though I declined due to not wanting to go behind my psychiatrist's back).
>
> I'm okay, otherwise. Not as despairingly depressed as I was. I'm taking a very low dose of Parnate which helps me socialize and do some basic things during the day, which I'm thankful for, but it's scary to see how inert and dysfunctional I was in comparison. Sleep, however, is a major problem. If I don't take zopiclone I'm literally up the entire night, and if I do take it, I'm hit by rebound depression the next evening. I hope my psychiatrist has a solution at our next appointment.
>
> How is everything with you?
>
> Thanks for your concern, by the way, it is appreciated.

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? novelagent

Posted by SLS on March 22, 2012, at 14:58:30

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? SLS, posted by novelagent on March 22, 2012, at 12:01:15

> I think depression sounds more like it's a sign of toxicity than it is a general side effect.

I don't think so. Cholinesterase inhibitors tend to be depressogenic at therapeutic dosages. In addition, they are more likely to reduce mania than to trigger it. However, as we both know, reactions to psychoactive drugs can be quite variable.

> anyhow, back to your point: cholinergic drugs aren't depressing;

Cholinesterase inhibitors can be, although not universally so. They even make rats more depressed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=donepezil%20depressogenic

http://books.google.com/books?id=X7XLhltqsv8C&pg=RA3-PA24&lpg=RA3-PA24&dq=cholinesterase+inhibitors+depressogenic&source=bl&ots=d61SRUqsE3&sig=GvQm5aacima3iDmZ6yLmSzK8U7k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xX1rT4q5DaTf0QHU8b3UBg&ved=0CDYQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=cholinesterase%20inhibitors%20depressogenic&f=false

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3076045/

"Furthermore, in contrast to ChEI trials in dementia, where improvements in neuropsychiatric symptoms have been noted 15, 16, we detected a clinically significant increase in recurrent episodes of major depression. This observation may be consistent with the cholinergic hypothesis of mood disorders 19, 20, which holds that persons with depression show cholinergic hypersensitivity to depressogenic effects of cholinoceptive agents. The observation is also consistent with a recent report of scopolamines antidepressant efficacy in major depressive disorder.21 Such episodes may further amplify cognitive impairment and associated disability, thus offsetting the temporary gains in cognition observed earlier on. The positive effects of donepezil--modest cognitive and functional enhancement and slowing of dementia conversion rate-- must be weighed against the risk of recurrence of major depression in those with mild cognitive impairment and possible appearance of manic symptoms and worsening of suicidal ideation or behavior."

From what I have seen, cholinesterase inhibitors are of little value in mental illness. They don't even help with depression in Alzheimers, and they don't help with cognition in depression.

I guess we currently have a difference of opinion.


- Scott

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? Novelagent

Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 23, 2012, at 21:04:31

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by Novelagent on March 22, 2012, at 12:43:44


> I'm taking memantine-- or was- I ran out after a month ad can't afford it from an overseas pharmacy anymore-- I was taking it to help me learn a language.

Were there any benefits, or did you run out too early to say? Any negative (dissociative) effects?
>
> My doc won't prescribe me a cognitive enhancer. I'm looking for a new one.

A new doctor or cognitive enhancer?

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? g_g_g_unit

Posted by novelagent on March 25, 2012, at 17:42:59

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? Novelagent, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 23, 2012, at 21:04:31

looking for a new doc, and to get galantamine.

>
> > I'm taking memantine-- or was- I ran out after a month ad can't afford it from an overseas pharmacy anymore-- I was taking it to help me learn a language.
>
> Were there any benefits, or did you run out too early to say? Any negative (dissociative) effects?
> >
> > My doc won't prescribe me a cognitive enhancer. I'm looking for a new one.
>
> A new doctor or cognitive enhancer?

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? novelagent

Posted by phidippus on April 3, 2012, at 18:45:37

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? g_g_g_unit, posted by novelagent on March 25, 2012, at 17:42:59

Its a weak anxiolytic and a fine D2 agonist.

Eric

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?

Posted by Novelagent on April 5, 2012, at 15:23:04

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? novelagent, posted by phidippus on April 3, 2012, at 18:45:37

> Its a weak anxiolytic and a fine D2 agonist.
>
> Eric

I agree with all the reports-- It's just not a useful drug-- doesn't work as a cognitive enhanced (my lumosity scores stayed flat while I took it) and I have no idea how it reduces anxiety but def didn't do that for me.

 

Re: any namenda/memantine experiences? Novelagent

Posted by phidippus on April 5, 2012, at 16:28:26

In reply to Re: any namenda/memantine experiences?, posted by Novelagent on April 5, 2012, at 15:23:04

Maybe it yields a useful effect at a really high dose...I wonder what the max dose is.

Eric


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