Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 902717

Shown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?

Posted by morganpmiller on June 23, 2009, at 5:34:00

More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?
From what I have read, it appears that Parnate is more stimulating and more likely to cause insomnia. I also heard that Nardil would be best of anxiety. Need to make a decision as to which one might be best for me. I have had sleep issues for a while now. I am some form of bipolar. I have anxiety and I feel wiped out, no energy. It's not a good combo. I think my anxiety is part of the reason I am so fatigued all the time.

 

Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate? morganpmiller

Posted by Phillipa on June 23, 2009, at 12:13:01

In reply to More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?, posted by morganpmiller on June 23, 2009, at 5:34:00

Morganville I'd guess the same thing having no experience with either from what I've read parnate is more stimulating. Look for some thread in archives by SLS or just google parnate in archieves as many on this med. From what I've read nardil is more for social anxiety. How you get a lot of responses. Phillipa

 

Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?

Posted by AdamCanada2 on June 23, 2009, at 13:02:04

In reply to More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?, posted by morganpmiller on June 23, 2009, at 5:34:00

When I took Parnate (prior to a high dose ruining the mechanism of action) it was incredibly stimulating, energizing, and also caused the most extreme insomnia any med has ever given me. It did lift my mood moderately and for anxiety may have helped a bit...

Nardil I am on now but need to lower my dose. Nardil is said to be one of the best social anxiety medications out there. Also even when i was on a lower dose of Nardil it did not cause any insomnia that I could notice whereas Parnate caused insomnia very rapidly.

 

Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?

Posted by morganpmiller on June 23, 2009, at 21:11:37

In reply to Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate? morganpmiller, posted by Phillipa on June 23, 2009, at 12:13:01

Morganville that's funny..I've been called Morgantown before also..thanks Phillipa

 

Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?

Posted by morganpmiller on June 23, 2009, at 21:12:43

In reply to Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?, posted by AdamCanada2 on June 23, 2009, at 13:02:04

Adam, do you still have energy on Nardil? I have tons of anxiety and no energy. I feel like I'm drunk sometimes

 

Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate? morganpmiller

Posted by Phillipa on June 23, 2009, at 22:14:00

In reply to Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?, posted by morganpmiller on June 23, 2009, at 21:11:37

Well oops is all I can say now you own a town with your name name your state you wish it to be in. Sorry Phillipa

 

Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?

Posted by morganpmiller on June 23, 2009, at 22:16:27

In reply to Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?, posted by AdamCanada2 on June 23, 2009, at 13:02:04

> When I took Parnate (prior to a high dose ruining the mechanism of action) it was incredibly stimulating, energizing, and also caused the most extreme insomnia any med has ever given me. It did lift my mood moderately and for anxiety may have helped a bit...
>
> Nardil I am on now but need to lower my dose. Nardil is said to be one of the best social anxiety medications out there. Also even when i was on a lower dose of Nardil it did not cause any insomnia that I could notice whereas Parnate caused insomnia very rapidly.

Can you keep me posted on your Nardil experience? I have read about people have daytime fatigue on it. I know everyone is different. I wish there was some wonder MAO I that was a sort of cross between Parnate and Nardil.

I am trying desperately to achieve what I had for years on zoloft alone; slept like a baby, had plenty of energy, not noticeable side effects-at least nothing that was easily manageable. I just felt good as long as I did most of the right things. I even felt pretty good when I was drinking way too much. I don't need to be able to drink a lot again.

Parnate and Nardil both sound promising. I really can't wait to see my new psychiatrist and find out what they think

 

Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?

Posted by morganpmiller on June 23, 2009, at 22:36:07

In reply to Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate? morganpmiller, posted by Phillipa on June 23, 2009, at 22:14:00

Ha ha..I just thought it was cool how you called me Morganville..just don't ever do it again! just kidding

 

Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?

Posted by morganpmiller on June 23, 2009, at 22:42:40

In reply to Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?, posted by AdamCanada2 on June 23, 2009, at 13:02:04

Yeah this is a tough call form me. I don't want insomnia but for some reason I want to try Parnate over Nardil.

So Adam, the insomnia never went away with Parnate? Even at a lower dose? How long were you on it? Did you get off Parnate because of the insomnia?

I know many experience insomnia on Zoloft and Prozac. I was not one of them. So maybe I won't experience it as bad as others have on Parnate. I don't know..I just want to feel normal again. Right now it feels like I have a sinus infection in my brain.

 

Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate? morganpmiller

Posted by softheprairie on June 24, 2009, at 6:19:28

In reply to Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?, posted by morganpmiller on June 23, 2009, at 22:16:27

I wish there was some wonder MAO I that was a sort of cross between Parnate and Nardil.
>
>

Marplan is sort of a cross between Parnate and Nardil, some say. All three of these MAOIs have insomnia as a very common side effect, though. I remember an article I've linked to in the past on these boards, but that I don't have right with me now. One of the authors is Harvard psychiatrist Jonathan Coles. Anyways, in their article it recommends adding both a sleep aid to the MAOI for the insomnia and a low dose of a stimulant for the afternoon sleepiness that often comes with the MAOIs. It specifically says that altering the time of day that the doses of the MAOI are administered does not usually resolve the insomnia.

I face in part the same dilemma you do -- having both very low energy and anxiety (in addition to depression). It seems all that I know to be helpful to anxiety make one more tired. Nardil and Parnate, at least by reputation, each help one and hurt another aspect. (Nardil helps anxiety, worsens energy, while Parnate worsens anxiety, helps energy, it seems, although I have seen multiple people say Parnate made them more tired.)
This is just from my reading a lot; the only MAOI I have been on is Emsam. I'm adequately satisfied with my desipramine and adjuncts coctail to stay put for now, but I do keep these in mind for possible future trials if things get worse for me.

 

Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?

Posted by morganpmiller on June 24, 2009, at 8:51:23

In reply to Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate? morganpmiller, posted by softheprairie on June 24, 2009, at 6:19:28

Thanks for the info..Yeah figured as much. I'm just frustrated because I'm trying to find a way to take one antidepressant and one mood stabilizer and not have to be on anything else to counter balance side effects. I was on zoloft by itself for years; slept great, felt great, no side effects other than maybe being more dehydrated than normal at times. Maybe Nardil or Parnate will be my Zoloft given some time and the right dose. Maybe lithium or depakote will offset any noticeable insomnia from Nardil or Parnate. Or maybe I should just give Zoloft a six month go and see how I feel. Ugh...I used to not like that I had to take medication to feel normal. I didn't realize how good I had it.
>
>
> Marplan is sort of a cross between Parnate and Nardil, some say. All three of these MAOIs have insomnia as a very common side effect, though. I remember an article I've linked to in the past on these boards, but that I don't have right with me now. One of the authors is Harvard psychiatrist Jonathan Coles. Anyways, in their article it recommends adding both a sleep aid to the MAOI for the insomnia and a low dose of a stimulant for the afternoon sleepiness that often comes with the MAOIs. It specifically says that altering the time of day that the doses of the MAOI are administered does not usually resolve the insomnia.
>
> I face in part the same dilemma you do -- having both very low energy and anxiety (in addition to depression). It seems all that I know to be helpful to anxiety make one more tired. Nardil and Parnate, at least by reputation, each help one and hurt another aspect. (Nardil helps anxiety, worsens energy, while Parnate worsens anxiety, helps energy, it seems, although I have seen multiple people say Parnate made them more tired.)
> This is just from my reading a lot; the only MAOI I have been on is Emsam. I'm adequately satisfied with my desipramine and adjuncts coctail to stay put for now, but I do keep these in mind for possible future trials if things get worse for me.

 

Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?

Posted by AdamCanada2 on June 24, 2009, at 11:33:07

In reply to Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?, posted by morganpmiller on June 23, 2009, at 22:16:27

I am down to 22.5mg Nardil as on 15mg i began to feel pretty depressed in the evening so i took an extra half a tablet.

Energy on Nardil has been very subtle if even there more so than other anti-deps i hae tried. maybe i need to wait for this lower dose to really kick in because 40ish mg i did not feel added energy the way Parnate did.

I heard about how generic Nardil is no longer the miracle med that it used to. Maybe I need to try brand name.

Parnate had such a profound astonishing difference (and well worth a try!) so it seems strange to me that another maoi would be so mild.

I did though have it augmented with ritalin (doctor approved) and after a week or so that augmentation gave a huge boost to Parnate which was already helping moderately. The effect of Parnate was quite inconsistent though. One week I felt better than I had in years and other times it was just moderate improvement of my strong treatment resistant depression + social anxiety.

 

Why I personally stopped Parnate.

Posted by AdamCanada2 on June 24, 2009, at 11:39:18

In reply to Re: More likely to cause insomnia, Nardil or Parnate?, posted by morganpmiller on June 23, 2009, at 22:42:40

if you are less suseptible to insomnia from other meds than that could be a huge reason to try parnate over nardil.

for me i have already struggled with insomnia most my life so for me it was horrendous.

i did quit parnate the first time due to extreme insomnia but the second time i quit parnate was for a reason no one here can explain...

when i tried a higher dose parnate... 30mg (im sensitive to meds) it no longer gave me insomnia. the bed did a 180 degree turn. energy lost, mood dropped, motivation dropped, and i had over sleeping! imagine that. it was no longer helpful enough for me when i triggered a dose that was bad for me. this phenomenon has not been experienced by others from what i have read thus far.


> Yeah this is a tough call form me. I don't want insomnia but for some reason I want to try Parnate over Nardil.
>
> So Adam, the insomnia never went away with Parnate? Even at a lower dose? How long were you on it? Did you get off Parnate because of the insomnia?
>
> I know many experience insomnia on Zoloft and Prozac. I was not one of them. So maybe I won't experience it as bad as others have on Parnate. I don't know..I just want to feel normal again. Right now it feels like I have a sinus infection in my brain.

 

Re: Why I personally stopped Parnate.

Posted by morganpmiller on June 24, 2009, at 11:44:01

In reply to Why I personally stopped Parnate., posted by AdamCanada2 on June 24, 2009, at 11:39:18

Thanks for sharing your experiences..Yeah I refuse to take anything unless it is brand name. I would seriously consider switching to brand name Nardil if you can afford the price difference.

 

Re: Why I personally stopped Parnate.

Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on June 24, 2009, at 14:57:29

In reply to Re: Why I personally stopped Parnate., posted by morganpmiller on June 24, 2009, at 11:44:01

Hi MPM:
I've been reading your thread with great interest. This forum is excellent!! I have Treatment Resistant depression/anxiety and have been on so many meds I don't like to think about it. My pdoc has been urging me to try Parnate for several years and I finally decided to give it a try. I was on a very high dose of Wellbutrin (45% improvement) for years. I've had insomnia for most of my life and Wellbutrin didn't make it worse or better.
My pdoc didn't want me to get insomnia from the parnate, so I did a two month titration down on the Wellbutrin plus he added amytriptyline (50mg) at that point, for it's AD benefits as the wellbutrin left my system and to get me sleeping. It worked, because I am sleeping. I don't have any insomnia, so I love that! But I'm really tired on the Parnate so started Provigil today.

I do think that starting the amytriptyline EARLY, avoided the insomnia piece of Parnate. Because of the fatigue I may have to give up the amytriptyline at some point, but I hope not.

I like the Parnate and want to make it work!

Good luck in finding the right med for you!

Gayle

 

Should Read 'Why I like Parnate!!' NM (nm) ColoradoSnowflake

Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on June 24, 2009, at 15:01:18

In reply to Re: Why I personally stopped Parnate., posted by ColoradoSnowflake on June 24, 2009, at 14:57:29

 

Re: Why I personally stopped Parnate.

Posted by morganpmiller on June 24, 2009, at 17:10:33

In reply to Re: Why I personally stopped Parnate., posted by ColoradoSnowflake on June 24, 2009, at 14:57:29

Hey Gayle,

How long have you been on Parnate? You're the second person here that has issues with tiredness on Parnate. I've mostly heard about Parnate being very activating and causing extreme insomnia, especially in the beginning. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

Re: Why I Like Parnate.

Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on June 25, 2009, at 9:52:25

In reply to Re: Why I personally stopped Parnate., posted by morganpmiller on June 24, 2009, at 17:10:33

Hi MPM:
Sorry, I messed up my post by not changing the title. I'm new to forums and am still learning! I started Parnate May 4th, so I've been on it almost two months. I can't take any of the MANY S__R's, or lamictal or lithium (I'm not bipolar)etc.etc. I have tried in the past, always going back to Wellbutrin which I could always take with no side effects at all but only partial improvement. My Pdoc has wanted me to try Parnate or do ECT for a long time but I have been afraid
of both of them. After a lot of reading I found that lots of people had really good results with Parnate and only a few with ECT. And if Parnate didn't work you could get off of it with no permanent damage.
Fatigue has always been a major part of my treatment resistent depression. I also saw something a Pdoc wrote which said "Parnate will ALWAYS work" if you work with it. That stuck in my mind.
My Pdoc always likes to combine Parnate with certain tricyclics. He thinks it works better that way even though the literature says they are not to be used together. He named off a list of 2 or three tricyclics to choose from and I chose amytriptyline because I thought the Parnate would jazz me up and give me insomnia. Wrong. I;ve slept well haven't had insomnia, but I am tired. He doesn't want me to change the amytriptyline for awhile..maybe later. So he put me on Provigil which I started yesterday.
In spite of being so tired I DO feel better on the Parnate, sort of under the fatigue is more of a sense of well being, brightness or clarity or something like that.
I'm committed, at this point, to work with the Parnate and augmentation, for months if necessary. There isn't anything out there right now that sounds better for me.
Sorry to ramble. Hope this answers your question! Gayle

 

Re: Why I Like Parnate.

Posted by morganpmiller on June 25, 2009, at 23:06:44

In reply to Re: Why I Like Parnate., posted by ColoradoSnowflake on June 25, 2009, at 9:52:25

>You didn't ramble at all. Thanks so much for sharing!

Hi MPM:
> Sorry, I messed up my post by not changing the title. I'm new to forums and am still learning! I started Parnate May 4th, so I've been on it almost two months. I can't take any of the MANY S__R's, or lamictal or lithium (I'm not bipolar)etc.etc. I have tried in the past, always going back to Wellbutrin which I could always take with no side effects at all but only partial improvement. My Pdoc has wanted me to try Parnate or do ECT for a long time but I have been afraid
> of both of them. After a lot of reading I found that lots of people had really good results with Parnate and only a few with ECT. And if Parnate didn't work you could get off of it with no permanent damage.
> Fatigue has always been a major part of my treatment resistent depression. I also saw something a Pdoc wrote which said "Parnate will ALWAYS work" if you work with it. That stuck in my mind.
> My Pdoc always likes to combine Parnate with certain tricyclics. He thinks it works better that way even though the literature says they are not to be used together. He named off a list of 2 or three tricyclics to choose from and I chose amytriptyline because I thought the Parnate would jazz me up and give me insomnia. Wrong. I;ve slept well haven't had insomnia, but I am tired. He doesn't want me to change the amytriptyline for awhile..maybe later. So he put me on Provigil which I started yesterday.
> In spite of being so tired I DO feel better on the Parnate, sort of under the fatigue is more of a sense of well being, brightness or clarity or something like that.
> I'm committed, at this point, to work with the Parnate and augmentation, for months if necessary. There isn't anything out there right now that sounds better for me.
> Sorry to ramble. Hope this answers your question! Gayle


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