Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 887265

Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Changing insomnia meds

Posted by myco on March 27, 2009, at 12:43:01

I need another sleep med....I know we've all beaten this subject to death, myself included but I am experiencing downs the next day with the use of seroquel and temazepam...downs I didnt have prior to using these on a regular basis. Benzo's have always given me the downs next day but at this time I need an extra kick to sleep do to nasty illness. And seroquel is dampening my moods morning after for sure. Trazodone and tryptophan for sleep gave me mild seratonin syndrome Nardil...not sure gaba based sleep meds will be good as they seem to induce mild depression in me next day. Dont know what else to take...the other new AP's are not to my dr's liking plus my understanding is they are bad on mood next day also. Kind of left thinking what else is there here...nardil was so much better when I slept like crap only taking herbals for sleep.

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds

Posted by Zana on March 27, 2009, at 13:13:28

In reply to Changing insomnia meds, posted by myco on March 27, 2009, at 12:43:01

I have been using remeron for sleep and it really knocks me out. Its been much better than any benzo and I think I've tried them all. My only hesitation in recommending it is that since my pdoc added seroquel for more anti depression effect I have been waking after 6 hrs of sleep and waking in a panic sometimes. I think it is the seroquel but my docs (2-I went for a consult) both think that the remeron is causing the panic and increased anxiety. They want me to decrease the remeron and increase the seroquel for sleep. So I quess what I'm saying is that I think the remeron is worth a try. It was a wonderful sleeper in the beginning.
Hope this is helpful
Zana

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds

Posted by Phillipa on March 27, 2009, at 13:57:38

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds, posted by Zana on March 27, 2009, at 13:13:28

Myco wow not a lot of choices with the MAOI. Could it just be that being sick is making you tireder as your body needs sleep to heal? So many lower the doses of what your're currently on? Love Phillipa

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds

Posted by Zana on March 27, 2009, at 14:05:52

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds, posted by Phillipa on March 27, 2009, at 13:57:38

OOPS! I don't think you can take Remeron if you are on a MAOI.
Sorry about that.
Zana

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds Phillipa

Posted by myco on March 27, 2009, at 14:09:19

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds, posted by Phillipa on March 27, 2009, at 13:57:38

Ive added the restoril to the seroquel because I need something with powerful knockout punch or else I will be coughing all night long with my pneumonia. But both those meds suffer from making me depressed the next day...but yes I agree that being sick is having an effect on mood for sure. But I want to ditch all my sleep meds and get something totally new...dont know what to take though...dont want seroquel or traz, not allowed more benzos, not allowed different AP's like zyprexa, dr didnt like idea of lyrica but hasnt made up mind...but its a gaba med so it might depress me next day i dunno. Ya choice is limited on maois


> Myco wow not a lot of choices with the MAOI. Could it just be that being sick is making you tireder as your body needs sleep to heal? So many lower the doses of what your're currently on? Love Phillipa

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds Zana

Posted by myco on March 27, 2009, at 14:12:14

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds, posted by Zana on March 27, 2009, at 14:05:52

Its ok...i believe under proper guidance of pdoc this is done successfully but this idea would scare my gp...doesnt take much to put him off. I debated him one evening for so long I just hey why just a f*ck*ng hammer doc, just knock me out lol

OOPS! I don't think you can take Remeron if you are on a MAOI.
> Sorry about that.
> Zana

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds myco

Posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 27, 2009, at 16:55:13

In reply to Changing insomnia meds, posted by myco on March 27, 2009, at 12:43:01

hi myco,

Have you tried heavy exercise? I know it is hard to do it consistently, but when I walk 4 miles or so on the treadmill with elevation set, I sleep so much better at night. And the price is right.

But light exercise doesn't really do it for me - I really have to exhaust myself.


Regards
T.E.D.

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds

Posted by Zana on March 27, 2009, at 18:12:24

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds myco, posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 27, 2009, at 16:55:13

What a good idea TED. When I went for an ECT consult the doc I saw said that the 3 things they knew contributed to relapse where exercise, light and situational stress. I've been on my treadmill every day since. It hasn't cured my depression and I still take sleep meds but I think it helps.
Zana

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds Zana

Posted by raisinb on March 27, 2009, at 19:06:37

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds, posted by Zana on March 27, 2009, at 18:12:24

Just a caution, exercise can backfire in some people--it always does for me. The days I exercise hard are the days I get all jacked up and can't sleep at all (and it doesn't matter what time of day I do it, either).

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds

Posted by bleauberry on March 27, 2009, at 20:10:12

In reply to Changing insomnia meds, posted by myco on March 27, 2009, at 12:43:01

While none of the sleep meds were perfect for me, I had by far the best results with either Zyprexa (8 years at 5mg) or Lunesta (1/2 dose as needed) or Remeron (3.75mg-7.5mg).

With the exception of those meds, everything else...Seroquel, Trazodone, benzos...left me significantly more depressed the next day. And very lethargic.

That brings me to Remeron. Excellent sleep med at the right dose. I think if people would take a 15mg tab and cut it into quarters, try one quarter, and then try two quarters, they would find that 3.75mg or 7.5mg is a good sleep. It comes with a slight morning grogginess hangover thing that disappears in a couple weeks, but no depression. For me anyway. And I am easily depressed by meds. Higher doses to me were more activating and not as good for sleep. I swear, little chunks of Remeron are powerful good sleep meds.

Though I've never tried Amitriptyline myself, I know a couple people that have used it nightly for years in doses of 10mg-25mg.

I suspect if you have a damaged sympathetic system (fight or flight), you would do best with Amitriptyline.

Contrary to what your docs said, I have to put a good word in for Zyprexa. It is a good med to try and should not be haphazardly lumped into a category with other APs.

No matter what you take, be sure it is brand and not generic. If you are on generic, switch to brand before switching meds. I'm not kidding.

At the right doses...Remeron, Amitriptyline, Lunesta, Zyprexa...there you have four excellent alternatives to put on your menu. No shortage of options. With the exception of Amitriptyline, be sure they are not generic.

As a side note, another excellent sleep/anxiety med was Hydrocortisone tablets at just 1.25mg (1/4 of the smallest pill). If you have ever googled adrenal fatigue and it looked like something that fit you, then HC would do wonders. Amitriptyline is sort of in that same circuitry.

 

Re: Myco Is Sick And Cant Excercise

Posted by Phillipa on March 27, 2009, at 21:40:37

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds, posted by bleauberry on March 27, 2009, at 20:10:12

Are you guys forgetting that Myco is very ill right now he can't excercise he needs his sleep. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds )myco

Posted by Neal on March 28, 2009, at 1:15:26

In reply to Changing insomnia meds, posted by myco on March 27, 2009, at 12:43:01

were you kidding about the pneumonia? If you have something like that, stay in bed and rest and sleep. I would think Xanax is the gold standard. Neurontin is used a lot too.

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds bleauberry

Posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 2:42:29

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds, posted by bleauberry on March 27, 2009, at 20:10:12

Thanks for the well detailed response, you always put effort into them.

Unfortunately for me gp is phobic about many things...anything benzo or pseudo-benzo like lunesta is out of the question for him. Zyprexa he refused to recognize as useful...I will have to delve into the literature to show support as a sleep aid for that one...i'm willing to try anything as long as it agrees with nardil.

Remeron is something he wouldnt buy into either...he doesnt like augmenting anything really...his philosophy is "we dont want to add more drugs" and I should just meditate to sleep LOL ya right, meditate for sleep on moderately high dose nardil hmmm lol ok. I think I can budge him on the zyprexa though...I will concentrate there I think. Remeron is ssri is it? ive never used it but if it's tca or ssri he doesnt like it with maois.

Although I have used amitriptyline with success for sleep (worthless to me as an AD though) in the past through a pdoc....cant wait to get a new pdoc...soon. Ya my fight or flight is seriously messed up...I panic easily but usually nardil has this under control.

Tension and anxiety dominate my life when not on a proper med. I also think you may be right about the fibromalagia...at some point I may get it in the future as muscle tension easily develops into debilitating pain. I think it was you who mentioned that to me once...that I sound a candidate for that.

I have heard of hydrocortisone works well...will have to look more into it. I have this ocd tendency I think lol i read and read and read whenever I start something new....i never just start.


------------------------------


> While none of the sleep meds were perfect for me, I had by far the best results with either Zyprexa (8 years at 5mg) or Lunesta (1/2 dose as needed) or Remeron (3.75mg-7.5mg).
>
> With the exception of those meds, everything else...Seroquel, Trazodone, benzos...left me significantly more depressed the next day. And very lethargic.
>
> That brings me to Remeron. Excellent sleep med at the right dose. I think if people would take a 15mg tab and cut it into quarters, try one quarter, and then try two quarters, they would find that 3.75mg or 7.5mg is a good sleep. It comes with a slight morning grogginess hangover thing that disappears in a couple weeks, but no depression. For me anyway. And I am easily depressed by meds. Higher doses to me were more activating and not as good for sleep. I swear, little chunks of Remeron are powerful good sleep meds.
>
> Though I've never tried Amitriptyline myself, I know a couple people that have used it nightly for years in doses of 10mg-25mg.
>
> I suspect if you have a damaged sympathetic system (fight or flight), you would do best with Amitriptyline.
>
> Contrary to what your docs said, I have to put a good word in for Zyprexa. It is a good med to try and should not be haphazardly lumped into a category with other APs.
>
> No matter what you take, be sure it is brand and not generic. If you are on generic, switch to brand before switching meds. I'm not kidding.
>
> At the right doses...Remeron, Amitriptyline, Lunesta, Zyprexa...there you have four excellent alternatives to put on your menu. No shortage of options. With the exception of Amitriptyline, be sure they are not generic.
>
> As a side note, another excellent sleep/anxiety med was Hydrocortisone tablets at just 1.25mg (1/4 of the smallest pill). If you have ever googled adrenal fatigue and it looked like something that fit you, then HC would do wonders. Amitriptyline is sort of in that same circuitry.

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds )myco Neal

Posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 2:51:21

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds )myco, posted by Neal on March 28, 2009, at 1:15:26

nope not kidding...my body had become so run down, my mental state also, from lack of sleep...improper rx sleep aids from gp who doesnt believe in them. Got the flu then a series of panic issues then when I thought it passed I got slammed with pneumonia. Went to idiot gp...he said nah youre panicking and having anxiety headaches go home and rest.....sent me home to rest with pneumonia LOL...theres a good one for you. Took a different dr under 2 mins to diagnose me and put me on antibiotic and inhaler and send me for xrays...my gp just tosses me around like "the boy who cried wolf"...i'm anxiety patient...he has me labelled as an overworrier who has nothing wrong physically so he dismisses my complaints alot lol. I will breath a sigh of relief when a get through that pdoc waiting list. That gp is so fired immediately after.

Was searching for a better sleep med as mine depress me next day....thats why i started this thread.

I do exercise but its not an option when you cant breath properly and are so weak stair are a challenge. But im getting better...ive been in worse states in my life before.


-----------------

> were you kidding about the pneumonia? If you have something like that, stay in bed and rest and sleep. I would think Xanax is the gold standard. Neurontin is used a lot too.

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds )myco

Posted by Neal on March 28, 2009, at 22:31:12

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds )myco Neal, posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 2:51:21

I didn't see any mention of doxepin, maybe not usable with MAOIs. At low dosage it's pretty good for slllleeeeeeeeppppppppppppppzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . .

Huh? . . Oh yeh, and using Remeron for sleep is OK, but you have to remember that it's an AD and if you discontinue taking after using it for many days/weeks, it can cause a minor crash, as it did with me a couple of times.

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds )myco

Posted by desolationrower on March 28, 2009, at 23:02:36

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds )myco, posted by Neal on March 28, 2009, at 22:31:12

well look, most of these drugs are just H1 drugs. if you take one of those, get some cyproheptadine. shorter halflife so you dno't have effects next day, and 5ht2 antagonism means good sleep quality. also dirt cheap. and its OTC in some provinces, so you might not even have to order it, just go to the local store. have you tried trazadone without taking 5htp at the same time? it works pretty well for me.

-d/r

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds )myco Neal

Posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 23:10:22

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds )myco, posted by Neal on March 28, 2009, at 22:31:12

Doxepin was a curiousity of mine awhile ago...it has a very good profile for anxiety patients and a good sleep response but I rarely run across anyone who has experience with it. Plus dr can't handle the idea of tca + maoi...it makes him shiver in his knickers (what the hell was that...it just came out lol). I'm about to hit him again with another debate over sleep aids...zyprexa will be involved again in the discussion and i'm thinking tca like doxepin (ideally) or amitrip (as ive used for sleep in past). Hope it goes well....myco is losing patience and has to hold back hand from wanting to strangle lil medical educated man *grunt grunt*


> I didn't see any mention of doxepin, maybe not usable with MAOIs. At low dosage it's pretty good for slllleeeeeeeeppppppppppppppzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . .
>
> Huh? . . Oh yeh, and using Remeron for sleep is OK, but you have to remember that it's an AD and if you discontinue taking after using it for many days/weeks, it can cause a minor crash, as it did with me a couple of times.

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds )myco desolationrower

Posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 23:19:09

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds )myco, posted by desolationrower on March 28, 2009, at 23:02:36

I did traz with great success on effexor but gives me mild seratonin syndrome on nardil...although mabye change brands who knows.

Cyproheptadine...hmm for some reason I think we have some of this laying around here. There is another I want, OTC, to try...Promethazine...small company in quebec produces it.

thanks for your ongoing help man, hope I dont wear you down with questions lol

myco

-----------------


> well look, most of these drugs are just H1 drugs. if you take one of those, get some cyproheptadine. shorter halflife so you dno't have effects next day, and 5ht2 antagonism means good sleep quality. also dirt cheap. and its OTC in some provinces, so you might not even have to order it, just go to the local store. have you tried trazadone without taking 5htp at the same time? it works pretty well for me.
>
> -d/r

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds

Posted by bleauberry on March 29, 2009, at 9:31:21

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds bleauberry, posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 2:42:29

You have one thing keeping you ill worse than the illness is. That is, your doctor.

Please do not have delusions of ever getting well while under the care of this particular clinician. He is keeping you sick. He is refusing proven treatments. He is refusing FDA approved treatments. He is deciding on the terms of his own bias, not your wellbeing, what you can and cannot do.

Do not expect to get well while under this person's guidance. It is your decision and choice who's hands you put your life into. I am not trying to be negative or critical so please don't take it that way. I am instead being purely realistic. It is hard enough as it is to make progress with all of the medical profession's options available to us. But when you start cherrypicking that list of options down to a small list, forget it, your chances of life enhancement and health are a lot closer to zero than any other number.

Do some research in your area. Get another doctor.

At the very least, "phrase it" this way...get a second opinion, preferably from someone who has a stronger reputation than the one you are seeing.

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds bleauberry

Posted by myco on March 29, 2009, at 14:38:35

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds, posted by bleauberry on March 29, 2009, at 9:31:21

You are totally correct here...I dont take this bad at all...it's something i'm been considering for ages. Only reason I stay with this particular gp is he is the only, literally only, dr I have been able to find in the realm of general practicioners that is found of the use of MAOI's. I am on a waiting list for a good MAOI pdoc. If I ditch this guy now what happens when I need to refill nardil? I've been through this with other gp's...they dont want to touch it...as if it's not their problem. I may have to, and believe me I hate this idea as its deceitful, get another gp on the side who isn't aware of my Nardil use.

myco
-----------


> You have one thing keeping you ill worse than the illness is. That is, your doctor.
>
> Please do not have delusions of ever getting well while under the care of this particular clinician. He is keeping you sick. He is refusing proven treatments. He is refusing FDA approved treatments. He is deciding on the terms of his own bias, not your wellbeing, what you can and cannot do.
>
> Do not expect to get well while under this person's guidance. It is your decision and choice who's hands you put your life into. I am not trying to be negative or critical so please don't take it that way. I am instead being purely realistic. It is hard enough as it is to make progress with all of the medical profession's options available to us. But when you start cherrypicking that list of options down to a small list, forget it, your chances of life enhancement and health are a lot closer to zero than any other number.
>
> Do some research in your area. Get another doctor.
>
> At the very least, "phrase it" this way...get a second opinion, preferably from someone who has a stronger reputation than the one you are seeing.
>

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds myco

Posted by Neal on March 31, 2009, at 0:56:12

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds bleauberry, posted by myco on March 29, 2009, at 14:38:35

I have no experience with MAOI's and as I suspected TCAs such as doxepin are contra-indicated with MAOIs. Something to think about if you ever go off the MAOI, though.

 

Re: Changing insomnia meds myco

Posted by bleauberry on April 1, 2009, at 17:36:01

In reply to Re: Changing insomnia meds bleauberry, posted by myco on March 29, 2009, at 14:38:35

>I may have to, and believe me I hate this idea as its deceitful, get another gp on the side who isn't aware of my Nardil use.
>
> myco
> -----------

I do not see that as deceitful. For your own life and your own health, career, marriage, devotion, everything...you gotta do what you gotta do for the good of everything involved. In this case, no one suffers from the supposed deceipt. There are no victims. No one is hurt. In fact, someone is helped. This particular case of deceipt causes goodness rather than evilness.

So yes, on the surface it appears deceitful, but when no one is hurt, there are no victims, and no harm has been done to anyone, is that really deceipt?

I do not view any doctor as a god anyway. So if they are slightly deceived for the sake of my own health, I think my true God will forgive me of that.

Just my opinion though.


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