Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 878621

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Re: Short-term med tactic needed

Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2009, at 10:49:47

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed, posted by Neal on February 7, 2009, at 10:32:26

I agree Neal and Pdoc should know what all of the meds and supplements are. Could be interractions. I don't know as not a doctor. Phillipa

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed Neal

Posted by garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 11:11:21

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed, posted by Neal on February 7, 2009, at 1:56:54

> quick thoughts-
>
> -you went off meds under Pdoc supervision?
>
> -if not, make sure a Pdoc knows what your doing.
>
> -The anxiety could be cause you went off meds. Just a possibility to think about. "Sometimes" going off can give a temporary good feeling, but is temporary.
>
> -don't drink anything with caffeine.
>
> -the alcohol not very good idea as, what happens when you stop the alcohol?

-------------------------

Thanks for helping me out here, Neal. I'm currently in between doctors. I wasn't comfortable with the last PDoc I tried. It was the initial visit and his rapport was like father/child, although I presented myself as a calm, rational, mature person. He wrote me a script for Lamictal and didn't even hint to what my diagnosis *could* be or why he was giving me this particular med or what its side effects could be. I asked questions, but the only answer were vague then "call me if you get a rash". Maybe he is the best doctor in terms of competency, for all I know, but our initial visit was only about 10 to 15 minutes. Most of his questions were about my family history; I did't get a chance to even tell him my own psych history. So with the combination of those variables, I sure as hell wasn't going to take a new line of meds without finding a new PDoc appt. first.

Prior to him, I saw new PDoc roughly 4 times. Initially, he took me from nothing to 150 mg Zoloft, then next visit 450 mg of Wellbutrin in one day. That was a big red flag. I did follow his instructions and tapered on instead. By the 4th visit, I told him I couldn't tolerate the symptoms of xxRIs any longer. (And this was the case for a few years prior but was seeking treatment again for anxiety). When I said I couldn't tolerate the side effects and risk losing my job and failing out of school. He said "what do you want me to do"? I said I didn't know that's why I was here to see him. This is where I sought new PDoc, Lamictal guy, above.

I have new appointment with old PDoc (really just PNurse visits), I think next week. I have to find the little piece of paper with the appt. lol. I do have an appointment calendar.

In response to your other post, this forum has nothing to do with my decision to quit or start taking any medication.

Alcohol would only be a last resort to prevent nervous breakdown that could possibly result from escalating panic attack with no relief.

I'm hoping the anxiety will dissipate. Actually, out of the past 2 or 3 years or so, the best i ever did was the last 1 1/2 months of this past summer. I had been med free for a couple of months prior and still not at my best, but gradually, I had no symptoms and was so level, normal, calm, motivation gradually increased, stable-physically and mentally-it was unbelievable. At this time, my life did slow down quite a bit and I didn't have to do heavy mental work (so ADD symptoms and cognitive problems would not come into play). I was cooking everything from scratch--beans, legumes, fruits, vegetables, fish, some lean meats. My weight went down at a good pace, I started looking much better. It seemed my body just came to equilibrium. I was also taking care of myself more and allowing myself time to garden, paint, working on the house, relax, etc. That only lasted about a month.

I was doing so well, then the anxiety just came back right before school started up again.

Thanks for your advice.

ps I have no sense of time so if it seems I am contradicting myself with time frames, etc., that is why

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed Neal

Posted by garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 11:22:42

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed, posted by Neal on February 7, 2009, at 10:32:26

> Also-
>
> I just get the feeling you're trying to do too many things at once. Going off of stuff - going on something else needs to be done at a deliberate pace or your body's gonna get confused and you will too. You won't know what is doing what - if you have too many variables going at the same time.
>
> I think one weakness of this board is that people start playing around with their meds perhaps too light-heartedly. Change can be good; but too much change in a short time can be harmful sometimes.
>
>---------------

Hey Neal - I wasn't playing with meds; the PDoc prior to my last one, was the one adding everything. I forgot to mention, before he put me on the Zoloft, we tried Prozac for a week-and I couldn't take it after it caused cloudy urine and irregular pupil. This is when he took me from that to 150 mg Zoloft; next visit 450 mg Wellbutrin with no taper on. I was getting worse and worse, so I had to quit them. He did not help me when I said I could not tolerate symptoms. Just asked me what I wanted to take. I had no choice but to quit because I have a household to support, kid in college, and school. My future depends on completing graduate program. I don't have any choice other than being functional.

Again, to be clear, this forum has nothing to do with any of those decisions with the meds...and I only found this forum in January, I think.

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed garnet71

Posted by Neal on February 7, 2009, at 12:31:41

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed Neal, posted by garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 11:11:21

"I wasn't comfortable with the last PDoc I tried"

garnet 71,

jeez, yeh, we've all been there, haven't we. I think Pdocs can burn out sometimes and they just see you as a body and "so what do you want me to do" type responses. He must have a lot of patients, if he feels he can stonewall you like that; i.e., doesn't care if he loses you. And the Pdocs that have the self-amused sardonic attitudes, that drives me up the wall. I sometime wonder if the present economic difficulties, in which even Pdocs feel the pain, might humanize the ones who drive the flashy BMW's and live in beautiful homes. They've got it pretty good with the present system in which we can't get meds without them. (I better stop, I can feel the potential flames from Pdocs at this point, er sorry, just venting)

BTW, I've found (for me) younger Pdocs that have practices in culturally liberal areas of large cities to be the best bets. Or better, connected to a large city University or College, or recently in practices out of Universities etc. Not necessarily going to work specifically, just maybe better odds that the person hasn't turned into an armadillo through seeing hundreds of patients for 20 years.

Plus every Pdoc has had the "What about Bob" (the movie) type patients that causes them trouble if they've been in practice for a long time. So they can get to be armadillos from that too.

Finding a good Pdoc is a hard go sometimes. Sorry if you felt I put you in a category of being too influenced by the board. I was talking in the abstract, to the whole board and didn't mean to reach that conclusion specifically about you. (but it probably sounded that way, so sorry)

Obviously, from what I gather from your last post - you're very competent and aware person. We know so little about the persons we post to; just a few sentences typed on a web page; so hard when people ask for advice; to give a customized answer. Somebody once said it's like walking into a room full of people you don't know and the lights are off :)

-Neal
__________________________________________

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed Neal

Posted by garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 13:15:05

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed garnet71, posted by Neal on February 7, 2009, at 12:31:41

Not at all the case with overloaded PDocs!! As for the PDoc I went to for the 4 times - never came across another patient in his office with the exception of one time. Never waited longer than 5 minutes past appt. time to go back in the office either.

I know what you mean about trying young doctors. I wish I had the choice. My insurance only has a list of about 8. I've tried 4 of them; 2 are far away; 1 said I wasn't allowed to be seen unless my pdoc treatment was complemented w/the therapist of their choice but I cannot afford copayments with therapists or the time right now. I can't recall at this time why I crossed out the other one.

Armadillos - lol! You had me laughing. I've never seen that movie, What About Bob.

My insurance has great medical doctors on the list, moreso for non-mental health specialists; for PDocs, and I've called and complained to ins. co, do not like to deal with my insurance-they have to jump through hoops to get approved by my carrier to treat. I really need to call the VA-I will do that Monday. My insurance was just dropped, though, since I didn't pay them for 2 months; I called and they said they would consider reinstating me, but haven't gotten back to me yet. They are pretty leniant in so many ways, and with payments, but why making PDocs jump through hoops, I don't know. So I might not even have insurance. I have to avoid the ER.

IMO-health practices should be integrated; they should consist of a pharmapsych, a nutritionist, endo, neuro, primary care, alternative, etc. So you might think this is what a hospital is, but I'm thinking differently. From an entrepreunerial spirit, I have some ideas about health care for the future. But you know money and politics ruins everything. As far as interdisplinary methods for individual MDs, they would be great, but maybe there is just too much information for doctors to learn. I thought seeing a DO instead of MD would be different; not much though.

The best doctor I ever had was a younger military doctor; he's about 40. He wasn't able to be my permanent doctor, but in trying to help me, I came to realize he was my ideal doctor in totality. In telling him about my psychiatrist experiences, he actually called his Dad, who is a psychiatrist, to see if he would help me (ended up not wanting to deal with my insurance too.) One time we were taking a walk, just talking about my issues, and he stopped and picked up a worm off a sunny sidewalk to save its life. He moved it from the sidewalk to the grass in the shade. He told me he didn't want it to die. I was so incredibly moved by this person, under his collective care, but was actually overcome by the little worm gesture. When I told my therapist about this doctor, she said that probably transference was going on under his care. Thankfully, he is teaching faculty at a medical center, outside his military job. He also is also on those top doctor lists...which I would have guessed, had I not known this person, would have somehow been politically motivated. So there is still be hope! We need more medical teachers like him.

"Somebody once said it's like walking into a room full of people you don't know and the lights are off :) -Neal"

Nice analogy above.

Thanks so much for talking with me. I feel like my life is falling apart. I really appreciate it Neal. I really needed someone to talk to.

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed garnet71

Posted by garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 14:05:37

In reply to Short-term med tactic needed, posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 21:18:07

"The anxiety could be cause you went off meds. Just a possibility to think about. "Sometimes" going off can give a temporary good feeling, but is temporary."
- Neal

About going off meds and temporary good feeling - I felt better before going on meds too, but then anxiety finds its way back in my life again eventually. This happens repeatedly. So they keep giving me xxRIs, and they make me depressed and ruin my well-being; they help with the anxiety, but worsen my total state to the point of intolerance. So-I quit taking them eventually, anxiety creeps back in, then PDocs put me back on them. I get miserable, quit taking them. It's a circle of insanity. I don't feel depressed unless I take antidepressants.

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed

Posted by Garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 14:19:57

In reply to Short-term med tactic needed, posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 21:18:07

Maybe NewQuestions was right that I have just not yet found the right medication. Maybe that and other biological things going on.

Because I responded well to Wellbutrin/Effexor combo some 10 years ago when I had PTSD and severe depression, it seems PDocs use that as the reference point of my treatment.

I do wonder if I have a dopamine problem, sometimes, since Grandmother had schitzophrenia, and that the anxiety is a result of my screwed up endoctrine system and long-term sress and environmental/situational issues.

Psycotherapy would probably be beneficial right now, I suppose I should just not think about this anymore and just leave my fate in the hands of doctors.

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed garnet71

Posted by bleauberry on February 7, 2009, at 15:48:17

In reply to Short-term med tactic needed, posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 21:18:07

>
> - severe anxiety
> - inability to focus on mental activities
> - inability to concentrate
> - lack of motivation
> - can't read much from focus issues
> - intense cravings of carbs and sugar
> - feeling hung over w/o drinking alchohol
> - limited abstract thinking
> - short-term memory loss
> - tired no matter how much sleep I get
> - overwhelmed from everything to catch up on as a result of the above
> - Eye problem: right eye vision distorted; everything slants downward/computer screen appears crooked; had undiagnosed pain in this eye several years ago-pain is off/on over years; have some tears in my retina, but there is no pain with retinal detachment
> - No problems with focusing or completing non mental chores such as dishes and housework
>

As you may know, I've studied heavily on things that cause anxiety/depression and things that mimic them. As I read the above list, it paints a clear picture of something you may not have considered. Infection.

The one that really caught my attention like a sledge hammer was "feeling hungover without drinking alcohol". All the others tie into that one. Whether Candida, Lyme, other bacteria, protozoans, or worms, what they all do is excrete toxins and waste into your bloodstream that make you feel...hungover. Kind of like mildly poisoned. The toxins have affinity for the opioid receptors. Kind of like contaminated opioids. And they can contaminate serotonin and dopamine. Possibly explaining why you felt better when the meds that were keeping those levels high were removed.

Anxiety is also a top symptom. Really tired, foggy, hungover, just not with it, and yet at the same time there is unprovoked inner anxiousness.

It is no wonder you have these symptoms that fall into the category of "brain fog".

Then I wondered, ok, if it is an infection, what kind causes intense sugar cravings? The top contender there is Candida. It is a catch 22 that the things that are feeding the monsters the most are the ones you crave the most.

Most infectious tests are unreliable. Long detailed topic. Modern medicine is weak in that area. The fastest most accurate diagnostic tools are meds...antibiotic Tetracycline; antifungal Nystatin. If your symptoms get a lot worse shortly after starting one of those, it is diagnostic. You are killing a lot of something in that category.

Very long detailed subject. If you want to know more, let me know. I just wanted to say that while your symptoms may look bizarre and mysterious to many people including most doctors and probably all psychiatrists, they stood out plain as day to me.

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed bleauberry

Posted by garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 16:30:23

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed garnet71, posted by bleauberry on February 7, 2009, at 15:48:17

Beauberry!! I am so thankful you wrote to me. I just came back to the computer to google the recipe for Lamb Tangine I came across a week ago (my son is begging me to cook now), and was (positively) distracted by your reply. I had written to you on a couple of occasions, but was thinking maybe you did not see my posts or that you were just not in a mood to respond at the time. Your posts are very informative!!

I'm seeing a new endo next week and will ask for tests; not sure which tests she will think are appropriate, but I'm working on a list of symptoms - both mental and phsyical - and time frames for her, along with questions.

I had mentioned in other posts about the possibility of Lyme; I found a tick in me once, and on many occasions, had done military exercises in the woods in a high-Lyme area in such a way that you would be in contact with the ground and brush regularly and also changing in and out of chemical warfare suits/uniforms, so I wouln't be surprised if there were more ticks I never found or noticed due to the circumstances of military exercises.

yes, the feeling hungover w/o drinking has been going on for quite some time, ehanced by xxRI use. Last summer, PDoc put me back on Effexor; symptoms were the worst ever - to the point where my joints were swollen and it was very painful, although intermittent, and I ended up accomplishing barely anything at all during the entire summer. Could not work or do much. Motivation at all time low. Went to rheumatologist who diagnosed me with fibromyalgia becuase he couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. When I went for the exam, no joints were swollen..my luck..lol. But my symptoms were just like rheumatoid arthritis, according to the websites. But because my Xrays came back ok and arthritis tests negative, along with not seeing my swollen joints, Dr. couldnt make a conclusion, although he was one of the better ones I had seen and took time to think about my situation. When I quit the Effexor, the joint swelling and pain went away and never came back.

What really distracted me was when you mentioned Candida. I recently posted about a lucid dream I had where i envisioned a 2-word phrase with the word Candida. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090104/msgs/877122.html
Of course I couldn't help but mention this. This dream was probably 5 years ago, but not sure. Doesn't yogurt destroy Candida? Could it be that simple?

The brain fog got much worse with recent retry of Wellbutrin. I thought maybe because it was the generic version that I had not tried previously. The Zoloft made the brain fog worse, but when I added Wellbutrin, it was 5 times worse.

My health food store is giving a live blood analysis on Feb. 11th, and if i can get an appt., I was thinking of going. I just don't trust it, wondering if its a scam and the person doing the test is just going to show me the normal bacterias or whatever everyone has in their systems then try to sell me products to mitigage the 'results'. I guess for $35, it would be worth the risk. It's done by a CNHP specialist.

I also got a referral for a Lyme specialist from the Lyme foundation, but it's an hour and a half away - to see an internist. It's so hard when you don't have money, like many of us here who are contending with chronic mental health issues. If i had the money, I would be going to all sorts of doctors and specialists. I think I'm going to wait on the Lyme guy, just put that possibility in the back of my mind for now.

I don't know anything about opoid receptors, but yes, I would like more information. Although I'm not sure if I could handle processing pages and pages of stuff right now.

But yeah, this is it in a nutshell:
"Anxiety is also a top symptom. Really tired, foggy, hungover, just not with it, and yet at the same time there is unprovoked inner anxiousness."

Well my son is getting very hungry. Thanks so much for taking the time out to look at my situation!!!


 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed

Posted by garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 18:09:50

In reply to Short-term med tactic needed, posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 21:18:07

For lamb tangine, you are supposed to marinate the lamb in the spices the night before!! See, if I were my normal self, i would have remembered this and taken care of it last night. I am still making it though, it'll be ok, just not as good.

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed

Posted by Neal on February 7, 2009, at 20:38:15

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed, posted by garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 18:09:50

I'll tell a story on myself. Once upon a time, I decided to quit Ativan cold turkey. Two days later, I thought "gee, that was easy". Next day I'm anxious and depressed out of my mind. I call the Pdoc. "what do I do, I'm goin out of my mind".

He finds out about my quiting the benzo; says 4 words. "Go back on it". I realize I'm the biggest dummy in the world in a flash. I had forgotten about the little experiment I had started a few days earlier.

On the plus side, Pdocs are like knights in shining armor for this reason: They help some of the most stigmatized people in society, the mentally ill. Most of society would like to sweep the whole thing under the rug. Just 100 years ago, they were still putting people in institutions and throwing away the key.

The other day I happened to hear one of those shock jock shows on AM radio. The jocks were saying "women who have mental problems should never have children" I couldn't believe my ears. This was going out to all of LA on the radio. For a minute I thought of going down there with a tommy gun and sweeping out the place.
____________________

And one last thing about Pdocs and I'll shut-up. I think they train them to have a stand-off attitude to their patients because some Pdocs will unfortunately have the experience of a patient suicide. Could you imagine that experience if they were to be emotionally involved with the person.

There's just one thing that tics me off; their hourly rates. People with good insurance will at this point nod their heads, but think "so what". But if you have to pay out of pocket, and are not rich, it's a disaster. Especially in a big city, where the rates are higher.


_____

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed garnet71

Posted by Neal on February 7, 2009, at 21:07:59

In reply to Short-term med tactic needed, posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 21:18:07

Garnet,

If anxiety is your main problem; and I see you like to use non-med solutions too at times; you don't mention exercise, which is a great stress reliever, if you're not already doin' it

On the med side the only other thing that helped me with anxiety, besides AD's and benzos mmm suboxone, but talk about stigmatization by society for that one, not worth it.

________________

 

Re: oh i saw that you do exercise from prev post (nm)

Posted by Neal on February 7, 2009, at 21:29:52

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed garnet71, posted by Neal on February 7, 2009, at 21:07:59

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed

Posted by Garnet71 on February 8, 2009, at 4:48:48

In reply to Short-term med tactic needed, posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 21:18:07

Can a person become bipolar at age 38? I think there are several things going on here, simultaneously. I'm really, really scared right now.

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed Neal

Posted by garnet71 on February 8, 2009, at 9:51:33

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed, posted by Neal on February 7, 2009, at 20:38:15

"And one last thing about Pdocs and I'll shut-up."
- Neal
--------------
Please don't shut up. You were my lifeline last night. Thank you so much.

About Ativan-quitting that cold turkey is a lot different then quitting xxRIs. Luckily, it is easily reversed by taking - of all things - an Ativan. I almost had a nervous breakdown when I ran out of Ativan a few years ago, but I was accused of being a drug seeker by the ER and was not treated-so I had to go home and drink 2 bottles of wine to supress my nervous system (this prevented a nervous breakdown). Well, that's the Reader's Digest version of the story. Needless to say, when the hospital got my letter they 'erased' the bill. I wish I had sued them-I will not tolerate that anymore. Even today, it complicates my anxiety to think that doctors will watch me lose my mind while I have another 4 day continuous panic attack.

Like you, I have sympathy for PDocs; well, all doctors for that matter. The health care system really sux.

Shock jocks on the radio--don't even get me started!!! They promote the stigmitization of the mentally ill; it makes me angry. You know, I couldn't stand Brittney Spears, actually the concept of her. But when I caught glimpses of how the media treated her, I have the utmost sympathy for her now-and even have grown to respect her. I can't believe i just said that. lol. I personally think the role of shock jocks as along the lines of the lowest common denominator in our society. I always have CDs in my car for morning commutes, as there is nothing but trash on the radio; even some of the political news personalities who don't consider or offer both sides of the issues, are a huge dissapointment to me.

Even at my undergraduate school where you could find the most liberal in the country, stigmitization of the mentally ill is accepted. I was shocked by how these young kids would advocate to protect any and all groups - while making fun of the mentally ill. When are things going to get better? You know, I have come to the realization that the mentally ill are some of the neatest, most interesting, most intelligent, most compassionate human beings on the planet. The world would be a pretty boring place without 'us'.

Since you mentioned treatment costs, there seems to be some legislation going on to allow for more parity with mental health vs. 'medical' health. Unfortunately, I have not paid much attention to the news recently to know what's going on there. I do know those who need mental health services the most are often those who are least able to afford it. My military doc I mentioned above goes way out of his way to a distressed neighborhood to help those who are poor. He told me he couldn't help but notice the difference in the patients there vs. the patients in the well-off part of the city - in terms of needing mental health services. Knowing doctors like him exist gives me great hope.

Well I am feeling better despite only sleeping a couple of hours. It's my Grandaughters 2nd birthday today, and I have a party to go to. Her Mom, my son's sister, is such an amazingly beautiful, spirited, special person. Spending the day with her and her family should really brighten my day.

Thanks again for talking with me, Neal. I hope things for the both of us just keep getting brighter and brighter.


 

Re: SLS?

Posted by garnet71 on February 8, 2009, at 10:21:45

In reply to Short-term med tactic needed, posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 21:18:07

Hi Scott,

Would you be kind enough to give me some advice on my situation the next time you pop in to post to the threads right before/after mine?

I hope we are still friends. Unfortunately, the only thing I could offer in return is friendship (and cyberhugs).

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed garnet71

Posted by bleauberry on February 8, 2009, at 16:25:46

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed bleauberry, posted by garnet71 on February 7, 2009, at 16:30:23

> I'm seeing a new endo next week and will ask for tests;

With overall jaded views of today's medical profession, I am not too keen on endos. They are well-meaning, they serve an awesome role for diabetics and clearcut thyroid diseases, but are bound by their profession's rigid way of viewing things. For example, a "normal" thyroid range is extremely broad. Someone can be in the normal range, yet have all the symptoms of hypothyroidism, and respond robustly to thyroid augmentation. But with an endo, the opportunity to try that would not be likely to happen. After all, "Your tests are normal, I have spoken." In the situation that something does indeed show up in testing, it could very likely be a manisfestation of a different disease. A result of something else. Treat it and feel better, but not be cured as the other disease is allowed to progress even worse.


>
> I had mentioned in other posts about the possibility of Lyme; I found a tick in me once, and on many occasions, had done military exercises in the woods in a high-Lyme area in such a way that you would be in contact with the ground and brush regularly and also changing in and out of chemical warfare suits/uniforms, so I wouln't be surprised if there were more ticks I never found or noticed due to the circumstances of military exercises.

Clearly there is a history of tick exposure. A tick found in you once is all it takes. One dose and sick for a lifetime. Until treated. Being in a Lyme area is also significantly suggestive all by itself even without knowledge of a tick attachment.

>
> yes, the feeling hungover w/o drinking has been going on for quite some time, ehanced by xxRI use. Last summer, PDoc put me back on Effexor; symptoms were the worst ever - to the point where my joints were swollen and it was very painful, although intermittent, and I ended up accomplishing barely anything at all during the entire summer. Could not work or do much. Motivation at all time low. Went to rheumatologist who diagnosed me with fibromyalgia becuase he couldn't figure out what was wrong with me.

Yeah, I despise those names...fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, etc. It is basically a polite way of saying "We have no idea what is wrong with you, but we'll give it a name anyway." The symptoms fit a broad cluster and is given a name.

Most Lyme sufferers had these types of diagnosis before they ever saw an Lyme Literate MD, and most of them lost their symptoms with antibiotic treatment. Go figure, antibiotics can cure fibromyalgia and, CFS, and MS? Makes me wonder why only maybe a few hundred MDs recognize this when it should be thousands.

My LLMD even admits that when those symptoms are present but no alternative cause can be found by examination and lab tests, then a trial of antibiotics is not only diagnostic, but most often curative. He told me one patient who appeared like Lyme, but the person's symptoms had begun weeks after getting scratched on a barnacle on a pier. An ongoing rash at that scratch was suspect. A trial of antibiotics and all symptoms resolved. It wasn't Lyme, but it was Lyme-like, and there are lots of things like that. Luckily, a select group of antibiotics cover most of them regardless what they are. Many cured people may never know exactly what it was that made them sick, only that they got better on antibiotics when dozens of other doctors and meds failed.

>When I went for the exam, no joints were swollen..my luck..lol. But my symptoms were just like rheumatoid arthritis, according to the websites. But because my Xrays came back ok and arthritis tests negative, along with not seeing my swollen joints, Dr. couldnt make a conclusion, although he was one of the better ones I had seen and took time to think about my situation. When I quit the Effexor, the joint swelling and pain went away and never came back.

I have a theory. Purely my own. That is, most antidepressants have some positive function on immune function. When pathogens are killed off in high numbers, there is a Herx response...that is, general worsening of symptoms, often dramatic, with entire body inflammation. Could it be that an antidepressant boosts the immune system enough to cause that? I think it does. I have furuncles now many years unsuccessfully treated. A normal immune system should kill them off in no time. Well, when I tried Lexapro, guess what, they went away in days, along with feeling like total crap and a lot more depressed. I blamed it on Lexapro. Now I wonder. I think it was a Herx response. I was killing a lot of stuff as evidenced by that longtime infection disappearing so fast. And then there was Wellbutrin. First couple days, no prob. By the third day I was in the deepest darkest place...but those furuncles were gone. Another Herx reaction? Sounds like you and me experience the same things, blamed as a bad reaction to a med, but in fact probably the intoxication of lots of toxins secreted from dying organisms. And it probably needed an antibiotic to get over the hump. Our immune systems alone couldn't do it.

Whatever the case, you had systemic inflammation on those meds, which points to a dysfunctional immune system and its over-reaction to something that is not a threat. And that points to a Lyme, Lyme-like, or yeast infection.

>
> What really distracted me was when you mentioned Candida. I recently posted about a lucid dream I had where i envisioned a 2-word phrase with the word Candida. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090104/msgs/877122.html
> Of course I couldn't help but mention this. This dream was probably 5 years ago, but not sure. Doesn't yogurt destroy Candida? Could it be that simple?

Yogurt does not destroy Candida. Candida is actually tough to get rid of. There are powerful herbs such as Pau'D Arco and Grapefruit Seed Extract that are deadly to Candida. And medicines such as Nystatin. They feed on sugars and grains. A Candida diet is helpful when taking those herbs or meds, as it steals their food. They multiply very fast and are opportunists. If there isn't enough friendly bacteria, Candida quickly takes over that property. That's where yogurt and probiotic supplements come in. As Candida killers are consumed, and a Candida diet is implemented, yogurt and probiotics fill the void so that the quickly multiplying Candida have no place to settle in. Yogurt by itself is helpful but in no way curative.

>
> The brain fog got much worse with recent retry of Wellbutrin. I thought maybe because it was the generic version that I had not tried previously. The Zoloft made the brain fog worse, but when I added Wellbutrin, it was 5 times worse.
>
> My health food store is giving a live blood analysis on Feb. 11th, and if i can get an appt., I was thinking of going. I just don't trust it, wondering if its a scam and the person doing the test is just going to show me the normal bacterias or whatever everyone has in their systems then try to sell me products to mitigage the 'results'. I guess for $35, it would be worth the risk. It's done by a CNHP specialist.
>
> I also got a referral for a Lyme specialist from the Lyme foundation, but it's an hour and a half away - to see an internist. It's so hard when you don't have money, like many of us here who are contending with chronic mental health issues. If i had the money, I would be going to all sorts of doctors and specialists. I think I'm going to wait on the Lyme guy, just put that possibility in the back of my mind for now.

Perseonally, just opinion, I would put the Lyme guy at the top of list. If someone has to take a backseat, make it the Endo and the Pdoc. Keep in mind too, based on what I've heard from other LLMD patients and my own, these MDs are quite expert at a wide variety of subjects, as so many multisystemic problems arise in Lyme or Lyme-like diseases. LLMDs are often expert on endo stuff, psych stuff, diet stuff, and the whole picture, and likely more so than the individual specialists we might see.

>

> But yeah, this is it in a nutshell:
> "Anxiety is also a top symptom. Really tired, foggy, hungover, just not with it, and yet at the same time there is unprovoked inner anxiousness."

Looks mysterious...on the surface. In context with all of your symptoms, history, and reactions, it is actually quite a "significantly suggestive" presentation. From a purely logical point of view, it makes a lot more sense than anything else that has crossed your path.

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed bleauberry

Posted by Garnet71 on February 8, 2009, at 16:56:09

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed garnet71, posted by bleauberry on February 8, 2009, at 16:25:46

Thanks again, Bleauberry. So much useful information there. Unfortunately, I'll have to make the PDoc the priority; appt.is thurs. I will call the office of the Lyme specialist and discuss it with them. As for the Endo, I called around and spoke directly to the nurses about findng one that considers things outside the realm of diabetes and thyroid--I said I specifically needed a dr. who specializes in the other areas, also one that takes the time to figure out the cause of your symptoms; someone who will think and listen. Talking to the nurses was very effective. I want to mention Lyme to the endo first to see what she says before I move on as if my health insurance gets reinstatd tomorrow, I will be covered for this visit and tests.

Today, at the exact time as yesterday, I had a panic attack and racing thoughts at the same time, on the verge of a breakdown like yesterday. I had never had bipolar symptoms before last week. My fear is getting into the psych system again, and given drug after drug after drug and being dibilitated with or intolerable to side effects like before. But I need to be stable first I guess. I have no Ativan left until Thursday, no health insurance, and am very scared.

I was on my way to a birthday party and almost lost it; turned to drive to the hospital, remembered I had no health insurance, then took the last of my Ativan and drove to the party.

I do need to check all options so that I can get back to graduate school by summer. I need to be at my best by then; hopefully the plan will work out. Right now, I'm exhausted.

I really appreciate your taking the time to fill me in with all that infor.; I am also going to get the blood analysis that tests for yeasts and parasites. I can also take those results to the Endo for professional opinion.

I'll keep you posted.

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed Garnet71

Posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2009, at 19:08:46

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed bleauberry, posted by Garnet71 on February 8, 2009, at 16:56:09

Endo will definitively test the thyroid and ranges have changed as to what normal now is. Also will test for Tpo antibodies to rule out an autoimmune cause for a thyroid disorder. Optimal range now for thyroid is l-2 per my endo. That is where he wants me. Google normal thyroid values. Also mine did say could see infection control specialist again as to check to see if lymes's active again. Since Western Blot remains positive but he wouldn't give a referral. I said so what do I say when they ask you sent you and he said say me. So in a way that's a referral. My pdoc said she would get me an appointment with the lymes infection control specialist who treated me when so active. Phillipa

 

Re: Check your Mail ; - ) To Garnet/fr Jade (nm)

Posted by JadeKelly on February 8, 2009, at 19:56:41

In reply to Short-term med tactic needed, posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 21:18:07

 

Re: Check your Mail ; - ) To Garnet/fr Jade JadeKelly

Posted by Garnet71 on February 8, 2009, at 21:13:01

In reply to Re: Check your Mail ; - ) To Garnet/fr Jade (nm), posted by JadeKelly on February 8, 2009, at 19:56:41

Thanks, Jade. I'm really confused right now.

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed Phillipa

Posted by Garnet71 on February 8, 2009, at 21:15:42

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed Garnet71, posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2009, at 19:08:46

I'm going to ask my endochronologist what she thinks about Lyme. I'm not sure if I'm going to have health insurance, so I may not be able to get treatments I need.

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed Garnet71

Posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2009, at 23:25:25

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed Phillipa, posted by Garnet71 on February 8, 2009, at 21:15:42

Western Blot is only a blood test can be added to the thyroid one. Good luck. Phillipa

 

Re: Short-term med tactic needed garnet71

Posted by seldomseen on February 9, 2009, at 11:12:49

In reply to Short-term med tactic needed, posted by garnet71 on February 6, 2009, at 21:18:07

Now, I am no psychiatrist, however, after reading your posts and thinking about your symptoms, I think you should give the lamictal a shot.

You indicate that you have at least a second degree relative with a so called "psychotic" disorder, and I suspect, based on your description, a first degree relative as well.

This does put you in a higher risk category for maybe not actually having the disorder, but for exhibiting tendencies.

In my opinion, there is a lot of crossover between mania, mixed state depression and generalized anxiety disorder. Currently the diagnosis du jour is Bipolar, but I think it is actually more of a Venn diagram of symptoms. I think the lamictal will help.

My mother is full-on type 1 bipolar. Lamictal has really helped her.

I would also like to comment on something you wrote:

"Could the anxiety just be from a sudden withdrawal? I didn't taper as well as I should have. I had to get them out of my body."

Well, yes, the anxiety could be from sudden cessation of meds. But most importantly, the "I had to get them out of my body" is *verbatim* what my mother says when she would decide to quit taking her meds. In this instance, the similarity may be just coincidence, I fully acknowledge, but I was just struck by the use of the exact same phrase. It may be significant.

Regarding the tiredness, hung-over feeling, that could be coming from the Ativan, but in my experience, anxiety is just simply exhausting. It is so hard to maintain that level of vigilance that your brain is telling you to maintain. If one puts an animal under constant stress, they exhibit many of the failure to thrive symptoms that chronic anxiety/mania sufferers do.

I would also suggest that the candida overbloom is something that should be considered, along with blood sugar levels in tandem with your anxiety treatment. The intense craving for sweets/carbs I do think is a symptom that should not be overlooked. Also be sure that you are eating small meals throughout the day to avoid gross fluctuations in your blood sugar.

How did you get tears in your retina? Is that the same as retinal detachment?

I wish you luck at your appointment, please do keep us posted.

Peace

Seldom.

 

Update and thanks

Posted by garnet71 on February 9, 2009, at 17:21:50

In reply to Re: Short-term med tactic needed garnet71, posted by seldomseen on February 9, 2009, at 11:12:49

Thanks for offering your opinions, Seldomseen. I totally agree about total body exhaustion from maintaining anxiety and panic. I haven't ruled out all my options, so I'll think about what you said. SS, the retinal tears are just from the shape of a very nearsighted eye--your cornea shape is distorted, more oval instead of round. THis puts strain on the retina, stretches it. People as nearsighted as me all have a considerable chance of retinal detachment someday, and the tears are a sort of slow, protracted detachment.

I wanted to let you all know about my appointment with the endocronologist today.

I don't even know what all of these mean, but the tests ordered were:

Lyme-both enzymes
Iron & Ferritin
Follicle Stim. Hormone (FSH)
Luteinzing Hormone (LH)
Vitamin D
Comp. Metabolic Panel
Basic Metabolic Panel
Iron
TSH/Thyroid Stim. Horm.
Free T4
Thyroid Antibodies
Cortisol
Adrenocorticotripic Hormone
Urine Metanephrines - part of cortisol, i think
24-Hr urine catecholamine
Creatine Battery 24 hour urine
Cortisol (oo)

One of these tests is Cushings related; 2 neurotransmitters are included in the test above -she said one is neuroephrinine, I think. I don't remember the techical name of the other one.

She was very reluctant to order the cortisol and Lyme tests, but I pushed for them. She said Lyme would be in area of infectuous disease, outside her expertise, and that I did not seem to have any cortisol-related issues. Because I have no digestive problems, they always seem to immediately rule things certain things out. I honestly cannot wait weeks upon weeks, if the other tests were negative, then follow up appointments, more testing, etc. to get back to normal. The vision problems will be addressed by my opthamologist this month, so we didn't talk about that.

I have a feeling that many of the tests will be normal or close to normal, that I have wasted a lot of money I do not have. If anything stood out to her, it was only the potential of thyroid imbalance. For adrenal exhaustion or Cushings, she said weight loss is a major symptom for adrenal, and that I don't appear to have Cushings, but I told her my body feel so completely out of whack, what if the possiblilty exists that I have another imblance that mitigates the weight loss, so she agreed to the tests. I'm really tired of only be considered for "one diagnosis". I was absolutely shocked to find I had gained 30 pounds in only 2 months!!!! I have been eating so many healthy foods, although I crave sugar and carbs which I'm sure have contributed to this gain, I honestly cannot see where it all came from.

I also (briefly) asked her about long-term xxRI use that results in hormonal imbalance, and she said she had never heard of any such research. She was very young and very sharp, and I feel comfortable with the outcome of the appointment, though it was very rushed. They really don't have time to think about all of the stuff we find on the internet.

I gave 6 vials of blood today; the 24 hour tests I start tomorrow, and one involves getting a script filled, then getting my blood drawn 24 hours later. My head hurts so bad. I haven't taken any Ativan since about 1 pm yesterday, have none left, stayed up all night last night, but just slept 4 hours and woke up with a headache and burnt feeling in my brain. Piece of mind, though, is closer now.

The strangest thing is that I found out today I was only 37 years old; I have been thinking for months that I was 38. Good sign of being a basket case...lol.

So when the tests come back, I'll update you all if in doing so, it will help another.

Thanks for all the advice and I'll post another update in a couple of weeks when she calls me with all the results!!


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