Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 775476

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 97. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Still no cure for my depression - tried everything

Posted by Enigma on August 11, 2007, at 11:35:41

Out of work now for over a year, and it's going to be tough as hell to live in my current house on state disability.

Just had my 8th ECT session, 3 of which were bilateral, and this is my 2nd round of ECT treatments (had 8-10 sessions a year ago). If anything I feel worse than when I started. Just left a message on the doctor that I no longer want to continue treatments. Only had 2 more scheduled treatments anyway. What's the point if all they do is cause MORE pain?

Prior to this, tried every drug/cocktail in the book.. pretty much literally. AD's, mood stabilizers, anti-psychotics, etc. They either didn't work at all, had severe side-effects I needed other meds to treat (that didn't work), or made me suicidal, psychotic, or more depressed, a zombie, etc. Fun!

Since I left my job, basically all "incoming" communication with my so-called "friends", has stopped. If I don't constantly email or call them, they don't contact me. Good friends huh? I wish they would all.. ahh, nm. I tried the "friendship test". Don't contact them at all, and see how long (if ever) it takes for them to contact you. Well, out of 10+ people I was, what most people would say "fairly good friends" with, not ONE has contacted me.

Changing back to my condition...
So pdoc my "specialist" is stumped, and has no idea what to prescribe for me, and his idea was to try ECT again, even though I KNEW it was going to be a complete waste of my time.

So here I am, everyday wanted to die, but can't, as I won't do that to my wife and kids. Unfortunately, I care for others more than I do myself, so, they unknowingly keep me trapped "here", in this miserable existence. I'm too depressed to even enjoy having a family, or anything else for that matter.

So what now?

I'm thinking of going back on the horrible Nardil, which was about the only drug that produced some AD effects, but not without pretty massive side effects. The SE's usually win and I quit taking the drug. This would be my 4th time trying to tolerate it.

Are there any new drugs? (tried Emsam, had nasty skin reactions to it and had to stop it).. Is there anything I can do?

Therapy has never helped me either. I'm textbook treatment resistant. Joy.

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything Enigma

Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 12:17:21

In reply to Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2007, at 11:35:41

Gee I'm so sorry. Was there absolutely no way you could treat the EMSAM skin rash? Cortisone cream? I just wish you well and maybe try a new pdoc or a University? Love Phillipa

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt Enigma

Posted by Bob on August 11, 2007, at 14:12:35

In reply to Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2007, at 11:35:41

Joy:

I'm reading your post, and except for minor details, it could be me that wrote it. I too have undergone ECT treatments which had extremely mixed and often terrifying results. I too have had a terrible, terrible time with meds, and struggle to tolerate them just for the vanishingly small bits of help they provide. I don't really know what to do any longer, but wanted you to know that you are not the only one like that out there. Not that it necessarily provides any consolation.

Bob

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything

Posted by nickguy on August 11, 2007, at 15:04:49

In reply to Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2007, at 11:35:41

> Out of work now for over a year, and it's going to be tough as hell to live in my current house on state disability.
>
> Just had my 8th ECT session, 3 of which were bilateral, and this is my 2nd round of ECT treatments (had 8-10 sessions a year ago). If anything I feel worse than when I started. Just left a message on the doctor that I no longer want to continue treatments. Only had 2 more scheduled treatments anyway. What's the point if all they do is cause MORE pain?
>
> Prior to this, tried every drug/cocktail in the book.. pretty much literally. AD's, mood stabilizers, anti-psychotics, etc. They either didn't work at all, had severe side-effects I needed other meds to treat (that didn't work), or made me suicidal, psychotic, or more depressed, a zombie, etc. Fun!
>
> Since I left my job, basically all "incoming" communication with my so-called "friends", has stopped. If I don't constantly email or call them, they don't contact me. Good friends huh? I wish they would all.. ahh, nm. I tried the "friendship test". Don't contact them at all, and see how long (if ever) it takes for them to contact you. Well, out of 10+ people I was, what most people would say "fairly good friends" with, not ONE has contacted me.
>
> Changing back to my condition...
> So pdoc my "specialist" is stumped, and has no idea what to prescribe for me, and his idea was to try ECT again, even though I KNEW it was going to be a complete waste of my time.
>
> So here I am, everyday wanted to die, but can't, as I won't do that to my wife and kids. Unfortunately, I care for others more than I do myself, so, they unknowingly keep me trapped "here", in this miserable existence. I'm too depressed to even enjoy having a family, or anything else for that matter.
>
> So what now?
>
> I'm thinking of going back on the horrible Nardil, which was about the only drug that produced some AD effects, but not without pretty massive side effects. The SE's usually win and I quit taking the drug. This would be my 4th time trying to tolerate it.
>
> Are there any new drugs? (tried Emsam, had nasty skin reactions to it and had to stop it).. Is there anything I can do?
>
> Therapy has never helped me either. I'm textbook treatment resistant. Joy.
>


Probably not much consolation either, but the fact that you care about your family so much that they keep you here is an amazing gift of love that you should be proud of and shows that theres love in you- there's gotta be atleast some hope in that. Otherwise, have you tried parnate? You said nardil had some decent AD effect for you, and parnate is a similar drug. I just started parnate, and haven't had really any side effects besides some dry mouth and a little difficulty sleeping.

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt

Posted by Enigma on August 11, 2007, at 17:10:33

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt Enigma, posted by Bob on August 11, 2007, at 14:12:35

> Joy:
>
> I'm reading your post, and except for minor details, it could be me that wrote it. I too have undergone ECT treatments which had extremely mixed and often terrifying results. I too have had a terrible, terrible time with meds, and struggle to tolerate them just for the vanishingly small bits of help they provide. I don't really know what to do any longer, but wanted you to know that you are not the only one like that out there. Not that it necessarily provides any consolation.
>
> Bob
>
>

Heh, my name isn't Joy. I meant it as a sarcastic adjective. I haven't stopped saying it since I saw my first Ren & Stimpy episode.

Anyway, I'm not glad you are in the same boat, but it IS good to know that I'm not alone. I could swear I read that a few million people have treatment resistant depression, which is odd, as most doctors I've been to are fairly surprised by it, and by their "treatment" of me, I can swear that I'm the only treatment resistant patient they have ever had.

Thanks for responding.


 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt

Posted by Enigma on August 11, 2007, at 17:19:06

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by nickguy on August 11, 2007, at 15:04:49

>
> Probably not much consolation either, but the fact that you care about your family so much that they keep you here is an amazing gift of love that you should be proud of and shows that theres love in you- there's gotta be atleast some hope in that. Otherwise, have you tried parnate? You said nardil had some decent AD effect for you, and parnate is a similar drug. I just started parnate, and haven't had really any side effects besides some dry mouth and a little difficulty sleeping.
>

Actually I tried Parnate before I tried Nardil. I think I had *every* side-effect they list on their little drug info sheet, even the rare ones. I couldn't tolerate it for more than a few days to a week I think.

Nardil, at least one of the times I took it, basically "stole" my sleep cycle from me, then at random time, I'd find myself asleep on the floor of my computer room for 2-4 hours at a time. I literally had no sleep cycle. Tried all sorts of sleep aids, nothing helped. Then, over a period of a few months, the insomnia went away, but I had other side-effects, like nausea, dizziness, headaches, and other stuff I forget right now.

I still have about a month's supply of Emsam left. Maybe I could try the cortizone cream. Unfortunately, just having the patch on all day itches terribly, so just keeping in on was tough.
Can you cut them (I have the strongest dose) patch in half, and wear it in two places?

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt

Posted by stargazer2 on August 11, 2007, at 18:08:37

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2007, at 17:19:06

Enigma, I am in your place with the exception of trying ECT and that is where I drew the line with the treatments I have undergone. I worked in ECT and never felt good about the results I saw. I too have been unemployed for over a year and I feel so useless and dispensible since for most of us, work gives us self esteem and in this society work is all you are. I have a few friends but they do not understand depression, who could, unless you've been there.

The latest thing I have tried is an endocrinology workup which may be a good place to try and see if you are hypothyroid or figure out if your adrenals may have pooped out with chronic depression. I just started on Synthroid and my lab values have not come back yet but the nurse practitioner felt my value of TSH from last year (Thyroid stimulating hormone) was slightly high. She felt this should be supplemented and it is known that thyroid hormone pays a BIG role in depression. THyroid meds used to be used more regularly along with AD's for TRD. Why the docs don't have us go in for a endo consult early in our depression treatment is beyond me. More of the same stuff that always keeps us from getting better is all they are comfortable doing but my treatment has been ongoing for 20 years (1987) with meds. I had results in 1987 w nardil, 1991 w marplan and some successful with Celexa, wellbutrin and adderall. Right now I am on nardil but recently had a hypertensive reaction which scared the living daylights out of me, and my doc. I had added a stimulant to the nardil and it reacted.

I swear If you give up hope and stop trying the doctors will too. Sometimes I feel the pdocs do the same thing over and over becasue even they are clueless about why to try next.

It is entirely our own battle which we choose to either continue to fight or give up at. The endocrine workup may be a good place to try an find out if your thyroid or adrenal function is working or functioning poorly. I'm not sure it is the answer but I feel more positive about the approach of the nurse practitioner there. She was very smart and just that she put me on Synthroid when my values were really only slightly high was a good sign.

I'm all for less, useless psych meds and a different type of med to try and get something going. THis may be something that could help you too.

I hope you find some relief soon, I know what you are going through, no work, depression and an existence that seems meaningless. So many of us here can relate to what you are going through and wish we could offer help and valuable suggestions. At least there is psychobabble to reach out to when no one else understands us, right?

Stargazer

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything Enigma

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 11, 2007, at 19:02:01

In reply to Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2007, at 11:35:41

> Out of work now for over a year, and it's going to be tough as hell to live in my current house on state disability.
>
> Just had my 8th ECT session, 3 of which were bilateral, and this is my 2nd round of ECT treatments (had 8-10 sessions a year ago). If anything I feel worse than when I started. Just left a message on the doctor that I no longer want to continue treatments. Only had 2 more scheduled treatments anyway. What's the point if all they do is cause MORE pain?
>
> Prior to this, tried every drug/cocktail in the book.. pretty much literally. AD's, mood stabilizers, anti-psychotics, etc. They either didn't work at all, had severe side-effects I needed other meds to treat (that didn't work), or made me suicidal, psychotic, or more depressed, a zombie, etc. Fun!
>
> Since I left my job, basically all "incoming" communication with my so-called "friends", has stopped. If I don't constantly email or call them, they don't contact me. Good friends huh? I wish they would all.. ahh, nm. I tried the "friendship test". Don't contact them at all, and see how long (if ever) it takes for them to contact you. Well, out of 10+ people I was, what most people would say "fairly good friends" with, not ONE has contacted me.
>
> Changing back to my condition...
> So pdoc my "specialist" is stumped, and has no idea what to prescribe for me, and his idea was to try ECT again, even though I KNEW it was going to be a complete waste of my time.
>
> So here I am, everyday wanted to die, but can't, as I won't do that to my wife and kids. Unfortunately, I care for others more than I do myself, so, they unknowingly keep me trapped "here", in this miserable existence. I'm too depressed to even enjoy having a family, or anything else for that matter.
>
> So what now?
>
> I'm thinking of going back on the horrible Nardil, which was about the only drug that produced some AD effects, but not without pretty massive side effects. The SE's usually win and I quit taking the drug. This would be my 4th time trying to tolerate it.
>
> Are there any new drugs? (tried Emsam, had nasty skin reactions to it and had to stop it).. Is there anything I can do?
>
> Therapy has never helped me either. I'm textbook treatment resistant. Joy.
>
>

What antipsychotics (specifically..please list all names and doses) and mood stabilizers (again, please be specific) have you tried? There are some very novel medications and combinations (even many you nor I haven't heard of on here) available.

Jay

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt stargazer2

Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 20:56:09

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by stargazer2 on August 11, 2007, at 18:08:37

Stargazer I hope you had cortisol levels drawn. The best is to have it done at various times of the day as it varies you may also do your own with a 24 hour saliva test. I think adrenal fatigue may be part of your problem just a hunch. But hopefully the synthroid will help a whole bunch. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt Enigma

Posted by Bob on August 11, 2007, at 21:24:50

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2007, at 17:10:33


>
> Heh, my name isn't Joy. I meant it as a sarcastic adjective. I haven't stopped saying it since I saw my first Ren & Stimpy episode.
>
> Anyway, I'm not glad you are in the same boat, but it IS good to know that I'm not alone. I could swear I read that a few million people have treatment resistant depression, which is odd, as most doctors I've been to are fairly surprised by it, and by their "treatment" of me, I can swear that I'm the only treatment resistant patient they have ever had.
>
> Thanks for responding.
>
>
>

Ha! And I had half a mind to include a statement in my first response commenting on the irony of your name. Good think I didn't.

Anyway, you continue to read my mind. I also have little indication that there are people as disabled or more so than I out there. My therapist has told me more than once how she's been practicing for 35 years and has never seen anyone even remotely like me. I don't probe too much about where I fall in the spectrum of severity relative to my psychiatrist's other patients, as I'm afraid of what the answer might be. I too often feel like I'm the only one, or the first human that's ever felt like this. I know it's preposterous, but this is a lonely disease when it gets this bad. Most other chronic serious diseases seem to have much more public support and recognition. I have yet to see someone with one of those colored ribbons on their cars for "treatment resistant depression". I think the general public thinks that people just go take medicines and get better (that's when they think about it at all).

My guess is severe treatment resistant people are falling into the shadows and the cracks when the options dwindle and drain away. I mean, I've made it as urgently obvious as possible to a number of doctors just how dire I feel my situation is, and nothing good or different ever came out of it. In fact, I sometimes got the feeling that they hoped I wouldn't make another appointment.

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Bob on August 11, 2007, at 21:28:15

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything Enigma, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 11, 2007, at 19:02:01


>
> What antipsychotics (specifically..please list all names and doses) and mood stabilizers (again, please be specific) have you tried? There are some very novel medications and combinations (even many you nor I haven't heard of on here) available.
>
> Jay
>
>

What meds are available that we haven't heard of on here?

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt Bob

Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 22:05:43

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Bob on August 11, 2007, at 21:28:15

Not many that I know of but I am not a med expert. But I vote for ribbons on our cars but then we would be ostracized probably but it was a really good point. But you know I see people in wheelchairs and like my Son blind and suddenly I'm not as depressed or anxious just thankful for my ability to walk and see. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything Enigma

Posted by Jedi on August 11, 2007, at 23:52:45

In reply to Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2007, at 11:35:41

...
> I'm thinking of going back on the horrible Nardil, which was about the only drug that produced some AD effects, but not without pretty massive side effects. The SE's usually win and I quit taking the drug. This would be my 4th time trying to tolerate it.
...

Hi Enigma,
The side effects of Nardil can be really bad. I've been off of it four times in the past ten years trying to find something that would work without the side effects. I started Nardil again one week ago.

I am assuming that you only get a partial remission from Nardil, or the side effects would not matter to you. IMHO there is nothing worse than the pain of treatment resistant depression.

What have you augmented Nardil with?
Some I have tried:
clonazepam(still using it, currently at 2mg)
nortriptyline
bupropion

Some I haven't tried, but are on my list:
lithium
lamotrigine
modafinil
methylphenidate
concerta or ritilan sr(generic)

Opioids have always made my depression better. Alas, the legal issues. If I could just get a MD to prescribe buprenorphine, I think I might be OK.

Another option, similar to the "California Rocket Fuel" of venlafaxine combined with mirtazapine; would be duloxetine (the newer SNRI) combined with mirtazapine. Just shooting in the dark here.
Reference:
http://www.ijpm.net/content/pdf/327/casemg.pdf

Good Luck,
Jedi

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything

Posted by Cecilia on August 12, 2007, at 1:41:00

In reply to Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2007, at 11:35:41

You are definitely not alone, Enigma. I too am in the same situation, except haven't tried ECT, did have transcranial magnetic stimulation though, which didn't help. And doctors ARE clueless, they think AD's work better than they do because most of the patients they don't work for either go to another doctor or give up on doctors altogether. It never occurs to them to wonder, how is so and so doing, it's out of sight, out of mind. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are few, most are quite glad if their treatment resistant patients don't come back. Cecilia

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt

Posted by Enigma on August 13, 2007, at 12:05:57

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by stargazer2 on August 11, 2007, at 18:08:37

> Enigma, I am in your place with the exception of trying ECT and that is where I drew the line with the treatments I have undergone. I worked in ECT and never felt good about the results I saw.

I called a couple days ago and left a message to cancel my remaining ect's. Then, since then, I had 3 semi-good days in a row, with no meds, which is very rare for me. So, now I'm really wondering if it's a fluke, an "up-cycle" or "good stint", or the ECT having some effect. We called the doc again to have him call and talk to me about it. But, during my last treatment, he did say, the MOST ECT would do, IF it worked, was give me 30% improvement. For the "torture" of going through ECT, I really want much more than a "possible" 30%.

>I too have been unemployed for over a year and I feel so useless and dispensible since for most of us, work gives us self esteem and in this society work is all you are. I have a few friends but they do not understand depression, who could, unless you've been there.
>

You're so lucky you have some friends, even if they can't understand your depression (I've found almost no one without depression truly understands it, and of course I've met WAY too many people who have harshly judged me, thinking I'm weak, etc, and that the depression is something I should just "snap out of". Nothing makes me more angry than this type of ignorance about depression, and mental illness in general - especially when it's SO easy to pop on the web (and other non-tech sources) real info on these REAL disorders.
I'm still at a complete loss why my so-called-coworker friends all abandoned me, and it really, really, really bothers me. Anyway, I could write pages on that subject...

> The latest thing I have tried is an endocrinology workup which may be a good place to try and see if you are hypothyroid or figure out if your adrenals may have pooped out with chronic depression.

I'm going to print out this section of your message and pursue this path. There's no way I'm giving up, for a handful of reasons, mainly as I can't tolerate "living" this way, and I need to get better, for my family.

>results in 1987 w nardil, 1991 w marplan and some successful with Celexa, wellbutrin and adderall. Right now I am on nardil but recently had a hypertensive reaction which scared the living daylights out of me, and my doc. I had added a stimulant to the nardil and it reacted.

1987, ouch. I've only been severely depressed for a couple years, and bipolar/hypo-manic/depressed for many years before that, since maybe 1990-ish.
I've tried all the above meds. I had a couple hypertensive reactions, and yes, they are scary. I do have a med to take in case I get one. Procardia - some docs don't even know about it. Sad.

> I'm all for less, useless psych meds and a different type of med to try and get something going. THis may be something that could help you too.
>

With all my AD failures, I feel the same way. I've always felt something else was wrong and I don't have "standard" depression.

> I hope you find some relief soon, I know what you are going through, no work, depression and an existence that seems meaningless. So many of us here can relate to what you are going through and wish we could offer help and valuable suggestions. At least there is psychobabble to reach out to when no one else understands us, right?
>

Yep, I've been posting here off and on for years?. It definitely helps. I've been so scared and worried lately, so much that it causes insomnia (which I take Klonopin for, which is losing it's effect btw) about my situation. I have NO life insurance (it used to be through work), I'm worried about how long we can afford to live here (our dream house/neighborhood, to a degree anyway), and if I'll EVER be able to work again. Very, very worried...

Thanks for the post and support.

-E of Manchester, NH, USA

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt

Posted by Enigma on August 13, 2007, at 13:37:13

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything Enigma, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 11, 2007, at 19:02:01

> What antipsychotics (specifically..please list all names and doses) and mood stabilizers (again, please be specific) have you tried? There are some very novel medications and combinations (even many you nor I haven't heard of on here) available.
>
> Jay
>

Heh, that's not going to be an easy one. I have a big list, and hopefully it's electronic form is on my PC. I just found and updated it with all the info I have - taken from pill bottles I still have, my horrible memory, wife's memory, etc. It's a LOT of text. There's still stuff missing from it that's probably lost forever.

Here:

Last Updated 8/13/07 (even listing old meds not previously listed)

Blanket Statement about my drug/meds treatment:

In general, most drugs I took apply for the following blanket statement:
Most drugs were started at manufacturers recommended doses, and via following directions/dosages on "sample/starter packs", and/or doctors recommendations. Sample packs, etc were almost always used first, if they existed. If no serious side effects occurred, the dosage was moved up slowly over time to manufacturers recommended maintenance dosage. Many drugs were taken for about 3-9 weeks, or much longer for some and discontinued if side effects became intolerable, or no noticable AD/anti-mania effect was felt, or the drug "pooped out" over many months of use.

Note: Almost all drugs had some mild to heavy (usually intolerable) side effects (usually 2-4 different side effects). Many were similar, and many I cannot recall in detail for each particular drug. Usually, side effects consisted of dizzyness, light headedness, headaches, out of touch with reality/other worldly feeling, zombie like feeling, nausea, increased sweating, anorgasmia, other sexual dysfunction, fatigue (usually severe and most common of all drugs), insomnia, too much sleep, lack of feeling refreshed from sleep, nightmares, inability to stay asleep, or to wake up, constant and frequest urination, night terrors - waking up kicking, punching, yelling, ending as soon as I woke, increased irritability/lack of patience, manic type feelings, etc.

There were a few other side effects I can't recall at the moment - in general, if the drug information from the pharmacy listed possible side effects, I almost always suffered from many of them. I've been, in my opinion, very sensitive to the side effects of these meds, while many other people who take these drugs, feels little to no side effects (data derived from message boards of people posting about their experience with these drugs and people I knew who are on some of these meds or have taken them)

Note: not in any meaningful order, dates listed are prescription fill dates from the bottles I still have. Entire range of dosage(s) not listed/cannot recall.

Procardia - 06/2005 - 10mg - as needed for hypertensive crisis

Restoril 06/2005 - 15mg x 1-2 day for insomnia - don't remember it working

Topamax - 12/2006, 01/2007, 03/2007 - 25mg x 2 a day, later 100mg x 1 per day - no positive effect noted, except for weight loss, and had to discon. due to have no appetite at all.

Serzone - 04/2007 - taken for 1.5 months, max dose 700 mg. Each 100 mg increase seemed to provide AD effects, but they only lasted 1-3 days. Quit at 700 as it didn't seem to provide any sustained AD effect. No notable side-effects to speak of.

Vivactyl - 12/2006 - 5mg x 3x day - horrible side effects, severe irritability, rage, anger, discon. after 2-3 days

Nardil - 11/2005, 07/2006, 9/2006, 11/2006 - Currently taking for the past 5+? months at 45mg per day, also tried 60mg from time to time, but found side effects intolerable - had the best antidepressant effect as any drug I've tried, but side effects are severe. Usually constant fatigue, frequent sweating, expecially in summer or after small exersion, frequest urination, completely broken sleep cycle - insomnia, where I can't sleep some nights untill 4-6 AM, as well as random boughts of bringing me almost unconcious with fatigue, requiring immediate nap, usually occuring when I am sitting down. Frequent urination, several times a night, inorgasmia, dizzyness, expescially if getting up from a sitting down position. Night terrors, waking up yelling, kicking, punching, etc. Sometimes can't stop dreaming about the same dream. Sleeping not restful, nor consistent no matter how hard I try. Sleeping pills prescribed to help, but have had very little positive effect. 45mg seems too low as depression starts to return, but 60mg usually makes the above side effect worse, and intolerable. I'll even mention the obvious, it's an MAOI, I can't eat certain foods, have alcohol, over the counter drugs, etc. I did have a few bad reactions to drug interactions already. No food reactions yet, just alcohol and OTC med reactions. Update - tried to continue Nardil 2 more times stopping due to side-effects, again.

Emsam - highest dose (ending at 12mg/24hrs) - couldn't tolerate application site reactions - red, swollen, itchy rash - took lowest dose for 1 month - no AD effect, switched to highest dose for 2 months. Pretty good AD effect (best I've had on a med?)

Both Emsam and Nardil cause sweating with almost no exersion (drinking coffee, being outside in sun, vacuuming a room), night sweats every night, severe insomnia - can barely sleep 3-4 hours in a row and still toss and turn, restless when I wake up - no sleep schedule - Eventually got used to Nardil enough? so that the insomnia mostly went away. Lunesta helped for a time, as well as Melatonin - Impromtu naps - can't stay awake, 1-2 a day - No energy all day, fatigue - Mood was better with Emsam, Nardil it is moderate
Still take Klonpin 1-3 mg as needed. Take 2mg at night to sleep - only lasts 3-4 hours. Toss and turn all night (while still on Nardil). (Updated 8/2007) 2mg of K-pin isn't cutting it anymore, need 3-4mg

Ambien CR - 06/2006 - 12.5 mg x 1 per day - made me have wild dreams/mania and *caused* insomnia, dicontinued after 2 days

Lunesta - 5/2006 - 3mg x 1 per day - was working for sleep, pooped out quickly

Lexapro - Used starter pack - Discontinued with 1-2 weeks? or less. Side effects intolerable. Became too tired, zombie-like, etc, unable to function at all. Couldn't think or concentrate.

Effexor - Used starter pack - Discontinued after < 1-2 weeks, side effects worst of any drug, turned me into a zombie, dizzy, light headed, nausea, took 6 MONTHS to rid the dizzyness from my system - most likely withdrawal, even with tapering off slowly. Drug should be banned in my opinion.

Zoloft - Used starter pack, ended with 2x50mg/day? Unable to recall. Dosage raised slowly, discontinued after 1-2 months, no anti-depressant effect was felt.

Paxil - Used starter pack, Same experience with Zoloft

Prozac - 02/2005 - Used starter pack, then moved gradually to 40mg/2x day over a few months? Caused severe anxiety that other meds could not counteract, at highest dose taken (lower doses has no AD effect) - Some antidepressant effect felt, but ended up causing severe anxeity that other meds were prescribed to prevent such as Ativan and Klonpin. Anti anxiety drugs could not keep up with severe anxiety, had to discontinue Prozac.

Symbyax - Used starter pack, then had been taking 6/25, 6/50, 12/50 (x1/day), do not recall how many pills per day on other dosages - Similar to Prozac experience, but not as much anxiety. Has some antidepressent effect, then pooped out after some months, so discontinued - possibly other side effects I don't recall.

Wellbutrin - Took for years(2-3?, first AD prescribed, around 2000?), ended with XL 450mg/day - Started with early versions and ended to extended release, 1-2 day type pills. No anti-depressant ever felt, only felt increased daily energy, which is what I took it for. Side effects consisted of heavy abnormal sweating, lack of appetite, and manic-type symptoms. Finaly dicontinued as "pooped out", no longer gave me energy.

Depakote - Took in Combination with Wellbutrin for years to level me out - found out years later it was causing all my unexplained *severe* fatigue, so discontinued. Drug did help with irritability, road rage, etc.

Risperdal - 05/2005 - 2mg/day, Helped with depression for a while, possibly 4-6 months, then pooped out, discontinued. Took in combination with WB usually.

Cymbalta - Took for less than a week, caused a severe suicidal reaction I needed to be hospitalized for. Discontinued immediately, suicidal "drive" and uncontrolable crying stopped after discontinued use.

Parnate - 06/2005 - Ended at 40mg to day, tried right before Nardil, continued for 1-2 months. Almost exact same effects and symptoms as Nardil, but on a worse scale, making it intolerable to take. Forced to discontinue. Felt no AD effect.

Trileptal - 12/2003, 03/2004 - Last bottle I have shows 600mg/2x day - do not recall anything about this drug - maybe anti-mania, or to level me out. Found another bottle - 300mg 4x a day

Lamictal - 09/2004, 11/2006 - Last bottle I have shows 100mg/2x day - do not recall anything about this drug

Celexa/Citalopram - 03/2006, 04/2006 - 20mg x 1 per day - recall nothing about effectiveness - most likely, 0 AD effect, discontinued

Adderall - do not recall anything about this drug

Ativan - took this before switching to Klonopin as it pooped out - only took as needed, for anxiety
Lithium/Eskalith - 08/2005 - 450/x2 day - only took for a few days to augment Nardil - found side effects like dizzyness and nauses unbearable. Discontinued quickly.

Klonopin - 2mg, taken as needed (currently 1-5-06), to deal with random boughts of anxiety, stress, etc. Also helps me get to sleep while on Nardil. Has helped a great deal with anxiety in general. Been taking as needed for many months. No real side effects besides fatigue.

Zyprexa - 08/2006, 12/2006, 01/2007 - 2.5mg x 1-2 day - taken for mania symtoms, caused fairly severe weight gain and severe increase in appetite, had to discontinue. Do not recall any positive effect. Last dose 5mg x 3x day.
Strattera - 40mg bottle still exists/not sure how many pills a day, do not recall why I took this, possibly anti-mania, and to level me out?

Xanax - 03/2005 - .5mg x 3x day - Took for anti-anxiety - remember some side effects or no med effect - K-pin works better

Geodon - do not recall anything about this drug - last? sample bottle I have shows 60mg, may have been taking more than 1 per day

Seroquel - 01/2006 - 25mg x 1 every 4 hours as needed - remember being too tired the next day, that's all that I can remember about it - do not really it having any positive effect.

There ya have it. Hope someone gets something outta that. It's been edited for years.

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt

Posted by Enigma on August 13, 2007, at 14:08:08

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt Enigma, posted by Bob on August 11, 2007, at 21:24:50

>
> >
> > Heh, my name isn't Joy. I meant it as a sarcastic adjective. I haven't stopped saying it since I saw my first Ren & Stimpy episode.
> >
> > Anyway, I'm not glad you are in the same boat, but it IS good to know that I'm not alone. I could swear I read that a few million people have treatment resistant depression, which is odd, as most doctors I've been to are fairly surprised by it, and by their "treatment" of me, I can swear that I'm the only treatment resistant patient they have ever had.
> >
> > Thanks for responding.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Ha! And I had half a mind to include a statement in my first response commenting on the irony of your name. Good think I didn't.
>
> Anyway, you continue to read my mind. I also have little indication that there are people as disabled or more so than I out there. My therapist has told me more than once how she's been practicing for 35 years and has never seen anyone even remotely like me. I don't probe too much about where I fall in the spectrum of severity relative to my psychiatrist's other patients, as I'm afraid of what the answer might be. I too often feel like I'm the only one, or the first human that's ever felt like this. I know it's preposterous, but this is a lonely disease when it gets this bad. Most other chronic serious diseases seem to have much more public support and recognition. I have yet to see someone with one of those colored ribbons on their cars for "treatment resistant depression". I think the general public thinks that people just go take medicines and get better (that's when they think about it at all).
>
> My guess is severe treatment resistant people are falling into the shadows and the cracks when the options dwindle and drain away. I mean, I've made it as urgently obvious as possible to a number of doctors just how dire I feel my situation is, and nothing good or different ever came out of it. In fact, I sometimes got the feeling that they hoped I wouldn't make another appointment.

Hehe, Joy would have been a totally ironic name for me for sure. I'm not even female either.

Anyway, AMAZING post. Now *you* are writing about MY exact experiences. ;) I never heard anyone put it quite the way you did.. "a lonely disease". That gets 5/5 stars *and* 2 thumbs up. Even with a wife and 3 kids, and WHEN I HAD friends, I still felt/feel like the loneliest person on the planet.

Going to a doctor, and then specialists on top of that, and STILL EASILY managing to stump them, is very discouraging/annoying/frustrating/depressing and so on.

Honestly, this sounds sick and all, but I'd rather have cancer (treatable, hopefully)! I had so many problems tying to communicate the severity of my illness to my previous employers, so much so that I'd get more accomplished by hitting myself over the head with a bat for several hours at a time.

The worst for me is how they judge you and belittle you and your condition. I can tell you for a fact, that if several (in fact, MOST) of the people who mistreated me (or even the ones that didn't) had my exact condition, they wouldn't have been able to fight it like I have, and would have committed suicide long ago.

I've lost 2 jobs, no 3, due to my depression and previously, hypo/mania and lost many (now all) of my friends. Due to my road rage (that's pretty much subsided - but then again, I don't drive much anymore), I almost died several times, and/or severely injured others (or worse). Lost my license a couple of times as well and lost a LOT of money in fines and penalties and insurance adjustments. But, like I said, most to all of that has subsided, the road-rage, irritability, anger, etc, to be taken over by severely debilitating depression.

Besides the high-risk factors, I was at least able to hold down a job, albeit with great difficulty.

When people say "life is unfair", I just have to laugh and thing, you have NO idea...

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt

Posted by Enigma on August 13, 2007, at 14:11:08

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything Enigma, posted by Jedi on August 11, 2007, at 23:52:45

Thanks for the info. I'm cutting a pasting everything you guys/gals are suggesting for my next appt with my doctor.


> ...
> > I'm thinking of going back on the horrible Nardil, which was about the only drug that produced some AD effects, but not without pretty massive side effects. The SE's usually win and I quit taking the drug. This would be my 4th time trying to tolerate it.
> ...
>
> Hi Enigma,
> The side effects of Nardil can be really bad. I've been off of it four times in the past ten years trying to find something that would work without the side effects. I started Nardil again one week ago.
>
> I am assuming that you only get a partial remission from Nardil, or the side effects would not matter to you. IMHO there is nothing worse than the pain of treatment resistant depression.
>
> What have you augmented Nardil with?
> Some I have tried:
> clonazepam(still using it, currently at 2mg)
> nortriptyline
> bupropion
>
> Some I haven't tried, but are on my list:
> lithium
> lamotrigine
> modafinil
> methylphenidate
> concerta or ritilan sr(generic)
>
> Opioids have always made my depression better. Alas, the legal issues. If I could just get a MD to prescribe buprenorphine, I think I might be OK.
>
> Another option, similar to the "California Rocket Fuel" of venlafaxine combined with mirtazapine; would be duloxetine (the newer SNRI) combined with mirtazapine. Just shooting in the dark here.
> Reference:
> http://www.ijpm.net/content/pdf/327/casemg.pdf
>
> Good Luck,
> Jedi
>
>
>
>
>
>

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt

Posted by Enigma on August 13, 2007, at 14:18:07

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everything, posted by Cecilia on August 12, 2007, at 1:41:00

> You are definitely not alone, Enigma. I too am in the same situation, except haven't tried ECT, did have transcranial magnetic stimulation though, which didn't help. And doctors ARE clueless, they think AD's work better than they do because most of the patients they don't work for either go to another doctor or give up on doctors altogether. It never occurs to them to wonder, how is so and so doing, it's out of sight, out of mind. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are few, most are quite glad if their treatment resistant patients don't come back. Cecilia

I agree 100%. I've had one doctor almost flat out say that he wouldn't treat me. He tried to work around saying the exact words, probably for legal reasons. I've had other gladly suggest other doctors for me to see. There was one doctor that actually made me so mad because he almost lost me my disability and wouldn't listen to my symptoms. I almost knocked him out.

Funny, after telling him that I just had a year long battle going on/off short term then long term disability with my current (now ex) employer, doing everything in my power to KEEP my job, and THEY were the ones who booted me at the end (either take termination or long term dis. WITH benefits and pay). Wow, tough choice.. not. He actually suggested that I go back to work!!! I almost jumped out the window, taking him with me of course.

These people make over $100 an hour for what again?

I have other doctor horror stories, hell, too many....

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt

Posted by linkadge on August 13, 2007, at 22:10:27

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by Enigma on August 13, 2007, at 14:18:07

It doesn't make sence to me that a doctor would more or less tell you that s/he won't treat you.

How hard is it to take a patient in, listen to their problems and twiddle their meds around a little bit?

That being said, if I felt that I may not be able to help the patient, I would make it clear that I would treat them but could make no guarentees.

Dead ends hurt a depressed patient the most.

Even if a patient spends their entire life moving from placebo to placebo this is better than nothing.


Linkadge


 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt linkadge

Posted by Bob on August 14, 2007, at 14:22:40

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by linkadge on August 13, 2007, at 22:10:27

> It doesn't make sence to me that a doctor would more or less tell you that s/he won't treat you.
>
> How hard is it to take a patient in, listen to their problems and twiddle their meds around a little bit?
>
> That being said, if I felt that I may not be able to help the patient, I would make it clear that I would treat them but could make no guarentees.
>
> Dead ends hurt a depressed patient the most.
>
> Even if a patient spends their entire life moving from placebo to placebo this is better than nothing.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>

I've encountered multiple doctors who say right over the phone that they simply are taking no more new patients. I even called one once who had that on his answering machine. In these cases it wasn't that they didn't want my particular case, but rather that they were ultra-overloaded and probably wouldn't need another patient for the rest of their careers.

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt

Posted by linkadge on August 14, 2007, at 21:46:27

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt linkadge, posted by Bob on August 14, 2007, at 14:22:40

I see what you are saying. The only reason I commented was because there have been doctors who would not treat my mother, for example, on account of the chronicity of her problems.

Linkadge

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt linkadge

Posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2007, at 21:54:54

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by linkadge on August 14, 2007, at 21:46:27

Link I feel so bad for you and your Mom. Not her fault or yours. I know you love her dearly. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt

Posted by Enigma on August 15, 2007, at 10:29:52

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt linkadge, posted by Bob on August 14, 2007, at 14:22:40

> > It doesn't make sense to me that a doctor would more or less tell you that s/he won't treat you.
> >
> > How hard is it to take a patient in, listen to their problems and twiddle their meds around a little bit?
> >
> > That being said, if I felt that I may not be able to help the patient, I would make it clear that I would treat them but could make no guarentees.

I agree 100%. I would tell them I'm not qualified (for treatment resistant patients, or whatever is actually true), and let the patient know exactly where they stand in regards to getting treatment from me.


> >
> > Dead ends hurt a depressed patient the most.
> >
> > Even if a patient spends their entire life moving from placebo to placebo this is better than nothing.
> >

I agree. I've been fairly suicidal and open about it to doctors and still they could literally care less, and this, blows my mind. I guess there are a LOT of doctors out there who DO, do it for the money and not to help people.

> I've encountered multiple doctors who say right over the phone that they simply are taking no more new patients. I even called one once who had that on his answering machine. In these cases it wasn't that they didn't want my particular case, but rather that they were ultra-overloaded and probably wouldn't need another patient for the rest of their careers.

In my posts, I'm not talking about these doctors. I'm talking about the ones who ARE taking patients. It's actually the very first question I ask them. Once I find out they are available, it's AFTER they are unable to help me (and some give up VERY QUICKLY) that they dump me back on the street.

I don't blame any doctor (of any discipline) for having a full patient load. I'm only criticizing doctors who very easily give up on tough to treat patients.

 

Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt Enigma

Posted by Bob on August 15, 2007, at 11:30:59

In reply to Re: Still no cure for my depression - tried everyt, posted by Enigma on August 15, 2007, at 10:29:52


> I don't blame any doctor (of any discipline) for having a full patient load. I'm only criticizing doctors who very easily give up on tough to treat patients.

I think both situations are frustrating, but I can see how the latter is more aggravating.

I'm not really blaming doctors for full patient loads, but it's pretty disappointing when I search for a new doctor and the first 3 or 4 can't handle a single additional patient. Scary situation, really.


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