Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 739648

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Re: Benzo's

Posted by brimichelle on March 9, 2007, at 21:55:57

In reply to Re: Benzo's, posted by rjlockhart on March 9, 2007, at 21:40:16

> I have entered rehab to help my cause in getting custody of my kids. The last 4 UA's I had tested positive for benzo's, the last time I took anything was in early February. Just trying to figure out why they keep coming back dirty. My counselor said the last UA showed low amounts, but it is still disturbing. I take daily energy herbal supplements, i drink a lot of coffee and Mt. Dew, and hardly any water. Trying to find the correlation if any.

Thanks.


I have researched them for a while.
>
> Xanax- 2-3 hours duration
> Klonopin - 4 hours
> Ativan 6 hours
> Valium - this benzo depends, i have never taken it so i dont know how long it lasts, i heard it has a very long half life, valium stay in your system a while.
> Restoril - 2.5 hours
> Halcion - like i dont know 1-2 hours? im not correct on that, i have never taken halcion.
>
> Are you just asking about them?
>
> Well reguards,
>
>

 

Re: Benzo's

Posted by rjlockhart on March 9, 2007, at 22:13:54

In reply to Re: Benzo's, posted by brimichelle on March 9, 2007, at 21:55:57

Are you taking, pardon me, but illegally?

No, im not trying to ask in that way, im asking if you need to go to a doctor and tell him the stress your under.

Tell him you are having the hardest time in your life. Which may seem what it is right now.

Clonazepam or Klonopin they may prescribe. .5-1mg

Take care

 

Re: Benzo's brimichelle

Posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2007, at 22:15:02

In reply to Re: Benzo's, posted by brimichelle on March 9, 2007, at 21:55:57

Were you on valium? Half life is like 200 hours after established in your system. Hence once a day dosing. I would drink lots of water. Have you had your kidney function tested? Maybe a good physical is in order. You don't mention what or how much you were on. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Benzo's

Posted by brimichelle on March 9, 2007, at 22:26:05

In reply to Re: Benzo's brimichelle, posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2007, at 22:15:02

It was prescribed. I am doing pretty good not taking anything right now, I am seeing a counselor and handling things well. But I have admitted myself into outpatient rehab and i don't want it to be for nothing.

Some of the research I have done, states that benzos can be detected for up to 6 weeks.

Each UA has shown a lesser concentration then before which is good, but still a little discouraging.

 

Re: Benzo's brimichelle

Posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2007, at 22:44:48

In reply to Re: Benzo's, posted by brimichelle on March 9, 2007, at 22:26:05

Oh I don't doubt that as isn't marajuana detected for up to a month? Love Phillipa

 

Re: Benzo's brimichelle

Posted by yxibow on March 10, 2007, at 2:22:30

In reply to Benzo's, posted by brimichelle on March 9, 2007, at 21:11:33

> How long can Benzo's stay in your system? Will things such as herbal supplements and low water consumption effect how long they stay in your system? Where in your system are they stored?
>
> Thanks for any info.

Deliberately limiting water intake sounds disturbing. It causes your kidneys to go into overdrive trying to remove toxins from your system like the whole system is designed to do.


Concentrated urine is just that, toxic urine, and also can make it uncomfortable to pee.


One should drink at least 8 cups (okay, there's arguments among scientists on exactly an amount) but something like that of water or thin liquid a day, and some of that water should have electrolytes, such as a modest amount of sodium and potassium wouldn't be bad either.


Too little or too much water both are bad things, the first overdriving your kidneys, the second doing the same and possibly causing multiple organ failure.


No matter what you have to face in life, it is not prudent to play around with your excretory systems like that.

-- Jay

 

Re: Benzo's

Posted by brimichelle on March 10, 2007, at 12:01:58

In reply to Re: Benzo's brimichelle, posted by yxibow on March 10, 2007, at 2:22:30

I don't deliberately limit my water intake, i drink lots of coffee and soda. I was just looking for the correlation between the two.

Thanks

 

Re: Benzo's

Posted by notfred on March 11, 2007, at 15:37:24

In reply to Benzo's, posted by brimichelle on March 9, 2007, at 21:11:33

> How long can Benzo's stay in your system?

people are confusing 1/2 life, which does not tell you how long a drug can be tested for.

Benzos are fat soluble drugs, they can be still detected at and up to a month. Flushing has limited effectiveness in fat soluble drugs, taken to Nth degree your sample will be judged invalid if it is too dilute. Other dodges with herbals
effect pH of the sample; while this can render a test impossible it also will be detected. pH and specific gravity of the sample are measured and you can be considered having a dirty test if they are out of range.

The less fat you have on your body the quicker you test negative for a fat soluble drug. Those with excess fat may take more than a month. Other factors are how much you take/took daily & how long. Some very thin people on small doses of a benzo will always test negative. Loosing weight
might help in the long run but in the short run levels of benzos may go up as you burn fat. Given that all it takes is about a month to test negative rapid weight loss is not an effective means of reducing test levels.

For a treatment program, they will want to see your levels decrease over time. Provided levels continue to decline this indicates you took a benzo a while ago and it is slowly passing out of your body.

 

Re: Benzo's notfred

Posted by Phillipa on March 11, 2007, at 21:15:04

In reply to Re: Benzo's, posted by notfred on March 11, 2007, at 15:37:24

Notfred seriously the more fat on your body the longer you will test positive for a benzo? So it's stored in fat it's not the fat of the liver? Love Phillipa ps diet time

 

Re: Benzo's notfred

Posted by yxibow on March 11, 2007, at 23:57:14

In reply to Re: Benzo's, posted by notfred on March 11, 2007, at 15:37:24

> > How long can Benzo's stay in your system?
>
> people are confusing 1/2 life, which does not tell you how long a drug can be tested for.
>
> Benzos are fat soluble drugs, they can be still detected at and up to a month. Flushing has limited effectiveness in fat soluble drugs, taken to Nth degree your sample will be judged invalid if it is too dilute. Other dodges with herbals
> effect pH of the sample; while this can render a test impossible it also will be detected. pH and specific gravity of the sample are measured and you can be considered having a dirty test if they are out of range.


Only some benzodiazepines are lipophilic, the lipophilic benzodiazepines have a shorter onset of action than the water soluble agents. They have a shorter CNS effect and are distributed to fat tissue. Lorazepam has a longer CNS duration of action than diazepam because diazepam is lipophilic and lorazepam is not. [Emedicine]

Xanax is rather lipophilic and has a very short onset, the immediacy effect that I was mentioning before.

This isn't the complete story of benzodiazepines as they have multiple metabolites. Diazepam still has a long half life.

And then there's the general dose argument that is used which approximates nonlinear curves, so a drug is "out" of the system in 5 half lives.

---

In general, high potency benzodiazepines:

Xanax, Ativan, Halcion (short half life)
Clonazepam (long half life)

Low potency:

Librium, Tranxene, Valium, Dalmane (long half life)

(Am Fam Physician 2000; 61:2121-8.)

"Pharmacologic properties such as potency, half-life and lipophilicity, the duration of treatment and the rate of a dosage increase or decrease have a bearing on the occurrence of side effects. 1"

"1. Salzman C, for Task Force on Benzodiazepine Dependency, American Psychiatric Association. Benzodiazepine dependence, toxicity, and abuse: a task force report of the American Psychiatric Association. Washington, D.C.: American Psychiatric Association, 1990."

-----

 

Re: Benzo's

Posted by valene on March 12, 2007, at 9:41:06

In reply to Re: Benzo's notfred, posted by yxibow on March 11, 2007, at 23:57:14

> > > How long can Benzo's stay in your system?
> >
> > people are confusing 1/2 life, which does not tell you how long a drug can be tested for.
> >
> > Benzos are fat soluble drugs, they can be still detected at and up to a month. Flushing has limited effectiveness in fat soluble drugs, taken to Nth degree your sample will be judged invalid if it is too dilute. Other dodges with herbals
> > effect pH of the sample; while this can render a test impossible it also will be detected. pH and specific gravity of the sample are measured and you can be considered having a dirty test if they are out of range.
>
>
> Only some benzodiazepines are lipophilic, the lipophilic benzodiazepines have a shorter onset of action than the water soluble agents. They have a shorter CNS effect and are distributed to fat tissue. Lorazepam has a longer CNS duration of action than diazepam because diazepam is lipophilic and lorazepam is not. [Emedicine]
>
> Xanax is rather lipophilic and has a very short onset, the immediacy effect that I was mentioning before.
>
> This isn't the complete story of benzodiazepines as they have multiple metabolites. Diazepam still has a long half life.
>
> And then there's the general dose argument that is used which approximates nonlinear curves, so a drug is "out" of the system in 5 half lives.
>
> ---
>
> In general, high potency benzodiazepines:
>
> Xanax, Ativan, Halcion (short half life)
> Clonazepam (long half life)
>
> Low potency:
>
> Librium, Tranxene, Valium, Dalmane (long half life)
>
> (Am Fam Physician 2000; 61:2121-8.)
>
> "Pharmacologic properties such as potency, half-life and lipophilicity, the duration of treatment and the rate of a dosage increase or decrease have a bearing on the occurrence of side effects. 1"
>
> "1. Salzman C, for Task Force on Benzodiazepine Dependency, American Psychiatric Association. Benzodiazepine dependence, toxicity, and abuse: a task force report of the American Psychiatric Association. Washington, D.C.: American Psychiatric Association, 1990."

--------------------------------
Interesting. Salzman (mentioned above) was the psychopharmacologist I saw last year in Boston who recommended I stay on low dose xanax. He is a pro-benzo doctor.

Xanax is one benzo that has no metabolites. I was under the impression that benzos with active metabolites stayed in your system longer?

 

Re: Benzo's

Posted by notfred on March 12, 2007, at 21:46:28

In reply to Re: Benzo's notfred, posted by yxibow on March 11, 2007, at 23:57:14

> And then there's the general dose argument that is used which approximates nonlinear curves, so a drug is "out" of the system in 5 half lives.
>
> ---

My experience is that I tested positive for benzos
at 2 weeks but not at 3 weeks. I was taking Ativan
and did not want to disclose taking during a job interview. 2 weeks is past 5x 1/2 life. Lower limits of drug tesing, generally, is in ng/ml.
Since drug testing has very significant implications I advise a longer period washout period just to be safe.


 

Re: Benzo's notfred

Posted by yxibow on March 13, 2007, at 2:37:28

In reply to Re: Benzo's, posted by notfred on March 12, 2007, at 21:46:28

> > And then there's the general dose argument that is used which approximates nonlinear curves, so a drug is "out" of the system in 5 half lives.
> >
> > ---
>
> My experience is that I tested positive for benzos
> at 2 weeks but not at 3 weeks. I was taking Ativan
> and did not want to disclose taking during a job interview. 2 weeks is past 5x 1/2 life. Lower limits of drug tesing, generally, is in ng/ml.
> Since drug testing has very significant implications I advise a longer period washout period just to be safe.


If you are legally taking prescriptions for anxiety and what has become increasingly intrusive in our job world, we have people monitoring keystrokes, cameras, limited privileges on your own workstation to the point where you can't even set your clock, and finally monitoring our pee, I don't see the issue disclosed in private to an amenable manager. I know it can be a sticky wicket and I understand.

Now, if you are applying for something that requires using heavy machinery and there is a limit at the company as to what they believe are proper substances for safety, that is a different story.

But I'll bet around the average office workforce, those people you think are "normal", whatever that may mean, check again, they're probably on Paxil or they're kidding themselves. Depression, at least here in the US has become a large problem among males especially, I forget which newsmagazine had an article recently. The natural ego does not want to admit up to the fact that there are in fact problems. Not every workplace is as rigid as you think if you are a valuable contributor. Accomodations are made for all sorts of handicaps and challenges. There is even a start in some police forces for the allowing of SSRIs.

Anyhow, just an observation

-- tidings

 

Re: Benzo's

Posted by notfred on March 13, 2007, at 8:47:06

In reply to Re: Benzo's notfred, posted by yxibow on March 13, 2007, at 2:37:28

I was willing to do anything to tip the scales in my direcion as compensation was (and is, I got the job)
6 figures. Now that I have been there a year my contract is guareenteed so it takes gross missconduct to get fired, so I could care less about drug testing.

 

Re: Benzo's

Posted by sdb on March 15, 2007, at 15:07:05

In reply to Re: Benzo's, posted by notfred on March 13, 2007, at 8:47:06

There's was a study that at least 10% of medical students get addicted to a drug from more tolerated benzos up to heroine and opioids. There are chief surgeons on benzos, 0.5l beer and so on bye the way...the result seems to be what counts. It is known that one was on valium (a looong time ago, presumably to avoid tremor, officially tolerated "from the inner circle" because he was chief and not bad actually) and there is one on betablockers. The one on betablockers I knew performed very good.

Some medical doctors really should take a drug because of the sudden deaths and heart attacks recently. I ask me how something like that can happen. I would stop a job immediately if I knew that I had an attack (if you're having diabetes you even don't notice that). I am glad that my cv system is working good, exercise and diet is very important.

 

Re: Benzo's, politicians

Posted by sdb on March 15, 2007, at 15:31:13

In reply to Re: Benzo's, posted by sdb on March 15, 2007, at 15:07:05

There was another study. They controlled the toilet rooms of a parliament and it was detected plenty of controlled substances. The people making the law don't respect the law themselves. I am not interested in politics. Point final.

 

Re: Benzo's Health sdb

Posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2007, at 19:59:02

In reply to Re: Benzo's, politicians, posted by sdb on March 15, 2007, at 15:31:13

I think it's important to look at your family history to see what the deaths were from. In my small family all heart attacks and stokes. My GP said to get my anxiety under control or it would kill me. I didn't like that comment. I have excercised all my life and eat healthy. And probably no one remember Jim Fixx the runner I ran with him once he lived l0 years longer than his Dad and brother But still died doing what he loved best running in Vermont. So excercise they say prolonged his life by a good l0 years. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Benzo's Health }} phillipa

Posted by sdb on March 16, 2007, at 6:35:25

In reply to Re: Benzo's Health sdb, posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2007, at 19:59:02

> I think it's important to look at your family history to see what the deaths were from. In my small family all heart attacks and stokes. My GP said to get my anxiety under control or it would kill me. I didn't like that comment. I have excercised all my life and eat healthy. And probably no one remember Jim Fixx the runner I ran with him once he lived l0 years longer than his Dad and brother But still died doing what he loved best running in Vermont. So excercise they say prolonged his life by a good l0 years. Love Phillipa

Hmmm, I think you're right. I saw something like that observing old people. Once they give up walking and decide to stay in front of the TV it is very likely that they will never walk again.

ps. vermont must be a beautiful place. I like the calm of forests and lakes: "Hail to Vermont!"... my mothers favourite city after venice is san francisco :-)

 

Re: Benzo's Health }} phillipa sdb

Posted by Phillipa on March 16, 2007, at 20:56:29

In reply to Re: Benzo's Health }} phillipa, posted by sdb on March 16, 2007, at 6:35:25

sdb I know it would be a long trip but Vermont in the fall last week of Sept or lst week of Oct is when all the leaves change color it is beautiful like Switzerland is all the time to me. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Benzo's, politicians sdb

Posted by jealibeanz on March 17, 2007, at 4:00:55

In reply to Re: Benzo's, politicians, posted by sdb on March 15, 2007, at 15:31:13

> There was another study. They controlled the toilet rooms of a parliament and it was detected plenty of controlled substances. The people making the law don't respect the law themselves. I am not interested in politics. Point final.
>
>

Do you think they could have been prescribed? A lot of us are taking controlled drugs by prescription. Politicians have the money and the networking to go to docs who they know are likely to give out such medications.

I wouldn't point the finger at them and say they're breaking the law. Maybe they have medical conditions that require the use of controlled substances. Benzo's would be likely for the anxiety caused by the work environment. Stimulants can be prescribed for fatigue, which I'm sure anyone with 18 hours stressful workdays would suffer from. Controlled sleep aids might be used for those with insomnia due to the anxiety-producing nature of their lifestyles, or erratic schedules and travel.

Just a thought. I don't like going around calling be illegal drug abusers without knowing the full story.

If you want to find people who commonly abuse medications without prescriptions, look at college campuses.

 

Re: Benzo's, politicians }} jealibeanz

Posted by sdb on March 17, 2007, at 14:59:28

In reply to Re: Benzo's, politicians sdb, posted by jealibeanz on March 17, 2007, at 4:00:55

> > There was another study. They controlled the toilet rooms of a parliament and it was detected plenty of controlled substances. The people making the law don't respect the law themselves. I am not interested in politics. Point final.
> >
> >
>
> Do you think they could have been prescribed? A lot of us are taking controlled drugs by prescription. Politicians have the money and the networking to go to docs

Yes, I think some politicians may have the money.

In bigger companies managers have their own doctors prescribing viagra during business travels.

who they know are likely to give out such medications.
>
> I wouldn't point the finger at them and say they're breaking the law.

If politicians take a benzo they probably don't break the law. If they take heroine, cannabinoides and opiates, yes they possibly break the law if there's a law and this varies from place to place.

>Maybe they have medical conditions that require >the use of controlled substances. Benzo's would >be likely for the anxiety caused by the work >environment. Stimulants can be prescribed for >fatigue, which I'm sure anyone with 18 hours >stressful workdays would suffer from. Controlled >sleep aids might be used for those with insomnia >due to the anxiety-producing nature of their >lifestyles, or erratic schedules and travel.

These could be treatments for politicians but also an occasion to think or to change the job.

>
> Just a thought.

Thanks for your input.

I don't like going around calling be illegal drug abusers without knowing the full story.
>
> If you want to find people who commonly abuse medications without prescriptions, look at college campuses.

I think we have controlled substances but also a very controlled society nowadays.

Some people must drug them selfs because they don't have the money to pay a doc prescribing it. But it is somehow tolerated because nobody else wants to pay for suffering people. During the hippie decade there was another zeitgeist. I have never experienced this time ;-)

warm regards

sdb

 

Re: Benzo's Health }} phillipa

Posted by sdb on March 17, 2007, at 15:20:34

In reply to Re: Benzo's Health }} phillipa sdb, posted by Phillipa on March 16, 2007, at 20:56:29

> sdb I know it would be a long trip but Vermont in the fall last week of Sept or lst week of Oct is when all the leaves change color it is beautiful like Switzerland is all the time to me. Love Phillipa

Dear Phillipa

It is nice to hear that Switzerland is a beautiful place for you. These are your own memories and feel free to reactivate these memories whenever you want.

love sdb

 

Re: Benzo's Health }} phillipa

Posted by sdb on March 17, 2007, at 15:23:22

In reply to Re: Benzo's Health }} phillipa sdb, posted by Phillipa on March 16, 2007, at 20:56:29

> sdb I know it would be a long trip but Vermont in the fall last week of Sept or lst week of Oct is when all the leaves change color it is beautiful like Switzerland is all the time to me. Love Phillipa

Dear Phillipa

It is nice to hear that Switzerland is a beautiful place for you. These are your own memories and feel free to reactivate these memories whenever you want. Nobody is able to take this away from you.

love sdb

 

Re: Benzo's Health }} phillipa

Posted by sdb on March 17, 2007, at 15:47:15

In reply to Re: Benzo's Health }} phillipa sdb, posted by Phillipa on March 16, 2007, at 20:56:29

> sdb I know it would be a long trip but Vermont in the fall last week of Sept or lst week of Oct is when all the leaves change color it is beautiful like Switzerland is all the time to me. Love Phillipa

Dear Phillipa

It is nice to hear that Switzerland is a beautiful place for you. These are your own memories and feel free to reactivate these memories whenever you want. Nobody is able to take this away from you.

love sdb

 

Re: sorry transmission problem above (nm)

Posted by sdb on March 17, 2007, at 15:51:12

In reply to Re: Benzo's Health }} phillipa, posted by sdb on March 17, 2007, at 15:23:22

sorry for the three posts above it's maybe due to much traffic.


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