Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 699922

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Re: Best way of killing myself FrequentFryer

Posted by ed_uk on November 4, 2006, at 14:56:59

In reply to Re: Best way of killing myself, posted by FrequentFryer on November 3, 2006, at 19:46:38

FF,

Nortriptyline has a reputation for *not* pooping out. Best of luck. I really hope it helps you.

Ed

 

Parable of the Talents FrequentFryer

Posted by Declan on November 4, 2006, at 18:18:37

In reply to Re: Best way of killing myself, posted by FrequentFryer on November 3, 2006, at 19:46:38

Life just seems like a crazy *ss unfair game to me.


To him who has shall more be given, but to him who has not, even that which he has shall be taken away.

 

Re: Parable of the Talents Declan

Posted by Squiggles on November 4, 2006, at 18:25:33

In reply to Parable of the Talents FrequentFryer, posted by Declan on November 4, 2006, at 18:18:37


"the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."


Thomas Hobbes

 

Re: wait a second? Declan

Posted by linkadge on November 4, 2006, at 18:44:20

In reply to Parable of the Talents FrequentFryer, posted by Declan on November 4, 2006, at 18:18:37

I never understood that parable. God stealing from the poor to give to the ritch...wtf?

I think something was lost in the translation :)

Linkadge

 

Re: Best way of killing myself

Posted by FrequentFryer on November 4, 2006, at 18:51:39

In reply to Re: Best way of killing myself, posted by clint878 on November 4, 2006, at 13:25:11

Yeah Ive tried lithium before for 3 weeks but it didn't give a noticable improvement. My uncle is Bipolar,, after Ive taken the Nortriptaline for a month might try augmenting Lamictal.

> You're not alone in your views on women. Take a look at http://www.gamesareforchildren.com/.
>
> By the way, there may be a reason why none of these antidepressants are working. You could be bipolar. A clue is the social anxiety disorder. In one study, 18 patients were successfully treated for social anxiety; however, 14 developed mania as a result of the treatment. There is a high correlation between the two conditions.
>
> Think back to your past and try to remember if there were ever periods of a day or two when you had a lot more energy. For example, you might have learned that a girl had a crush on you in high school, and you had an incredible amount of energy for a day or two and were very excited, until you couldn't get up the guts to approach her. At that point, you probably slid back into depression.
>
> Another clue is that you enjoy being asleep all the time. People with extremely low energy when depressed are more likely to be bipolar.
>
> You might want to ask for a trial of Lamictal, which is a low-risk mood stabilizer with few side effects.

 

Re: Best way of killing myself

Posted by FrequentFryer on November 4, 2006, at 19:05:10

In reply to Re: Best way of killing myself FrequentFryer, posted by Phillipa on November 3, 2006, at 20:13:10

Yeah I am kind of angry,, cos life is definatly unfair,,, and if there is a god who created us, he is either not perfect or crewl.
If there is a god, he could have easily given the first two humans atleast a bit of extra Dopamine & Serotonin, then we wouldn't have people crashing into the world trade centre etc.

> FF I would give anything for two weeks of feeling better. And good health. And lack of fear. Those are far more important to me than a car, girlfriend. I think you may need to rethink your priorities and work on getting well first as a well person attracts another well person. Love Phillipa ps you sound so angry are you? I know I am I hate being anxious and depressed

 

Re: Best way of killing myself

Posted by FrequentFryer on November 4, 2006, at 19:09:53

In reply to Re: Best way of killing myself FrequentFryer, posted by ed_uk on November 4, 2006, at 14:56:59

> FF,
>
> Nortriptyline has a reputation for *not* pooping out. Best of luck. I really hope it helps you.
>
> Ed

Sweet thats good to hear. Cheers Ed.
It has less side effects for me compared to most of the newer ones.

 

Re: wait a second?

Posted by FrequentFryer on November 4, 2006, at 19:13:53

In reply to Re: wait a second? Declan, posted by linkadge on November 4, 2006, at 18:44:20

hehehe yeah tell me about it.. I think allot of stuff from the bible is misinterpretated.

> I never understood that parable. God stealing from the poor to give to the ritch...wtf?
>
> I think something was lost in the translation :)
>
> Linkadge

 

Re: Best way of killing myself FrequentFryer

Posted by Squiggles on November 4, 2006, at 19:16:16

In reply to Re: Best way of killing myself, posted by FrequentFryer on November 4, 2006, at 19:05:10

> Yeah I am kind of angry,, cos life is definatly unfair,,, and if there is a god who created us, he is either not perfect or crewl.
> If there is a god, he could have easily given the first two humans atleast a bit of extra Dopamine & Serotonin, then we wouldn't have people crashing into the world trade centre etc.
>

If I remember correctly, Adam and Eve had all the dopamine and serotonin they needed to be happy,
but they wanted something new, something more, so they went to the Pusher Man (disguised as a serpent) and got some really bad apples. And yes, the Lord got angry and did send a firestorm to the twin towers. So, you better listen to your doctor and be a patient patient with your meds. :-)

Squiggles

 

Re: Best way of killing myself

Posted by clint878 on November 4, 2006, at 21:06:50

In reply to Re: Best way of killing myself, posted by FrequentFryer on November 4, 2006, at 18:51:39

The fact that these antidepressants "poop out" all the time strongly hints at bipolarity, as well as your uncle's diagnosis.

Take a look at http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/STEPBipolarityIndex.htm, an index from Harvard used to test for a bipolar diagnosis. Just from what I hear here, you probably have about 40 points on that scale, and if you were young when you first became depressed, the score is probably higher.

Also, lithium alone is not that useful when depression is the primary symptom. Lamictal, Symbayx, or Seroquel are the best for bipolar depression, although I would never take the latter two as they are too risky.

 

Re: Best way of killing myself clint878

Posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2006, at 21:48:48

In reply to Re: Best way of killing myself, posted by clint878 on November 4, 2006, at 21:06:50

What if a med never worked and you were told you were dysphorica as a child? And then had panic disorder in your 20's which was treated well with benzos till your 50's then you became depressed with the anxiety and panic still there. Could you be bipolar. Heck to have a med work for a few weeks there is so much I would do.. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Best way of killing myself FrequentFryer

Posted by yxibow on November 4, 2006, at 21:59:13

In reply to Re: Best way of killing myself, posted by FrequentFryer on November 4, 2006, at 18:51:39

> Yeah Ive tried lithium before for 3 weeks but it didn't give a noticable improvement. My uncle is Bipolar,, after Ive taken the Nortriptaline for a month might try augmenting Lamictal.


Sorry that it didn't give you an improvement.. did you try it at a significant dose? Lithium is one of the main drugs in prevention of suicide besides certain antipsychotics.

 

Re: Best way of killing myself

Posted by clint878 on November 4, 2006, at 23:47:02

In reply to Re: Best way of killing myself clint878, posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2006, at 21:48:48

Perhaps the benzodiazepines are your problem. I quit taking them because they eventually made me depressed. The depression was worse than the anxiety they were supposed to treat.

Perhaps you might try withdrawing from them slowly? You may find that the depression improves.

 

Re: wait a second?

Posted by Declan on November 5, 2006, at 0:06:34

In reply to Re: wait a second?, posted by FrequentFryer on November 4, 2006, at 19:13:53

It's the most interesting (and profound, IMO) part of the New Testament. Think of emotions, of love...they work this way.
It sure aint fair.

 

Re: Best way of killing myself Squiggles

Posted by linkadge on November 5, 2006, at 8:53:42

In reply to Re: Best way of killing myself FrequentFryer, posted by Squiggles on November 4, 2006, at 19:16:16

"If I remember correctly, Adam and Eve had all the dopamine and serotonin they needed to be happy, but they wanted something new, something more"

Lets look at this on the flipside. If A&E had all had all the serotonin and dopamine they needed to be happy, they wouldn't have wanted something more. So as I see it, the capacity for sin, is infact a failure on the part of the creator.

Linkadge

 

Re: Best way of killing myself

Posted by linkadge on November 5, 2006, at 8:55:51

In reply to Re: Best way of killing myself, posted by clint878 on November 4, 2006, at 21:06:50

>The fact that these antidepressants "poop out" >all the time strongly hints at bipolarity, as >well as your uncle's diagnosis.

Thats just a speculation. Who says our miracle antidepressants must work forever? If everyone who experienced antidepressant poopout was bipolar, then....Its just a way for psychiatry to sweep their failures under the carpet.

Linkadge

 

Re: wait a second?

Posted by linkadge on November 5, 2006, at 9:11:13

In reply to Re: wait a second?, posted by Declan on November 5, 2006, at 0:06:34

Thats the way that psychatrists covers their *ss on all their problems.

Manic reaction to a drug........must be bipolar
Antidepressant poops out........must be bipolar
Antidepressants don't work......must be bipolar
Can sleep on an antidepressant..must be bipolar

Looking at it logically none of that is true. You don't need to have epilepsy for Wellbutrin to induce a seizure, so why would you need to have bipolar if it induces a manic reaction??????
How low would you have to go to pan off a Wellbutrin induced seizure...."I'm sorry, you have an underlying seizure disorder....Wellbutrin just unmasked it".

Antidepressants poop out, because the brain adapts....period.

Antidepressants often don't work, because they may not be hitting the exact biochemical disorder which is causing the depression.

Antidepressants cause insomnia, becuase this is a common side effect. I'm sure they induce insomnia in lab rats too.


Linkadge

 

Re: wait a second? linkadge

Posted by Squiggles on November 5, 2006, at 9:17:49

In reply to Re: wait a second?, posted by linkadge on November 5, 2006, at 9:11:13

I don't know *what* or *how* drs. think.
It's all becoming overwhelming for me
to figure out. I read a lot of books.
I know some things for sure from experience, but the recent (25 yrs or so) proliferation of meds has just confused everyone.

I'm just glad i am on an old drug -- lithium
for which the wise and kind Dr. Schou left
a guide to. God bless him; he was a true
benefactor to the mentally ill.

Squiggles

 

Re: wait a second?

Posted by linkadge on November 5, 2006, at 10:30:48

In reply to Re: wait a second? linkadge, posted by Squiggles on November 5, 2006, at 9:17:49

It is a good thing lithium has worked for you. Don't discontinue it, as it may not work the second time around.

The first time I took lithium it sort-of worked. Subsequent trials just left me way too depressed.

Linkadge

 

Re: wait a second? linkadge

Posted by Squiggles on November 5, 2006, at 11:02:57

In reply to Re: wait a second?, posted by linkadge on November 5, 2006, at 10:30:48

> It is a good thing lithium has worked for you. Don't discontinue it, as it may not work the second time around.
>
> The first time I took lithium it sort-of worked. Subsequent trials just left me way too depressed.
>
> Linkadge


I think that's an old wive's tale -- like
take all your lithium at once to protect
your kidneys.

Squiggles

 

Re: wait a second?

Posted by linkadge on November 5, 2006, at 12:13:08

In reply to Re: wait a second? linkadge, posted by Squiggles on November 5, 2006, at 11:02:57

Well, I've had about 5 or 6 psychiatrists tell me the same thing. They're not sure why it happens. Just like AD's sometimes don't work the second time around.

Linkadge

 

Re: wait a second?

Posted by clint878 on November 5, 2006, at 12:31:58

In reply to Re: wait a second?, posted by linkadge on November 5, 2006, at 9:11:13

Well, there is a difference between a seizure and mania caused by an antidepressant. Generally, one isolated seizure rarely causes any long-term issues - the patient may be disoriented for a time, but fully recovers within a day or two. A large number of seizures is another story.

Antidepressant-induced mania, however, is not something that just goes away after you stop taking the pills. Manic episodes, even those induced by antidepressants, can last for weeks or months. The patient might commit suicide as a result.

More importantly, though, it's been shown that very few people EVER recover fully from a manic episode, suffering permanent cognitive dysfunction as a result. Some doctors like to say "well, you just had a little too much serotonin - it was just a freak thing," and in my opinion, they are vastly understating the severity of this phenomenon.

As to poop-out and all the other things you brought up, those just hint at bipolarity and could certainly be caused by other things. But with antidepressant-induced mania, if you weren't bipolar before, you are NOW.

 

Re: wait a second? linkadge

Posted by Squiggles on November 5, 2006, at 12:44:18

In reply to Re: wait a second?, posted by linkadge on November 5, 2006, at 12:13:08

> Well, I've had about 5 or 6 psychiatrists tell me the same thing. They're not sure why it happens. Just like AD's sometimes don't work the second time around.
>
> Linkadge

It has not been my experience, thank God,
though i confess that stopping lithium brings
you to dangerous head states (not as dangerous
as clonazepam).

The psychiatrists who have told you this,
must have observational reasons? And not just
something they have read? Many variables may
play into this -- how long the person is left
in a psychotic non-lithium state, how much lithium and at what rate the patient is re-loaded;
how long and with what adjunct (like a benzo)
to calm the possible mania? Etc.

Squiggles

 

Re: wait a second?

Posted by linkadge on November 5, 2006, at 13:49:25

In reply to Re: wait a second?, posted by clint878 on November 5, 2006, at 12:31:58

>Antidepressant-induced mania, however, is not >something that just goes away after you stop >taking the pills.

I don't think that is something that has been thoroughly tested. The protocols insist that the patient be placed on mood stabilizers right away, before seeing what coming off the drug might do. Thats not fair. Antidepressants can induce mania in animal models. My mother had a manic episode on a TCA. She has since been on lithium. I would argue that the mania would have subsided if the drugs had been removed. If you take street drugs like meth, and have a manic episode, that doesn't mean you have bipolar. They will not put you on lithium for life. But somehow antidepressants are different? They're still messing with your neurotransmitters. The science isn't exact.

>Manic episodes, even those induced by >antidepressants, can last for weeks or months. >The patient might commit suicide as a result.

Not always though. A lot of people get stuck on drugs they probably don't need.

>More importantly, though, it's been shown that >very few people EVER recover fully from a manic >episode, suffering permanent cognitive >dysfunction as a result.

Its hard to say too, because all the drugs that are used in bipolar can cause major cognitive impairment. When I came off lithium, my grades improved 2 letter grades. They have stayed that way. Again, this could be a way that doctors pawn off the cognitive side effects of mood stabilizers an AP's. Well, bipolar causes cognitive impairment. Whatever cognitive impairment is caused by bipolar, the drugs make it 10X worse.

>As to poop-out and all the other things you >brought up, those just hint at bipolarity and >could certainly be caused by other things. But >with antidepressant-induced mania, if you >weren't bipolar before, you are NOW.

Hey, I can agree with that. What I was implying with the drug induced mania is this. We think there is a link between epileptic like brain activity, and some forms of mania. That is why anticonvulsants work in bipolar. So, if a drug can induce seizure like activity in normal people, is it too much of a stretch to suggest that they induce mania like acitivity in normal people?

Psychiatrists will never admit that their drugs can induce mania in normal people since then it is their fault. Instead, they simply pawn it off as underlying bipolar. Then it becomes "your" fault.


Linkadge

 

Re: wait a second?

Posted by linkadge on November 5, 2006, at 13:53:47

In reply to Re: wait a second? linkadge, posted by Squiggles on November 5, 2006, at 12:44:18

I have heard it directly from psychiatrists, as well as many places on the internet. You can ask SLS for instance, he's probably heard of it. Something to do with worsening if kindling perhaps ?

If you have a subscription to psychiatry online.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/152/12/1810.pdf


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