Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 682037

Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Klonopin needs time to full potential?

Posted by MrBrice on September 1, 2006, at 12:20:06

hi,

since yesterday i started taking klonopin for my anxiety.
I feel it helps a little but it's not yet what i expected it to be.

it needs time before it reaches full potential? I need to adjust to it first?

thanks,
Brice

 

Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?

Posted by notfred on September 1, 2006, at 22:28:20

In reply to Klonopin needs time to full potential?, posted by MrBrice on September 1, 2006, at 12:20:06

The primary metabolite of Klonopin has a half life of 18 to 50 hours. With regular dosing it takes a few days for levels to reach a steady state. Follow your doc's orders, but I would not increase till I was on Klon for 3 days.

With long acting meds, if you take too much you are stuck with it for a day or so. Low and slow is the key. Small increases with several days between.

 

Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?

Posted by Phillipa on September 1, 2006, at 22:42:16

In reply to Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?, posted by notfred on September 1, 2006, at 22:28:20

Personally I don't like klonopin I take valium instead and I have xanax if needed. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?phillipa

Posted by MrBrice on September 2, 2006, at 6:52:30

In reply to Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?, posted by Phillipa on September 1, 2006, at 22:42:16

what's the difference then between valium and klonopin phillipa?

thanks,
Brice

 

Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?phillipa

Posted by bassman on September 2, 2006, at 10:24:54

In reply to Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?phillipa, posted by MrBrice on September 2, 2006, at 6:52:30

I like the advice of waiting about three days before increasing the dose or you'll end up like I did when I started Klonopin, fast asleep on the back porch with a neighbor's cat sleeping in your lap. :>}

I find Klonopin depressing above about 0.5 mg (maybe lower) and 30 mg Valium doesn't do anything at all. Klonopin seems to depress a lot of people, so maybe something to watch for...

 

Re: 0.5 mg/day or every 12 hours? bassman

Posted by janeB on September 2, 2006, at 11:29:33

In reply to Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?phillipa, posted by bassman on September 2, 2006, at 10:24:54


> I find Klonopin depressing above about 0.5 mg (maybe lower) and 30 mg Valium doesn't do anything at all. Klonopin seems to depress a lot of people, so maybe something to watch for...

Is that 0.5/day or divided throughout the day?
Thanks, Jane

 

Re: 0.5 mg/day or every 12 hours?

Posted by bassman on September 2, 2006, at 11:34:31

In reply to Re: 0.5 mg/day or every 12 hours? bassman, posted by janeB on September 2, 2006, at 11:29:33

0.5 mg/day. I take 0.25 mg twice a day-I found Klonopin quite depressing at 0.5 mg/twice a day and INCREDIBLY depressing at 0.5 mg/three times a day (what the pdoc suggested as a starting point).

 

Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential? notfred

Posted by yxibow on September 2, 2006, at 14:08:14

In reply to Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?, posted by notfred on September 1, 2006, at 22:28:20

> The primary metabolite of Klonopin has a half life of 18 to 50 hours. With regular dosing it takes a few days for levels to reach a steady state. Follow your doc's orders, but I would not increase till I was on Klon for 3 days.
>
> With long acting meds, if you take too much you are stuck with it for a day or so. Low and slow is the key. Small increases with several days between.


In the human body as opposed to lab measurements of tertiary metabolites (like Restoril from Valium), Klonopin is closer to 16 hours, maybe a bit more, but not necessarily a full day and is dosed twice a day usually. There are subtle differences between the long acting (or short for that matter) benzodiazepines that one patient may find more useful than another. As Phillipa noted, she preferred Valium (and adjunctively Xanax), which is actually exactly what I do. There is some point to Valium though in that it has a 24+ hour potential and thus has less potential for habituation. Doesn't mean it won't occur or that adjustments may need to made along the way (I'm slowly trying to reduce personally).


I'd agree that slow adjustment to long acting benzodiazepines is a rational idea, since one doesn't know how much is the MED (minimum effective dose) until it is discovered and an excess isn't of particular use in the long term.

Short term benzodiazepines though like Xanax should not really be used long term, although there was the patent extender (unusual for benzodiazepines) Xanax XR which made a once a day formulation, mainly for those already on a Xanax regime. I wouldn't start out on Xanax XR -- Xanax differs a bit because it has more "instant gratification", which is good in bad situations, but can lead to being used to that immediacy and then that quelling feeling becomes lost.


-- tidings

Jay

 

Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?

Posted by MrBrice on September 2, 2006, at 14:46:53

In reply to Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential? notfred, posted by yxibow on September 2, 2006, at 14:08:14

i tried xanax before, worked well but too short.

i'm now two days on klonopin and i'm not really liking it that much. But i'm thinking indeed it might need some time for it to work like it should.
I'm taking 1mg at night right now, my doc said it would work 24h so there wouldn't be a need to 'refill'.

If it doestn't work in 1 week, i'll ask for valium as suggested here.

grtzzz,
Brice

 

Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?

Posted by bassman on September 2, 2006, at 16:36:59

In reply to Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?, posted by MrBrice on September 2, 2006, at 14:46:53

You might want to check out remedyfind.com, if you haven't already, for ideas. I notice Valium is making a comeback.

 

Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential? bassman

Posted by Phillipa on September 2, 2006, at 20:12:42

In reply to Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential?, posted by bassman on September 2, 2006, at 16:36:59

Yes a poster here saw a prestegious doc in Boston who said that the benzos were making a comeback. Wonder if its because the atypicals are causing diabetes or things we are not privy to yet. Love Phillipa

 

Re: I'd double my dose before switching off it

Posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on September 3, 2006, at 3:52:09

In reply to Re: Klonopin needs time to full potential? bassman, posted by Phillipa on September 2, 2006, at 20:12:42

I wouldn't think Klonopin would take more than a day for you to really feel it.

I would double my dose, taking no more than 4-5mg during one specific day to see if it has any effect (I've seen ppl prescribed up to 9mg per day). I dont recommend that for long term, just one day to see if it works. If you dont feel anything then, then switch.

Also, ppl on here could better help you if you explain your exact situation. I know when I have anxiety at its peak, no med can really calm me down. Yet eventually my body wears down, and when that happens, the meds do just fine. Good luck.

 

Re: I'd double my dose before switching off it

Posted by MrBrice on September 3, 2006, at 5:19:19

In reply to Re: I'd double my dose before switching off it, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on September 3, 2006, at 3:52:09

Well in fact yesterday i doubled my dose to 2 mg's at night and i did in fact feel way better then before. I think it's kicked in.

the downside of the story is that, now that i woke up, i feel a little down...i heard that many people have this on klonopin.
Is it just because i need to raise the dose even more or is it really one of klonopin's effects.
And in case of the latter, is this not the case with valium?

thanks and grtz,
Brice

 

You've got to find out for yourself

Posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on September 3, 2006, at 6:53:08

In reply to Re: I'd double my dose before switching off it, posted by MrBrice on September 3, 2006, at 5:19:19

I've taken Klonopin for 9 years, and not one single day "felt a little down" due to the med. I have felt down and depressed for sure, but it wasn't from a direct connection to the Klonopin.

You know, I think it's good to hear the experiences of mine and others. HOWEVER, every med affects everyone differently. You've got to find out what works for yourself.

Praying for you.

 

Re: I'd double my dose before switching off it

Posted by bassman on September 3, 2006, at 7:25:09

In reply to Re: I'd double my dose before switching off it, posted by MrBrice on September 3, 2006, at 5:19:19

My guess is that if you increase the dose, you'll feel even more "down". Klonopin just causes depression in some people-and some people can take oodles of it and it doesn't. So much for the "a benzo is a benzo" theory.

My might try taking 1 mg at a time instead of 2 mg-that might help. Even if you separate the doses by a few hours...dosing schedule of any drug can make a big difference.

 

Re: I'd double my dose before switching off it

Posted by Phillipa on September 3, 2006, at 19:36:02

In reply to Re: I'd double my dose before switching off it, posted by bassman on September 3, 2006, at 7:25:09

Don't know why but valium doesn't depress me but klonopin does. I was suicidal once. The pdoc immediately stopped it and switched me back to xanax as that's what I was on at the time. Love Phillipa

 

eureka

Posted by MrBrice on September 4, 2006, at 8:29:29

In reply to Re: I'd double my dose before switching off it, posted by Phillipa on September 3, 2006, at 19:36:02

hi,

i now dvide my dose into 0.5 in the morning and 0.5 in the evening and it works wonder well.
I feel great!

grtz

 

Re: eureka

Posted by bassman on September 4, 2006, at 8:39:49

In reply to eureka, posted by MrBrice on September 4, 2006, at 8:29:29

YEAH!!!! Nothing like a med success story! Glad you're feeling good!

 

Re: eureka

Posted by laima on September 5, 2006, at 21:46:52

In reply to Re: eureka, posted by bassman on September 4, 2006, at 8:39:49


I'd watch out with messing around like doubleing klonopin dose- I did something like that recently after freaking out after an assault, and it's sort of destabilzed me wildly and taken some time, like a week, to approach calming back down to where I was before-or what would be reasonable after such an event. Of course, maybe I have other factors involved in this case-like being genuinely terrified of the assaulter.

 

I didn't mean to address that post to eureka- laima

Posted by laima on September 5, 2006, at 21:48:43

In reply to Re: eureka, posted by laima on September 5, 2006, at 21:46:52


just forgot to change subject. sorry.

 

Re: You've got to find out for yourself

Posted by Greif on September 6, 2006, at 21:48:02

In reply to You've got to find out for yourself, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on September 3, 2006, at 6:53:08

Hang in there. Docs hesitate to prescribe valium due to the stigma from over prescribing/addiction and rehab centers writing on the evils of it. I prefer Clonzapam with ssri over valium. Each person is different. I have always had a difficult time getting any doctor to give valium. A bit unfortunate. Does not cause depression but has higher addiction potential (overuse). I would never take extra K because it provides no momentary boost or peace that some benzos do.

Good luck

 

Re: You've got to find out for yourself Greif

Posted by yxibow on September 7, 2006, at 2:33:47

In reply to Re: You've got to find out for yourself, posted by Greif on September 6, 2006, at 21:48:02

> Hang in there. Docs hesitate to prescribe valium due to the stigma from over prescribing/addiction and rehab centers writing on the evils of it. I prefer Clonzapam with ssri over valium. Each person is different. I have always had a difficult time getting any doctor to give valium. A bit unfortunate. Does not cause depression but has higher addiction potential (overuse). I would never take extra K because it provides no momentary boost or peace that some benzos do.
>
> Good luck

Valium has no higher "addiction" potential than Klonopin. In fact it has a smaller potential because its true main metabolic half life far exceeds 24 hours for most people as opposed to Klonopin which can be as little as 16 hours, definately not as long as Valium.

Some psychiatrists still have the dusty old idea that Valium is "mothers little helper", when in fact its long half life reduces habituation -- which is what happens with benzodiazepines in therapy, not "addiction"

The only real issue with Valium is that in some places it has a higher "street value" (diversion for non medical purposes and taken at medically unapproved dosages, which is addiction and not habituation) than Klonopin. Otherwise the ratio of partial milligram Klonopin for many milligrams Valium have no difference except for apparent depression among some patients for Klonopin (I've never felt this, but its possible from the continuing case reports here I've seen.)


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