Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 663324

Shown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

RESERPINE WITHDRAWAL EUPHORIA

Posted by hgi698 on July 1, 2006, at 18:11:44

Ok i was thinking about taking reserpine for about 4 weeks. Reserpine depletes dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin temporarily. So in response my brain should upregulate those receptors. Then I plan on taking a dopaminergic drug when i am withdrawing from the resperine (like adderall). Will this cause a rapid improvement in depression? Maybe it won't last, but it seems like a surefire way feel good. All you have to do is feel crappy for the four weeks on resperine. Any thoughts?

 

Re: RESERPINE WITHDRAWAL EUPHORIA hgi698

Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2006, at 20:43:07

In reply to RESERPINE WITHDRAWAL EUPHORIA, posted by hgi698 on July 1, 2006, at 18:11:44

Theoretically sounds like it might work but why something that wouldn't last or are looking for something like jump start? Love Phillipa

 

Re: RESERPINE WITHDRAWAL EUPHORIA

Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 2:18:08

In reply to Re: RESERPINE WITHDRAWAL EUPHORIA hgi698, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2006, at 20:43:07

I don't think it would work at all. Reserpine depletes stores of the monoamines. Therefore when you subsequently take a stimulant there would be less neurotransmitter to be released in response to the stimulant..

I'm not sure why you would approach it this way. If you want something to produce a temporary improvement in mood, there are easier ways.

The idea is that the brain continually tries to regulate itself to produce an even mood. Sure, if you want to suffer, you could take a whole lot of neuroleptics then withdrawl from them, but why. The area under the mood/time graph would probably be no different.

I'd personally recomend taking omega-3. These fatty acids can work to restore the integrity and responsivness of the serotonin/dopamine receptors. THey won't give you a high, but they can help keep the mood in a good place.

Linkadge

 

Re: RESERPINE WITHDRAWAL EUPHORIA

Posted by SLS on July 2, 2006, at 11:02:43

In reply to Re: RESERPINE WITHDRAWAL EUPHORIA, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 2:18:08

Reserpine was once used as an experimental therapy in the 1970's to be given as a pre-treatment before a course of a TCA. I don't know what the theory was behind this practice. Perhaps an upregulation of postsynaptic receptors? Maybe some sort of rebound increase in the uptake of neurotransmitter into synaptic vesicles?


- Scott

 

RESERPINE

Posted by hgi698 on July 2, 2006, at 13:32:54

In reply to Re: RESERPINE WITHDRAWAL EUPHORIA, posted by SLS on July 2, 2006, at 11:02:43

Well i previously mentioned that i became hypomanic upon withdrawal of an ssri. (dopamine receptor upregulation due to ssri induced dopamine depletion?). So i know it's possible to do. I am assuming that reserpine would be a more reliable way of depleting dopamine and causing dopamine receptor upregulation. The wheels are in motion, and i am probably going to try it in the next couple weeks. Just one more question, reserpine induced depletion is temporary right? When the drug leaves your system you should go back to normal??

 

Re: RESERPINE

Posted by SLS on July 2, 2006, at 14:26:21

In reply to RESERPINE, posted by hgi698 on July 2, 2006, at 13:32:54

> Well i previously mentioned that i became hypomanic upon withdrawal of an ssri. (dopamine receptor upregulation due to ssri induced dopamine depletion?). So i know it's possible to do. I am assuming that reserpine would be a more reliable way of depleting dopamine and causing dopamine receptor upregulation. The wheels are in motion, and i am probably going to try it in the next couple weeks. Just one more question, reserpine induced depletion is temporary right? When the drug leaves your system you should go back to normal??

Reserpine acts to irreversibly damage presynaptic storage vesicles by binding to the transporter sites. Recovery of neurotransmission depends on the synthesis and translocation of new vesicles. There is thus some lag time between the discontinuation of the drug and the normalization of neurological function. I believe this occurs between 48-72 hours.


- Scott

 

Re: RESERPINE

Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 16:20:46

In reply to Re: RESERPINE, posted by SLS on July 2, 2006, at 14:26:21

SSRI's don't necessarily depleat dopamine. They put the breaks on dopamine release. Dopamine might actually acumulate, but just not get released. When you stopped the SSRI, there was less inhibition on the dopamine release and hence more dopamine release.


Taking reserpine would be different as it would actually depleat brain dopamine content. Sure the postsynaptic receptors might upregulate but with less acutal dopamine to be released, I'd doubt it would lead to any euphoria.

Linkadge

 

RESERPINE

Posted by hgi698 on July 2, 2006, at 16:30:21

In reply to Re: RESERPINE, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 16:20:46

Well i should have used the term "reduced" dopamine instead of "deplete".
It takes a while for receptors to upregulate or downregulate. In my experience it takes about 2 weeks for this to occur. So when i stop the reserpine, the receptors will be upregulated for a while. After i have withdrawn from the reserpine, the dopamine should rebound to levels before treatment (in 48-72 hours). While the receptors are still upregulated. Taking adderall will cause an even greater increase in dopaminergic activity (if it is needed at all). I mean when i withdrew from the ssri I felt really good for a long time (almost 3 weeks). So i think it is worth a shot.

 

Re: RESERPINE

Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 18:36:21

In reply to RESERPINE, posted by hgi698 on July 2, 2006, at 16:30:21

Why don't you ask your doctor for a trial of selegiline? Have you tried St. John's Wort?

SJW inhibits the uptake of serotonin/norepinehprine and dopamine to a similar extent.

Linkadge

 

Re: RESERPINE

Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 18:37:50

In reply to Re: RESERPINE, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 18:36:21

You could also try fish oil and/or inositol. Both work to increase the sensitivity of dopamine receptors.

Linkadge

 

Re: RESERPINE

Posted by hgi698 on July 2, 2006, at 18:43:16

In reply to Re: RESERPINE, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 18:37:50

Yeah, i've pretty much tried all of that already (and much more). Thanks though Linkadge.

 

Re: RESERPINE

Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 20:29:05

In reply to Re: RESERPINE, posted by hgi698 on July 2, 2006, at 18:43:16

Have you tried a TCA? I read one study that showed TCA's actually increased the levels of the protein which coded for the d2 receptor.

Linkadge

 

Re: RESERPINE

Posted by sdb on July 4, 2006, at 15:33:03

In reply to Re: RESERPINE, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2006, at 16:20:46

take care of taking reserpine and combining with other drugs

 

Re: RESERPINE

Posted by med_empowered on July 4, 2006, at 22:17:03

In reply to Re: RESERPINE, posted by sdb on July 4, 2006, at 15:33:03

I wouldnt do it. However...the whole "reserpine causes depression" deal is apparently kind of incorrect. At appropriate dosages and in the right patients, reserpine can actually help with depression, probably by inducing a state of calm.

 

Re: RESERPINE

Posted by linkadge on July 5, 2006, at 17:07:08

In reply to Re: RESERPINE, posted by med_empowered on July 4, 2006, at 22:17:03

Is reserpine even used in animal models of depression anymore ?

Linkadge

 

Re: RESERPINE

Posted by hgi698 on July 5, 2006, at 21:53:54

In reply to Re: RESERPINE, posted by linkadge on July 5, 2006, at 17:07:08

I'm not too sure about the depression models. Though reserpine does seem to reliably reduce dopamine/serotonin/norepinephrine and upregulate D1, D2, 5-HT and Adrenergic receptors. (At least in rats and mice)

 

Re: RESERPINE WITHDRAWAL EUPHORIA

Posted by fuchsia on July 6, 2006, at 7:36:24

In reply to RESERPINE WITHDRAWAL EUPHORIA, posted by hgi698 on July 1, 2006, at 18:11:44

> Ok i was thinking about taking reserpine for about 4 weeks. Reserpine depletes dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin temporarily. So in response my brain should upregulate those receptors. Then I plan on taking a dopaminergic drug when i am withdrawing from the resperine (like adderall). Will this cause a rapid improvement in depression? Maybe it won't last, but it seems like a surefire way feel good. All you have to do is feel crappy for the four weeks on resperine. Any thoughts?

I would be concerned that pinging the receptors back and forward like that could put you at risk of developing bipolar disorder. Not that I know that much about it; it's just my gut reaction.

 

Re: RESERPINE WITHDRAWAL EUPHORIA

Posted by linkadge on July 6, 2006, at 18:23:55

In reply to Re: RESERPINE WITHDRAWAL EUPHORIA, posted by fuchsia on July 6, 2006, at 7:36:24

I just don't see the point. Sure you may feel good later, but you may have to suffer through the reserpine. And after they upregulate, it won't take long after the med has been withdrawn for them do downregulate back to the appropriate level. The idea is that they will constantly regulate themselves so that the available neurotransmitter provides even second messenger activity.

Even if you get a short lived euphoria, whats the point? You may have to suffer through taking the resperpine.

Linkadge

 

Found the study on reserpine pre-treatment

Posted by hgi698 on July 9, 2006, at 10:23:05

In reply to Re: RESERPINE, posted by linkadge on July 5, 2006, at 17:07:08

Reserpine Pretreatment and Augmentation

The use of reserpine in TRD has been reviewed by Zohar et al. (119). This strategy has been hypothesized to induce changes in postsynaptic receptor sensitivity in response to a reserpine-induced depletion of brain monoamines. It should also be recalled that reserpine has modest antipsychotic potency, providing a second possible mechanism of action. Several poorly controlled early studies reported outcomes on the order of 70% to 90% in patients treated with repeated intramuscular injections of 5 to 10 mg of reserpine (see ref. 119). Given such dramatic findings, it is curious that reserpine strategies have received so little subsequent attention. Perhaps this is because two recent controlled clinical trials have failed to support the value of this approach for TRD patients (3, 83).


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