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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on October 9, 2004, at 22:20:51
Anyone here had ECT ??
- memory problems ??
Linkadge
Posted by alesta on October 10, 2004, at 9:08:56
In reply to Anyone here had ECT, posted by linkadge on October 9, 2004, at 22:20:51
hi, linkadge,
i would only consider this as a last resort..yes, people experience memory problems and potential brain damage from this procedure. it is really not worth it for the temporary relief that you receive..and you haven't nearly tried everything yet medwise! btw, i forgot to mention lamictal as another good option if you go the med route..it would be one of my first choices to try if i was going to take a med for depression.take care,
amy :)
Posted by Sebastian on October 10, 2004, at 10:59:27
In reply to Anyone here had ECT, posted by linkadge on October 9, 2004, at 22:20:51
I had a lot of ECTs about 7 years ago. They knocked out my memory prety good for the few years after it. I've got most memory back now. Still somethings I don't remember.
Posted by linkadge on October 10, 2004, at 11:48:03
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT, posted by Sebastian on October 10, 2004, at 10:59:27
PLease elaborate. I want to know what kind of feeling ECT is. Does't it really renew that *normal* feeling. I havn't felt *normal* in such a long time.
Did it abolish suicidal tendancies ?
Do you think it was worth it?
Linkadge
Posted by Sebastian on October 10, 2004, at 13:34:01
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT, posted by linkadge on October 10, 2004, at 11:48:03
Its a very quick fix, and powerful. Only works if you maintain meds afterwards. I didn't and relapsed, had to do it again. When I finaly stuck with the meds afterwards I didn't have anymore problems. So yes its worth it. You will feel normal after.
Posted by utopizen on October 10, 2004, at 15:08:42
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT, posted by Sebastian on October 10, 2004, at 13:34:01
> Its a very quick fix, and powerful. Only works if you maintain meds afterwards. I didn't and relapsed, had to do it again. When I finaly stuck with the meds afterwards I didn't have anymore problems. So yes its worth it. You will feel normal after.
>linkadge,
have you tried adding lithium to your zoloft? And why is your Zoloft dose so low? Most don't begin to notice relief until 200mg!!
Posted by alexandra_k on October 10, 2004, at 16:35:32
In reply to Anyone here had ECT, posted by linkadge on October 9, 2004, at 22:20:51
> Anyone here had ECT ??
>
> - memory problems ??
>
>
>
> LinkadgeI had a course of 10 bilateral in 1999. Supposed to have 12 but I withdrew my consent after 10 and it is against the law to administer ect without the clients consent in NZ. My memory is groggy for the few months prior and a few months after. Hard to tell how much of the memory fog is due to ect, how much is due to the meds (high doses of chlorprom. that turned me into a vegetable) and how much is due to good old repression though.
I didn't find that it assisted me. I was upset to learn that they gave me bilateral. Very upset to learn that they would risk my language ability. Still they were trying to keep me alive when I was extremely suicidal.
ECT has been known to help some people when nothing else would. When you are in a bad place, most anything is worth a try. Good luck.
Posted by t-rotten on October 11, 2004, at 4:16:34
In reply to Anyone here had ECT, posted by linkadge on October 9, 2004, at 22:20:51
> Anyone here had ECT ??
>
> - memory problems ??
>
>
>
> LinkadgeI've read that thyroid hormones(T3 more used) can help with the memory issues pretty well. Do a search on it. Piracetam can help too(but nothing compared with T3).
Posted by iris2 on October 11, 2004, at 11:32:22
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT, posted by alexandra_k on October 10, 2004, at 16:35:32
> I didn't find that it assisted me. I was upset to learn that they gave me bilateral. Very upset to learn that they would risk my language ability. Still they were trying to keep me alive when I was extremely suicidal.
I had 6 bilateral treatments and of course do not remember when but at least 10 or 15 years ago. I never heard of it affecting language ability. I have trouble remembering words all the time when I want to say or type something. I am constantly using a thesaurus to try and get the right word because of my memory or just stuck kind of in a sentence or thought. Is this the type of thing you are talking about? I had never heard of it having an effect on language.irene
Posted by linkadge on October 11, 2004, at 17:49:17
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT » alexandra_k, posted by iris2 on October 11, 2004, at 11:32:22
Did it help your depression iris2 ???
Posted by alexandra_k on October 11, 2004, at 19:36:34
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT » alexandra_k, posted by iris2 on October 11, 2004, at 11:32:22
"Short-term memory loss has always been a concern to patients who receive ECT, but several studies conclude that patients who received unilateral ECT performed better on attention/memory tests than those who received bilateral ECT. However, there is a question as to whether unilateral is as effective. Experts agree that changes in memory function do occur & persist for a few days following treatment, but that patients return to normal within a month. A 1985 NIMH Consensus Conference concluded that while some memory loss is frequent after ECT, it is estimated that one-half of 1 percent of ECT patients suffer severe loss. Memory problems usually clear within 7 months of treatment, although there may be a persistent memory deficit for the period immediately surrounding the treatment."
http://www.medhelp.org/lib/ect.htm
"The memory loss associated with bilateral and nondominant unilateral ECT was assessed with verbal memory tests known to be sensitive to left temporal lobe dysfunction. Bilateral ECT markedly impaired delayed retention of verbal and nonverbal material. Right unilateral ECT impaired delayed retention of nonverbal material without measurably affecting retention of verbal material. Nonverbal memory was affected less by right unilateral ECT than by bilateral ECT. These findings, taken together with a consideration of the clinical efficacy of the two types of treatment, make what appears to be a conclusive case for unilateral over bilateral ECT."
http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Depression/ect/effects/squire/squire.asp
I am not sure on any more with respect to verbal ability. The language production and comprehension areas are (typically) in the left hemisphere, though, so that is why it is wise to leave that side alone. I am not sure with respect to particular language deficits that people may have. Sorry
Posted by iris2 on October 11, 2004, at 19:57:22
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT, posted by linkadge on October 11, 2004, at 17:49:17
This is irene. If the question was for me about if it helped my depression. NO. I had ECT twice. One time 6 bilateral the other several years later 12 lateral with no effect on my depression.
irene
Posted by utopizen on October 12, 2004, at 8:46:45
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT » linkadge, posted by iris2 on October 11, 2004, at 19:57:22
> This is irene. If the question was for me about if it helped my depression. NO. I had ECT twice. One time 6 bilateral the other several years later 12 lateral with no effect on my depression.
>
> ireneECT typically requires several treatments, as much as a dozen or more, just to notice a difference. Also, keep in mind this is an isolated case, and the FDA has approved its use because it is proven effective in a substantial portion of patients who haven't responded to any other treatment.
That said, trying 200mg of Zoloft is something they'd try before even discussing ECT with you. Parnate is more likely to be tried, IMHO, before ECT. It's used in cases where people are so depressed they don't respond to forced eating (think "Requiem for a Dream) or have immediate indications of suicidal ideation that hospital confinement isn't enough to control.
Posted by iris2 on October 12, 2004, at 20:11:12
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT, posted by utopizen on October 12, 2004, at 8:46:45
Please be awaare that I wsa merely responding to a question about my personal experience with ECT. I ws not trying to make a statement about it. If I were I would have been saying how I have seen it so helpful to most of the people I have seen get it. Although I did not have the chance to follow up with them months later. I did not meen to be seaying anything about it being good or bad. And yes I do take things way too personally:)
irene
Posted by alexandra_k on October 12, 2004, at 20:19:17
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT » utopizen, posted by iris2 on October 12, 2004, at 20:11:12
I also did not intend to generalise from my experience to a general reccomendation regarding the effectiveness of ECT. I am wary of it, but I understand why it is considered as a last resort strategy, and perhaps more than that if a person has had some success with previous ECT's.
Posted by utopizen on October 12, 2004, at 22:46:25
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT » utopizen, posted by iris2 on October 12, 2004, at 20:11:12
> Please be awaare that I wsa merely responding to a question about my personal experience with ECT. I ws not trying to make a statement about it. If I were I would have been saying how I have seen it so helpful to most of the people I have seen get it. Although I did not have the chance to follow up with them months later. I did not meen to be seaying anything about it being good or bad. And yes I do take things way too personally:)
>
> ireneIrene, sorry you felt I was judging your comments. I was only concerned that Linkadge would view your insight as if it was some sort of broader example of ECT's failure. I've luckily never had to consider it, but the medical literature does point to it saving lives, and I have to believe that.
I hope you find relief somehow, for whatever you're suffering from. My new drug idea is Cymbalta myself, and I see my doc Thursday. I made sure to leave a message with him mentioning my interest in it, so he'll be prepared to discuss it at our session this week.
We all suffer from these treatments, some more than others. I wish you didn't have to explore ECT as an option, but I'm glad to see you're still around with us regardless. You must have gone through a lot in this world, and for that I am sorry.
Posted by t-rotten on October 13, 2004, at 3:03:30
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT » linkadge, posted by iris2 on October 11, 2004, at 19:57:22
> This is irene. If the question was for me about if it helped my depression. NO. I had ECT twice. One time 6 bilateral the other several years later 12 lateral with no effect on my depression.
>
> ireneHi. When you made the ECTs, was you taking some drug together? Or you wasnt taking nothing? or you stopped the medication abruptlly and made the ECTs?
I ask it cause I already made ECT but the doc took out all the meds I was taking so maybe it just worked on the whithrawal, cause after the last ECT I felt just mild effects.
Posted by iris2 on October 13, 2004, at 9:37:46
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT, posted by t-rotten on October 13, 2004, at 3:03:30
As I recall both times I was taken off of all my medication. The second time after the ECT the pdoc put me back the antidepressant I was taking.
I do know from other people that it works best when you go back on or stay on antidepressants. I have read that even when you get a good result from the ECT that taking medication after can make the depression stay away. That if you just have ECT the antidepressant effect can where off after a while if you do not continue with antidepressants. This is only what I have read from others several times, it is not any scientific or self-knowledge.
In my particular case it would not have made a difference as the ECT did not have any affect. Nor was the antidepresseant I was taking at the time.
irene
Posted by blnch on October 14, 2004, at 19:15:33
In reply to Anyone here had ECT, posted by linkadge on October 9, 2004, at 22:20:51
Yes, I have had 3 full courses (12 sessions/ 3 per week/ one month, start to finish) over the last 12 years - always done bilaterally. Am very seriously considering them again - in my case, for these reasons:
1) I nowadays have severely diminished quality of life due to GI side-effects of all anti-ds, all classes.
2) I respond VERY quickly, then VERY well to ECTs - some improvement felt after 1 or 2; after a full course, NO anti-d has ever given me this complete, robust, and full range of feelings, remission.
I will be having another full course, then maintanence ECTs thereafter - for life. I will be refusing to take anti-ds EVER again.
I have never had a single headache; no memory loss, whatsoever. I in no way consider ECTs to be a "last resort," but until very recently, the maintanence ones were not available in my area.
Now all - full course & maintanence - are done outpatient.
Posted by utopizen on October 14, 2004, at 20:20:17
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT, posted by blnch on October 14, 2004, at 19:15:33
> 1) I nowadays have severely diminished quality of life due to GI side-effects of all anti-ds, all classes.
>Not even Lexapro? I've tried all the AD's in the SSRI and SNRI classes, except Lexapro, which I recently started at 20mg. I'm planning on Cymbalta in a month or two if I fail it.
Posted by blnch on October 15, 2004, at 14:43:30
In reply to Re: Anyone here had ECT, posted by utopizen on October 14, 2004, at 20:20:17
Lexapro was far & away the VERY WORST re: GI side-effects. One-two weeks in, I found myself lying in bed at night crying, almost screaming from the cramping.
I also know of one young guy - newly diagnosed with Major Depression - he ended up in the hospital from pancreatitis from Lexapro. Of course, Lex drug reps aren't going to admit to this - or they'll say that it's a rare fuke, but I was emailng a psychiatrist I happened to find on the net in another state - he does private practice & indigent/ clinic MI work, and he reported seeing lots of GI problems with Lexapro. Ditto had his associates from all over the states.
Next worst - alto it's hard to choose! - is Wellbutrin - horrible eructation from the second I take one pill - thereafter, it NEVER abates.
(When I am off anti-ds, I have no GI problems to speak of, but am, of course, severely depressed, sooner than later.)
This is the end of the thread.
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