Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 107902

Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?

Posted by katekite on May 28, 2002, at 22:01:41

Buspar has an agonist effect at 5HT1a receptors and an antagonist effect at DA2 receptors.

This doesn't seem real different from some of the newer atypical antipsychotics. Is it just that it didn't work for psychosis and they thought, hey, we'll label this for anxiety because we can label anything for anxiety.... or is there a reason?

any thoughts?

kate

 

Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'? katekite

Posted by Ritch on May 29, 2002, at 8:47:34

In reply to why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?, posted by katekite on May 28, 2002, at 22:01:41

> Buspar has an agonist effect at 5HT1a receptors and an antagonist effect at DA2 receptors.
>
> This doesn't seem real different from some of the newer atypical antipsychotics. Is it just that it didn't work for psychosis and they thought, hey, we'll label this for anxiety because we can label anything for anxiety.... or is there a reason?
>
> any thoughts?
>
> kate


Kate,

If you look closer into the pharmachology section of Buspar's monograph it mentions dopamaine receptor antagonist *and* agonist activity. So buspirone has "mixed" effects (and probably not very strong effects either)at DA receptors. Where buspirone packs the punch is in its strong agonist activity at the 5-HT1a receptors you mentioned. Probaby the 2nd most potent activity is a2-adrenoreceptor antagonism (by one of its metabolites). I think they never intended buspirone (the developers) to be an antipsychotic. When it was being developed (in the late 70's early '80's I think)they were looking for a *non*benzodiazepine to treat anxiety and that was thought to be a really big goldmine since it wasn't "addictive" and wasn't a controlled substance, and patients could be switched off of cheap generic benzos and put on a non-addictive but pricey patent medicine instead. :)

Mitch

 

Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?

Posted by katekite on May 29, 2002, at 11:42:56

In reply to Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'? katekite, posted by Ritch on May 29, 2002, at 8:47:34

hmm, I never looked at its metabolites.

I wonder why it makes me feel frantic and zombie-ish? I had thought that was the dopamine antagonism but if that's such a weak effect and is mixed besides, shouldn't happen.

kate

 

Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'? katekite

Posted by Ritch on May 29, 2002, at 12:55:25

In reply to Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?, posted by katekite on May 29, 2002, at 11:42:56

> hmm, I never looked at its metabolites.
>
> I wonder why it makes me feel frantic and zombie-ish? I had thought that was the dopamine antagonism but if that's such a weak effect and is mixed besides, shouldn't happen.
>
> kate

Kate,

How much buspar are you taking? You are taking it with a psychostimulant right? I could never tolerate more than 7.5mg of Buspar in a single dose. It would make me feel like I was "smothering" (difficulty breathing) and my heart would race a little bit. Also, I would feel this cool "tingle" work its way up my spine while it was peaking. Frantic, eh? Watch out for any hostility reaction. It made me very, very hostile! I think it is the a-2 antagonism by its metabolite. Remeron made me very hostile as well and it is an a-2 antagonist. I am not sure why I seem to be adversely affected by meds that antagonize those particular receptors, but they do. I definitely wouldn't call buspar an antipsychotic!

Mitch

 

Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?

Posted by Penny on May 29, 2002, at 13:18:58

In reply to Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'? katekite, posted by Ritch on May 29, 2002, at 12:55:25

>Watch out for any hostility reaction. It made me very, very hostile!

In what way? I'm feeling very agitated since starting buspar and ending Wellbutrin. Totally blew up at the kids I nanny for last night, which is highly uncharacteristic of me. But I have a lot of stress in my life (looking for a new job, moving, etc) right now so I'm not sure what's causing me to feel like I'm feeling...meds or stress or a combination of both? I don't even know my dose...I'm taking so much right now I've lost track...

Penny

 

not taking it, just curious about mechanism Ritch

Posted by katekite on May 29, 2002, at 20:09:24

In reply to Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'? katekite, posted by Ritch on May 29, 2002, at 12:55:25

I haven't taken it recently. Tried it twice in about 5 years.... the first time not on anything else, the second time hoping to use it to get off klonopin. Both times was 2.5 mg, one dose in the evening. Both times after about 90 minutes I would feel out of it and anxious, a little lightheaded or just off.

I was just curious why it gets to have its own designation....

kate

 

Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'? Penny

Posted by Ritch on May 29, 2002, at 23:39:19

In reply to Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?, posted by Penny on May 29, 2002, at 13:18:58

> >Watch out for any hostility reaction. It made me very, very hostile!
>
> In what way? I'm feeling very agitated since starting buspar and ending Wellbutrin. Totally blew up at the kids I nanny for last night, which is highly uncharacteristic of me. But I have a lot of stress in my life (looking for a new job, moving, etc) right now so I'm not sure what's causing me to feel like I'm feeling...meds or stress or a combination of both? I don't even know my dose...I'm taking so much right now I've lost track...
>
> Penny


I didn't feel agitated in the sense that I was anxious while taking Buspar. I felt a very peculiar lack of anxiety, but everybody got under my skin in a big way. It was like instead of being intimidated by other people's *perceived* inappropriate hostility, I was the one that was dishing out inappropriate hostility to everybody else. I guess a good way to describe it was being argumentative and difficult without being timid or worried by the consequences of my argumentativeness. I just didn't have much impulse control at all. It was like being totally pissed about everything and I didn't *care* about other people's feelings.

Mitch

 

Re: not taking it, just curious about mechanism katekite

Posted by Ritch on May 29, 2002, at 23:47:40

In reply to not taking it, just curious about mechanism Ritch, posted by katekite on May 29, 2002, at 20:09:24

> I haven't taken it recently. Tried it twice in about 5 years.... the first time not on anything else, the second time hoping to use it to get off klonopin. Both times was 2.5 mg, one dose in the evening. Both times after about 90 minutes I would feel out of it and anxious, a little lightheaded or just off.
>
> I was just curious why it gets to have its own designation....
>
> kate

It is one of those meds that breaks down into other metaboites that may have very different actions than the parent drug and can be quite confusing due to that. I noticed that with Wellbutrin as well. With WB I *always* feel a positive improvement the *first few hours* I take it. Later in the day the metabolites start to dominate and I feel agitated and crappy feeling.

Mitch

 

Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?

Posted by omega man on June 1, 2002, at 23:16:02

In reply to why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?, posted by katekite on May 28, 2002, at 22:01:41

i've got buspar in my drug drawers...its got a very strong anti-anxiety effect...in that you don't feel anxious..just very straight headed...

My guts cant handle it though..but its definetely anti-anxiety compared to anti-psychotics I've tried although I'm not sure what the difference is between anxiety and psychosis...is anxiety not a specific regional subset psychosis anyway..in that impulses in the amygdala just keep repeating ?

 

Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'? omega man

Posted by katekite on June 2, 2002, at 10:10:53

In reply to Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?, posted by omega man on June 1, 2002, at 23:16:02

That's a really good question.. chemically what is anxiety?

I remember reading somewhere that the best way to produce a panic attack in people with a tendency to panic was a dose of an anti-GABA med. Lots of other things also made them panic, but that produced the worst feeling. Other things that made them panic included just run of the mill caffeine in higher doses.

I guess my original question about whether buspar is anti-psychotic was more a question over how the class of anti-psychotics is actually defined? Like how many people with hallucinations have to be helped before something is an anti-psychotic? Or is it more dependent on the chemical structure and known relatedness to other prototype drugs? Is there an accepted definition?

kate

 

Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'? katekite

Posted by omega man on June 2, 2002, at 14:06:12

In reply to Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'? omega man, posted by katekite on June 2, 2002, at 10:10:53

>Or is it more dependent on the chemical structure and known relatedness to other prototype drugs? Is there an accepted definition?


Psychiatrist don't tend to look at anything just now but behaviours...they check patients against an industry guide called DSM IV ..todays rule book for whats a mental illness and what is'nt..

 

Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?

Posted by Elizabeth on June 7, 2002, at 1:48:48

In reply to why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?, posted by katekite on May 28, 2002, at 22:01:41

Buspar was initially tested as an antipsychotic because of molecular similarities to haloperidol. Schizophrenic patients took doses as high as 2400 mg (not a typo). It was found ineffective.

Also, D2 blockade by Buspar is really quite minimal when compared with that of effective antipsychotics.

BTW, it's not really known whether the NE autoreceptor antagonist metabolite 1-(2-pyrimidinyl)piperazine (1-PP) really contributes at all to the observed effects of Buspar. I believe that Buspar does antagonize some of the behavioral effects of clonidine in mice, though, so maybe it does contribute.

 

thanks eliz.... 2400mg of buspar, wow! (nm)

Posted by katekite on June 8, 2002, at 10:21:16

In reply to Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?, posted by Elizabeth on June 7, 2002, at 1:48:48

 

Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?

Posted by Hildi on June 9, 2002, at 18:16:20

In reply to Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?, posted by Elizabeth on June 7, 2002, at 1:48:48

Is there any other supplement or med that is similar to (or better than) Buspar's anti-anxiety properties that any of you know of? I am a recovering addict/alcoholic and cannot take anything that is addicting.

 

I liked neurontin for anxiety but some hate it... (nm) Hildi

Posted by katekite on June 9, 2002, at 19:51:20

In reply to Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'?, posted by Hildi on June 9, 2002, at 18:16:20

 

Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'??

Posted by kpo2002 on June 12, 2002, at 3:42:52

In reply to Re: why is buspar not an 'antipsychotic'? omega man, posted by katekite on June 2, 2002, at 10:10:53

KateKite, you sound like you are a scientist.


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