Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 81137

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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds PattyG

Posted by NikkiT2 on October 19, 2001, at 11:52:03

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds, posted by PattyG on October 18, 2001, at 8:56:26

Hi patti.

The group I am invlolved in is a UK based one, Borderline UK. We have a Yahho Group (kind of forum thing) for people in the UK.

We will shortly be launching with a new, wonderful website which will hopefully contain information thatg is useful the world over, and we are trying to get links with similar groups abroad.

let me know if you would like to have the qddress of the Yahho Group.

Nikki

> Luckily I have an online friend who is vey involved in raising the awareness of BPD and he is doin g great work.
>
> Nikki
>
> ///Is this through a public forum of sorts (online)? I would be very interested to know.
> Thanks, PattyG

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki sar

Posted by Elizabeth on October 19, 2001, at 12:24:48

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki, posted by sar on October 18, 2001, at 23:51:02

> i had a hardliner mexican pdoc who'd grown up in the ghetto and laughed that "half of all white girls are borderline"--which to me signalled how lighthearted he was about pyschiatry; he'd been educated at Harvard but took neither himself nor his discipline too seriously...

I think there are a lot of psychiatrists at Harvard who are like that -- they make jokes that could be "offensive" to people who take things too seriously :-). (I liked said jokes.) I've never encountered a non-Harvard psychiatrist who didn't have that kind of sense of humour. Weird, eh?

-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki

Posted by PattyG on October 20, 2001, at 19:37:14

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki, posted by sar on October 18, 2001, at 23:51:02

sar wrote:

i've read alot on borderline and feel that it's--i don't know, i just don't know if i belive in it fully. i had a hardliner
mexican pdoc who'd grown up in the ghetto and laughed that "half of all white girls are borderline"--which to me signalled how lighthearted he was about pyschiatry; he'd been educated at Harvard but took neither himself nor his discipline too seriously...

//////I would find that remark to be rather chauvinistic, to say the least. Not to mention rude!

how do you feel about the diagnosis of Borderline vs. Bipolar?
i feel as if they're both just labels--bipolars are a little bit more loveable than "borderlines"--oh, it just seems so sunjective...have you read *Walking on Eggshells* and *I Hate You, Don't Leave Me"?

//////I feel they're just diagnoses and if one suffers from either or both, it's through no fault of their own. I know there is quite a bit of stigma with Borderlines, but I've found quite a few of them to be very lovable:) I have read both books you mentioned - they're both good.

just the observance of a menial bookstore worker, nothing scientific.

////Thanks for sharing:)

PattyG

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by PattyG on October 20, 2001, at 19:43:15

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds PattyG, posted by NikkiT2 on October 19, 2001, at 11:52:03

Nikki wrote:

The group I am invlolved in is a UK based one, Borderline UK. We have a Yahho Group (kind of forum thing) for people in the UK.

We will shortly be launching with a new, wonderful website which will hopefully contain information thatg is useful the world over, and we are trying to get links with similar groups abroad.

let me know if you would like to have the qddress of the Yahho Group.

/////Yes, please - I would be most interested. Thank you!

PattyG

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth

Posted by sar on October 21, 2001, at 13:36:58

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki sar, posted by Elizabeth on October 19, 2001, at 12:24:48


> I think there are a lot of psychiatrists at Harvard who are like that -- they make jokes that could be "offensive" to people who take things too seriously :-). (I liked said jokes.) I've never encountered a non-Harvard psychiatrist who didn't have that kind of sense of humour. Weird, eh?
>
> -elizabeth

i agree with you. the guy is a top pdoc here, funny as hell...what fluid labels...he dx'd me borderline, histrionic, and bipolar II, and said that the prevailing dx would be bipolar II because i'm "good company." he grinned.

i don't think i would have let another doc give me all those dx's without putting up a fight.

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar

Posted by Elizabeth on October 22, 2001, at 10:30:33

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth, posted by sar on October 21, 2001, at 13:36:58

> i agree with you. the guy is a top pdoc here, funny as hell...what fluid labels...he dx'd me borderline, histrionic, and bipolar II, and said that the prevailing dx would be bipolar II because i'm "good company." he grinned.

It's funny to joke about it, but when you consider that a lot of doctors are going around giving patients diagnoses based on whether they like them or not, it becomes clear that there's a serious problem with the system. (Although I have to admit that a lot of bipolar II folks are, indeed, good company, some of them aren't; that doesn't mean that they're bad people or that their illness is their fault or that they don't "really" have bipolar disorder at all.)

I have to admit I'm sort of curious who your doctor is. Is he actually affiliated with HMS, or did he just go to school there?

-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth

Posted by sar on October 22, 2001, at 11:20:47

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar, posted by Elizabeth on October 22, 2001, at 10:30:33


> It's funny to joke about it, but when you consider that a lot of doctors are going around giving patients diagnoses based on whether they like them or not, it becomes clear that there's a serious problem with the system.

Well, that's what my psychoanayst said a few months ago. She hesitated to dx me "borderline" because that label is often reserved for patients that the docs just can't get along with or understand.

(Although I have to admit that a lot of bipolar II folks are, indeed, good company, some of them aren't; that doesn't mean that they're bad people or that their illness is their fault or that they don't "really" have bipolar disorder at all.)

Right, right, i don't necessarily know whether i'm good company or not, i think the implication was that the borderline label carries such stigma.


> I have to admit I'm sort of curious who your doctor is. Is he actually affiliated with HMS, or did he just go to school there?

Oh, i think he just went to school there. Robert Jimenez is his name.

i don't necessarily agree with his hasty diagnoses; by our second meeting he'd given me 3 pretty extreme ones (and i'm a pretty mellow, soft-spoken, polite person). you think something's amiss?

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar

Posted by Elizabeth on October 22, 2001, at 12:08:33

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth, posted by sar on October 22, 2001, at 11:20:47

> Well, that's what my psychoanayst said a few months ago. She hesitated to dx me "borderline" because that label is often reserved for patients that the docs just can't get along with or understand.

She's right, it is.

> Oh, i think he just went to school there. Robert Jimenez is his name.

Are you in the Boston area?

> i don't necessarily agree with his hasty diagnoses; by our second meeting he'd given me 3 pretty extreme ones (and i'm a pretty mellow, soft-spoken, polite person). you think something's amiss?

I think that diagnoses are just labels, and it sounds like your pdoc knows this. So you don't need to take a psychiatric diagnosis too seriously (and doing so might really be harmful to your self-esteem, so I'd advise against it!).

-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth

Posted by sar on October 22, 2001, at 17:18:52

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar, posted by Elizabeth on October 22, 2001, at 12:08:33

> > Well, that's what my psychoanayst said a few months ago. She hesitated to dx me "borderline" because that label is often reserved for patients that the docs just can't get along with or understand.
>
> She's right, it is.


i discovered my borderline tendencies through my own research and i was actually the first one to call myself "borderline"...the books helped, and now that i'm in the process of mending my ways (who says borderlines are difficult to treat?!) i no longer consider myself such.

> > Oh, i think he just went to school there. Robert Jimenez is his name.
>
> Are you in the Boston area?

no, southwest texas...

> I think that diagnoses are just labels, and it sounds like your pdoc knows this. So you don't need to take a psychiatric diagnosis too seriously (and doing so might really be harmful to your self-esteem, so I'd advise against it!).

the borderline label hurt, the histrionic one made me laugh, and the BP II--well i now i have firstahnd knowledge that it's the meds, not the dx. which i had read many times before but could not fully understand.

having read up on all of my diagnoses has helped change my behavior, though.

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by Cecilia on October 23, 2001, at 2:32:29

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth, posted by sar on October 22, 2001, at 17:18:52

> > > Well, that's what my psychoanayst said a few months ago. She hesitated to dx me "borderline" because that label is often reserved for patients that the docs just can't get along with or understand.
> >
> > She's right, it is.
>
>
> i discovered my borderline tendencies through my own research and i was actually the first one to call myself "borderline"...the books helped, and now that i'm in the process of mending my ways (who says borderlines are difficult to treat?!) i no longer consider myself such.
>
> > > Oh, i think he just went to school there. Robert Jimenez is his name.
> >
> > Are you in the Boston area?
>
> no, southwest texas...
>
> > I think that diagnoses are just labels, and it sounds like your pdoc knows this. So you don't need to take a psychiatric diagnosis too seriously (and doing so might really be harmful to your self-esteem, so I'd advise against it!).
>
> the borderline label hurt, the histrionic one made me laugh, and the BP II--well i now i have firstahnd knowledge that it's the meds, not the dx. which i had read many times before but could not fully understand.
>
> having read up on all of my diagnoses has helped change my behavior, though.

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder- I read somewhere that the way a lot of doctors and therapists make this diagnosis is basically: Why isn`t Ms. X getting better? Because she`s a borderline. How do you know she`s a borderline? Because she isn`t getting better.

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by PattyG on October 23, 2001, at 11:35:13

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds, posted by Cecilia on October 23, 2001, at 2:32:29

Posted by Cecilia on October 23, 2001, at 2:32:29

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder- I read somewhere that the way a lot of doctors and therapists make this
diagnosis is basically: Why isn`t Ms. X getting better? Because she`s a borderline. How do you know she`s a borderline? Because she isn`t getting better.

////Well, personally, I guess I think the same could be said about a lot of Schizophrenics, and those with Bipolar Mood Disorder............and what about the Narcissists and those with Anti Social Personality Disorder? Heck, I don't think the above criteria can be reserved for *only* those rascals, the Borderlines!
PattyG

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by Cecilia on October 25, 2001, at 3:23:54

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds, posted by PattyG on October 23, 2001, at 11:35:13

> Posted by Cecilia on October 23, 2001, at 2:32:29
>
> Re: Borderline Personality Disorder- I read somewhere that the way a lot of doctors and therapists make this
> diagnosis is basically: Why isn`t Ms. X getting better? Because she`s a borderline. How do you know she`s a borderline? Because she isn`t getting better.
>
> ////Well, personally, I guess I think the same could be said about a lot of Schizophrenics, and those with Bipolar Mood Disorder............and what about the Narcissists and those with Anti Social Personality Disorder? Heck, I don't think the above criteria can be reserved for *only* those rascals, the Borderlines!
> PattyG

Right, but at least they usually use the DSM criteria in diagnosing those disorders, whereas doctors use the borderline label to justify their failure to successfully treat a patient whether they meet the diagnostic criteria or not.

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by Andre Allard on October 25, 2001, at 6:54:20

In reply to Borderline Personality Disorder Meds, posted by tina on October 12, 2001, at 14:35:20

From the research I have done, it seems that the front runners in the treatment of BPD are:

zoloft 200-400mg, prozac 80-120mg, effexor xr 300-600mg, serzone 500-750mg

Paxil, TCA's and lithium can worsen symptoms.

Neurontin, lamictal, tegretol and valproic acid have shown a moderate efficiousy.

The atypicals, specifically zyprexa, in small dosages, have done very well in some patients for all symptoms.

A few pdocs claim that they have not had a BPD patient not respond to effexor xr in dosages of 300mg and up - as long as they could handle the side effects.

From my own experience:
200mg zoloft helped but made me nervous

Paxil and Celexa improved my mood slightly and helped with anxiety

Lamictal and serzone gave me skin problems in small dosages

valproic acid made me somnalant and worsened my mood

seroquel at 50mg did little

resperidone improved my mood a little and gave me speech problems - I could not pronounce many words

clomipramine calmed my obsessions but the side effects were awful

Zyprexa calmed my obsessions, improved my anxiety, mood, impulsivity and did what no other med has been able to do - controled my emotions and made me feel normal. I actually did not have emotions, which was OK by me. The only catch was that even at 2.5mg I craved sweets and could not control these cravings causing me to gain 5-7 pounds in 11 days.

effexor xr has been the best AD for me. Once upon a time 225mg did the trick and now I am up to 450mg.

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Cecilia

Posted by Dinah on October 25, 2001, at 8:11:28

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds, posted by Cecilia on October 25, 2001, at 3:23:54


>
> Right, but at least they usually use the DSM criteria in diagnosing those disorders, whereas doctors use the borderline label to justify their failure to successfully treat a patient whether they meet the diagnostic criteria or not.

I think it might depend on the doctor. The latest things I have read about borderline personality disorder are pretty compassionate. They seem to think of it as a biological tendency to be emotionally reactive, and a group of coping defenses that were put in place to deal with that tendency, but end up being maladaptive. I would guess that as more evidence backs up to show that medications and training to replace maladaptive coping skills with more effective ones are effective in treating borderline cases, that the diagnosis will become less charged.
As always, it is important to find an enlightened and knowledgeable doctor.

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar

Posted by Elizabeth on October 25, 2001, at 11:23:55

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth, posted by sar on October 22, 2001, at 17:18:52

> i discovered my borderline tendencies through my own research and i was actually the first one to call myself "borderline"...

Careful with self-diagnosing. The symptoms and features of BPD are pretty far-reaching, and most people will find something of themselves in a description (as in pop psychology books) or in the diagnostic criteria. (ADD is a lot like that too.)

IMO, if you have some self-defeating behaviours that you need to fix, focus on your specific problems, not on a label.

> > Are you in the Boston area?
>
> no, southwest texas...

Ahh, then your doctor would definitely not be affiliated with Harvard (in eastern Massachusetts)!

> the borderline label hurt, the histrionic one made me laugh, and the BP II--well i now i have firstahnd knowledge that it's the meds, not the dx.

What do you mean by that?

> having read up on all of my diagnoses has helped change my behavior, though.

Well, that's good then. But I don't think it should require a pejorative label for patients to identify your problems and work on correcting them.

best,
-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by Elizabeth on October 25, 2001, at 11:32:50

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds, posted by PattyG on October 23, 2001, at 11:35:13

> ////Well, personally, I guess I think the same could be said about a lot of Schizophrenics, and those with Bipolar Mood Disorder............and what about the Narcissists and those with Anti Social Personality Disorder?

No, I wouldn't say so. Schizophrenia used to be a "wastebasket diagnosis," but today it's been defined much more clearly and is better understood. Schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are both conditions that are considered to be responsive to medication.

I suspect that antisocial personality disorder is overdiagnosed, especially in prison populations. An important criterion that must be met for a diagnosis of antisocial PD to be made and which is probably often glossed over is: "evidence of Conduct Disorder with onset before age 15 years."

Narcissistic personality disorder, unlike borderline, isn't an especially trendy diagnosis.

-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by Elizabeth on October 25, 2001, at 11:52:59

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds, posted by Andre Allard on October 25, 2001, at 6:54:20

> From the research I have done, it seems that the front runners in the treatment of BPD are:

I'm glad to hear that you have found some things that help for you. It really isn't reasonable, however, to suggest that what worked for you will work for others, especially since BPD patients are such a heterogeneous group. An impression of what works and doesn't work based exclusively on the self-reports of other patients is also likely to be pretty inaccurate.

Your experience that SSRIs and Effexor seem to work well (sometimes in high doses), and that tricyclics (except, perhaps, clomipramine) can make BPD symptoms worse, is consistent with what has been found when the effects of these medications on BPD symptoms were studied. There is no evidence suggesting that either Paxil or lithium worsens BPD symptoms, although anticonvulsants are often preferred over lithium when there are features of mixed (dysphoric) mania or rapid cycling. These anticonvulsant mood stabilizers are often very effective for emotional lability and impulsivity. Atypical antipsychotics can be helpful for certain symptoms, notably agitation and suicidal or parasuicidal urges.

-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth

Posted by sar on October 25, 2001, at 13:51:08

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar, posted by Elizabeth on October 25, 2001, at 11:23:55


> Careful with self-diagnosing. The symptoms and features of BPD are pretty far-reaching, and most people will find something of themselves in a description (as in pop psychology books) or in the diagnostic criteria. (ADD is a lot like that too.)

right, give me enough time w/ the DSM and it's dangerous... :)

> IMO, if you have some self-defeating behaviours that you need to fix, focus on your specific problems, not on a label.

i agree. reading about problems that people with BPD frequently have helped open my eyes to some faults that i have but i really wasn't fully aware of...at the time of the dx, i *wanted* a label so i could go get books and understand why i felt and acted so crazy.

> > no, southwest texas...
>
> Ahh, then your doctor would definitely not be affiliated with Harvard (in eastern Massachusetts)!

oh no...he'd just gone to school there...this shows how easily impressed i am! :)
>
> > the borderline label hurt, the histrionic one made me laugh, and the BP II--well i now i have firstahnd knowledge that it's the meds, not the dx.
>
> What do you mean by that?

well, the borderline label hurt because it rung true with me. the dx of histrionic personality disorder made me laugh because i'm a social phobic and can't *stand* to be the center of attention, i'm pretty quiet, etc...this doctor had met me only once and slapped this dx into my file! Whether or not I've got BPII is up in the air--but i've done my reading and gotten my drugs...i'm all labelled out. i just want to feel better (and i have been).

> Well, that's good then. But I don't think it should require a pejorative label for patients to identify your problems and work on correcting them.

i agree. the labels helped me w/ research because i've not been able to afford a decent therapist in many months (no insurance).

i think it also depends on whether or not one considers the label "perjorative." my psychoanalyst believed it was a trashcan dx and did not want to label me that. the male psychiatrist told me that borderlines and histrionics are very charming and attractive. what a nut, no wonder i'm not seeing him anymore...(that's the one who went to Harvard).

thanks for your input.

best,
sar

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar

Posted by Elizabeth on October 26, 2001, at 11:22:02

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth, posted by sar on October 25, 2001, at 13:51:08

> right, give me enough time w/ the DSM and it's dangerous... :)

Did you see the movie they made of Girl, Interrupted? There's a scene where Winona Ryder reads the diagnostic criteria for BPD (which actually were only first spelled out in 1980, in DSM-III) and says something to the effect of, "That is *so* me." To which Angelina Jolie replies, "That's everybody." < g >

> i agree. reading about problems that people with BPD frequently have helped open my eyes to some faults that i have but i really wasn't fully aware of...

That's understandable. I think that a lot of people could learn some things about themselves by reading about psychological disorders -- including "normies." :-)

> at the time of the dx, i *wanted* a label so i could go get books and understand why i felt and acted so crazy.

That's understandable, too. But getting yourself labelled "borderline" usually isn't in your best interests, IMO (although you had no way of knowing that at the time).

> > Ahh, then your doctor would definitely not be affiliated with Harvard (in eastern Massachusetts)!
>
> oh no...he'd just gone to school there...this shows how easily impressed i am! :)

Heh. Until recently I lived in Cambridge, Mass. Boston (and the surrounding area) is swarming with psychiatrists, nearly all of them HMS alums and/or HMS-affiliated.

> well, the borderline label hurt because it rung true with me. the dx of histrionic personality disorder made me laugh because i'm a social phobic and can't *stand* to be the center of attention, i'm pretty quiet, etc...this doctor had met me only once and slapped this dx into my file!

See, I think that patients should have some protection as to what goes into their medical records. A lot of doctors are quick to make stigmatizing diagnoses. (IMO, a lot of the "personality disorder" labels are best considered name-calling rather than legitimate diagnoses.)

> Whether or not I've got BPII is up in the air--but i've done my reading and gotten my drugs...i'm all labelled out. i just want to feel better (and i have been).

Good! That's the point of all this -- to help us feel okay and get our lives back together, not to satisfy some doctor's ego. ;-)

> i agree. the labels helped me w/ research because i've not been able to afford a decent therapist in many months (no insurance).

My insurance recently lapsed, and I've been worried ever since. I actually had one of these seizure-like episodes recently and was really worried, but it turned out that I could get financial assistance to pay the hospital bills. (I haven't any firm evidence that the episodes are in fact seizures, but all the doctors I've spoken to say that's what it sounds like.)

> i think it also depends on whether or not one considers the label "perjorative."

If clinicians tend to become prejudiced against you based on no relevant information other than the diagnosis, I'd say it's "pejorative." "Stigmatizing" is probably a better word.

> the male psychiatrist told me that borderlines and histrionics are very charming and attractive.

Oh jeez. (Actually, I wouldn't say that of BPD necessarily, but it's practically part of the definition of HPD. It's considered "manipulative," though, so I wouldn't take it as a compliment.)

> what a nut, no wonder i'm not seeing him anymore...(that's the one who went to Harvard).

Harvard graduates nuts too. (You should see the undergrads.)

-elizabeth

 

Elizabeth?

Posted by judy1 on October 26, 2001, at 15:29:10

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar, posted by Elizabeth on October 26, 2001, at 11:22:02

You mentioned having a seizure (like) episode recently- I wasn't aware of you experiencing that particular problem. Have you had a thorough work-up by an epileptologist (sp?), the kind where they keep you 24 hours and monitor you? My pdoc has been pushing that for months for me and I was wondering if you had in fact done something similar. Hope you are feeling well- Judy

 

Re: stuff judy1

Posted by Elizabeth on October 26, 2001, at 16:28:10

In reply to Elizabeth?, posted by judy1 on October 26, 2001, at 15:29:10

> You mentioned having a seizure (like) episode recently- I wasn't aware of you experiencing that particular problem.

I've been pretty open about it. See http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010917/msgs/79454.html
for details.

> Have you had a thorough work-up by an epileptologist (sp?), the kind where they keep you 24 hours and monitor you?

I've had a 72-hour EEG. I've had all kinds of EEGs in the last few years, all normal. I'm planning on setting up an appointment with a neurologist (waiting for a referral).

> My pdoc has been pushing that for months for me and I was wondering if you had in fact done something similar. Hope you are feeling well- Judy

What, your pdoc wants you to see a neurologist? I dunno whether it's reasonable, I guess it depends on what kind of symptoms you're having.

-elizabeth

 

Re: stuff Elizabeth

Posted by judy1 on October 26, 2001, at 22:54:59

In reply to Re: stuff judy1, posted by Elizabeth on October 26, 2001, at 16:28:10

Hi Elizabeth,
Perhaps missing your posts is a good enough reason to see a neurologist :-) I do see one regularly however. I've had 2 fairly serious car accidents in the last 3 years, both resulting in gran mal seizures, the last 30 minutes LOC. My cycling (bipolar) has considerably worsened since the first accident, and my shrink feels there is a connection between bipolar, panic and epilepsy which is why he wants a thorough work-up in the hospital. I have had normal CTs, EEGs and MRIs- except for herniated discs that 2 neurosurgeons will not touch because of my mood disorder, apparently they have had very little luck in surgery on people with depression and often a very rocky post-op course. Does trileptal work for you? Are you experiencing symptoms frequently? I have memory and dissociation problems- probably attributable to my dissociative disorder but I happen to have a very thorough pdoc. Take care- judy

 

Re: stuff judy1

Posted by Elizabeth on October 28, 2001, at 10:13:51

In reply to Re: stuff Elizabeth, posted by judy1 on October 26, 2001, at 22:54:59

Hi Judy.

> I've had 2 fairly serious car accidents in the last 3 years, both resulting in gran mal seizures, the last 30 minutes LOC.

(You mean "resulting *from* grand mal seizures," right?)

If the seizure lasted 30 minutes, that would be considered generalized status epilepticus -- very serious. It's a good thing that you survived. Maybe the loss of consciousness could be a postictal phenomenon, I don't know. I did have a pretty long-lasting lapse in memory this most recent time.

The episodes I've had are very infrequent and would be considered complex partial seizures (if they were, indeed, seizures at all). "Partial" means that seizure activity is confined to one part of the brain, and "complex" means that there is a disturbance of consciousness (memory loss).

> My cycling (bipolar) has considerably worsened since the first accident, and my shrink feels there is a connection between bipolar, panic and epilepsy which is why he wants a thorough work-up in the hospital.

Are you only having generalized (grand mal) seizures? A lot of people with epilepsy have psychiatric problems too, especially mood disorders (sometimes called "interictal dysphoria"), and sometimes limbic seizures can present as panic attacks.

> I have had normal CTs, EEGs and MRIs- except for herniated discs that 2 neurosurgeons will not touch because of my mood disorder, apparently they have had very little luck in surgery on people with depression and often a very rocky post-op course.

That's curious. Perhaps they want people to discontinue their medications before surgery. That could certainly make the recovery "rocky."

> Does trileptal work for you?

I can't tell if it works. I haven't had another episode since I've been taking it, but then, the interval between the last one and the one before that had been around 6 months.

> I have memory and dissociation problems- probably attributable to my dissociative disorder but I happen to have a very thorough pdoc.

Seizures, even partial seizures, often cause memory lapses and dissociative symptoms. Don't rule it out.

-elizabeth

 

Seizures and their symptoms Elizabeth

Posted by judy1 on October 28, 2001, at 10:51:22

In reply to Re: stuff judy1, posted by Elizabeth on October 28, 2001, at 10:13:51

Hi Elizabeth,
Thank you for your input. Actually my seizures resulted from my car accidents. The last was minor compared to the first (helicopter ride which I don't remember- damn). According to my neurologist, just the type of shaking from a care accident can set off a seizure (generalized) and as a result I've lost privileges to roller coasters, etc. I agree that dissociative symptoms are similar to partial seizures, but I recently lost 2 days so I think I'm grasping at straws here. Please let me know how your testing goes and I hope the trileptal working isn't merely a coincidence. Take care- Judy

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth

Posted by sar on October 29, 2001, at 0:04:09

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar, posted by Elizabeth on October 26, 2001, at 11:22:02

> > right, give me enough time w/ the DSM and it's dangerous... :)
>
> Did you see the movie they made of Girl, Interrupted? There's a scene where Winona Ryder reads the diagnostic criteria for BPD (which actually were only first spelled out in 1980, in DSM-III) and says something to the effect of, "That is *so* me." To which Angelina Jolie replies, "That's everybody." < g >


true, true! after i saw the movie i read susannah kaysen's book and loved it....particularly because she disputes her BPD dx and didn't even find out about it until years fetr she'd been hospitalised. and susannah's character in Girl--she wasn't psychotic, was she? she certainly didn't seem strange to me...striking point of the movie....she seemed so disturbed-normal--like a normal teenage girl!!...i'm glad yopu remembered what Jolie's character said...
> > i agree. reading about problems that people with BPD frequently have helped open my eyes to some faults that i have but i really wasn't fully aware of...
>
> That's understandable. I think that a lot of people could learn some things about themselves by reading about psychological disorders -- including "normies." :-)

it's a fine line, eh?

> > at the time of the dx, i *wanted* a label so i could go get books and understand why i felt and acted so crazy.
>
> That's understandable, too. But getting yourself labelled "borderline" usually isn't in your best interests, IMO (although you had no way of knowing that at the time).


that's why my psychoanalyst would not dx me as "borderline," though she said i probably met 5 or 6 of the citeria. she said that life insurance companies have a way of prejudicing (is that a word?) against the mentally ill and especially against "borderlines" because they have a relatve;y high suicide rate...so officially she dx'd me with an "adjustment disoder."


>
> Heh. Until recently I lived in Cambridge, Mass. Boston (and the surrounding area) is swarming with psychiatrists, nearly all of them HMS alums and/or HMS-affiliated.

have you read the elizabeth wurtzel book? for awhile i momentarily thot that perhaps you were wurtzel. what is your profession?
>
>
> See, I think that patients should have some protection as to what goes into their medical records. A lot of doctors are quick to make stigmatizing diagnoses. (IMO, a lot of the "personality disorder" labels are best considered name-calling rather than legitimate diagnoses.)

i agree with you. i can't say i really give a shit about what they write about me because it hasn't affected me so far, but the so out-in-theleft-field diagnoses leave me...untrusting and bewildered. this guy was so sure that i'm histrionic...i'd *never* thought that of myself, though i'd completely identified with and reconciled with having social anxiety disorder. this doc's beef may have been socioeconimic, i don't know...i just know i was the only white person in his wair\ting room, and by far the vest-dressed (not to brag on myself...only to illustrate that one of the best docs on tpwn chose to run a clinic for the poor downtown)

> > Whether or not I've got BPII is up in the air--but i've done my reading and gotten my drugs...i'm all labelled out. i just want to feel better (and i have been).
>
> Good! That's the point of all this -- to help us feel okay and get our lives back together, not to satisfy some doctor's ego. ;-)
>
> > i agree. the labels helped me w/ research because i've not been able to afford a decent therapist in many months (no insurance).
>
> My insurance recently lapsed, and I've been worried ever since. I actually had one of these seizure-like episodes recently and was really worried, but it turned out that I could get financial assistance to pay the hospital bills. (I haven't any firm evidence that the episodes are in fact seizures, but all the doctors I've spoken to say that's what it sounds like.)


What kind of job do you have? your posts seem v. educated...

> > i think it also depends on whether or not one considers the label "perjorative."
>
> If clinicians tend to become prejudiced against you based on no relevant information other than the diagnosis, I'd say it's "pejorative." "Stigmatizing" is probably a better word.


this particular pdoc seemed to have a unique argumentative attraction toward me, whcih i was unaccustomed to. i rememebered why i'd always requested females docs. the guy seemed prejudiced in the sense that (and i saw him for months) because my skin is white and eys blue, because i can afford to shop at the mall, because i smell od soap and wear expensive sung;asses i could NOT POSSIBLY have a mental illness, that i should feel oh-so happy lucky and safe in suburbia as opposed to where he grew up OH 50 YEARS AGO ON THE WEST-SIDE, endogenous vs exogenous, of f*** that sh**..."you're privilged, you should be happy..." no, mofo, i come from much sadder...

elizabeth, i really appreciate your participation on the board. are you a doctor at all? you seem v. knowledgeable.

my best,
sar
> > the male psychiatrist told me that borderlines and histrionics are very charming and attractive.
>
> Oh jeez. (Actually, I wouldn't say that of BPD necessarily, but it's practically part of the definition of HPD. It's considered "manipulative," though, so I wouldn't take it as a compliment.)
>
> > what a nut, no wonder i'm not seeing him anymore...(that's the one who went to Harvard).
>
> Harvard graduates nuts too. (You should see the undergrads.)
>
> -elizabeth


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