Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 81137

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 68. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by tina on October 12, 2001, at 14:35:20

What is usually given to someone who has this disorder?

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds tina

Posted by NikkiT2 on October 12, 2001, at 16:02:11

In reply to Borderline Personality Disorder Meds, posted by tina on October 12, 2001, at 14:35:20

Anything and everything!!!

But I'm currently on 300mg Effexor XR and 10mg Zyprexa!!!

N xx

> What is usually given to someone who has this disorder?

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by meggles0019 on October 12, 2001, at 21:06:11

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds tina, posted by NikkiT2 on October 12, 2001, at 16:02:11

i started on prozac (which worked well except the weight gain) and now i'm on effexor & adderall.

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds tina

Posted by Elizabeth on October 13, 2001, at 17:45:37

In reply to Borderline Personality Disorder Meds, posted by tina on October 12, 2001, at 14:35:20

> What is usually given to someone who has this disorder?

Nikki is right, just about everything is effective for some people with BPD. Here are the main types of medications used for this disorder (this list is not all-encompassing):

Antidepressants: help with dysphoria, mood reactivity, impulsivity, irritability, aggression, pessimism. SSRIs, MAOIs, and Effexor are the most common ones used, and Wellbutrin and Remeron are used sometimes as well. Tricyclics are probably contraindicated since they tend not to work and may even worsen symptoms.

Mood stabilizers: help with moodiness, irritability, impulsivity. Depakote, Lamictal, and Tegretol are known to be effective, and Neurontin is used sometimes but I think it's not as popular as the other ones. Lithium sometimes works but I think not as often as the anticonvulsant mood stabilizers. MS should particularly be considered if there are features suggestive of dysphoric mania or hypomania; some researchers think that bipolar II disorder or cyclothymia in women are sometimes misdiagnosed as BPD.

Antipsychotics: the main ones used are the newer and safer "atypical" antipsychotics: Zyprexa, Risperdal, Seroquel, Geodon. They can relieve aggression and suicidal obsessions and prevent suicidal or parasuicidal acts.

Benzodiazepines: help with anxiety and agitation; may relieve dissociative symptoms but sometimes exacerbate then. The most commonly used one is probably Klonopin; Xanax should be avoided as it has triggered serious behavioral disinhibition in some people with BPD (I think Valium has too, not sure).

Stimulants (Ritalin, Dexedrine, Adderall): Sometimes ADHD (particularly in women) is misdiagnosed as BPD or occurs together with BPD. Stimulants can help with irritability, aggression, and impulsivity.

The opioid antagonist naltrexone (Trexan, ReVia) may help with self-injury. It also is used as a treatment for alcohol and opioid addictions, to relieve cravings. I don't think this drug is used all that much in BPD, but I wanted to mention it because I have encountered a couple people who used to self-injure and who felt they were really helped by naltrexone.

I hope this is helpful. Good luck to you -- it's a hard-to-treat disorder, but there are more and more treatments being recognized as effective.

-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth

Posted by NikkiT2 on October 14, 2001, at 12:50:07

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds NikkiT2, posted by Elizabeth on October 14, 2001, at 10:38:32

D'oh... c\hecked "no message" instead of name of previous poster!! And it was such a long message too!!

Anyway, it was basically thanking you for all the info on BPD.

I'm awaiting DBT to try and help mine, but you gace me alot to think about and discuss with my pdoc!

Thanks!

Nikki

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds NikkiT2

Posted by Elizabeth on October 15, 2001, at 10:14:29

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth, posted by NikkiT2 on October 14, 2001, at 12:50:07

> D'oh... c\hecked "no message" instead of name of previous poster!! And it was such a long message too!!
>
> Anyway, it was basically thanking you for all the info on BPD.

Oh, okay. Well, you're welcome. I was just confused! :-)

BPD is an interesting disorder, and it presents quite a challenge for patient and treaters alike. I hope that you are doing well. DBT sounds to me like an excellent and innovative therapy, and I hope that you find it helpful. I think that after an initial program of about 6-12 months (of group + individual DBT), it would probably be good to continue individual therapy including aspects of DBT and perhaps interpersonal psychotherapy. A DBT group can serve as a support group of people who know what you're going through, too.

I do think that the efficacy of medication for this disoerder has been dangerously underplayed -- it's hard to figure out which class of medication will work for a particular person, but I think that there's always something out there that will at least alleviate the symptoms. Unfortunately, there's a lot of "blame-the-victim" mentality among therapists with regard to borderline patients, which can be hard for them to overcome. IMO, this type of attitude often leads to inadequate treatment and even worsening of symptoms. Patients who are treated as though their illness is their fault and told that medication will not help or isn't "appropriate" are liable to feel rejected, misunderstood, and demoralized, and may become less likely to continue seeking potentially helpful treatment. Because they are often very sensitive to rejection (as I'm sure you know!), they could even become suicidal as a result of such lack of empathy on the part of the therapist. Some therapists even believe that BPD is a manifestation of antisocial personality (sociopathy) in women. Disgraceful.

So, don't give up hope or let yourself become discouraged by the attitudes of undereducated treaters (and remember that they're not all like that!). There are lots of things that could help you, although you may have to go through a lot of trials to find the right ones.

-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth

Posted by NikkiT2 on October 15, 2001, at 13:30:15

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds NikkiT2, posted by Elizabeth on October 15, 2001, at 10:14:29

I am relly lucky in that mu pdoc is younga nd enthusiastic.. I had a real old idiot for 2 yers before him so my new one is like breath of fresh air. he is vey keen on my opinions and is willing to try new treatment methods.

s for the DBT, they want me to start that as soon as possible (or as soon as they can fit me in!) and after that has started, start some intensive "talk" therapy (3 times week - maybe every day). he also wants me to thiunk about joining a group that meets once a week, specifically aimed at those with BPD.

i spent two yers getting no help, and now have it piling up - it really gives me hope though.

Thanks for so supportive over it!!

Nikki x

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds NikkiT2

Posted by Elizabeth on October 16, 2001, at 13:11:23

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth, posted by NikkiT2 on October 15, 2001, at 13:30:15

> I am relly lucky in that mu pdoc is younga nd enthusiastic..

That's been my experience with young pdocs, too: they're excited, and their knowledge is very up-to-date. They also seem to understand pharmacology better than many older pdocs do, IME.

> s for the DBT, they want me to start that as soon as possible (or as soon as they can fit me in!) and after that has started, start some intensive "talk" therapy (3 times week - maybe every day).

That sounds like a good plan, assuming the therapist is a good match for you. (Who's "they," out of curiosity?)

> he also wants me to thiunk about joining a group that meets once a week, specifically aimed at those with BPD.

Like a support group, or interpersonal group therapy? That's a good idea. You might find that there's a lot of interpersonal tension in the group, but I still think it could be very helpful.

> i spent two yers getting no help, and now have it piling up - it really gives me hope though.

Two years? That's not good. I know that if I went without treatment that long, I'd be a total basket case, and my understanding is that BPD is a much more chronic thing than depression (my personal demon) is.

> Thanks for so supportive over it!!

Well, sure. How could I be anything else? It's a terrible disorder to have to live with, and I really feel for you (especially in light of all the stigma directed at people with BPD). I hope that things work out!

Best wishes,
-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth

Posted by NikkiT2 on October 16, 2001, at 14:39:50

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds NikkiT2, posted by Elizabeth on October 16, 2001, at 13:11:23

(Who's "they," out of curiosity?)
>

The Psychiatrist and PsychoTherapist both htink this will be good, and they also have a report saying the same from a Psychologist I saw twice!

The biggest hassle about being BPD is that people presume that the borderline means its only "nearly" a mental illness. that annoys me so much - the depression side alone gets so much stigma.
Luckily I have an online friend who is vey involved in raising the awareness of BPD and he is doin g great work.

Nikki

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds NikkiT2

Posted by Elizabeth on October 16, 2001, at 18:02:48

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth, posted by NikkiT2 on October 16, 2001, at 14:39:50

> The Psychiatrist and PsychoTherapist both htink this will be good, and they also have a report saying the same from a Psychologist I saw twice!

That's cool. I think that a lot of people in the field, even psychoanalytic types, are finding this type of therapy useful (not just for BPD, either: it's being modified for eating disorders and drug addiction too).

> The biggest hassle about being BPD is that people presume that the borderline means its only "nearly" a mental illness.

Really? That's sort of wacky. BTW: I suggest saying "I have BPD," rather than "I am BPD" -- it's a disorder, it's not everything that you are. You're a unique human being, not a disease. :-)

> that annoys me so much - the depression side alone gets so much stigma.

I would expect that attitude from the general public since BPD isn't very well known, but I've met a lot of mental health professionals of various sorts who have a really negative attitude towards people with BPD. They think that borderline people are "manipulative," "needy," etc., and that they don't respond to treatment or if they do, it will take years in very intensive insight-oriented therapy. I also hear a lot of claims that BPD symptoms don't respond to medication and that if a med helps then there must be some comorbid disorder (like depression, bipolar, PTSD, etc.). As a result people with BPD often get a whole pile of diagnoses (like BPD + bipolar II + OCD + PTSD + bulimia + ...), which doesn't make the outlook look any better!

> Luckily I have an online friend who is vey involved in raising the awareness of BPD and he is doin g great work.

That's terrific. I think online groups, mailing lists, etc. can be a very good support.

Take care & good luck with everything!

-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by Noa on October 17, 2001, at 16:45:10

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds NikkiT2, posted by Elizabeth on October 16, 2001, at 18:02:48

The way I think about meds for BPD, which is, as you know, a somewhat broadly defined dx, is to treat symptoms, which vary from person to person. The CBT talk therapy can help a lot, but if your pdoc is also open to medications, perhaps you can identify which of your symptoms is/are most bothersome and go after those with the medication, while you do the cognitive work at the same time.

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by PattyG on October 18, 2001, at 8:56:26

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth, posted by NikkiT2 on October 16, 2001, at 14:39:50

Luckily I have an online friend who is vey involved in raising the awareness of BPD and he is doin g great work.

Nikki

///Is this through a public forum of sorts (online)? I would be very interested to know.
Thanks, PattyG

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki

Posted by sar on October 18, 2001, at 23:51:02

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds, posted by PattyG on October 18, 2001, at 8:56:26

months ago my psychoanalyst agreed that i met 5 or 6 or the "borderline" criteria...

about 6 months ago i started taking prozac and it really levelled me in a certain way (in addition to prozac, i've been prescribed (and needed) klonopin and neurontin)...

what is DBT?

i've read alot on borderline and feel that it's--i don't know, i just don't know if i belive in it fully. i had a hardliner mexican pdoc who'd grown up in the ghetto and laughed that "half of all white girls are borderline"--which to me signalled how lighthearted he was about pyschiatry; he'd been educated at Harvard but took neither himself nor his discipline too seriously...

how do you feel about the diagnosis of Borderline vs. Bipolar?

i feel as if they're both just labels--bipolars are a little bit more loveable than "borderlines"--oh, it just seems so sunjective...have you read *Walking on Eggshells* and *I Hate You, Don't Leave Me"?

just my own personal experience--i worked in a bookstore for a few months and we sold the borderline books like hotcakes. they'd become mass-market paperbacks. most of the bipolar books seemed to be purchased much less frequently, and remained in qyality paperback.

just the observance of a menial bookstore worker, nothing scientific.

love,
sar

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki sar

Posted by NikkiT2 on October 19, 2001, at 11:49:58

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki, posted by sar on October 18, 2001, at 23:51:02

It seems to have become a bit of a cop out diagnoses in the US, I believe the criteria to be slightly different in the UK and it is a much more stigmatised illness... Bipolar seems to be Ok and accepotable, but BPD, being a personality disorder is feared... plus many people think the borderline means its only " a bit, and there fore not worthwhile".

DBT is Dialectical behaviour Therapy,similar to CBT. It seems to be very succesful in the BPD's I know who have undergone it, more succesful than CBT.

A friends website has a very good description of it all, and can be found at

http://www.gloomywood.freeserve.co.uk/index.htm

Its also an excellent site ofr anyone looking for info on BPD in easy to red english!! :o)

Nikki

> months ago my psychoanalyst agreed that i met 5 or 6 or the "borderline" criteria...
>
> about 6 months ago i started taking prozac and it really levelled me in a certain way (in addition to prozac, i've been prescribed (and needed) klonopin and neurontin)...
>
> what is DBT?
>
> i've read alot on borderline and feel that it's--i don't know, i just don't know if i belive in it fully. i had a hardliner mexican pdoc who'd grown up in the ghetto and laughed that "half of all white girls are borderline"--which to me signalled how lighthearted he was about pyschiatry; he'd been educated at Harvard but took neither himself nor his discipline too seriously...
>
> how do you feel about the diagnosis of Borderline vs. Bipolar?
>
> i feel as if they're both just labels--bipolars are a little bit more loveable than "borderlines"--oh, it just seems so sunjective...have you read *Walking on Eggshells* and *I Hate You, Don't Leave Me"?
>
> just my own personal experience--i worked in a bookstore for a few months and we sold the borderline books like hotcakes. they'd become mass-market paperbacks. most of the bipolar books seemed to be purchased much less frequently, and remained in qyality paperback.
>
> just the observance of a menial bookstore worker, nothing scientific.
>
> love,
> sar

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds PattyG

Posted by NikkiT2 on October 19, 2001, at 11:52:03

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds, posted by PattyG on October 18, 2001, at 8:56:26

Hi patti.

The group I am invlolved in is a UK based one, Borderline UK. We have a Yahho Group (kind of forum thing) for people in the UK.

We will shortly be launching with a new, wonderful website which will hopefully contain information thatg is useful the world over, and we are trying to get links with similar groups abroad.

let me know if you would like to have the qddress of the Yahho Group.

Nikki

> Luckily I have an online friend who is vey involved in raising the awareness of BPD and he is doin g great work.
>
> Nikki
>
> ///Is this through a public forum of sorts (online)? I would be very interested to know.
> Thanks, PattyG

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki sar

Posted by Elizabeth on October 19, 2001, at 12:24:48

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki, posted by sar on October 18, 2001, at 23:51:02

> i had a hardliner mexican pdoc who'd grown up in the ghetto and laughed that "half of all white girls are borderline"--which to me signalled how lighthearted he was about pyschiatry; he'd been educated at Harvard but took neither himself nor his discipline too seriously...

I think there are a lot of psychiatrists at Harvard who are like that -- they make jokes that could be "offensive" to people who take things too seriously :-). (I liked said jokes.) I've never encountered a non-Harvard psychiatrist who didn't have that kind of sense of humour. Weird, eh?

-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki

Posted by PattyG on October 20, 2001, at 19:37:14

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki, posted by sar on October 18, 2001, at 23:51:02

sar wrote:

i've read alot on borderline and feel that it's--i don't know, i just don't know if i belive in it fully. i had a hardliner
mexican pdoc who'd grown up in the ghetto and laughed that "half of all white girls are borderline"--which to me signalled how lighthearted he was about pyschiatry; he'd been educated at Harvard but took neither himself nor his discipline too seriously...

//////I would find that remark to be rather chauvinistic, to say the least. Not to mention rude!

how do you feel about the diagnosis of Borderline vs. Bipolar?
i feel as if they're both just labels--bipolars are a little bit more loveable than "borderlines"--oh, it just seems so sunjective...have you read *Walking on Eggshells* and *I Hate You, Don't Leave Me"?

//////I feel they're just diagnoses and if one suffers from either or both, it's through no fault of their own. I know there is quite a bit of stigma with Borderlines, but I've found quite a few of them to be very lovable:) I have read both books you mentioned - they're both good.

just the observance of a menial bookstore worker, nothing scientific.

////Thanks for sharing:)

PattyG

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by PattyG on October 20, 2001, at 19:43:15

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds PattyG, posted by NikkiT2 on October 19, 2001, at 11:52:03

Nikki wrote:

The group I am invlolved in is a UK based one, Borderline UK. We have a Yahho Group (kind of forum thing) for people in the UK.

We will shortly be launching with a new, wonderful website which will hopefully contain information thatg is useful the world over, and we are trying to get links with similar groups abroad.

let me know if you would like to have the qddress of the Yahho Group.

/////Yes, please - I would be most interested. Thank you!

PattyG

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth

Posted by sar on October 21, 2001, at 13:36:58

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds..nikki sar, posted by Elizabeth on October 19, 2001, at 12:24:48


> I think there are a lot of psychiatrists at Harvard who are like that -- they make jokes that could be "offensive" to people who take things too seriously :-). (I liked said jokes.) I've never encountered a non-Harvard psychiatrist who didn't have that kind of sense of humour. Weird, eh?
>
> -elizabeth

i agree with you. the guy is a top pdoc here, funny as hell...what fluid labels...he dx'd me borderline, histrionic, and bipolar II, and said that the prevailing dx would be bipolar II because i'm "good company." he grinned.

i don't think i would have let another doc give me all those dx's without putting up a fight.

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar

Posted by Elizabeth on October 22, 2001, at 10:30:33

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth, posted by sar on October 21, 2001, at 13:36:58

> i agree with you. the guy is a top pdoc here, funny as hell...what fluid labels...he dx'd me borderline, histrionic, and bipolar II, and said that the prevailing dx would be bipolar II because i'm "good company." he grinned.

It's funny to joke about it, but when you consider that a lot of doctors are going around giving patients diagnoses based on whether they like them or not, it becomes clear that there's a serious problem with the system. (Although I have to admit that a lot of bipolar II folks are, indeed, good company, some of them aren't; that doesn't mean that they're bad people or that their illness is their fault or that they don't "really" have bipolar disorder at all.)

I have to admit I'm sort of curious who your doctor is. Is he actually affiliated with HMS, or did he just go to school there?

-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth

Posted by sar on October 22, 2001, at 11:20:47

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar, posted by Elizabeth on October 22, 2001, at 10:30:33


> It's funny to joke about it, but when you consider that a lot of doctors are going around giving patients diagnoses based on whether they like them or not, it becomes clear that there's a serious problem with the system.

Well, that's what my psychoanayst said a few months ago. She hesitated to dx me "borderline" because that label is often reserved for patients that the docs just can't get along with or understand.

(Although I have to admit that a lot of bipolar II folks are, indeed, good company, some of them aren't; that doesn't mean that they're bad people or that their illness is their fault or that they don't "really" have bipolar disorder at all.)

Right, right, i don't necessarily know whether i'm good company or not, i think the implication was that the borderline label carries such stigma.


> I have to admit I'm sort of curious who your doctor is. Is he actually affiliated with HMS, or did he just go to school there?

Oh, i think he just went to school there. Robert Jimenez is his name.

i don't necessarily agree with his hasty diagnoses; by our second meeting he'd given me 3 pretty extreme ones (and i'm a pretty mellow, soft-spoken, polite person). you think something's amiss?

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar

Posted by Elizabeth on October 22, 2001, at 12:08:33

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth, posted by sar on October 22, 2001, at 11:20:47

> Well, that's what my psychoanayst said a few months ago. She hesitated to dx me "borderline" because that label is often reserved for patients that the docs just can't get along with or understand.

She's right, it is.

> Oh, i think he just went to school there. Robert Jimenez is his name.

Are you in the Boston area?

> i don't necessarily agree with his hasty diagnoses; by our second meeting he'd given me 3 pretty extreme ones (and i'm a pretty mellow, soft-spoken, polite person). you think something's amiss?

I think that diagnoses are just labels, and it sounds like your pdoc knows this. So you don't need to take a psychiatric diagnosis too seriously (and doing so might really be harmful to your self-esteem, so I'd advise against it!).

-elizabeth

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth

Posted by sar on October 22, 2001, at 17:18:52

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds sar, posted by Elizabeth on October 22, 2001, at 12:08:33

> > Well, that's what my psychoanayst said a few months ago. She hesitated to dx me "borderline" because that label is often reserved for patients that the docs just can't get along with or understand.
>
> She's right, it is.


i discovered my borderline tendencies through my own research and i was actually the first one to call myself "borderline"...the books helped, and now that i'm in the process of mending my ways (who says borderlines are difficult to treat?!) i no longer consider myself such.

> > Oh, i think he just went to school there. Robert Jimenez is his name.
>
> Are you in the Boston area?

no, southwest texas...

> I think that diagnoses are just labels, and it sounds like your pdoc knows this. So you don't need to take a psychiatric diagnosis too seriously (and doing so might really be harmful to your self-esteem, so I'd advise against it!).

the borderline label hurt, the histrionic one made me laugh, and the BP II--well i now i have firstahnd knowledge that it's the meds, not the dx. which i had read many times before but could not fully understand.

having read up on all of my diagnoses has helped change my behavior, though.

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by Cecilia on October 23, 2001, at 2:32:29

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds Elizabeth, posted by sar on October 22, 2001, at 17:18:52

> > > Well, that's what my psychoanayst said a few months ago. She hesitated to dx me "borderline" because that label is often reserved for patients that the docs just can't get along with or understand.
> >
> > She's right, it is.
>
>
> i discovered my borderline tendencies through my own research and i was actually the first one to call myself "borderline"...the books helped, and now that i'm in the process of mending my ways (who says borderlines are difficult to treat?!) i no longer consider myself such.
>
> > > Oh, i think he just went to school there. Robert Jimenez is his name.
> >
> > Are you in the Boston area?
>
> no, southwest texas...
>
> > I think that diagnoses are just labels, and it sounds like your pdoc knows this. So you don't need to take a psychiatric diagnosis too seriously (and doing so might really be harmful to your self-esteem, so I'd advise against it!).
>
> the borderline label hurt, the histrionic one made me laugh, and the BP II--well i now i have firstahnd knowledge that it's the meds, not the dx. which i had read many times before but could not fully understand.
>
> having read up on all of my diagnoses has helped change my behavior, though.

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder- I read somewhere that the way a lot of doctors and therapists make this diagnosis is basically: Why isn`t Ms. X getting better? Because she`s a borderline. How do you know she`s a borderline? Because she isn`t getting better.

 

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds

Posted by PattyG on October 23, 2001, at 11:35:13

In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder Meds, posted by Cecilia on October 23, 2001, at 2:32:29

Posted by Cecilia on October 23, 2001, at 2:32:29

Re: Borderline Personality Disorder- I read somewhere that the way a lot of doctors and therapists make this
diagnosis is basically: Why isn`t Ms. X getting better? Because she`s a borderline. How do you know she`s a borderline? Because she isn`t getting better.

////Well, personally, I guess I think the same could be said about a lot of Schizophrenics, and those with Bipolar Mood Disorder............and what about the Narcissists and those with Anti Social Personality Disorder? Heck, I don't think the above criteria can be reserved for *only* those rascals, the Borderlines!
PattyG


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