Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 27849

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L-Tyrosine? 5HTP? L-Tryptophan?

Posted by KarenB on March 22, 2000, at 11:50:53

Does anyone have any positive experience with these natural alternatives? If so, please list your symptoms, how much you took, etc. Or, if you have read anything informative, please share it.

Also, isn't St.John's Wort effective for those who do well on SSRIs, rather than those with a Dopamine receptor malfunction?

Thanks!

Karen

 

Negative Experiences with Tyrosine

Posted by Mark H. on March 22, 2000, at 18:22:08

In reply to L-Tyrosine? 5HTP? L-Tryptophan?, posted by KarenB on March 22, 2000, at 11:50:53

My doctor recommended supplementation with l-tyrosine a few years ago, and I had a very strange reaction. After a few days, I started having unbelievably violent and totally uncontrollable fantasies of people being maimed and killed in the most awful circumstances. It was bizarre, like a war movie going on inside my head that I could not turn off! After stopping supplementation with this amino acid, the symptoms disappeared.

As a result, I did quite a bit of research and found that the military, bless their hearts, had experimented with l-tyrosine on soldiers in battle, ostensibly to fight "fatigue." A bit of reading between the lines suggested it was more likely used to see if it would increase aggressiveness, stamina and the willingness to kill.

I personally know of only one other man locally who experienced a similar reaction -- in his case, an uncharacteristic and extremely strong desire to kill someone who had mildly insulted him at a dance, of all things -- but my doctor has since reported that she's had other people admit to similar reactions.

My wife Sue used to take l-tyrosine supplementation during tax season for the extremely long hours she would put in as an accountant, and I don't think she ever had a disturbing thought. However, after a couple of months of such supplementation, she did tend to become very "hard" and uncharacteristically unsympathetic towards others. She eventually decided for herself that l-tyrosine, while not turning her into a homicidal maniac, was changing her personality in a way that was not worth the small amount of extra energy and stamina that it gave her.

As Cam W. wisely pointed out to me, such anecdotal evidence based on a small number of experiences should not be generalized to be true for everyone. However, I offer this caution because, at least for me, the effects of l-tyrosine were serious and problematic.

 

Re: MarkH - Tyrosine

Posted by KarenB on March 22, 2000, at 18:44:10

In reply to Negative Experiences with Tyrosine, posted by Mark H. on March 22, 2000, at 18:22:08

Dear Mark,

Thank you for your post.

I am wondering, do you have extreme fatigue associated with depression? Are you bipolar? And finally, do you remember how many mg. you were taking per day?

Thanks!

Karen

 

Re: MarkH - Tyrosine

Posted by Mark H. on March 22, 2000, at 19:55:37

In reply to Re: MarkH - Tyrosine, posted by KarenB on March 22, 2000, at 18:44:10

Dear Karen,

Yes, I have extreme fatigue associated with my depression. I sleep 11 to 12 hours a night, and 14 hours or more a night on weekends. I recently had to go from 10 or 20 mg of methylphenidate a day to 60 mg a day to stay awake. I fell back asleep after taking 40 mg this morning. Considering that a few years ago, 2.5mg would keep me alert all day, it's a little discouraging, but at other times of the year, I can look forward to needing little or no ritalin at all to stay awake. It changes with my cycle. I also take 25mcg of Cytomel a day, as well as 5mg of Pindolol (a beta-blocker) for the adrenaline and 150mg of Effexor with breakfast. The combo has been a true job-saver and life-saver for me.

I become overwhelmingly sleepy in warm climates. If the temperature reaches 80 degrees, I'm a goner. Sue and I had to buy a new car last fall with air-conditioning for the first time in our lives. We've lived on the cool coast for the past 30 years and I can no longer handle the heat when we head inland.

And yes, I'm Bipolar II, which I like to say means I have limitless black hole depression relieved by periods of hypomania marked by delusions of adequacy. Joking aside, I enjoy hypomania and used to think it was the only "me" that counted. Janice said it SO BEAUTIFULLY in another post earlier today, "I used to think hypomania was real and the other was the flu."

My cycle is roughly twice a year. I am good in late November, December and part of January. I head down in Feb and usually feel awful in March. I feel good again by May and June, then slide towards a low at the end of August and September. My doc and I agree that the cyclicity of the depression is the primary identifying feature; Bipolar II is just the closest current approximation. Occasionally I can "force" hypomania for a short period of time, but it's not reliable.

The amount of l-tyrosine I took was unremarkable -- whatever the normal health-food store dose would be, one capsule a day only. I never pushed the dosage up, and the effects came on subtly enough that I didn't suspect the cause at first. I have a high degree of self-control, but I could see how l-tyrosine could be used or misused literally to push someone over the edge who had poor control and a history of acting out aggression.

Good luck and very best wishes, Mark H.

 

Re: MarkH - Tyrosine

Posted by Ant-Rock on March 23, 2000, at 8:04:12

In reply to Re: MarkH - Tyrosine, posted by Mark H. on March 22, 2000, at 19:55:37


"as well as 5mg of Pindolol (a beta-blocker) for the adrenaline"

--Hi Mark,
I was wondering if you could explain to me how Pindolol helps with adrenaline. I have adrenal insufficiency, and am trying different approaches to alleviate symptoms.
Thank you in advance,
Anthony

 

Re: MarkH- Tyrosine

Posted by AndrewB on March 23, 2000, at 13:06:26

In reply to Re: MarkH - Tyrosine, posted by KarenB on March 22, 2000, at 18:44:10

MarkH,

Tyrosine supplementation didn't make me more aggressive, at least I wasn't aware of any changes. However it is clear that tyrosine supplementation can cause increased aggression in some people. Perhaps this is due to tyrosine competing with tryptophan to cross the blood brain barrier. The result of increased tyrosine in the diet can be less tryptophan gets to the brain. Tryptophan is the amino acid precursor to serotonin. Decreased trytophan has been associated with increased aggression.

Mark (or anyone else for that matter), can you tell me why some people with bipolar don't take mood stabilizers. Is it that they don't work for all bipolars or the side effects or what. Does being bipolar mean that your ADs won't work normally unless you are taking mood stabilizers. For example, how common is it that a person with bipolar will have AD poop out or have the AD induced mania becuase they aren' also taking a mood stabilizer.

AndrewB

 

Re: AntRock

Posted by AndrewB on March 23, 2000, at 14:25:19

In reply to Re: MarkH - Tyrosine, posted by Ant-Rock on March 23, 2000, at 8:04:12

Anthony,

How is it going. How is the ritalin. Any difference. Have you started the amisulpride yet?

 

Re: Andrew and Ant-Rock

Posted by Mark H. on March 23, 2000, at 16:47:30

In reply to Re: MarkH- Tyrosine, posted by AndrewB on March 23, 2000, at 13:06:26

Anthony, the beta-blocker is to help blunt the effects of my body producing too much adrenaline.

I don't know the answer to your quesiton, Andrew. I tried a number of mood stabilizers as adjunctives to anti-depressants and just felt worse on them.

Sorry I don't have more information for you.

 

Re: AntRock :AndrewB

Posted by Ant-Rock on March 23, 2000, at 20:02:18

In reply to Re: AntRock, posted by AndrewB on March 23, 2000, at 14:25:19

> Anthony,
>
> How is it going. How is the ritalin. Any difference. Have you started the amisulpride yet?

Thank you for asking Andrew. Been on 10mg Ritalin for 8 days. Today was my 5th day on 50mg Amisulpride, and have noticed a real difference. Much more able to function mentally, and feeling a bit more stronger(physically) each day. I sure hope the improvement keeps heading in this direction. Certainly not where I want to be, but better than I was last week at this time so I should be greatful.
It's tough to feel good about small improvements when your struggling back from so far down and so much further ahead to go. This is what has been the most difficult thing for me, being happy for little steps made, when your so far from where you should or could be. Sorry if I've said more than you wanted to know, sometimes can't help rambling.(Lots of frustration built up,Ya think?).
I will keep you posted as to the ritalin/amisulpride combo.
Best wishes,
Anthony

 

Re: AntRock :

Posted by AndrewB on March 24, 2000, at 9:54:46

In reply to Re: AntRock :AndrewB, posted by Ant-Rock on March 23, 2000, at 20:02:18

> > Anthony,
> >
> > How is it going. How is the ritalin. Any difference. Have you started the amisulpride yet?
>
> Thank you for asking Andrew. Been on 10mg Ritalin for 8 days. Today was my 5th day on 50mg Amisulpride, and have noticed a real difference. Much more able to function mentally, and feeling a bit more stronger(physically) each day. I sure hope the improvement keeps heading in this direction. Certainly not where I want to be, but better than I was last week at this time so I should be greatful.
> It's tough to feel good about small improvements when your struggling back from so far down and so much further ahead to go. This is what has been the most difficult thing for me, being happy for little steps made, when your so far from where you should or could be. Sorry if I've said more than you wanted to know, sometimes can't help rambling.(Lots of frustration built up,Ya think?).
> I will keep you posted as to the ritalin/amisulpride combo.
> Best wishes,
> Anthony
>


Anthony,

Thanks for the update on your amisulpride and ritalin combo. I'm glad you are experiencing a positive response but I know how an incomplete response can be frustrating. (Really tired is better than really, really tired but nothing to start a parade over!)

Hopefully your response will improve with time. It is quite possible you will get a better response by increasing the amisulpride dose to 100mgs.

It is important to determine what benefits and side effects the ritalin and amisulpride are contributing individually to you. You may want to try day a or two without the ritalin, being on the amisulpride by itself.

Wishing the best of luck,

AndrewB

 

Re: L-Tyrosine? 5HTP? L-Tryptophan? ANYONE?

Posted by KarenB on March 28, 2000, at 11:36:40

In reply to L-Tyrosine? 5HTP? L-Tryptophan?, posted by KarenB on March 22, 2000, at 11:50:53

> Does anyone have any positive experience with these natural alternatives? If so, please list your symptoms, how much you took, etc. Or, if you have read anything informative, please share it.
>
> Also, isn't St.John's Wort effective for those who do well on SSRIs, rather than those with a Dopamine receptor malfunction?


Does anyone have any experience with this, besides MarkH? (Thanks, Mark!)

Karen

 

Re: L-Tyrosine? 5HTP? L-Tryptophan?

Posted by A. on March 28, 2000, at 16:58:39

In reply to L-Tyrosine? 5HTP? L-Tryptophan?, posted by KarenB on March 22, 2000, at 11:50:53

> Does anyone have any positive experience with these natural alternatives? If so, please list your symptoms, how much you took, etc. Or, if you have read anything informative, please share it.

I have had incredible positive effects from 5-HTP. When taking 2 50mg pills a night, my mood is just sky high. I also take vitamin B6, as that is a catalyst for converting 5-HTP into 5-HT (serotonin).

I love 5-HTP - no side effects, unless I take too much every day (taking 3-4 pills a day leads to random anxiety attacks -- anxiety is often from too much serotonin in the brain). But 2 is just fine. Too bad it is expensive where I live - the price just went up from $20 to $27 per bottle of 30 pills.

 

Re: L-Tyrosine? 5HTP? L-Tryptophan? ANYONE?

Posted by JB on March 28, 2000, at 19:44:07

In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine? 5HTP? L-Tryptophan? ANYONE?, posted by KarenB on March 28, 2000, at 11:36:40

I'm taking Remeron, Wellbutrin, and Adderall.
I decided to try tyrosine, 1-2gm and 5-HTP, 50mg
twice a day. It's only been 3 days, so I don't
know if the effects will last, but I'm getting a
lot more done and feel more energetic. My
main point, though, is that I could not get
an erection, even with Viagra. If I skip the
5-HTP in the morning, and only take it after
sex, there is no problem. I take this as a positive
sign that the 5-HTP is being converted to serotonin.

 

Re: L-Tyrosine? 5HTP? L-Tryptophan? ANYONE?

Posted by Brandon on March 28, 2000, at 20:59:07

In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine? 5HTP? L-Tryptophan? ANYONE?, posted by JB on March 28, 2000, at 19:44:07

Karen,

I was on a brief stint (1mo.) of Tyrosine (4,000mgs.) and 5htp (100mgs.) with very good results. Unfortunately the Tyrosine pooped out which I've read it can do and I could not afford to take more. It's too bad, the mood effects were great for me.

Brandon

 

Re: AntRock :AndrewB

Posted by DC on March 29, 2000, at 1:06:40

In reply to Re: AntRock :AndrewB, posted by Ant-Rock on March 23, 2000, at 20:02:18

You wrote: "It's tough to feel good about small improvements when your struggling back from so far down and so much further ahead to go. This is what has been the most difficult thing for me, being happy for little steps made, when your so far from where you should or could be. Sorry if I've said more than you wanted to know, sometimes can't help rambling"

>It's hard when you aren't making much progress. But I've always felt more motivation to pull myself out of my worst depressions. When I reach the bottom something motivates to do something; I start getting nervous; Whereas when I'm just sort of blah I don't feel motivated to do anything. Sometimes an honest-to-goodness freak-out is like a good kick in the pants. Am I making any sense at all?

 

Re: DC

Posted by Ant-Rock on March 29, 2000, at 8:12:59

In reply to Re: AntRock :AndrewB, posted by DC on March 29, 2000, at 1:06:40

> >It's hard when you aren't making much progress. But I've always felt more motivation to pull myself out of my worst depressions. When I reach the bottom something motivates to do something; I start getting nervous; Whereas when I'm just sort of blah I don't feel motivated to do anything. Sometimes an honest-to-goodness freak-out is like a good kick in the pants. Am I making any sense at all?

~Actually DC,
What you stated makes a lot of sense. I used to get that same "rock-bottom" sense of desperation/urgency to make a change, or try a different approach. Almost like a survival mechanism that prevents one from shriveling up in a corner.
To be honest though, the anhedonia/fatigue thats been so prevalent for so long has taken away the ability to "feel" this sense of nervous, positive energy you speak of. Hopefully the dopamine oriented meds I am trying now, will give me a taste of "aliveness", and will ignite a spark to "feel" that something which gives "you" that same motivation.
Thank you DC for sharing your thoughts, and I sincerely appreciate your advice.

ANT-Rock

 

Re: AntRock

Posted by AndrewB on March 29, 2000, at 9:24:41

In reply to Re: DC, posted by Ant-Rock on March 29, 2000, at 8:12:59

How are you feeling. I hope you are feeling better. Let me know.

AndrewB

 

Re: AntRock

Posted by Ant-Rock on March 29, 2000, at 18:50:42

In reply to Re: AntRock, posted by AndrewB on March 29, 2000, at 9:24:41

> How are you feeling. I hope you are feeling better. Let me know.
>
> AndrewB
~Hi Andrew,
energy is a little better,I think I'm on to something with this licorice-cortisol thing. Last Saturday morn at work actually felt really good (mood wise)and was even enjoying the music on the radio. This may not sound like a big deal, but it has been a long time since music has had a positive effect on me. Unfortunately, this feeling slowly wore off, but at least I know it can be attained!
I'm having serious trouble trying to study,concentrate. This condition just wipes out the ability to "care", or receive some "meaning" from anything.(Am I making sense?)
I'm considering either increasing Ritalin(from10mg/day) , or upping the Amisulpride to 100mg as you suggested, but I definitely can't stay like this. I would love to be able to go back and finish college. I know we shouldn't base our self worth on our ability to be productive or have a degree and such, but basically these things(unjustly) wear on oneself after a while.
Anyway, as always thank you for your concern. By the way, How are YOU doing?

Ant-Rock

 

Re: AntRock

Posted by AndrewB on March 30, 2000, at 10:58:30

In reply to Re: AntRock, posted by Ant-Rock on March 29, 2000, at 18:50:42

Anthony,

I tried that licorice, it made me real tired. My legs felt rubbery. So I guess my cortisol is not too low? Hope you get benefit from it. Just keep on doing what you are doing, trying different things. If you keep on trying, you'll probably find some way to get your energy back, I did. But I have a box of supplements and medicines that didn't work that I had to go through first. Make sure to give everything a fair trial and try not to take too many things at once. All the combinations can obscure whether something is helping you or not. If nothing your taking now works out, reboxetine might be something to try in the future. Myself and others have found it quite energizing and good for concentration.

How am I? I've been depressed and irritable the last couple of days. It is because Iíve taken a four day break from amisulpride (and Mirapex). I am trying to see if occasional drug holidays from the amisulpride make it work better. Anyway, it didn't take long after I quit it to feel down again. The bad feelings all come rushing back; feelings of gloom, feelings of being bad, being worthless, of being overwhelmed, of being stuck, of being broken, fragile and so hateful. It is like my positive attitude and world view, my motivation and caring were stripped away from me. Very harsh. I hate being so chemically dependent on ADs. On the other hand, God bless the chemicals. Maybe life is a chemical illusion and technology is bringing on an age where we may choose our illusion. Possibly though there are broader truths in life that depression seperates us from, makes us deaf to, and ADs have the potential to bring us back to a point of communication with this larger world.

I certainly can relate to your feelings of being unable to concentrate or care or see meaning in anything at times. When depressed I often feel like I am in an existentialist funk. 'What does anything matter?' I think. I just go from on crises to boredom to another crises. I feel numb. It takes energy to care, it takes something positive to look forward to to care, it takes a mind that is not depressed to care. My depression doesnít even allow me to care about myself or even like myself. It doesnít matter what I do, what I accomplish....the effort of doing anything only makes me more tired and more depressed. In my tiredness, I canít concentrate. My mind wanders amongst worrying and escapist daydreaming.

Anyway, that is the Ďboatí Iím in when Iím depressed. I hope that this message reminds you that there are others who feel like you do at times. I feel lucky though in having found a way out of depression (that works at least for now). Iím ready to use amisulpride again as a lifeboat and hopefully get away from this mess. I wish you the best in your search for an medicine that works. I believe you will succeed.

AndrewB


 

Andrew

Posted by michael on March 31, 2000, at 17:27:12

In reply to Re: AntRock, posted by AndrewB on March 30, 2000, at 10:58:30

> Anthony,
>
> I tried that licorice, it made me real tired. My legs felt rubbery. So I guess my cortisol is not too low? Hope you get benefit from it. Just keep on doing what you are doing, trying different things. If you keep on trying, you'll probably find some way to get your energy back, I did. But I have a box of supplements and medicines that didn't work that I had to go through first. Make sure to give everything a fair trial and try not to take too many things at once. All the combinations can obscure whether something is helping you or not. If nothing your taking now works out, reboxetine might be something to try in the future. Myself and others have found it quite energizing and good for concentration.
>
> How am I? I've been depressed and irritable the last couple of days. It is because Iíve taken a four day break from amisulpride (and Mirapex). I am trying to see if occasional drug holidays from the amisulpride make it work better. Anyway, it didn't take long after I quit it to feel down again. The bad feelings all come rushing back; feelings of gloom, feelings of being bad, being worthless, of being overwhelmed, of being stuck, of being broken, fragile and so hateful. It is like my positive attitude and world view, my motivation and caring were stripped away from me. Very harsh. I hate being so chemically dependent on ADs. On the other hand, God bless the chemicals. Maybe life is a chemical illusion and technology is bringing on an age where we may choose our illusion. Possibly though there are broader truths in life that depression seperates us from, makes us deaf to, and ADs have the potential to bring us back to a point of communication with this larger world.
>
> I certainly can relate to your feelings of being unable to concentrate or care or see meaning in anything at times. When depressed I often feel like I am in an existentialist funk. 'What does anything matter?' I think. I just go from on crises to boredom to another crises. I feel numb. It takes energy to care, it takes something positive to look forward to to care, it takes a mind that is not depressed to care. My depression doesnít even allow me to care about myself or even like myself. It doesnít matter what I do, what I accomplish....the effort of doing anything only makes me more tired and more depressed. In my tiredness, I canít concentrate. My mind wanders amongst worrying and escapist daydreaming.
>
> Anyway, that is the Ďboatí Iím in when Iím depressed. I hope that this message reminds you that there are others who feel like you do at times. I feel lucky though in having found a way out of depression (that works at least for now). Iím ready to use amisulpride again as a lifeboat and hopefully get away from this mess. I wish you the best in your search for an medicine that works. I believe you will succeed.
>
> AndrewB


Hi Andrew -

Sounds like a drag - and kind of familiar....

Just wondering what your thoughts are regarding the reboxetine... or are you on "holiday" from that too? I didn't get the impression it was doing much for you from your last msg...? Just wondering,
michael

 

Feeling Good and Weight Loss (amino acids)

Posted by Natalie on January 17, 2001, at 15:14:09

In reply to L-Tyrosine? 5HTP? L-Tryptophan?, posted by KarenB on March 22, 2000, at 11:50:53

Hi,
In the past, I have tried St-John's Wort and 5-HTP for a year each (separately) with NO results. I started to believe that those herbals pills just don't work at all on me. I just do not want to give up on finding a natural cure for my mood and weight loss, so I am trying amino acids now. L-Phenylalanine and L-Tyrosine. I have read about those two on several articles online. So, I am willing to give them a try. I started yesterday taking:

L-Phenylalanine 500mg one before breakfast and lunch

L-Tyrosine 500mg two before breakfast and lunch

Vitamin B-6 100mg a day

Vitamin C 1000mg a day

along with my regular vits: multi-vitamin, Vit-E 400mg, Vit-B complex, Folic Acid 1000mg and...

... I am also experimenting on taking Weider's Fat Burners two tablets before breakfast and lunch (which contains chronium picolinate to burn fat)

I am also doing exercises, 3 times a week (I climb stairs outside a football stadium for about 40 minutes)

There you go, this is another attempt for me. I pray to God that it will work this time! I intend to keep you all posted on how I am doing.

Talk to you all soon!

Natalie


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