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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Paulbwell on May 24, 2006, at 23:42:55
I can't seem to go more than a week before a trip down the drink store is in order.
I have, and have had GAD for years, and take
-Ritalin scripted 70mgs
-Valium scripted 10mgs
-Prozac scripted 10mgsBut the booze works best, often, Cider, or Vodka mixes.
I think i need to see my specialist again?
Cheers
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 25, 2006, at 7:15:13
In reply to Demon Alcohol-(live for it), posted by Paulbwell on May 24, 2006, at 23:42:55
> I can't seem to go more than a week before a trip down the drink store is in order.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but there is a simple substance that is healthy to take. A nutrient. An essential nutrient. And it might help you get past that limit.
It's called taurine. It's an irregular amino acid, synthesized in your body from methionine. Well, it's supposed to be, if you listen to the medical dogma. I bet you there isn't an alcoholic in the world that has retained any significant capacity to synthesize it, however.
Anyway, taurine is very similar in function to GABA, in the brain. Unlike GABA, however, taurine readily crosses the blood/brain barrier. Because of that, an oral dose very quickly has an effect. Minutes.
And what it does is it shuts down the craving, to some extent. I will not make exaggerated promises. But you can safely try even fairly large doses.
It is pleasant tasting, easily dissolves in water, and is almost dirt cheap, as amino acid prices go. I bought 300 grams bulk powder for something like 12 bucks. You get it at shops that sell all that body-builder protein powder stuff. Or decent health food stores.
You can take anywhere from 500 mg to 12 grams, in a single dose. There are no known adverse effects from using it, except for insomnia. A larger dose, or a dose late in the day, may prevent you from going to sleep. Taurine and melatonin share some binding sites, so I wouldn't be surprised if taurine antagonizes melatonin.
Further questions welcomed.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 25, 2006, at 7:50:55
In reply to Re: Demon Alcohol-(live for it) » Paulbwell, posted by Larry Hoover on May 25, 2006, at 7:15:13
> It is pleasant tasting, easily dissolves in water, and is almost dirt cheap, as amino acid prices go. I bought 300 grams bulk powder for something like 12 bucks.
300 grams is almost exactly 2/3 of a pound.
You can convert a weight of taurine to a volume of taurine, in the following manner.
Put your bulk sample into a measuring cup, and get it settled right down to the smallest volume. That measurement will allow you determine how much weight would go into one teaspoon of the product you have purchased.
E.g. Let's say my 300 gram bottle of powder filled the measuring cup up to the 2 cup mark. That's all you need, to do the following:
First, convert the number of cups you just discovered to teaspoons. There are 48 teaspoons per cup (US), or, if measured in metric, 5 mL per teaspoon.
My example gives 2 cups times 48 teaspoons per cup, equals 96 teaspoons. (note: the cups cancel out of the equation)
Divide the weight of the powder by the teaspoon count.
Using my example, 300 grams has a volume of 2 cups = 96 teaspoons, you'll get:
300 grams divided by 96 teaspoons yields 3 1/8 (3.125) grams per teaspoon.
I usually dose at around 2 grams, so a healthy half teaspoon of that powder would do the trick. I've bought really fluffy crystals of taurine, and really dense heavy ones, from different suppliers. One product measured out to about a half teaspoon per dose, and another measured out to two teaspoons per dose. You have to do the math. Sorry.
Lar
Posted by Paulbwell on May 26, 2006, at 0:07:57
In reply to bulk taurine, converting to teaspoon measure, posted by Larry Hoover on May 25, 2006, at 7:50:55
Hi
Thanks,
Does it REALLY work for Alcohol/anxiety cravings?
I know i must have a biochemical issue-i'm near 6ft tall and weigh 63kgs!
Thanks
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2006, at 7:48:09
In reply to Larry?, posted by Paulbwell on May 26, 2006, at 0:07:57
> Hi
>
> Thanks,
>
> Does it REALLY work for Alcohol/anxiety cravings?
>
> I know i must have a biochemical issue-i'm near 6ft tall and weigh 63kgs!
>
> ThanksIt will work for some people, like a magic wand has been waved over them. It will make some other people lose their edginess. It will make other people frustrated, that nothing happened.
I have a theory, a hunch more like, that people who get "Chinese food syndrome" may be the ones it works for. If you are sensitive to MSG, you may be magically responsive to taurine? I don't know. I would love to do the research. I really would. Double blind. Secondary measures.
I don't mean to steer anyone away, if they do not get MSG reactions. No. It is a hunch, only.
Until that comes to pass, until simple research can be conducted, all I can give you is a hunch. A hopeful hunch.
Lar
Posted by curtm on May 26, 2006, at 15:36:58
In reply to Re: Larry? » Paulbwell, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2006, at 7:48:09
The magic wand works for me.
Now you see it...
Ptssssst!!! glug glug glug
Now you don't!Happy Memorial Day!
Posted by Paulbwell on June 2, 2006, at 2:37:19
In reply to Re: Larry? » Paulbwell, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2006, at 7:48:09
> > Hi
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Does it REALLY work for Alcohol/anxiety cravings?
> >
> > I know i must have a biochemical issue-i'm near 6ft tall and weigh 63kgs!
> >
> > Thanks
>
> It will work for some people, like a magic wand has been waved over them. It will make some other people lose their edginess. It will make other people frustrated, that nothing happened.
>
> I have a theory, a hunch more like, that people who get "Chinese food syndrome" may be the ones it works for. If you are sensitive to MSG, you may be magically responsive to taurine? I don't know. I would love to do the research. I really would. Double blind. Secondary measures.
>
> I don't mean to steer anyone away, if they do not get MSG reactions. No. It is a hunch, only.
>
> Until that comes to pass, until simple research can be conducted, all I can give you is a hunch. A hopeful hunch.
>
> Lar
>Hi Lar,
I bought some taurine, 500mg caps, and took about 2 grams, last night, opened em' up and sprinkled em'in my mouth. No immediate, benefits-perhaps a little relaxant effect.
Took about 6 grms today, and i give it a continuing go, until i see my Doc, and we can get a handle on the anxiety issues (which 2 5mg Valiums do sh*t for)-which really are the main cause of me wanting a drink, (don't care about taste-only it's effects-funny that, aye drinkers?)-but hey, being Hospitalised, and injuring yourself from drinking (because you can't/don't won't to stop at 1 or 6 drinks is no way to go, even if i limit myself when drinking, the withdrawal, combined with (having Psych issues) is mental (literally)
It says on the bottle caution if you are taking meds-pregnant,,,wonder why?
Also, it's supposed to have sedative action, and be usefull in Epilepsy-acting as an anti-convolsent, SO WHY DO YOU SAY IT MAY CAUSE INSOMNIA?-because you MAY think it antaganising Melatonin?
Cheers
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 3, 2006, at 11:43:15
In reply to Re: Larry?-Alcohol-Taurine » Larry Hoover, posted by Paulbwell on June 2, 2006, at 2:37:19
> Hi Lar,
>
> I bought some taurine, 500mg caps, and took about 2 grams, last night, opened em' up and sprinkled em'in my mouth. No immediate, benefits-perhaps a little relaxant effect.Here's where I would get taurine: http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyInc./Amino_Acids_Single_M-Z.html
It dissolves readily in warm to hot water, and has a mild sweet taste.
You could take more than 2 grams.
This not going to be like using adrenaline (epinephrine) to treat anaphylactic shock. Or like injecting insulin to treat diabetic keto-acidosis.
This is a slow treatment, which can have some immediate effects.
It's more like the fish oil thing.
You could take up to about 10-12 grams of taurine all at once (according to the literature), without any real risk of adverse effects. Not any that I've ever heard of. [PLEASE: report adverse effects, so we can learn together. We're expanding human knowledge, at this specific threshold, right here.] You could, instead, take 2 grams, six times, over a few hours. For the immediate effect. But your brain has reuptake pumps for taurine. If it has run out of taurine, it needs prolonged exposure to some of it, just to have it to store away in the synaptic vescicles, the storage sites for neurotransmitters that are inside the neuron.
Taurine is part of a blend of neurotransmitters and neuromodulators that are released every time a neuron fires. If there is glutamate in the released blend, you can be certain that there is taurine there, too. Unless you've run out of it.
Neurons do not squirt pure *anything* into a synapse. No pure serotonin flying around. No pure dopamine. Nuh-uh.
If you've run your car out of gas, you can run it on gasoline poured down the throat of the carburetor. But you still need to get some into the tank, because you can't drive while pouring gas down the carburetor.
Long term treatment is required, to restore taurine in the brain. Immediate effects can include calmness, and an alert relaxation. Or, the loss of that edginess that can drive people to have another drink. Alcohol causes brain cells to release taurine. But, alcohol inhibits taurine synthesis. You can get into a vicious circle, no doubt. No doubt.
> Took about 6 grms today, and i give it a continuing go, until i see my Doc, and we can get a handle on the anxiety issues (which 2 5mg Valiums do sh*t for)-which really are the main cause of me wanting a drink, (don't care about taste-only it's effects-funny that, aye drinkers?)-but hey, being Hospitalised, and injuring yourself from drinking (because you can't/don't won't to stop at 1 or 6 drinks is no way to go, even if i limit myself when drinking, the withdrawal, combined with (having Psych issues) is mental (literally)
This is not a cure for alcoholism. It is a supporting augment to other treatments, which will require abstinancy to allow your body to rebalance itself again. Sometimes abstinancy is a required treatment for alcohol abuse/chronic use.
> It says on the bottle caution if you are taking meds-pregnant,,,wonder why?Lawyers. Like when you park your car, it says "not responsible for yadda yadda".
Ignore that.
> Also, it's supposed to have sedative action, and be usefull in Epilepsy-acting as an anti-convolsent, SO WHY DO YOU SAY IT MAY CAUSE INSOMNIA?-because you MAY think it antaganising Melatonin?
>
> CheersThe insomnia thing really need some context. At first, I used taurine to promote sleep. It was gorgeous and wonderful. But my brain adapted to it, and I got rebound alertness.
The brain is a mystery.
If your brain goes into rebound alertness, it is no longer useful to use taurine in the 12 hours before sleeping.
It may be a sign that the body has stored enough up, now. So that it can manage things on its own again.
You have to listen to your body. It does speak.
Lar
Posted by Paulbwell on June 16, 2006, at 15:32:11
In reply to Re: Larry?-Alcohol-Taurine » Paulbwell, posted by Larry Hoover on June 3, 2006, at 11:43:15
Hi Lar,
Thanks for your info-are you a biochemist or something?
You mentioned above about seeing Taurine used as a treatment for Bipolar-type issues? this has got to be better for someone than high dose AP use.
Comments:)
Cheers Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 19, 2006, at 9:27:44
In reply to LARRYHOOVER-Taurine+mood stabilisation? » Larry Hoover, posted by Paulbwell on June 16, 2006, at 15:32:11
> Hi Lar,
>
> Thanks for your info-are you a biochemist or something?Yes. I am also something, as well.
> You mentioned above about seeing Taurine used as a treatment for Bipolar-type issues? this has got to be better for someone than high dose AP use.
>
> Comments:)
>
> Cheers LarMy own light-bulb moment, in the context of chronic functional malnutrition, involved another person's self-treatment with magnesium taurate. It was almost exactly a decade ago, that we made first contact. He was an ultra-rapid bipolar type 1. He had mood states that lasted hours, or even less. He was ready to kill himself. No medicine had ever helped him, other than those that drugged him into a state of torpor and stupor. That was hardly a fair choice to have to make.
But somehow, in his manic ride, he found something that convinced him to take magnesium taurate. That's nothing more than a very loose salt (in the sense of molecular bonding). A chelate, more specifically.
With each dose, he got magnesium. And he got taurine. And he felt something that he never ever knew before, in his whole memory of his entire existence. He got stable. Like that! <snapping of fingers>
That's how I got interested in this whole thing. I self-medicated with alcohol. I self-medicated from the moment I got access to self-medications. Now, I got nutrients. Now, I don't have the slightest thought of self-medication.
Lar
Posted by Paulbwell on June 19, 2006, at 20:23:53
In reply to Re: LARRYHOOVER-Taurine+mood stabilisation? » Paulbwell, posted by Larry Hoover on June 19, 2006, at 9:27:44
> My own light-bulb moment, in the context of chronic functional malnutrition, involved another person's self-treatment with magnesium taurate. It was almost exactly a decade ago, that we made first contact. He was an ultra-rapid bipolar type 1. He had mood states that lasted hours, or even less. He was ready to kill himself. No medicine had ever helped him, other than those that drugged him into a state of torpor and stupor. That was hardly a fair choice to have to make.
>
> But somehow, in his manic ride, he found something that convinced him to take magnesium taurate. That's nothing more than a very loose salt (in the sense of molecular bonding). A chelate, more specifically.
>
> With each dose, he got magnesium. And he got taurine. And he felt something that he never ever knew before, in his whole memory of his entire existence. He got stable. Like that! <snapping of fingers>
>
> That's how I got interested in this whole thing. I self-medicated with alcohol. I self-medicated from the moment I got access to self-medications. Now, I got nutrients. Now, I don't have the slightest thought of self-medication.
>
> Lar
>HI YA!
Thanks for that:)
What you have posted above is i can/have identified with/experienced!-except the planning to kill myself bit, that is why i posted to you over Taurine@(Alcohol-which has placed me in trouble too often)
According to Dr Michael Colgan, Mag Aspartate is the best absorbed-far and away better than Oxide, i don't know about Mag Taurate thou-Is that Magnesium+a Taurine substrate?
It's common for Bipolars to use booze or Pot to self medicate-as you would know.
Thats ALSO HOW I GOT INTERESTED IN THIS, i drank to self medicate, and was given Risperdal (Risperidone)2mgs, now taking nutrients, So if you had a mood-swing disorder you would take Magnesium+Taurine together?
Once again thanks:)
My Degree is in arts, not Biochemistry, but have read that any effect a drug can produce or control in someone, there are nutrients that will have similar results@ of course be safer.
Cheers
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