Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 799425

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Re: Lou's reply to Dena-1stlv Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on January 27, 2008, at 16:16:56

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-1stlv, posted by Lou Pilder on January 22, 2008, at 9:43:00

I can relate to "losing my first love"... for it seems that it's far too easy to become complacent within my relationship with God, and to let other things (the tyranny of the urgent, or manmade traditions, or the pervasiveness of "group think"), replace my relationship with poor substitutions.

What is the next thing you'd want us to know, Lou?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-fondatn Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on January 28, 2008, at 9:57:13

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-1stlv Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on January 27, 2008, at 16:16:56

> I can relate to "losing my first love"... for it seems that it's far too easy to become complacent within my relationship with God, and to let other things (the tyranny of the urgent, or manmade traditions, or the pervasiveness of "group think"), replace my relationship with poor substitutions.
>
> What is the next thing you'd want us to know, Lou?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...I can relate...too easy...let other things...replace...substitutions...]
When I read the book called Revelation, it was revealed to me mysteries that were unbeknownst to me. The book has symbols that revealed to me what had happened to me in my life for the book's symbols were intertwined with what had been revealed to me in a Spiritual way.
I walked on that Sand and saw the Beast come out of the Sea. And while I was there, there was a Rider on a White Horse behind me that I saw when I fell down on the sand.
And the Sand was like fine powder and the waves of the Sea were troubled casting up deep sand and dirt. There was Rain and strong Wind beating down and there were piles of wood as far as I could see down the shore that were once houses that had fallen. I saw what looked like the remains of my House. My House had fallen onto the Sand. And then I saw the Beast come out of the Sea.
I turned to the Rider and He said to me, "Lou, rejoice when you fall, for a just-man falls 7 times and rises up again. To one's own Master, he stands or falls. When one falls, the beast will be revealed to them. For when you build your house upon the sand, the Winds and the Rain will come and beat upon the House and it will fall; and great will be the fall of it."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-fondatn Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on January 28, 2008, at 16:34:41

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-fondatn Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on January 28, 2008, at 9:57:13

So, we rejoice when we fall, but it's bad for a house to fall, due to a bad foundation?

Why do we see the beast when we fall (& this is good?), and what is the significance of the house?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-idlshart Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on January 28, 2008, at 20:56:46

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-fondatn Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on January 28, 2008, at 16:34:41

> So, we rejoice when we fall, but it's bad for a house to fall, due to a bad foundation?
>
> Why do we see the beast when we fall (& this is good?), and what is the significance of the house?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...So we rejoicw when we fall...foundation...Why do we see the beast when we fall? (& this is good?)...].
I have been writing about one falling and the falling has been revealed to me to be from one leaving their first love. This leaving their first love means that something has replaced what was first so that there is a separation between what was their first love and the new treasure in their heart which causes them to stumble. What has been revealed to me is that where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. If your first love is God, then God will be your heart, and not be behind anything else. And when those that have God as their first love leave their first love, then they set up an idol in their heart. I have not identified the beast yet, but will shortly. To a Jewish person versed in their scriptures, reading what John penned, they could understand the symbols of {leaving their first love} and the beast comming out of the sea. They could be directed after reading that passage to the book called Ezekiel in the 14th chapter, verses 7 on, as we read;
[...For anyone of the house of Israel who separates himself from me...and sets up his Idols in his Heart and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity,... >I will set my face against that man<...].( I will write further about seeing the beast come out of the sea). And then the rejoicing news from the book called Isaiah, the first chapter, verses 18 on;
[...Come, let us reason together, says the Lord; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool...].
Lou

 

Lou's reply to Dena-repntnovrcm

Posted by Lou Pilder on January 28, 2008, at 21:49:23

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-idlshart Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on January 28, 2008, at 20:56:46

> > So, we rejoice when we fall, but it's bad for a house to fall, due to a bad foundation?
> >
> > Why do we see the beast when we fall (& this is good?), and what is the significance of the house?
> >
> > Shalom, Dena
>
> Dena,
> You wrote,[...So we rejoicw when we fall...foundation...Why do we see the beast when we fall? (& this is good?)...].
> I have been writing about one falling and the falling has been revealed to me to be from one leaving their first love. This leaving their first love means that something has replaced what was first so that there is a separation between what was their first love and the new treasure in their heart which causes them to stumble. What has been revealed to me is that where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. If your first love is God, then God will be your heart, and not be behind anything else. And when those that have God as their first love leave their first love, then they set up an idol in their heart. I have not identified the beast yet, but will shortly. To a Jewish person versed in their scriptures, reading what John penned, they could understand the symbols of {leaving their first love} and the beast comming out of the sea. They could be directed after reading that passage to the book called Ezekiel in the 14th chapter, verses 7 on, as we read;
> [...For anyone of the house of Israel who separates himself from me...and sets up his Idols in his Heart and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity,... >I will set my face against that man<...].( I will write further about seeing the beast come out of the sea). And then the rejoicing news from the book called Isaiah, the first chapter, verses 18 on;
> [...Come, let us reason together, says the Lord; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool...].
> Lou

Dena,
You wrote,[...What is the significance of the house?...]
What has been revealed to me is that the {house} is a symbol of the Spiritual House that one builds for themselves. In the second chapter of Revelation, John penns in verse 5 on to the congregation that has left their first love;
[...Remember thearfore from where you have fallen,{repent} and {do the {first works}...].
When I was on the shore of the sea and saw the beast come up out of the sea, there was a Rider on a White Horse behind me. When I saw the beast come out of the sea , I turned to Him and he said to me, "Lou, repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. To him that overcomes I will give to eat from The Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-idlshart Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on January 28, 2008, at 21:55:42

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-idlshart Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on January 28, 2008, at 20:56:46

Yes, I agree, that when I leave my first love (for I am made in God's image, and I am made to respond to His love, to reflect His love back to Him), then I set up idols in my heart...

I've come to believe that my heart is the Holy of Holies in the Temple I'm meant to be, and that I'm meant to worship Him in my heart (with all of my heart).

I see that if I put an idol in place of God in my heart (& there will my treasure be), then I will stumble.

Is there a connection between the prophet in Ezekiel 14, and the false prophet (or beast) in Revelation?

I look forward to hearing more about the beast.

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-repntnovrcm Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on January 28, 2008, at 21:58:10

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-repntnovrcm, posted by Lou Pilder on January 28, 2008, at 21:49:23

I see that there's a choice.

That repentence can be chosen... that it ushers in the Kingdom of Heaven... that the Tree of Life represents the Rider, and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations...

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-mndovgd Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2008, at 15:52:33

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-repntnovrcm Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on January 28, 2008, at 21:58:10

> I see that there's a choice.
>
> That repentence can be chosen... that it ushers in the Kingdom of Heaven... that the Tree of Life represents the Rider, and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations...
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...That repentance can be chosen..ushers in the Kingdom of Heaven...]
The verse in Revelation is in chapter 2, verses 5 on that reads,[...Remember..from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works...]
As I read that verse, I asked myself as to repent of what? One could repent of a single thing or a multitude of things, but when I thought of it, there could be an overiding thing to repent of that all the other things could come out of. As a Jew reading what John had penned, I was directed to the book called Isaiah the 26th chapter, the 3erd verse as we read,
[...God will keep a man in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Him, because he trusts in Him...].
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-mndovgd Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on January 29, 2008, at 19:50:24

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-mndovgd Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2008, at 15:52:33

The first works...?

What comes to mind for me is:

- Love God with all of me (heart, soul, strength, mind)

- Love others as myself...

I was reading in a book this morning, about how when Jesus said He was going to prepare a house for me, that it meant a "house" within the heart of God... that I live in the heart of God, and if I choose His gift, He lives in me as well...

And so HE is my first love, and He is my peace, and He is my trust.

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2008, at 20:33:06

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-mndovgd Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on January 29, 2008, at 19:50:24

> The first works...?
>
> What comes to mind for me is:
>
> - Love God with all of me (heart, soul, strength, mind)
>
> - Love others as myself...
>
> I was reading in a book this morning, about how when Jesus said He was going to prepare a house for me, that it meant a "house" within the heart of God... that I live in the heart of God, and if I choose His gift, He lives in me as well...
>
> And so HE is my first love, and He is my peace, and He is my trust.
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...first works?...love God..and others...prepare a house...abide in...]
I can asuradly understand what you wrote. For Solomon's Temple was where God abided. When the Temple was destroyed, we could become the Temples of God for Him to reside in Spiritually. Our bodies then can become the Temples of God's Spirit. I can relate to that. Then if there is an idol of the heart, is there not then that the idol is in the temple?
What was brought to me in reading that verse in Revelation was that in falling I think that our {minds} are changed when we fall, and need to be renewed or exchanged to a new mind. This could then create a new heart and a new spirit and a new person. Old things could pass away and all things could become new.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on January 30, 2008, at 13:07:54

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on January 29, 2008, at 20:33:06

I'm thinking that I was born already "fallen", and thus was in a state in which I made choices out of that fallenness...

I believe that God knew this about me, and loved me enough to want to rescue me from that condition...

I believe that He orchestrated circumstances in my life so that I came to the "end of myself", finally saw that my own efforts couldn't help me to change, and then I saw that He was offering a way of escape for me... and so I chose His offer, and then He came to make me His temple, and is now in my "Holy of Holies" (my heart). Thus my heart is good.

The problem is that my mind is enslaved to the lies that I've long-believed ... and it takes a mind-renewal (replacing one lie with Truth, over time, over a lifetime), in order for me to move more and more into living in the freedom that Truth brings me.

In one sense, I am already a new person, in another sense I am becoming ever-more a new person, and in another sense, I will one day become a finished new person, when I pass through the veil of this life.

Yes, I agree, I am cooperating with the process in which old things have been/are/will be passing away, and all things have been/are/will be made new.

My limited human brain struggles with understanding the "timing" of it, because my current existance is bound by time... however, I see that God exists and functions outside of time, and so is not limited as I am.

Lou -- I hope this didn't distract you from what you were revealing, but perhaps added to what you're saying.


I do strongly agree that when I allow anything to replace my first love (& I believe this is a daily challenge), then I have replaced Him with an idol (for me, this idol can be my own will, my own preferences, and even the "things of God" rather than God Himself... I can replace God with "serving God", or doing good works to "earn relationship" with Him, rather than participating in relationship with Him that He's already given me to enjoy).

Ok, back to you, Lou! What's next?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-agp Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on January 30, 2008, at 16:04:14

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-nwhrt Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on January 30, 2008, at 13:07:54

> I'm thinking that I was born already "fallen", and thus was in a state in which I made choices out of that fallenness...
>
> I believe that God knew this about me, and loved me enough to want to rescue me from that condition...
>
> I believe that He orchestrated circumstances in my life so that I came to the "end of myself", finally saw that my own efforts couldn't help me to change, and then I saw that He was offering a way of escape for me... and so I chose His offer, and then He came to make me His temple, and is now in my "Holy of Holies" (my heart). Thus my heart is good.
>
> The problem is that my mind is enslaved to the lies that I've long-believed ... and it takes a mind-renewal (replacing one lie with Truth, over time, over a lifetime), in order for me to move more and more into living in the freedom that Truth brings me.
>
> In one sense, I am already a new person, in another sense I am becoming ever-more a new person, and in another sense, I will one day become a finished new person, when I pass through the veil of this life.
>
> Yes, I agree, I am cooperating with the process in which old things have been/are/will be passing away, and all things have been/are/will be made new.
>
> My limited human brain struggles with understanding the "timing" of it, because my current existance is bound by time... however, I see that God exists and functions outside of time, and so is not limited as I am.
>
> Lou -- I hope this didn't distract you from what you were revealing, but perhaps added to what you're saying.
>
>
> I do strongly agree that when I allow anything to replace my first love (& I believe this is a daily challenge), then I have replaced Him with an idol (for me, this idol can be my own will, my own preferences, and even the "things of God" rather than God Himself... I can replace God with "serving God", or doing good works to "earn relationship" with Him, rather than participating in relationship with Him that He's already given me to enjoy).
>
> Ok, back to you, Lou! What's next?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...a way to escape...mind is enslaved...renewing of the mind...the process...God exists outside of time...not distract but added...replaced..with an idol...]
Your reply did add to the discussion in a great way. You brought up what the book called the Revelation writes about in symbols.
The symbols of the book reveal the mind of God in relation to His plan for all humanity and what we are purposed for. You wrote about that God does not exist in time. It has been revealed to me that the book called Revelation is also about that time is {now}, {before now} and {after now}.
You did not divert from the meaning of the symbolism of the book, but made it more clear. The beast that came out of the sea has a name that we are comming to. It does have to do with the mind of man and the mind of God. It has been revealed to me that there are two minds that we can entertain. And you wrote that you were enslaved to {lies} and that renewing your mind was replacing things that you had a long-time standing of acceptance to. But how does one ever overcome what they have accepted for many years?
While I was on that Sand, a Rider on a White Horse was behind me. When I saw the Beast come out of the Sea, there was the discussion concerning the fallen house and that the Rider said to me, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." I asked Him what was to repented of. He turned and said to me, "Lou, the Lord preserves them that love Him; Love is the fulfilling of the law; Out of faith, hope and love, the greatest of those is love. Be not conformed to the world, for one can know what love is. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down his life for his friends."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-agp Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on January 30, 2008, at 23:49:50

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-agp Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on January 30, 2008, at 16:04:14

>> It has been revealed to me that there are two minds that we can entertain. And you wrote that you were enslaved to {lies} and that renewing your mind was replacing things that you had a long-time standing of acceptance to. But how does one ever overcome what they have accepted for many years? <<


That's an excellent question, Lou. I don't believe that I CAN overcome it, at least not by my own power, for I'm deceived by the very lies I've embraced as "truth". I have to have the lies revealed to me by God ... I believe He orchestrates circumstances in my life, so that I'm "triggered" by the various pains in my life (the "firey trials"), which remind me of the old, unresolved things in my life. Then, as I turn to Him, He shows me the lies for what they are -- I then have the choice to ask Him to replace the lies with His Truth, and when He does, I then walk in the freedom that comes with Truth. For the Truth sets me free. (I see that He uses pain, the natural consequences for my lie-based choices, to bring me to my senses.)

I believe that when I see through the eyes of Truth, and have my renewed mind (renewed one lie-for-truth at a time), I am an overcomer. For without the power of the lies (the power of compulsion to rule me), I truly have freedom of choice -- I can choose this day whom I will serve, death or life. I choose life.


> > While I was on that Sand, a Rider on a White Horse was behind me. When I saw the Beast come out of the Sea, there was the discussion concerning the fallen house and that the Rider said to me, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." I asked Him what was to repented of. He turned and said to me, "Lou, the Lord preserves them that love Him; Love is the fulfilling of the law; Out of faith, hope and love, the greatest of those is love. Be not conformed to the world, for one can know what love is. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down his life for his friends."
> Lou
>


I see that as the "standard" of love under the law... the greatest love that one could demonstrate was in laying down one's life for a friend.

But, under grace, I see an even greater love in operation: the laying down of One's life for enemies. For I see that I was God's enemy (in my old, fallen state), and against Him. And yet, while I was still an enemy, He laid down His life for me.

He "upped" the standard of love -- and love is the greatest force in the universe. I see that God IS love. I believe that everything about God (including His justice, His anger, and His wrath) come OUT of that love... I see that His wrath is the strongest form of His mercy. His fierce mercy at work, because of His love. (I've come to believe that He continues to use "firey ordeals", even after death, to bring me to my senses, because of His fierce love.)

I see that He goes to inordinate lengths to draw (which means "drag") me to Himself. I see that I cannot come to Him, unless He drags me. I see that He drags me out of His love.

(hoping, again, that this added to, and did not detract from, your teaching)

Shalom, Dena

"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."

 

Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 2, 2008, at 10:30:19

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-agp Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on January 30, 2008, at 23:49:50

> >> It has been revealed to me that there are two minds that we can entertain. And you wrote that you were enslaved to {lies} and that renewing your mind was replacing things that you had a long-time standing of acceptance to. But how does one ever overcome what they have accepted for many years? <<
>
>
> That's an excellent question, Lou. I don't believe that I CAN overcome it, at least not by my own power, for I'm deceived by the very lies I've embraced as "truth". I have to have the lies revealed to me by God ... I believe He orchestrates circumstances in my life, so that I'm "triggered" by the various pains in my life (the "firey trials"), which remind me of the old, unresolved things in my life. Then, as I turn to Him, He shows me the lies for what they are -- I then have the choice to ask Him to replace the lies with His Truth, and when He does, I then walk in the freedom that comes with Truth. For the Truth sets me free. (I see that He uses pain, the natural consequences for my lie-based choices, to bring me to my senses.)
>
> I believe that when I see through the eyes of Truth, and have my renewed mind (renewed one lie-for-truth at a time), I am an overcomer. For without the power of the lies (the power of compulsion to rule me), I truly have freedom of choice -- I can choose this day whom I will serve, death or life. I choose life.
>
>
> > > While I was on that Sand, a Rider on a White Horse was behind me. When I saw the Beast come out of the Sea, there was the discussion concerning the fallen house and that the Rider said to me, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." I asked Him what was to repented of. He turned and said to me, "Lou, the Lord preserves them that love Him; Love is the fulfilling of the law; Out of faith, hope and love, the greatest of those is love. Be not conformed to the world, for one can know what love is. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down his life for his friends."
> > Lou
> >
>
>
> I see that as the "standard" of love under the law... the greatest love that one could demonstrate was in laying down one's life for a friend.
>
> But, under grace, I see an even greater love in operation: the laying down of One's life for enemies. For I see that I was God's enemy (in my old, fallen state), and against Him. And yet, while I was still an enemy, He laid down His life for me.
>
> He "upped" the standard of love -- and love is the greatest force in the universe. I see that God IS love. I believe that everything about God (including His justice, His anger, and His wrath) come OUT of that love... I see that His wrath is the strongest form of His mercy. His fierce mercy at work, because of His love. (I've come to believe that He continues to use "firey ordeals", even after death, to bring me to my senses, because of His fierce love.)
>
> I see that He goes to inordinate lengths to draw (which means "drag") me to Himself. I see that I cannot come to Him, unless He drags me. I see that He drags me out of His love.
>
> (hoping, again, that this added to, and did not detract from, your teaching)
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
> "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."


Dena,
You wrote,[...excellant question... need revealed to me...replace lies with truth and walk in freedom...hope did not distract...]
You did not distract but enriched the discussion by bringing in the two minds.
I ask, did the replacement in your case;
A. make you free from guilt that was not deseved?
B. make you free from shame that was not deserved?
C. make you free from fear that was not deserved?
If you could respond to those, then I could add some other aspects to this discussion.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 2, 2008, at 23:03:54

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 2, 2008, at 10:30:19

Lou, you wrote:

"Dena,
You wrote,[...excellant question... need revealed to me...replace lies with truth and walk in freedom...hope did not distract...]
You did not distract but enriched the discussion by bringing in the two minds.
I ask, did the replacement in your case;
A. make you free from guilt that was not deseved?
B. make you free from shame that was not deserved?
C. make you free from fear that was not deserved?
If you could respond to those, then I could add some other aspects to this discussion.
Lou"


Hmmm... I can't answer this simply, but I'll attempt to asnwer it nonetheless...

As for what I "deserve"... I don't see that I deserve any of God's mercies, grace, or gifts... in fact, that's why His gifts to me are so amazing -- He wants me to have them, because He loves me, and He shows me that I can't possibly deserve what He gives me freely.

His love is lavish in that regard (in ALL regards!).

I see that I WAS guilty of being His enemy when I came into this life... I see that I felt shame, because of the awareness of that guilt... I see that I was then the slave of fear (which I see as the opposite of love).

I experienced Truth replacing the lies that I believed, as His mercy towards me. He didn't want me enslaved to the lies I believed... He wanted me set free. Free to respond to Him, rather than to react to fear.

I don't suppose my answer is helping...

While I deserved, due to my own rebellion against Him, and my own resistance to Him, the consequences of what I believed, and how I thus reacted, He loved me enough to rescue me from both what I believed, and the consequences of my reactions.

Even while I was resisting Him, He was pursuing me... He left the 99 sheep in the fold, and went after me, the one who was lost ... and He continued to pursue me until I was found.

I've come to believe that love, and not fear, is the most powerful motivation in the universe... but that fear is the most common motivation in effect on this planet.

I'm praying to have fear cast out of my life with perfect love, for fear is about punishment, and I no longer believe that God punishes, except to correct me, and to bring me back into relationship with Himself... so even His anger, and His wrath, is a result of His love for me.

He loves me enough to be wrathful toward that which would destroy me -- including the lies I've believed.

Does that answer you, or give you something to work with in what you're teaching, Lou?

Shalom, Dena


"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."

 

Lou's reply to Dena-feighro Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2008, at 14:58:38

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcm Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 2, 2008, at 23:03:54

> Lou, you wrote:
>
> "Dena,
> You wrote,[...excellant question... need revealed to me...replace lies with truth and walk in freedom...hope did not distract...]
> You did not distract but enriched the discussion by bringing in the two minds.
> I ask, did the replacement in your case;
> A. make you free from guilt that was not deseved?
> B. make you free from shame that was not deserved?
> C. make you free from fear that was not deserved?
> If you could respond to those, then I could add some other aspects to this discussion.
> Lou"
>
>
> Hmmm... I can't answer this simply, but I'll attempt to asnwer it nonetheless...
>
> As for what I "deserve"... I don't see that I deserve any of God's mercies, grace, or gifts... in fact, that's why His gifts to me are so amazing -- He wants me to have them, because He loves me, and He shows me that I can't possibly deserve what He gives me freely.
>
> His love is lavish in that regard (in ALL regards!).
>
> I see that I WAS guilty of being His enemy when I came into this life... I see that I felt shame, because of the awareness of that guilt... I see that I was then the slave of fear (which I see as the opposite of love).
>
> I experienced Truth replacing the lies that I believed, as His mercy towards me. He didn't want me enslaved to the lies I believed... He wanted me set free. Free to respond to Him, rather than to react to fear.
>
> I don't suppose my answer is helping...
>
> While I deserved, due to my own rebellion against Him, and my own resistance to Him, the consequences of what I believed, and how I thus reacted, He loved me enough to rescue me from both what I believed, and the consequences of my reactions.
>
> Even while I was resisting Him, He was pursuing me... He left the 99 sheep in the fold, and went after me, the one who was lost ... and He continued to pursue me until I was found.
>
> I've come to believe that love, and not fear, is the most powerful motivation in the universe... but that fear is the most common motivation in effect on this planet.
>
> I'm praying to have fear cast out of my life with perfect love, for fear is about punishment, and I no longer believe that God punishes, except to correct me, and to bring me back into relationship with Himself... so even His anger, and His wrath, is a result of His love for me.
>
> He loves me enough to be wrathful toward that which would destroy me -- including the lies I've believed.
>
> Does that answer you, or give you something to work with in what you're teaching, Lou?
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
>
> "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."

Dena,
You wrote,[...his gifts...the slave of fear...shakled...rescued...I don't suppose...lost sheep...fear cast out of my life...].
We have been discussing things that other members have asked about and your replies are very helpfull indeed. The discussion has the componants of Solomon's Temple, Masonry, 666, and then the beast that came out of the sea and then the idols of the heart.
What has been revealed to me is that man has two natures and we could be led by one or the other. The one nature is that of just a animal with out a spirit, like the beasts of the jungle.
The scriptures used by the Jews tell of man being created out of the dust of the ground. But then God breathed into man the breath of life. Now man has a Spirit. It was God's breath, so the spirit came from God. Man can be led by the spirit or led by the flesh. Solomon, 666, the beast that came out of the sea, the idols of the heart. (I will reveal what has been revealed to me about this shortly)
The scriptures used by the Jews write in the book called Ezekiel chapter 34 verse 12;
[...As a shepard seeks out his flock in the day, that he is among his sheep that are scattered, so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day...].
When I was on that shore and saw the Beast come out of the sea I said to the Rider that I was lost and afraid and wanted a way out of here.
Then the Rider stretched out His hand and spoke words that I could not undertsand and a mighty wind pushed the sea apart and there was dry land leading way off to a great gate. Then the Rider vanished and there was like a great army comming at us to kill us and I could hear the sound of 1000 motors. I thought that they were commimg to keep me from being delivered. I looked at the great gate across the dry land that was opened up and the Rider was there and he called to me, "I am the door, I am the Good Shepard; the Good Shepard gives His life for the sheep" .
Lou

 

Lou's reply to Dena-frmbndge

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2008, at 15:46:23

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-feighro Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2008, at 14:58:38

> > Lou, you wrote:
> >
> > "Dena,
> > You wrote,[...excellant question... need revealed to me...replace lies with truth and walk in freedom...hope did not distract...]
> > You did not distract but enriched the discussion by bringing in the two minds.
> > I ask, did the replacement in your case;
> > A. make you free from guilt that was not deseved?
> > B. make you free from shame that was not deserved?
> > C. make you free from fear that was not deserved?
> > If you could respond to those, then I could add some other aspects to this discussion.
> > Lou"
> >
> >
> > Hmmm... I can't answer this simply, but I'll attempt to asnwer it nonetheless...
> >
> > As for what I "deserve"... I don't see that I deserve any of God's mercies, grace, or gifts... in fact, that's why His gifts to me are so amazing -- He wants me to have them, because He loves me, and He shows me that I can't possibly deserve what He gives me freely.
> >
> > His love is lavish in that regard (in ALL regards!).
> >
> > I see that I WAS guilty of being His enemy when I came into this life... I see that I felt shame, because of the awareness of that guilt... I see that I was then the slave of fear (which I see as the opposite of love).
> >
> > I experienced Truth replacing the lies that I believed, as His mercy towards me. He didn't want me enslaved to the lies I believed... He wanted me set free. Free to respond to Him, rather than to react to fear.
> >
> > I don't suppose my answer is helping...
> >
> > While I deserved, due to my own rebellion against Him, and my own resistance to Him, the consequences of what I believed, and how I thus reacted, He loved me enough to rescue me from both what I believed, and the consequences of my reactions.
> >
> > Even while I was resisting Him, He was pursuing me... He left the 99 sheep in the fold, and went after me, the one who was lost ... and He continued to pursue me until I was found.
> >
> > I've come to believe that love, and not fear, is the most powerful motivation in the universe... but that fear is the most common motivation in effect on this planet.
> >
> > I'm praying to have fear cast out of my life with perfect love, for fear is about punishment, and I no longer believe that God punishes, except to correct me, and to bring me back into relationship with Himself... so even His anger, and His wrath, is a result of His love for me.
> >
> > He loves me enough to be wrathful toward that which would destroy me -- including the lies I've believed.
> >
> > Does that answer you, or give you something to work with in what you're teaching, Lou?
> >
> > Shalom, Dena
> >
> >
> > "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."
>
> Dena,
> You wrote,[...his gifts...the slave of fear...shakled...rescued...I don't suppose...lost sheep...fear cast out of my life...].
> We have been discussing things that other members have asked about and your replies are very helpfull indeed. The discussion has the componants of Solomon's Temple, Masonry, 666, and then the beast that came out of the sea and then the idols of the heart.
> What has been revealed to me is that man has two natures and we could be led by one or the other. The one nature is that of just a animal with out a spirit, like the beasts of the jungle.
> The scriptures used by the Jews tell of man being created out of the dust of the ground. But then God breathed into man the breath of life. Now man has a Spirit. It was God's breath, so the spirit came from God. Man can be led by the spirit or led by the flesh. Solomon, 666, the beast that came out of the sea, the idols of the heart. (I will reveal what has been revealed to me about this shortly)
> The scriptures used by the Jews write in the book called Ezekiel chapter 34 verse 12;
> [...As a shepard seeks out his flock in the day, that he is among his sheep that are scattered, so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day...].
> When I was on that shore and saw the Beast come out of the sea I said to the Rider that I was lost and afraid and wanted a way out of here.
> Then the Rider stretched out His hand and spoke words that I could not undertsand and a mighty wind pushed the sea apart and there was dry land leading way off to a great gate. Then the Rider vanished and there was like a great army comming at us to kill us and I could hear the sound of 1000 motors. I thought that they were commimg to keep me from being delivered. I looked at the great gate across the dry land that was opened up and the Rider was there and he called to me, "I am the door, I am the Good Shepard; the Good Shepard gives His life for the sheep" .
> Lou

Dena,
The army was approaching me. They were in groups of 60, ten groups, motorcycles. Then all at once the wheels came off off all the bikes and the Rider called out to me,"Stretch out your hand over the sea that the waters will come over the motorcycles and their drivers."
I did and the waters came over the 600 as a great wave that covered all of them. There was not one left on the shore.
Then the Rider allowed the sea to close up. And he called out to me, "Who has believed our report? and to whom is the {Arm of the Lord} revealed?"
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-frmbndge Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 6, 2008, at 14:09:40

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-frmbndge, posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2008, at 15:46:23

Hey Lou -

Of course this seems indicative of the army of the Egyptians, and the chariots, and how the Red Sea covered them, after Moses led the Israelites to the other side, and safety.

What's next, Lou?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-brdvlf Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2008, at 13:00:12

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-frmbndge Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 6, 2008, at 14:09:40

> Hey Lou -
>
> Of course this seems indicative of the army of the Egyptians, and the chariots, and how the Red Sea covered them, after Moses led the Israelites to the other side, and safety.
>
> What's next, Lou?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...what is next..].
It was a frightening experiance to see the 600 swept out into the sea. The dark clouds lifted and I was alone and lost I could see a vast plain way off and it looked like there was some smoke arising from a city.
Then the Rider appeared. I asked Him what that was all about and He said to me, "Remember this day that you were brought out from those that wanted to put you in bondage, by the strengh of {My Hand}, for it shall be a sign to you on {your hand and between your eyes}."
I asked, "Is there any way out of here?" The Rider said to me," Go to that great plain afar off. I will turn the bitter waters sweet for you and heaven will have bread rain down for you. And Whoever asks you as to how you got there, tell them I Am sent you."
Lou

 

Lou's reply to Dena-scndth

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2008, at 14:00:26

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-brdvlf Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2008, at 13:00:12

> > Hey Lou -
> >
> > Of course this seems indicative of the army of the Egyptians, and the chariots, and how the Red Sea covered them, after Moses led the Israelites to the other side, and safety.
> >
> > What's next, Lou?
> >
> > Shalom, Dena
>
> Dena,
> You wrote,[...what is next..].
> It was a frightening experiance to see the 600 swept out into the sea. The dark clouds lifted and I was alone and lost I could see a vast plain way off and it looked like there was some smoke arising from a city.
> Then the Rider appeared. I asked Him what that was all about and He said to me, "Remember this day that you were brought out from those that wanted to put you in bondage, by the strengh of {My Hand}, for it shall be a sign to you on {your hand and between your eyes}."
> I asked, "Is there any way out of here?" The Rider said to me," Go to that great plain afar off. I will turn the bitter waters sweet for you and heaven will have bread rain down for you. And Whoever asks you as to how you got there, tell them I Am sent you."
> Lou

Dena,
I came to a great city. Immediatly I was surrounded by men that took me to a great statue made of gold. I was told that it was a statue of their king and that it was in terms of their measurments, 60 tall by 6 in width. Then I heard from a booming speaker loud music and a voice saying, " It is commanded that all people at the time that they hear this music shall fall down and worship the gold image that the King has set up; and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace."
Then three mwn were brought before the king. One said that they did not fall down and worship the gold image when they heard the music because they do not worship idols. The king was furious. He orderd a furnace to be turned up 7 times its heat and to throw the men in. The furnace became so hot that the men stoking it caught fire and burned to death.
The three men were cast into the firery furnace bound. Then the king went to the furnace and looked in and behold, the men were walking in the midst of the fire and unharmed. The king turned around and said that there is a forth man not hurt by the flame. And He is Ridng a White Horse.
Then the king yelled for the three men to come out, but the Rider and horse did not. The king said," Who is this God of yours that has allowed you to be unharmed by this Lake of Fire?"
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-scndth Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 8, 2008, at 17:10:59

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-scndth, posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2008, at 14:00:26

Lou -

I'm familiar with that account - from the book of Daniel (which I believe to be partly history, and partly prophecy). Interestingly, I was reading about this very passage, in my friend's book (The Parable of Gold), just this morning...!

But I'm curious -- the book of Daniel doesn't describe the furnace as a "Lake of Fire"... can you elaborate on how you made this connection with the Lake of Fire mentioned in Revelation?

Thanks -

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-Lkof Fire Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 8, 2008, at 21:27:25

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-scndth Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 8, 2008, at 17:10:59

> Lou -
>
> I'm familiar with that account - from the book of Daniel (which I believe to be partly history, and partly prophecy). Interestingly, I was reading about this very passage, in my friend's book (The Parable of Gold), just this morning...!
>
> But I'm curious -- the book of Daniel doesn't describe the furnace as a "Lake of Fire"... can you elaborate on how you made this connection with the Lake of Fire mentioned in Revelation?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
We have been discussing the book called revelation and that it is a book of symbols. The one that penned the book, John, was a Jew and I think that his readers could also be Jews and non Jews, and I think that the book could be understood by Jews that were versed in their scriptures. As a Jew, I can relate to the symbols in the book and they are even revealed to me.
So this Lake of Fire is written in many places in the book called revelation and the Lake of fire as a symbol then could be known to the Jewish reader.
But we have also been discussing the beast that came out of the sea and 666 and idols of the heart and Solomon's Temple and that the body is the Temple of God made of stone, a mansion. These are all related in the book and revealed in the scriptures of the Jews.
We have talked about the house built on sand that fell and a house built of wood will burn and fall. And I will be talking about that fire and wood and the Lake of Fire.
In Revelation 20 verse 14 it reads,[...And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death...].And we can read in chapter 2 verse 11,[...He that overcomes will not be hurt of the second death...]
In the part in Danial that you are reading, I think it talks about the king's image, Nebuchadnezzar, in gold. And those that would not bow down to the image and worship it such as Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego were cast into the fiery furnace. But they were not hurt by the fire. They were overcomers and their faith was tried by fire. Their house was not built of wood. Their house was The Temple of God, stone. And in the Father's house there are many mansions.
In the book called Isiah chapter 43 verse 2, we read,[....When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow you, when you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned neither shall the flame kindle upon you...]. There is much more to this....
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-Lkof Fire Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 8, 2008, at 23:47:03

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-Lkof Fire Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 8, 2008, at 21:27:25

It's fascinating to me Lou, how you link so many seemingly incongruent parts of Scripture. As a non-Jewish believer (taught through traditional, institutional Christianity), these parts were each a separate "portion" ... and not explained in a way that connected the parts into a whole (which, I realize is western-influenced understanding at work). I also recognize that the Bible was written to an eastern people, in an eastern part of the world -- and that the eastern focus is more wholistic -- so there would be more of an awareness of integration...

Anyway, I find it fascinating to see it starting to come together in my own mind... what's the "more to come", Lou?

Shalom, Dena

 

Lou's reply to Dena-duece Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2008, at 20:37:16

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-Lkof Fire Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 8, 2008, at 23:47:03

> It's fascinating to me Lou, how you link so many seemingly incongruent parts of Scripture. As a non-Jewish believer (taught through traditional, institutional Christianity), these parts were each a separate "portion" ... and not explained in a way that connected the parts into a whole (which, I realize is western-influenced understanding at work). I also recognize that the Bible was written to an eastern people, in an eastern part of the world -- and that the eastern focus is more wholistic -- so there would be more of an awareness of integration...
>
> Anyway, I find it fascinating to see it starting to come together in my own mind... what's the "more to come", Lou?
>
> Shalom, Dena

Dena,
You wrote,[...in my own mind...].
The book called Revelation is about the mind. It is about two minds. It is about two masters. It is about two walks. It is about two roads. It is about two Gates. It is about two desires.
What are these two minds? What are the two masters? How are the two minds controlled by the two masters? The book called Revelation writes about the ways that the masters control the two minds. One mind is led to death and many entertain that mind. And the other mind is led to life and few find it.
The book called Revelation connects the symbols in scripture and reveals that to be carnally minded is death. And to be spitually minded is life and peace. And the member here asked about 666. I am answering that question.
For we have seen Solomon and his wealth. We have seen Pharaoh's army of 600 chariots. We have seen the giant image of gold of Nebuchadnezzar that was 60X6.
The world still has those that want to make a statue of themselves while they are alive. The book called Revelation is for any peoples to read while there is an idol of gold in their heart. This could be now, the time before now, and the time after now. Opening up the book now is the same as when John penned it and will be the same tomorrow. For the beast that comes out of the sea was seen by John. It was seen by me and it can be seen now by anyone. The people with the golden idols have all the bread that they want to eat. when I was lost on the sand and went to the city on the great plain and saw the statue, heaven rained down bread to me to keep me alive. The rider said that it was a sign to me.
I went back to the shore. I was hungry. The Rider was there to meet me. He said to me,"You saw the king and his idol of gold. You saw that he wanted power and the things that wealth can obtain and to have others bow down to him and he could not allow one to refuse so he killed those. He had all the bread that he wanted. But man shall not live by bread alone." "You had bread rain down from heaven and your fathers ate that same bread and died. There is a bread that comes down from heaven that a man may eat that he may live forever. Moses gave your fathers bread from heaven but my Father will give you bread from heaven that will give life to the world."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Dena-duece Lou Pilder

Posted by Dena on February 12, 2008, at 23:07:23

In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-duece Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2008, at 20:37:16

Sorry for the delay, Lou...

So, are you saying that it's an attitude of the heart, whether I'm trusting in the One who gives Life Bread, or in an idol (represented by a Great Beast, seeking to devour...)?

Are you saying that there is no time coming (end time), in which people will receive a "mark" with which to buy and sell, and thus "sell themselves" over to the Beast, with those who refuse to do so receiving tribulation?

That it's all figurative, and indicative of a spiritual condition...?

Shalom, Dena


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