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Re: Lou's reply to Sigismund--

Posted by Dena on November 14, 2008, at 19:14:47

In reply to Lou's reply to Sigismund--, posted by Lou Pilder on November 12, 2008, at 19:48:59

Hi Lou, and Sigismund.

This quote, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me" has long troubled me...

I read that the Anointed One cried it out, as dying, while He became our sin ... and others have told me that this means that God cannot be near our sin, and thus He separated from the Anointed One in His death (& that He also flees from us when we sin).

However, that doesn't square with the verse that I read here, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself"... that tells me that God never separated from the Messiah, but was with Him, IN Him, while He was sin itself. So too, is He with us when we sin, drawing us back to Himself. The Messiah, full of sin at that moment, sin itself, *perceived* that God had left Him -- because the nature of sin is to blind us to truth. But that wasn't the *reality* of what was going on. We've had some rather tainted traditions, due to faulty doctrines and misunderstandings...

Then, I learned that the Messiah was crying out the first line of a Psalm -- much as we do when we title songs, and ask for them by name. The first line was the "name" of the Psalm (they weren't then numbered). The Psalm that He cried out, is Psalm 22 ...

(Here it is in the KJV):

Psalm 22
1My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

7All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

8He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

9But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

10I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

11Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

12Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

13They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

14I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

15My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

16For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

17I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

18They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

19But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

20Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

21Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

22I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

23Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

24For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

25My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

26The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

27All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.

29All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

If I understand correctly, the Jewish people at that time would know the entire Psalm (as at least most of the men had memorized the Psalms), and thus they would know what the Messiah was intending to say (but could not, physically, while dying).

When I read the entire psalm, particularly verses 27 to the end), I see that He was saying, "I'm fulfilling that which was foretold -- I am the one who is making it possible for all to be saved - for salvation comes from/through the Jews, the ones set aside by God, to usher forth the Messiah, blessed to be a blessing to the world, as was told to Abraham -- through you shall ALL families on earth be blessed."

It seems to me that He was announcing that this had happened, that it was being fulfilled before them, even as He said to His Father, "Forgive them [all of them, the Jews, the Romans, all of the humans who would ever exist], for they know not what they do."

The Savior of all, especially those who believe ... (those who believe experience it now, but all are saved, and will eventually experience it as well).

(Those are my thoughts, as I think on that verse you shared, Lou.)

Shalom, Dena




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