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Lou's reply to Dena-rsist Dena

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 22, 2008, at 9:59:54

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-beastoutvthesea Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 21, 2008, at 22:12:25

> Lou -
>
> This is amazing to me... I've been known as a Christian for over 30 years now... since I was 15. I've had many, many teachings about this book, about what it means (most of the teachings conflict with each other, as everyone seems to KNOW what it means, and even whole denominational divisions have occurred over it... so much for "they'll know we're Christians by our love".... sad).
>
> So, you're saying that the way a Jew would understand this book, is that it's symbolic... it's about how to go from one who is "lost" to one who is "found"; from one who is "dead" to one who is "alive"; to be born anew.
>
> This is startling to me, for I was taught this was a book of coming events, the "end times" when a literal "antichrist" (which I now know is not even mentioned in this book) would become a world-leader, and usher in the worship of the Beast, and everyone would have to take on the "mark of the Beast" on their head or their hand, not being able to either buy or sell without it. Then would come the tribulation, with many, many people being killed (unless they take the mark of the Beast), and the overcomers would go to heaven, to be with God. Then, a great battle -- then the Millenniel Reign (with the beast, false prophet and Satan locked up for a while). THen the bad guys get released, and some folks are deceived. And then, the false prophet, the beast, and all those who worshipped the beast, would be thrown into the lake of fire, to burn endlessly, forever and ever with no chance of escape. And those who overcame would live in the New Jerusalem (new heaven and new earth) forever and ever.
>
> That, with a few variations, was what I was taught, as a "Christian", by those who said they knew these things.
>
> And then, God took me out of the institutional church, out of Christianity (which I now believe is a manmade system), and I realized that I was part of His Ekklesia -- the called-out ones. Called out of all things man-made, including that which "calls itself church". I learned that Church is a people to be, not a place to go, or a thing to join. And I learned that I'd been duped about all manner of things... about the system of Christianity, about what the gospel is, about the clergy-laity division, about how women being second-class citizens, and I came to believe that God's plan has always been to reconcile all things, including all people, to Himself. IOW, that He saves everyone. That the power of the atonement extends to ALL, and that all will, one way or another, no matter what it takes, no matter how many firey ordeals, or how long the age of correction/pruning, everyone will come to the end of themselves, having been salted by fire, and SEE Him for who He is, and CHOOSE Him (& there is an order, starting with firstfruits, and continuing) -- thus, every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that He is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. For He is the Savior of ALL, especially those who believe.
>
> So, Lou, are you now telling me, after all this time of sharing your "experience", that the book known as "The Revelation" is not about future events, but about the wooing, delivering, transforming, refining process of what God does within each one's life...?
>
>
> Wow.
>
> Ok, I have to go back in and read it (I use a more literal translation than what's commonly read). I want to delve into what HE says to each of the 7 assemblies (as my translation puts it).
>
> I want to see what I get out of it, with this particular enlightening... and I'm asking the Holy Spirit to show me what He wants me to see...
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> > Dena,
> > You wrote,[...symbolism..beast...sea...].
> > When John penned the book called The revelation, I believe that what he penned was intended for at least Jewish people that were versed in their scriptures and so that the symbols used could be understood by them. Then they could speak the meanings of the symbols to those not versed in the scriptures that the Jews used.
> > The book says that what is in it is {to the 7 "churches"}. The English word, "church" means {the called out by the God that the Jews worship}. It has been revealed to me that the "7" churches then are symbolic of the {complete} group of the called out by God, 7 being the symbolic number that Jews consider to be meaning to be {complete}. The people in those called out by the God that the Jews worship groups, then have been revealed to me to be all of those people in all ages. This then has been revealed to me to mean that the book is to all those at anytime that are reading it, be it in the time period when John penned it, or anytime after that, being now or 1000000 years from now.
> > The book writes that anyone that reads it will be blessed. The book writes that the one that penned it, John, was in Spirit at the time of penning it. It was what was revealed to him by an angel of God. And the book writes that it is to {he that has an ear} to let him hear what {The Spirit} says to {the churches}.
> > My friends, it is my deep conviction that anyone that is reading this has an ear to hear and that the hearing will be a spiritual hearing. I base this on what I believe to be that the Word of God is what the God that the Jews worship use to draw all men to Him.
> > The Jews had a king, David. He was the king of the nation of Israel. It has been revealed to me that there is a spititual Israel. And in the book called Genesis, we read in the 28th chapter, about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. and starting at verse 12, that the God of Israel tells Abraham that He will give him the land and to his seed. And then God says that his seed will spread to the west and to the north and to the east and to the south, and in his seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
> > Lou
Dena,
You wrote,[...it is symbolic...lost to found...dead to alive...born anew...mark of the beast on their head..hand...the Lake of Fire...].
The book is a book of symbols and the book states that. Some of the symbols are defined in the book and others are those that I think a Jew that was versed in their scriptures could understand.
The symbols in the first book of the scriptures that the Jews use are related to the symbols in the book called The Revelation. The first book called Genesis, tells of man's creation and also other created beings. One is the serpent that appears in the book called The Revelation. After Eve said that the serpent deceived her, we go on in that chapter, 3, to read that in verse 14 God says to the serpent that [...dust shall you eat all the days of your life...].
Now the serpent is a symbol, for serpents can not talk. And Eve did not have a conversation with a snake, for the scene is symbolic for a reason. But that God said to the serpent that he would eat dust all the days of his life from then on is also symbolic because snakes could not survive on dust only. You see, the dust is also a symbol. Fot in the 19th verse of this book we read as God is talking to Adam,[...you shall eat bread, untill you return to the ground; for out of it were you taken: for dust you are and into dust shall you return...].
Now the serpent will eat {dust}. Man is {dust}. The serpent will substain himself then on man. It has been revealed to me that he will mainly seek the mind of men to live on.
And Adam will eat bread. Bread is a symbol which I will explain soon. But the scene now is that the serpent is seeking to live by eating {dust}. It has been revealed to me that this now is something that man will need to {overcome}. For if the serpent is seeking to enter man's mind to survive {by deceiving} as the serpent deceived Eve, then man has an enemy in his mind and the book called The Revelation says that the serpent has deceived the whole world. It has been revealed to me that the book called The Revelation shows in symbols how the serpent has controlled the minds of the whole world and how one can Overcome the serpent, which is the devil, Satan. It has been revealed to me as Adam and Eve were in The Paradise of God and were deceived by the serpent in the beginning, and ate of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil, and were kept from eating of the Tree of Life, so shall he that overcomes then eat of the Tree of Life, which is in The Paradise of God.
Lou

 

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poster:Lou Pilder thread:799425
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20070227/msgs/814080.html