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Re: Lou's response to rayww's post-

Posted by rayww on April 6, 2005, at 9:48:19

In reply to Lou's response to rayww's post- rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on April 6, 2005, at 8:23:08

Lou, I'll try to put as much thought into my response as you have your questions.

> rayww,
> You wrote,[...Jesus will the Jews and [then and {only} then] will they as a nation accept him...] and,[...Christ had to give his life...that it was part of the plan...for salvation for the whole human family...].
> Are you saying any of the following?
> A. God says that the jews as a nation have rejected the Jesus of your group.

A young woman of our faith told a story of her great grandfather. He went to church one Sunday and then never returned again. Out of over 1000 decendants this young woman is the only living member of our church in her family. By contrast, my great grandfather remained active. As a result, there are thousands of active faithful members in mine. Another contrast, some devout members of other religions do not marry. Think of how many more devoted members there would be in the world if these fine gentlemen and ladies had families. Even God the Father had a Son. The choices made by the fathers affect the lives of their posterity. So,,,I meant, "some" Jewish leaders were responsible for the rejection of Jesus by the whole Jewish nation. I also meant that in order for prophecy to be fulfilled the first shall be last and the last shall be first to accept the Jesus of my group.

> B. The bible says that the jews as a nation have rejected the Jesus of your group
> C. If the bible says it, then God also says it.
> D. The Jesus of the group that you belong to is the same Jesus as other christian groups

Of course Jesus is the same. (but) We believe that Jesus is the literal Son of God, born to the Virgin Mary, and that after his birth she and her legal husband Joseph had many other children. We believe Christ lived a somewhat normal life as a child, growing grace by grace until he began his official ministry. We believe he had a for-ordained mission to be the Messiah or the Redeemer of all mankind. And, we believe he accomplished that purpose through his life and death, and then ushered in the resurrection. We believe there was no resurrection from the dead before the resurrection of Christ. We believe that Jesus did not die from the piercing of the spear or any other injury, that He caused his own spirit to leave his own body when he felt he had completed his task of suffering for all of our sins. "Into thy hands I command my spirit" was his last words to his real Father, the God of us all. We believe Jesus had the power to cause himself to be resurrected, thereby opening the gate for all to join him. Jesus is still resurrected. He has a tangible body that can be touched and felt that many have witnessed.

> E. By the jews as a nation rejecting Jesus, they have rejected the part of salvation plan of God

Are you meaning resurrection or salvation? Every person who gets born and then dies will get resurrected. Salvation is for those who work out their own, as did Jesus. This life is only a (very important) part of the whole picture. The body and mind and attitudes we die with will be ours in the resurrection. That's why we need to do what we can with what we have while we are able, which is what I assume you and I are both doing, so we're probably both OK. Everyone's time will come so be patient.

> F. Jews as a nation are not saved because they have rejected Jesus.

No. "some" Jewish leaders from a long time ago are responsible for the belief of today's nation. The Jews as a nation will one day recognize their Messiah, when he comes in Glory, whom we believe is Jesus.

> G. anyone, including jews, that does not accept the death of Jesus as part of God's plan of salvation for the whole human family can not be saved.

Yes and no. Anyone who dies without knowledge who would have accepted the Gospel of Jesus Christ, (which is the same Gospel as God's) had he known what it really was, will be resurrected to an eternal Celestial body. Are you referring to resurrection, salvation, or exaltation?

> H. a combination of the above
> K. none of the above
> L. all of the above
> M. someting else
> Lou

You ask questions that are difficult to answer.
without getting blocked.

Lou, the Mormons have never believed there is no salvation for the Jews as a nation. Salvation and love is a very individual thing. Christ loves you Lou. He knows your pain. He even knows your Rider. Otherwise, why would some of their words be the same?




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