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Re: How to justify pagan roots? simus

Posted by femlite on January 13, 2004, at 21:58:50

In reply to Re: How to justify pagan roots?, posted by simus on January 12, 2004, at 23:07:57

I am not a scholar either, but according to some scholars there are a few occurances in the old testement that are believed to be what the east calls theophanies and the west calls epihanies, meaning representations of the trinity.
As ray mentioned the verses in the begginging of Gen. "Let US make man in OUR image, are believed to be examples of Gods relationship to his son and the holy spirit. If you look at the original greek on that you might even find added info.

Another example is Abraham meeting the "preist" Melchizedech in the desert. He gave tithes to this priest. The OT references to this "Preist" are less detailed than Pauls letter to the Hebrews, ch. 7. Paul calls Melchizedich, the "King of Peace" and a preist, he says, w/o bggining or end, with no mother or father (v. 1-3)
It is also believed that the three "men" Abraham gave hospitality to in the wilderness were a theophany, a representation of the trinity. (Gen. ch. 18)
Some Scholars believe that the angel at the wall of Jericho, who spoke with Joshua, was an ephiphany of Christ.
What does ephiphany or theophany mean? It is a little more than a type and perhaps slightly less than the exact thing. In the eastern church we feel it is nec. to leave room for mystery. It is okay to leave somethings to the heart and the spirit that are inconcievable to the mind. It is even nec.
It is true that the old testement was a different covenant, the old one. But Christ demonstrated His esteem for it by saying that he came to fulfil the law not simply abolish it. The law is a tutor to bring us to Christ, as we see our inability to keep it. Like the rich young ruler, who honored the 10 commandments, Christ commended him and then offered him perfection, by suggesting he give all he had to the poor.

I think there may be a few more references (other than the prophetic ones, as you said,) but those are the ones that sprang to mind.

I think this is a great thread and it is wonderful to be able share our questions and ideas in an open and supportive atmosphere.

>
> Where do you find Christ mentioned in the Old Testament of the Bible, possibly other than in the prophetic writings that were referring to the coming of Jesus, the Christ, the Messiah? I am not a scholar, but I do not see any sign of Christianity in the Old Testament. My understanding of the Bible is that the "Old Testament" is referring to the covenant that God made with His people before the coming of Jesus, the Christ. In the Old Testament, the people were under the Mosaic laws, and were required to offer animal sacrifices for their sins. I don't know of any occasion where God's people worshipped, or even knew Jesus.
>
> Upon the birth, life, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for our salvation, the "New Testament", or new covenant, came into being. This is the first place I see the term "Christian" used. So, even though I am a Christian to the core of my being, I do not accept Jesus as the God of the Old Testament. Adam and Eve had no opportunity to be Christians that I can see. Whether or not Adam and Eve talked to Jesus, I don't know. They talked to God, they talked to angels and they talked to Satan, so I suppose it is possible that they could have talked to Jesus too. I just don't see it in the Bible, so I don't know. But, like I said, I am not a great scholar, just a Bible reader.
>
>


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poster:femlite thread:297550
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040113/msgs/300441.html