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Re: 5 weeks undopaminergic

Posted by SLS on January 17, 2023, at 19:09:49

In reply to Re: 5 weeks SLS, posted by undopaminergic on January 17, 2023, at 10:57:05

Hi, UD.

UD: > > > I see what you're saying. It is a reasonable hypothesis that God doesn't leave when you feel down, and that you just can't feel him. The question is why doesn't he speak to you in a way you're receptive to?

SLS: > > I love your questions. Unfortunately, I can't provide answers to them. My (cop-out?) position is that I can't possibly know the Mind of God, and it is likely that no one ever has - not even Moses.

UD: > I'm sure you're right about that. I don't even have a full understanding of my *own* mind.

Join the club.

> > People who are well-adjusted or self-actualized are comfortable with uncertainty. I don't know where that leaves me, but I can deal with not being able to call God on my cell phone whenever I want answers from Him.

> I'd say I deal all right with uncertainty. I'm very curious, perhaps even pathologically so, and have an immense lust for knowledge, but not knowing does not tend to give me anxiety.

Join the club.

> > I know that our conversation here would seem out of place on Psycho-Babble, but it really isn't.
> >
> > https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=spirituality+depression&sort=relevance

> Well, it's not about Medication, which is the default topic. In his heyday, Dr. Bob might well have moved this to another subforum.

He had quite a few different forums, including a Faith forum. They are still operation, I think. All of the forums had quite a bit of activity. There was a mass exodus of members because of one poster who Bob didn't block from posting. It was unhealthy and got very old, and the majority of posts became fights with this person. Not ejecting him was Dr. Bob's most destructive decision. That being said, he was actually a pioneer in using the Internet to provide a website that was replete with psychiatric information and active support.

Bob had archives that contained every post beginning in 2000. He had all of them posted at the top of the main page (this one). I don't know what happened, but this is all that is left:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/more.html#Archives

> > > Certainly he must have the ability.

> > I have the ability to give you all of my money, but I choose not to. You will never know why. At the very beginning of our relationship, my fiance told me that we hold God within us. I was hooked. Speaking for myself only, I actually do feel God within me. I can't define how it happens, but I do know how it feels. It is very visceral. I have learned to use "good" visceral feelings to help me distinguish between what's right for me and what's wrong for me. That includes the pondering of the mystery of existence.

> I don't really have a God-gut-feeling.

I won't suggest that everyone has this kind of experience - or that anyone should.

Most often, I feel him when I see or experience things that I connect with him. Sometimes, it's just a thought in my mind, but it can also be a word or number that appears somewhere outside of me "just at the right time".
>
> > As a result of my handful of drug-induced manias, I now give people a very simple instruction for how to recognize a manic state with me. If I talk to God, that does not by itself indicate mania. It's when God talks back to me that there is a problem.


> It's not necessarily a problem in itself. It's a problem when you do something stupid based on what (you think he's) telling you.

I think I mentioned that very early in my relationship with my fiancee, she said that "We all hold God within us." This resonated very well with my what I believed. I never ask God the question, "Why?", even though this is what I most want to know. Why existence? Scientists make progress every day in figuring out the "how" beginning from before the Big Bang through the evolution of homo Sapiens. God has never answered any of my questions directly. However, I believe that I come to know His answers (for me) by listening to how I feel viscerally, and which answer resonates with me. It just feels "right" to me. I have faith that this is His way of communicating with me. This is why my what my fiancee saying to me that we hold God within us was so compelling to me. I never met anyone whose spiritual beliefs aligned so beautifully with my own. She captured me.


> I have had many experiences where words came to me by inspiration. I didn't have to make anything up, or do anything at all really, but I do like to type them down in my diary. It can help me in times of need to revisit these passages.

I find you to be very much a "seeker". It is your nature to be curious. You absolutely lust for knowledge and understanding.

> > > I think maybe the answer is time. God has a very different perspective on time than we do: eternity. A year of depression for us can be an instant for him, at most. Maybe he doesn't even notice we're gone for that instant -- even if he does, it wouldn't alarm him.

> > You are big time deep. This conversation is a welcomed surprise. I suggest that God wouldn't be a true god if he has lapses in omniscience.

God doesn't go AWOL with you.

The way I use (capital G) God is as a shorthand for some kind of ideal. This ideal tends to include omniscience. But sometimes there are ideals that contradict each other -- how can they all be true?

I can't help but to believe that Truth *is*. There is only one. Truth is both immutable and unknowable. Uncertainty is therefore my best friend.

> Because learning new things is so important to me, I actually felt sorry for God if indeed he knows everything and can never learn anything new.

Boy, that really hit me. I need to think about this.

> Also, assuming that was true, I admired him for not killing himself rather than having to live that way for an eternity. Maybe this period of sympathy touched him in some way, because my best experiences with him came afterwards (though not immediately). I did experience a great relief after coming to know (or believe) that he's a humorous and fun-loving sort of a guy, apparently always in a good mood.

I think where I differ from Michelangelo di Lodovico Buonarroti Simoni (full name) is that I avoid the personification of God. God is not an entity. Entities have boundaries. Omnipresence does not allow for boundaries.

I am an absolute believer in a god that doesn't exist. I'll leave you with that paradox to think about on your own. I enjoy putting words together.

> > I get the impression that you might be in the midst of an existential crisis.

> Interesting impression. I wouldn't say I am.

You would know it if you were.

> > I understand how serious you are.

> I tend to take everything too seriously when I'm not at my best. I think the key is balance.

> > I hope you find your healing in treatment with whatever works.

> Thanks, I wish you luck in keeping that remission going!

Someone else in remission told me that they were always looking over their shoulder for the beast to return.

> > I can all but guarantee that it will be much easier for you to come up with your own, unique answers.

> As opposed to searching for some kind of "Guru" to give me the answers?

No guru can know you. They can only know themselves, no matter how much they may believe otherwise. Besides, it is the journey of the self that makes life so interesting. In my opinion, you have everything you need to make that journey without having someone else doing all of the driving.

> > Remember, you have the rest of your life to toy with ideas without having to be certain about any of them. As far as a methodology is concerned, I began with - If it feels right, it probably is. If it feels wrong, it probably is. If you feel nothing, consider giving more time to deliberate your conclusions and decisions. You may have to rely upon your skills of critical thinking. We all do.

> I sometimes followed the methodology of "if it works on rats, maybe it will work for me". I remember in particular the idea of using amantadine as augmentation for an antidepressant.

I didn't know that it was theory that drove the use of that drug.

> > Good luck.

> Thanks, and the same to you.
>
> -undopaminergic


- Scott


Some see things as they are and ask why.
I dream of things that never were and ask why not.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

 

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poster:SLS thread:1121301
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