Psycho-Babble Medication | about biological treatments | Framed
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Re: Clozapine not working now what????? yxibow

Posted by bleauberry on July 9, 2008, at 18:41:33

In reply to Re: Clozapine not working now what????? bleauberry, posted by yxibow on July 8, 2008, at 0:15:08

"The hoofprints definitely belong to a horse. Or do they? Did it cross anyone's mind it might be a zebra?"

I respectfully disagree strongly with pretty much everything here. It would be long and boring to most readers, and off topic for this thread. Just realize my input is not based on my own opinion, feelings, ideas, or unfounded internet sites. I prefer the growing body of scientific evidence, an already large body of anecdotal evidence, and real institutions that successfully treat people like Jereon with targeted approaches. We can leave it at that. If interested in more, start another thread and we'll talk about it.

Back on topic for the thread, I just want to reiterate that if practically all antipsychotics are not doing the job, or actually make things worse, well, duh, hello? Time to expand the thought processes? Time to reassess the diagnosis? Time to think outside the box maybe? It sure looks like psychosis, but that darned zebra.

I don't know what else Jereon has tried? Do we know Klonopin won't work? Do we know Memantine won't work? Do we know Magnesium Glycinate won't work? Do we know an anti-craziness herb won't work? Have we tested for intracellular copper? Have we checked a hair sample for mineral content, heavy metal content, lithium content, and the stories their comparative patterns tell? I doubt we know any of these things. I mention the above things because they are examples of things that have worked when psychiatry failed. All we know for sure is that the best of the best in the antipyschotic world have not worked. I don't know how many times we have to throw spaghetti at the wall until we realize it isn't sticking.

In the meantime, I give a thumbs up for a trial of Sulpiride. I personally think Amisulpride has a better chance, but they are similar enough, so who knows.

> I know you believe a lot in alternative therapy, and that's fine -- but vitamins are not going to stop schizophrenia, a disorder that has befounded medicine for more than 50 years, and neither copper nor aluminum nor magnesium are exactly heavy metals. They are ubiquitous on our planet, especially aluminum, a part of clay (kaolin) and soil. Copper is somewhat less ubiquitous than aluminum and in fact we are stripping the planet of it, but thats neither here nor there.
> Yes, I have heard of the reference to copper in the brains of people with schizophrenia, but at this point that is the same cause and effect argument as aluminum and Alzheimers. You can't escape aluminum on this planet as it is one of the most present elements.
> Lead is allowed up to 7% in brass faucets in the US for water systems, an alloy of copper and zinc and has been for many years. I don't think anyone has dropped dead of water faucets.
> It is some of the compounds of copper that are toxic, such as copper sulfate, a heavily used industrial compound. Not the metal itself. So don't cook in green rusted copper pots and don't put Miracle Gro in your koi ponds.
> It is clear that dopamine has some function in it -- there are many other areas unexplored, sigma receptors, other serotonin receptors, etc.
> If after exhaustive searches for a diagnosis for some years, I mean, Jeroen is free willed to do what he wants unless there really is a "psychotic episode" (which really can sound pejorative and not exactly a diagnostic name) and find other doctors for other therapy.
> I feel for you, Jeroen -- but as I have said, I don't think doses are high enough to make enough of a difference so that you can appreciate it. And again, I will say mea culpa if your doctors have done this already.
> I'm not for shoving APs down anybody but if there is an evidence based psychiatric diagnosis, then some use of it (MED) should make some difference. In the end, as all things, medication isn't everything. There is restructuring and reintegrating into the community and therapy which I hope is part of your plan from your doctors.
> -- best wishes
> Jay




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