Psycho-Babble Medication | about biological treatments | Framed
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Posted by Peter on August 20, 2003, at 7:08:30

In reply to Re: REALLY need advice just once more, posted by Jasmine Neroli on August 19, 2003, at 15:13:00

> Peter, I think you're sounding better!!!! Not so desparate.
Yeah, I agree with you about the NE/Dopa levels suddenly dropping, that would explain a lot. Maybe breaking up the 20mg Adderall into 4 doeses would even you out, but as you what a pain!!! Especially when you have to factor in Klonipin too. Makes me feel like you should just forget Adderall again. BTW re the expiry on the XR, my doctor once told me that shelf life on drugs lasts several months after the "best before" date, but she couldn't "officially" tell me it was ok to take it! So it may well be ok.
>>> Hey Jasmine. Not sure about the XR. It says 'Discard after 1/23/03.' And I remember my pdoc and I decided it's not smoother than the IR adderall, since it just releases 2 full doses 4 hours apart (it doesn't have that cool pulse-release mechanism that Concerta does - u know, a little bit at a time evenly throughout the day). And with the unsureness about the date, I might just stick w/IR.
I am doing better in terms of my extreme anxiety levels having been lowered. But the battle about the adderall is still going on in my head. On the one hand, while the klonopin alone has calmed my hysteria, it's also pushed my mood down overall - the fatigue and spaciness make me irritable and, though I feel less inhibited socially, I don't have the drive or clarity to act on that disinhibition. I also feel very understimulated and I've been resorting to drinking 2 beers and sometimes a glass of wine with dinner; I used to be a BIG drinker, but the adderall seemed to curb my alchol/drug cravings (another positive effect of it). Now, with just klonopin, I feel a need to somehow 'pep' myself up, and the alcohol is probably not a good idea while on this fairly high-dose klonopin; I noticed that even the first beer gave me a pretty big buzz, but by 9 or 10p.m I felt even more listless and down.
Back to the adderall argument. Conversely, I had actually made some pretty solid arguments for my NOT taking the adderall; I remember when I used to take 35mg daily for months, I got into an unhealthy state of social avoidance and isolation, and I think it did, to a degree, exacerbate my obsessive and anticipatory anxieties. But again, that was a higher dose with HALF the amount of klonopin I take now and the additional synergistic reactions of the 3 or 4 other meds I took simultaneously.
But I am afraid of the possbility of my getting trapped again into that self-absorbed, isolated, avoidant state. Because even though in hindsight I see how it was an unhealthy state to be in, at the time I was in a kind of denial and refused to reduce the adderall because I liked the feeling of avoiding life. On a positive note, I guess now that I'm aware of the adderall having placed me in that state, I can be more on the lookout, if I resume taking it, to make sure that it doesn't again happen.
Then there's the issue that I really felt that I accomplished a lot by tapering off the adderall once and for all, because we had tried before, but my brain had gotten so accustomed to it that I felt like I couldn't function everytime we tried to taper it and ended up always raising the dose back up. My pdoc seemed quite happy also when I finally tapered off it completely, because I believe he thought that it was doing me harm as well as good, and wasn't ideal for me. Maybe that's why he said during that last phone call that I should be very careful in assessing whether I should start up the adderall again, because I had accomplished a lot by getting off of it.
But he did also say that if I'm not 80% better that I should take the stimulant. The one day I tried it, as I told you, was good during the daytime but made me sort of inert and zombie-like 1 or 2 hours after the second 10mg dose. Like you said, though, it might be my body/mind seeing it as my taking it for the first time and my having to adjust to it. I don't know, it was nice to have that whole adderall monkey off my back, but I'm growing tired of waking up every day feeling like a drank a 5th of scotch the night before because of my 3.5-3.75mg daily klonopin , and I would like to be able to continue composing and practicing during this time, two things that require some energy. Also, though my pdoc returns Sept 2, my session with him isn't for another 10 days after that, and then if he prescribes me an AD, it'll be multiple weeks after that point until I start feeling more functional. That fact speaks more toward my taking the adderall now, n'est-ce pas? I just have to be careful I don't start increasing the dose to try to make it 'cover' me for the entire day, 'cause then I'll be up to a high dose and will then at some point have to again go through the sucky withdrawal from it. I'm pretty sure I'll get to a point, thoug, of wanting to manipulate the dose (raise it) so I don't 'crash' mid-evening; that is, after all, why I had climbed up to 35mg in the past (15mg + 20mg seemed to each last longer than single 10mg doses), but my pdoc said on the phone to take 10mg bid if i resume it. All this contradictory stuff said, yesterday I held to the first point of view and decided, with resolve, to NOT take the adderall. BUT, Today I woke up and stuck to the second standpoint and decided I SHOULD just take it for a few days - let's say 4 days, and then stop it if it still is creating all the moodiness it did that one day that I took it. So I took 10mg when I woke up today. BTW, Would I be able to stop it 'cold' after 4 days or will my body have adjusted enough to necessitate a taper?
All this back and forth reasoning is really annoying (I'm sure for you too!) - I can debate any side of this topic, and it's fairly frustrating.
> As to the intense crying spells etc....that maybe a sign of your extreme anxiety. I do exactly that ( and I'm not a "crier" usually)'s like a complete frustration expression welling up and overflowing, coupled with anger at myself/situation. It may not be a side-effect of Klonipin per se.Just a sign of how deep your anxiety is and how much it troubles you.
>>>I totally relate. I really never just break out crying for no apparent reason like I was doing, and I do think it was just a manifestation of my being so overwhelmed by my anxiety and frustrated/angry at myself that I'm in such a nice place yet not enjoying it.
>I dunno, I'm only just on Klonipin now and a low dose. I find no depression, just not much "pep". Apparently tho', you do adjust after 2 weeks. How long's it been on the higher Klonipin?
>>>Now it's 6 days. True that it helps my anxiety, but man I am not looking forward to the time when i'm gonna have to taper such a massive dose! Oh, and about adjusting after 2 weeks - hmm..I didn't think about that. I guess, though, that, while my fatigue might go away, I still would lack the pep&drive.
>Keep at it Peter. and yeah where are the travelogues???
>>>I think I still gotta work on what you said-thinking OUTSIDE of myself; but I'll give you something: I'm in the South. It's really beautiful; you can feel how clean and pollution-free the air is each time you breathe in. It's been a major heatwave, but is cooling down now. A nice break from NYC hecticness.
> BTW, I'm actually going away for 4 days now too, myself, but I will try to check this board in about 2 days. I'll be thinking about ya..even if I'm not actively responding. Others are hear to encourage too!
> a bientot!
>>>merci, Jasmine. A bientot!
> Jas




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