Psycho-Babble Medication | about biological treatments | Framed
This thread | Show all | Post follow-up | Start new thread | List of forums | Search | FAQ

Re: Larry, Re: The gut, and mental illness (long)

Posted by Larry Hoover on April 23, 2003, at 12:14:00

In reply to Larry, Re: The gut, and mental illness (long), posted by McPac on April 22, 2003, at 20:02:30

> >>>>>>>>>>Is there a lab test that could tell someone if they were/were not properly absorbing their nutrients?

Not that I know of. You use presumptive arguments. If deficiency is associated with a symptom, you have the symptom, and supplementation relieves the symptom, you may be on to something. You learn about yourself. You test things. You go with what seems to work.

> >>>>>>>>>Lar, here is a question that I have been wondering myself: Pfeiffer knows that neurotransmitters are made from amino acids (among other things) YET they don't have me on many amino acids at all, barely NONE (I think methionine is the only one). I would have thought a balanced amino acid supplement would have been useful. What do you think?

Restoring digestive processes (acid release and proteolytic enzyme function) solves the whole problem nicely. Protein deficiency due to low intake is unheard of, except in third world countries.

> 1. "Any hidden food allergy or allergies."
> >>>>>>>>>>> Do these allergies cause psychiatric problems due to Leaky Gut Syndrome, which leads to malabsorption problems? I have both food allergies (intolerance) and outdoor allergies. The food allergies cause my eyes to itch a lot. Could they also be causing far more serious problems? How can I tell if they are?

The only way I know is via elimination diets.

> Gluten is the bad boy in celiac sprue, and if you look at the data, about 2/3 of all people with celiac disorder have depression.
> >>>>>>I've read about gluten/casein free diets for psychiatric problems. Yet NEVER had a doctor mention it to me.

Doctors are trained to deal with overt clinical signs. I keep thinking of thyroid when I think of this, but your thyroid has to virtually shut down before a doctor will diagnose you as hypothyroid. However, it would be inconceivable that one day someone woke up, and their thyroid didn't work. There must be shades of gray between the black and the white.

When you're looking at food intolerances, both acute and chronic exposure are issues. Acute exposure can lead to very obvious digestive complaints, but chronic low-level exposure will also adversely affect digestive processes.

You mention casein as a possible irritant. You look at processed foods, and take note of how many times you see phrases in the ingredient list like, "modified milk ingredients", and similar. What the hell is that? And what is it doing in e.g. a baked sweet roll?

It becomes a huge effort to truly control for incidental exposure, and proper elimination and rechallenge (the process of purposeful intake of a potential irritant to confirm its effect).

> 2. "A yeast condition known as candida."
> Whether candidiasis is a clinical entity or not is debatable
> >>>>>>>>>I know this is controversial...but I don't know why....aren't there tests to show whether one has candida?

Only for massive overt infection, not for the chronic form most mentioned in the alternative literature.

> >>>>>>>>>Again, I am on nothing from Pfeiffer (as far as I know) to address digestive enzyme issues. Yet Pfeiffer is supposed to be very highly regarded in what they do (nutritional biochemical treatment). Why don't they know about this point (I'm sure they do), why don't they treat it?

You'd better ask them, not me. Sorry. That was a bit snide. You can't hurt yourself by trying enzyme therapy.

> 4. "A lack of the ability to produce enough stomach acid."
> The effect is iatrogenic (doctor-caused) hypochlorhydria (low stomach acid) or achlorhydria (absent stomach acid). Doctors would have you believe that these situations are benign, but I must vehemently disagree.
> >>>>>>>>>Is this because Dr's WANT us to keep coming back over and over again, because they want to prescribe their high-priced drugs instead or what?

They have been taught that the low-acid conditions are benign. Think about it. You come in to the doctor complaining of heartburn, he gives you a pill that solves the heartburn problem. He's not trained to predict whether the solution will itself create a new problem, particularly one so subtle that its true impact may take years to develop.

> So what to do about it? I came to believe that four supplements would have a significant impact: B-12, betaine, bromelain, and magnesium. So, what was the outcome of my supplement trials? Within two weeks I stopped using omeprazole. I have not had GERD since (over a year now). My irritable bowel has been substantially stable
> >>>>>>>>>Would these 4 ingredients be useful for most folks that had malabsorption issues?
> (I'm taking all of these except for the bromelain).

It depends on the individual circumstances. Those worked for my GERD. And, I believe that I also addressed one major factor influencing my own malabsorption syndrome. I can't generalize from my experience to all people.

> >>>>>>>>Why can some people eat nothing but pure trashy diets, JUNK foods, constant sweets, chocolate non-stop, mega caffeine, even drink non-stop booze, chain smoke, yet NOT have these psychiatric problems.....I'm rambling but WHY are WE SO affected by even slight dietary transgressions! (You don't have to answer, I'm just venting because sometimes it seems like any little fart can push US (psych. patients) over the edge!)

We're canaries. Somebody has to be the canary.

> restoring the supply of nutrients and regulation of digestion will result in a shift in bacterial populations.
> >>>>>>>>Larry, important point here....I recently read that, for MOST folks, diet wasn't much of a factor in causing this "bad" bacteria shift but rather STRESS was the big factor! Sure makes sense to me!!! STRESS is the SOB that leads to everything going haywire in the body and eventually mind! I'm NOT talking very scientific there, I know, but in plain English STRESS is the precursor of all the bad things that follow. (I sometimes think that if I could live on my own island that most of my problems would vanish).

Stress isn't the bad boy, it's how you deal with it. Stress is unavoidable, and natural. Our environment has always been stressful. Chronic stress, *in the absence of restorative diet*, can lead to health problems. The phrase I emphasized there was one I made up in hopes of concisely defining the issue. Fed properly, you will handle stress better. I know there are a zillion exceptions, but how often do you think diet when you think stress?

> That said, taking probiotics cannot hurt, and may well help the process along. I have yet to see convincing evidence of efficacy
> >>>>>>>I have read many accounts (NOT clinical studies) of people/natural practitioners citing very positive results but of course the allopathic monopoly doesn't want anybody hearing that. The "natural" methods receive puny funding, comparatively speaking to the allopathic monopoly. I take many studies w/ a grain of salt.

The issue is one of controlling variables, not one of not wanting to learn the outcome. By far, the bulk of all the reports citing beneficial effects from probiotics are anecdotal and not double-blind.

Statistics cannot be applied to individuals, right? Well, it works both ways. You cannot generate statistics from individual experience. In other words, you can't define a pattern from anecdote.

> , except in the case of subjects who have been treated with massive doses of systemic antibiotics (like me, right now, for the pneumonia). I will certainly take probiotics after I'm off the antibiotics.
> >>>>>>>>> If you took both anti- and pro- biotics at the same time they would just negate each other correct (just wondering)?

I'd just kill the probiotic culture. I'd be wasting my money. 24 hours after my last dose of antibiotic, I'll start taking the probiotics.

> 6. "A lack of various nutrients"
> I think you know where I stand on that.
> >>>>> So...solving a malabsorption problem (caused by leaky gut for example) could result in somebody maybe not even needing many additional supplements?

It depends on the individual. Leaky gut syndrome is a conceptual entity, not a defined process.

> 7. "The possibility of parasites."
> >>>>>>>> Again, as with candida, couldn't someone be tested to see if they have parasites?
> Wouldn't this be easy to determine?

Most of the time.

> >>>>>>>Another thought...with stress being such a factor in leading to leaky gut, which leads to malabsorption, which leads on and on and on to so many problems....that is why Skilled Relaxation is said to be SOOOO important by many natural healers, because it decreases stress, thereby healing the leaky gut problem, thereby resolving a host of problems....stress definitely SUCKS!

It's another factor, which alone, cannot solve the problem. You will have the best oucomes through combining a number of techniques. Your approach should address physical, social, psychological, environmental, and spiritual factors.





Post a new follow-up

Your message only Include above post

Notify the administrators

They will then review this post with the posting guidelines in mind.

To contact them about something other than this post, please use this form instead.


Start a new thread

Google www
Search options and examples
[amazon] for

This thread | Show all | Post follow-up | Start new thread | FAQ
Psycho-Babble Medication | Framed

poster:Larry Hoover thread:221042