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Re: ADD stimulants similarities to Cocaine Meth.

Posted by azurebay on May 22, 2002, at 18:35:43

In reply to ADD stimulants similarities to Cocaine Meth. katekite, posted by 3 Beer Effect on May 17, 2002, at 13:43:50

> Katekite,
> If I were a psychiatrist or doctor I don't think I would prescribe Ritalin, Adderall, Focalin, or Dexedrine/Dextrostat to a previous Cocaine, Speed/Crystal Methamphetamine, or multiple-drug abuser.

Love the name 3Beers (and hi Ketekite):

However I disagree with you regarding former substance abusers and the prescribing of ADD/ADHD medications. Granted, it may be questionable in some situations, even this one. But you must know the research behind ADD/ADHD(?)

An extremely high percentage (depending on which study you read, but in almost every single one where substance abuse is related to ADD...), the person has little if ANY desire to abuse the neurostimulant. In fact, it is quite the opposite response.

The bottom-line question of importance, yet again, is getting THE correct diagnosis by a psychiatrist, not a GP or any other doc.

I can tell you with absolute, one-hundred-percent certainty that I, as a former substance abuser, did not in the least manner have any tendiency to abuse neurostimulant medication. And I never have, in going on three-something years. It was like a feeling of, "Finally... wow I can function half-normal!"

Ya, I certainly discovered other comorbid problems underneath the ADD, but with the right psychiatrist they, too, are now like night and day compared to even two years ago.

So, I totally challenge the idea that substance abusers will abuse psychostimulant medications, assuming they are properly diagnosed with true ADD/ADHD. And I believe the vast majority of research confirms that point.

Smiles Always,


> From personal experience, the temptation to abuse these drugs for former drug abusers & sometimes even plain old alcoholics is great.
> A big problem is that all of the Schedule II ADD stimulants are very easy to abuse & they are very powerful drugs.
> All one has to do is save up a few days worth of medication (40+ mg Adderall, or 60+ mg Ritalin), crush them up with a credit card or better yet the available everywhere otc "pill pulverizer" and snort them in a manner similar to powder Cocaine hcl with a dollar bill (dirty) or as a cleaner method they use a shortened unused Slurpee straw, empty pen tube, or even a rolled up post-it note.
> I think the street name for Ritalin is "West Coast", while College Kids call it "Vitamin R" or "Rit". Oddly enough, on the 'street', intranasal Ritalin with either oral Zoloft (Zoomers) or pentazocine (T's & Rits/Poor Man's Heroin) are sometimes (though rarely) used combinations. Generally, ADD stimulants (with the exception of Desoxyn) are derided as "kiddy drugs" in the ghetto & aren't being sold by/diverted to traditional drug dealers. The people doing the dealing are children or college kids with ADD prescriptions who obviously dislike (children are said to experience dysphoria on Ritalin/Adderall) or don't need/have too much of the medication in the case of college kids.
> Granted, these medicines do not offer anywhere near the euphoria of crack cocaine or crystal methamphetamine.
> BUT, the major draw & temptation to misuse/abuse these ADD stims is that they are easily available, & pharmaceutically pure so you know what you are getting, while street drugs like Cocaine & Speed are adulterated/cut with all sorts of things from Ephedrine, Caffeine, Procaine, Benzocaine, Vitamin b-12, laxatives, baking soda, & even strychnine (a very dangerous stimulant also used as a rat poison!).
> Also, business professionals & college students can abuse these stims (intranasally or orally) to gain a competitive work/academic edge without any obvious external symptoms of drug abuse & without the danger/risk of arrest that comes with going to the ghetto to buy street drugs out in public from armed & very paranoid drug dealers.
> From personal experience, Ritalin & Adderall in adequate dosages intranasally produce an much longer lasting "high" that roughly parallels the "high" from the "cut/highly diluted" poor quality 'powder' Cocaine hcl available in most areas of the US (excluding of course areas close to Mexico with higher quality cocaine especially Southern California, & also AZ, NM, Texas-south of San Antonio, & the port cities of Houston & Miami, FL).
> Adderall in high enough doses causes mild visual hallucinations, & Adderall combined with Ritalin intranasally produces a double whammy effect of extensive dopamine release & blocking of its reuputake causing a "high" with euphoric & somewhat hallucinogenic properties that is very close or equal to the powerful street drugs intranasal methamphetamine hcl or relatively 'uncut' powder cocaine hcl like that available in Mexico border cities, but thankfully, no one has seemed to figure this out yet. But I would guess the risk of adverse (hypertensive) effects of this combination is great- much greater than Adderall or Ritalin alone.
> The new ADD stimulant, Focalin, eliminates half of Ritalin-all of which is the inactive isomer & so is basically useless/filler, retaining only the active d-isomer, & has no color additives & a limited amounts of dilutents/inactive ingredients & if abused intranasally would probably be much more potent in its effects than Ritalin.
> Very surprisingly, Dexedrine & Dextrostat are arguably stronger than Adderall when taken orally, but intranasally are less effective probably because they are much more diluted with inactive ingredients (A 5 mg Dexedrine pill contains 13.8 mg of sucrose along with 4 other inactive ingredients/dilutents, & a 10 mg Dextrostat pill is about equal to the size of a 30 mg Adderall pill indicating that it contains a large amount of inactive ingredients/dilutents. I don't know if these (50+ year old pills) have always contained so many inactive ingredients- I do know that many years ago Dexedrine was once available in 10 mg pills & in an elixir form that was discontinued a few years back. Perhaps the makers of Dexedrine & Dextrostat learned from the speed epidemic of the late 1960s & diluted the pills enough so that when an attempt at intranasal abuse is made, the bulky inactive ingredients greatly slow the absorption into the bloodstream, thus greatly reducing the high & making intransal abuse almost pointless.
> I think the best choice for a former stimulant drug addict would be Wellbutrin SR since street drug use is self-medication often for both depression & adult add, & Wellbutrin SR often clears up both, but its risk of abuse is low.
> Another good choice, would be Concerta. Concerta cannot really be abused intranasally, & there have been reports of failed attempts at this by adolescents.
> Other possible choices would include Adderall XR or Dexedrine Spansules, but only assuming that the pellets inside the capsules cannot be grinded up into a dry powder (which I don't know the answer to & haven't read anything on this).
> Perhaps, the best thing would be to educate the former drug abuser on the futility on intranasal abuse. For example, the intranasal abuse of Ritalin by college kids in order to study & focus better is self-defeating, because Ritalin only lasts for one hour intranasally, while if swallowed on an empty stomach provides about 3.5 hours of efficacy. Tolerance to Ritalin skyrockets when used intranasally at a ridiculous rate. But with a proper oral regimen, tolerance to Ritalin (or Adderall) is a slow process easily fixed by taking stimulant breaks on weekends or stimulant holidays.
> But remember, drugs like Ritalin & Adderall can be abused orally, so everyone should be careful when taking ADD stimulants. Anytime you are "saving up", or "taking double doses" it often begins a viscious circle of last minute procrastination of work/study/deadlines that you often meet successfully for the first few times (by escalating the dosage), but eventually this sporadic dosage escalation induces 'pyschological dependence' & tolerance- you find that your prescribed dose no longer works as well as it used to & you begin to believe that you won't be able to work or study even normally, without the x dose of Ritalin/Adderall that helped you meet that deadline/cram/stay up all night in the past.
> So remember that even though Ritalin/Adderall/Dexedrine etc are not "physically" addictive, they are still powerful DEA Schedule II Drugs [the same class as prescription Cocaine, Desoxyn (methamphetamine hcl), Seconal, Oxycontin, Dilaudid ("drugstore heroin"), Percocet, Morphine etc.] that some, especially adults, can become "psychologically" addicted to resulting in dose escalation & abuse. So remember to periodically take weekend breaks (Ask yourself if really need that Ritalin on a Friday afternoon/night) & when tolerance builds take a week off "a stimulant holiday".
> 3 Beers.....




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