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Re: hanging in there Ľ shelliR

Posted by Lorraine on October 31, 2001, at 13:13:21

In reply to Re: hanging in there Ľ Lorraine, posted by shelliR on October 28, 2001, at 23:03:08

Hi Shelli:

I've been painting again so just returned.

> >
> > > > >I didn't realize that you thought that you had pushed yourself into depression. I thought you thought it was more hormonal.

By the way, Shelli, I do think it was part hormonal. They say that the times that a woman is more likely to become depressed are during times of hormone change and I was perimenopausal. My new regular doctor told me to take phosphorylated serine to reduce my cortisol output at night.

> I had misunderstood that. I thought you quit your job to spend more time with your children. But maybe they both are true?

I didn't quit to be with my children, but being with them is a benefit of having quit. Plus, in therapy after I quit, I realized that I had been repeating a cycle of abandonment in my family by simply "not being there" because my work required that I work incredible hours and bring home work besides.

> >I sort of think two things are happening in therapy, either simultaneously or sequentially. One is dealing with old stuff to get past them, process, grieve, or whatever it takes. The other is more cognitive; sort of given who I am, what are my goals, what gets in the way, and how to I work with the things that get in the way. Right now what happened when I was eight is not feeling all that important. My internal focus is still mostly on the little ones. because they talk a lot. But I could see a situation, like if I get involved in a intimate relationship where their goals and mine may differ, and I would have to deal with simultaneous old pain and as well as new life issues. Right now all my focus in on to find meds that work and finish all my work that is promised, which now feels impossible.

Shelli, my son is having an amazing experience with his cognitive therapist. The whole family went in for a two hour session and I have to say it was incredible. There was very little interest in how we were feeling except to the extent that those feelings could be used to trace maladaptive thought patterns. Within the 2 hours, this man "nailed" each of us pretty accurately. I was amazed because the realizations that I walked out with would have taken a year or so in regular therapy. Plus, he nailed my daughter--who is so sweet and lovely that most therapists just nod and grin because she is not a "problem". Anyway, if you switch therapists you might want to try cognitive therapy for a stretch. I found my therapist by researching Beck's (the founder of cognitive therapy) site--he's in Pennsylvania, I believe. My guy co-wrote a number of books with him. I do think that it is a matter of how gifted the therapist is.

> Iím not sure what I am doing in therapy now; I think I basically need a center of support that I canít give myself.

That is a useful way for you right now.

> > > That's interesting for me, because I never think much about maintaining a marriage as being a different subject than maintaining a family. People I know with small children seem to spent about 100% of their energy outside of work (especially if both parents work) with their children. But I am, I suppose, not seeing the "couple part". Like sex is definitely about couples and not children.

Right and there are only so many hours in the day. People need time to work, be with their kids, be with each other and be alone. It's hard to fit it all in. The being with each other tends to fall to the wayside unless a concerted effort is made to stay connected.

> >All my relationships have been so short (all under two years) that sex was an overwhelming part of our time. (Like almost every time we saw each other). I have always wondered first what it would be like to be in a relationship which includes sex but not as the main focus and also why so many people have so little sex (statistically). Not you Lorraine!--no seriously, I know it is a big important part of your marriage. With my good friends who are married, it seems to be an important part of their marriages, and I can get it about being tired with babies, but otherwise, why do you think intimacy in marriage drops so much lower after time? I wonder if a lot of people donít really like each other any more, but itís too hard to make such major changes (like leaving). Of course our divorce rate is high anyway.

I think there are a number of factors. One is that once you have been with someone a number of years, the sex falls off because the "excitement" factor of having a new lover is not there. Another is that people simply do not "work" on their relationships and my experience is that unless you actively work on your relationships, miscommunications occur which over time tend to make people drift apart. The glow of he can "do no wrong" which is so chemically driven gets replaced by annoyances at all the petty habits that people have that drive you crazy. You have to be willing to find those habits "endearing". I also think that keen driving sexual interest that people have before the relationship has "baked" or settled into a long term commitment is part of nature driving us to reproduce. We have lost the art of commiting to people and valuing connection above instant gratification--which is why a lot of people switch partners or have lovers--to embrace the "spark" rather than tend the fire over time.

> > Do you mean in the sense that all trauma changes brain chemistry, or something different?

All serious physical trauma before a certain age affects brain development by damaging the cortisol system (they say)and your ability to deal with stress. I have also read of a connection between burns and depression.

> You donít remember before eight at all?

Very, very little. I created a timeline for a therapist once and had to go to my mother and my brother to fill it in.

> > I sort of have the same sense of gratitude toward my inside kids because they are able to live things I was not or could not feel.

So they represent an important part of you.

> > Now itís Sunday, and my ankles are still so swollen.

Shelli, edema is a side-effect of Nardil. I am struggling right now with swollen joints in my fingers and real difficulty with my night vision and driving. I am lowering my Nardil dose from 45 to 30 to see if it helps. Read this article: "Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors: Adverse Effects" by Paul Perry

Among the side effects noted for Nardil are the following: Syncope (fainting), Disorientation, Edema, Rash (I had this, remember?), Weight Gain, Urinary Retention, Paresthesias (which I think is the numbness in my hands now), Drowsy, and Anorgasmia. Some of these, like rash are not common, but you know me, if there is a possible side effect, I will find a way to have it:-)

Iíve been working every day and I feel tired and scared. Like I canít deal with things going wrong aside from depression. My car lights are not working right (only the brights and dims work), but I canít give up my car. Last time it took several days for them to get it back to me. Times like this I would like someone to just take care of me.
> How is your nardil is working and that some of the side stuff you are working through. Have you tried the adderal yet?

I am taking adderal with it now. It works pretty well in terms of energy and appetite supression. The pain is taking it 3 times a day because of the ups and downs that creates. But adderal is coming out with a time release once a day thing which I am looking forward to.

> > >My pdoc added some ritalin in the morning (along with concerta)to try to help the oxycontin kick in faster, but it didnít do anything.

I'm sorry to here that. I think amphetamines either work right away or not--is your dose high enough?

> > >I am still feeling somewhat depressed and extremely oversensitive, but at least there is a bottom on the depression.

So you have response but not remission? The Nardil is really bringing me out of my depression so I'm hoping I can deal with the side effects. One of the options for the sexual side effects is to take an antihitamine (cyproheptadine). I'm wondering if that is why you do not experience the sexual dysfunction.

I donít know what drug the ankle swelling is related to.

I vote for Nardil. Here's an interesting article on Edema entitled EDEMA - PATHOPHYSIOLOGY AND TREATMENT by Donald E. Kohan, M.D., Ph.D.

He suggests that, although edema is not a medical emergency, it is important to find out the underlying cause of the edema rather than simply treating it with diuretics.

I hope things improve for you. It was nice to hear from you.





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