Psycho-Babble Social Thread 1108638

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Higher Research Degrees

Posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2020, at 12:34:54

The issue seems to be that the University genuinely believes the thesis needs to be perfect -- or they can / are supposed to fail it.

If the examiners find a single typographical error then that means they do not accept the thesis in it's present state / form.

That means the Univeristy is justified in requiring an additional 6 months work and even justified in failing it.

The only thing preventing them doing that is the mercy of them.

They genuinely seem to think that.

All the outcomes of examination in the Calendar: a -accepted with no changes. b-accepted with minor typographical changes. c-accepted with substantive changes within 10 weeks. d-proceed to oral defence. e- re-enrol and re-examine after 6 months. f-fail.

THey honestly believe that unless the examiners effectively say 'a' in their reports that it is based in the reports to deliver e or f. It is based in the reprots becuase the examiners do not accept the thesis in its present form.

This is lunacy -- right?

Either a or f and by the way e (we underbid for the contract, actually and you are required to pay half as much in fees again as you have already paid or you will not qualify to complete the Degree.

But it's at the discretion of the Dean.

So the Dean turns it into a bums on seats degree. Once they have you working for the maximum time (they can only require re-enrolment once) then they basically choose what to do with you.

So the whole thing becomes about everybody copy editing everything the way they like it.

YOu could give them something spat out of the post-modernist essay generator.

Supervisor line by line rewrites it.

Send it to examiners.

They line by line rewrite it.

You pay 6 months fees.

YOu hope they accept your line by line revisions without finding a typo.

Or... YOu best be making the Dean as happy as happy as happy can be otherwise you fail.


This is academia.


The intellectual brains.

Everybody wants to be an editor while screaming at everybody else that their work isn't good enough and they fail!


It's really not supposed to be like that.

It doesn't have to be perfect.

I find typographical errors in most everything I read.

SO what.

People over-focus on them and the meaning falls out.

That's what's happened with it.

I do have to take it through the courts.

To see whether the judge thinks it is in fact based in the reports of examiners to require (only some) students re-enrol and then to fail (only some) students simply because the examiners found a typo / did not give it an a.

Because I have the capacity to do that, you see.

Because I have the capacity to do that I must be forced to do that. I must be forced to clean up after other peoples lunatic f*ck ups.

F*ck*ng idiots.

The cost of doign business in NZ.

Unnecessary delays and stupdi decisions.


Re: Higher Research Degrees

Posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2020, at 12:42:56

In reply to Higher Research Degrees, posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2020, at 12:34:54

THey keep going on about the requirement of the examiners to return the thesis to the candidate is merely historic and the fact that the examiners didn't return the thesis to the candidate doesn't mean anything...

But I was required to physically bind 3 soft copies. 2 for examiners. 1 for a third examiner in the case of divergent outcomes. 2/3 theses are supposed to be returned to me if the examiners require re-enrolment.

It's my f*ck*ng intellectual property.

I wrote a book. I physically printed the book.

THe examiners kept it. THey have it sitting on their shelves at home. My intellectual property.

While the University swears that they haven't accepted it and have failed it.

They have f*ck*ng kept it as a f*ck*ng trophy.

Nobody thinks that there is anything just a little bit wrong with the situation?

That just doesn't occur to anybody at all?

I knoooooooooooooooooow they are trying to teach me a lessssssssssssssssssssson in how the coooooooooooooooooost of doing businesssssssssssssssss in this heellllllll hooole makes it such that goood people can't do business with us.

It is too costly to punish. You just gotta flee.

So they back me into a corner.

CHeapest lawyer ever.

I f*ck*ng hate them all.


And then they get sick.


National Standards

Posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2020, at 20:13:00

In reply to Re: Higher Research Degrees, posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2020, at 12:42:56

National Standards are only an improvement when the previous was Regional Standards. National Standards are a regression when the previous was International.

Sensible thing in the paper:

We will invest in developing a National Standard for Maaori Dance (or whatever) to be taught in Secondary Schools.

We will stop trying to develop National Standard for Art History and Latin and so on.

Our Universities have been disregarding the reports of examiners -- particularly the reports of examiners outside NZ. At least 1 examiner on higher research Degrees is supposed to be appointed from outside Australasia.

Mine was sent to a Canadian.

They retain my intellectual property. The thesis that was physically posted to them was retained by them to signify that they had accepted it. They didn't reject it / return post it to the student with instructions to re-enrol and keep working and try another submission to examiners again in 6 months.

And the examiners watch as Waikato dithers about. Takes all the time there is and then some. Takes as much time as they can. Then fails the student.

Apparently one single typographical error means the Dean has the authority to pronounce that hte thesis is unacceptable in it's present state and therefore has been failed.

THey think they are clever. They go a = pass and everything else from b-e = fail. Strictly.

YOu know, unless you offer bl*w j*bs to the Dean (or whatever metaphoric equivalent).

The Dean chooses to grant you mercy.

If you are on your best behavior. Over the maximum amount of time they can obtain fees from you.

Nasty people.


Re: Higher Research Degrees

Posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2020, at 20:25:33

In reply to Re: Higher Research Degrees, posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2020, at 12:42:56

make us make us make us make us make us.

they are trying to force me to take it to the high court and request judicial review of administrative action.

because this is where things are at in NZ.

studnets are never failed for graduate research degrees -- (except me). students are passed for them... but the issue is EVENTUALLY. they are always forced to hand over maximum fees the university can get out of the student before they are done. and things get over-processed to the point where the content / meaning falls out.

i suppose the idea is to not sign off until the studnet... retired. has retired.

i suppose that is what they are trying to do with medicine. if i get to do it at all. they will never pay me to do it. they will never pay me a living wage to do anything at all. Administrators and officials take all the money and there isn't any money for the likes of me.

they think they are clever. they think there is genuine ambiguity in the rules / regulations.

but they aren't any good.

that's their trouble

they simply are't any good.


Re: Higher Research Degrees

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 23, 2020, at 20:35:27

In reply to Re: Higher Research Degrees, posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2020, at 20:25:33

One typo = fail? What degree are you working on? For my paper, it was one plagiarism = fail


Re: Higher Research Degrees

Posted by alexandra_k on February 24, 2020, at 8:56:18

In reply to Re: Higher Research Degrees, posted by Lamdage22 on February 23, 2020, at 20:35:27

> One typo = fail? What degree are you working on? For my paper, it was one plagiarism = fail

higher research degree.

the dean thinks that since the degree is pass or fail (ungraded) unless both examiners state it is accepted in it's present state (without requiring so much as a typographical error) then she can choose whatever she likes...

she chooses to say the candidate is required to keep workign for an additional 6 months (repeat half the program of study) in the first case. so i'm invoiced for more fees. then undergo another round of examination. so the tertiary education commission (govt dept) is invoiced for more fees.

but she can only do that once. so if as little as two typographical errors are found on the second examination then she can fail the thesis because the examiners agreed it isn't acceptable in it's present state. of course she could have outright failed it the first time, but why do that when you can collect more money from the student on their way out?

so it becomes a degree about sucking up to the dean. because the dean does what the dean likes. examiners always will find at least a typographical error, you see.

I think it is absurd to think that that is apprpropriate basis in the reports of the examiners.

there is this thing about how the re-enrol and re-submit outcome requires the thesis to be returned to the candiate. the Dean laughed it off as historic or metaphoric. but the examiners have retained my intellectual property. she physically gave them my thesis. she physically flunks me out of the university. they look and see whether a thesis has been lodged in the library and, if not... do i expect to see them publish it or sell it on at some point?

i am not questioning the integritiy of the examiners...


why haven't the examiners taken teh university to task for their not being my thesis in the library??

our universities aren't playing by the rules on international standards. we aren't participating in the process of objective / independent assessment. we won't allow our students to be selected on thier merits.

i hear that's the problem in india, too. the caste system or whatever. they have buses taking kids to their examination rooms. differnt kids going ot differnt rooms. the kind of plagarism or cheating or whatever is being largely driven by the authorities. those whose very job it is to police.

our local communities... the ones the kids wanted to get out of and away from... the local communities are present / represented or whatever in the universities here, now. they decide what degree is right for you and what grades you are allowed to have. which kids get seen for which things when it comes to national or even international selection for whatever reasons and purposes.

to many chiefs trying to control everything the way they think is best.

i got failed for population health because i did reference according to international standards. only i'm not sure... we werent' allowed to direct quote. we were allowed to rephrase things in our own words, only, and then put the name of someone at the end of the sentance for a reference. we were encouraged to make use of 'grey literature' which is to say they didn't want us using academic writing. not summarising it not responding to it not having an opinion on it.

we were supposed to turn their powerpoint slides into an essay. just link together the sentences.

so that anyone looking on with independent eyes...

would think we all are stupid.

Waikato (many Univeristies actually) are financially invsted in having people believe their students are slow.

The examiners don't know why my work wasn't forwarded to them for sign off within 10 weeks.

I did the work.

The Dean refused to forward it on.

She didn't even ALLOW the examiners to sign me off IF THEY CHOSE

and she decided to fail me because i didn't play this game of doing what she said when she said because she said suck suck suck sucking up to her... taking 5 years to do 1 years work...

and now i'm expected to get my degree out of them in the courts (if i get it ever at all).

the cost of doing business with idiots / psychopaths.

the low road to growth.

they don't want to be a *good* university that people would *choose* to go to. where employers *want* to hire competent grads and where people remember their uni experiences *fondly*.

they want to keep masses of slaves in apalling conditions. never crediting or acknowldeging work. stealing work. passing it off as their own. having the studnets thow money at the university...

grad research degrees are supposed to be final hoops.

they try and force people to be stuck there indefinately.

i didn't want to join them. i didn't want my phd. i didn't want to be part of that awful system.

so they are determined to fail me.

to teach me a lesson.

and auckland refuses to properly process applications...


Re: Higher Research Degrees

Posted by alexandra_k on February 24, 2020, at 9:13:44

In reply to Re: Higher Research Degrees, posted by alexandra_k on February 24, 2020, at 8:56:18

our national standards are not development, they are regression or de-evolution from international standards.

we don't do blind grading.

we don't base the outcome of examination on the reports of examiners (we don't even seem to know what this means).

people with power use their power to profit themselves / their cronies at the expense of the weak / disadvantaged. they use their power to produce further inequality. further advantages and benefits and rewards to those who are most advantaged already at the cost of detriment of everyone else.

i thought the requirement to do a degree from a NZ uni in the minimum / normal / standard time within the last 5 years was about fairness. to protect against corrupt influence. but now i think that this requirement is itself the corrupt influence.

it is the start of the slippery slope of New Zealand Universities not acknowledging their own qualifications after 5 years have passed.

Degrees expire - didn't you know?

Massey called, VC. Your PhD was conferred more than 5 years ago so now you have to give your Degree back. Turns out you aren't qualified for your job, anymore.

There has been a development of an online records keeping / sharing national system. It appears that Univerities in NZ can just, you know, digitally alter transcripts...

But then, what's to stop / prevent them from simply denying they know you if an employer phones them up to ask about a qualification or transcript?

What's the transcript printed on? It it legitimate? How hard is it to fake?

These are all questions / issues... I'm seeing these are important.

People in NZ are not wanting to acknowledge / recognise my previous Degrees from Waikato. Waikato isn't wanting to acknowlege / recognise my previous Degrees from Waikato.

I got good grades for psychology. THe lecturers gave us the multiple choice tests that were written by teh textbook writers. We had high quality informaiton, in other worrds. THe lecturers tried to walk us through the content, and we had well written questions on exams.

But the students don't get well written questions on exams so much, anymore. THey get ill formed questions or they get nonsense questions or they get questions on content they weren't taught.. Who knows how grades are selected to students. It seems tobe less and less and less aboaut performance. It's more and more and more about brownnosing to the person in charge of the class / the grading. The person in charge seems to be selected for their job precisely because they lack the capacity to do the things they are 'teaching' and precisely because they actively prevent or obstruct tehir students development.


I have been thinking about how people who can't hear spontaneously develop sign language. The drive to communicate... People will find a way.

It takes a lot of external manipulation and control and shaming and so on to prevent deaf people from doing that. If you put them together in deaf school and try and force them only to use non sign, I mean.

I have been thinking about socioeconomic development... About the external control that there is such that NZ is always always always being held back. Why it is that our people aren't developing. All the things that to into making that be the case.

I don't think that it is the case that organisational complexity requires omre effort. I Think that is the default pathway. I think that more effort is expended in keeping things backwards.


Re: Higher Research Degrees

Posted by alexandra_k on February 24, 2020, at 9:28:50

In reply to Re: Higher Research Degrees, posted by alexandra_k on February 24, 2020, at 9:13:44

I guess the issue was you had two kinds of students who were doing well at undergraduate level in a system that rewarded natural ability and hard work.

One lot were focused on getting at high up their local hierarchy as they could as quickly as they could. Stayed in NZ and completed their Degree in NZ. Worked their way up through the University system. Council etc.

Another lot had more of an eye to what was happening overseas. Wanted to learn things where their was not local expertise. Put their progression on hold to try and get to go offshore for the opportunity to learn things there that couldn't be learned back home.

Then some of the later people come back and the people who stayed don't take too kindly. Don't take too kindly to people trying to use the skills and knowledge they developed overseas for the good of local communities.

You have these heads of local communities... And that's what they've been doing.. Controlling their local communities for however long.

In a country the size of Sydney we don't have a national health system. In a country the size of North Carolina we don't have a national health system (a state health system, if you like).

Our Universities have stopped recognising each others degrees. Their own Degreees. YOu know you have gone to far when you are trying to deny your own Degrees.

When you aren't workign towards developing consistency and coherence with the world stage...

Auckland has seen itself as the head of a hierarchy for quite some time. Exponentially better than the other Universities in NZ.

It didn't have it's sights on how the developed world was receeding.

It is a bit unclear to me...

It looks... From what I can see (I don't care enough to read the regualtions particularly so from the 'explainign regulations to you' infromation). It looks like the reports of examiners are not provided to the student who is being examined. the panel decidees.

on the basis of...

the panel decides.

the panel decides if you have done enough for a higher degree.

the admissions committee decides if they will offer you a plce from your rank score or if they are going ot re-rank score you lower by denying some evidnece or if they are going to deny eligibility.

still.. andrea howard decided what was going to be given to the admissions committee in Otago. so... andrea howard decides.

all these people who decide...

on the basis of?

on the basis of?

you chat to them and hear their reasoning... reasoning isn't going on. i don't know if it's something in the water. they seem very genuine about it... but it's weak excuses for decisions made that were not made on the basis of reasons.

trash heap of the world


Re: Higher Research Degrees

Posted by alexandra_k on February 24, 2020, at 9:34:18

In reply to Re: Higher Research Degrees, posted by alexandra_k on February 24, 2020, at 9:28:50

and our professional degrees (medicine, engineering, law) are given to the kids of those people (and the university administration) when they are as young as they can be. entrance to those programs when they are 18 or 19. it is their birth right, you see. and we want them young. when they are young and naieve enough to have big wide eyes and find us motivating and inspiring.

and i am not of that cohort.

so my application looks wrong.

so they don't wnat to process it.

they don't want me to get to do it.

it's basically as simple as that.


Re: Higher Research Degrees

Posted by alexandra_k on February 24, 2020, at 9:39:53

In reply to Re: Higher Research Degrees, posted by alexandra_k on February 24, 2020, at 9:34:18

and the people in charge don't really understand because all they understand is the motivation or drive or desire to work your way up the hierarchy.

and the hierarchy is a pyramid, anyway.

so it doesn't matter if you do a degree in philosophy or management or law or medicine you are all aiming for the same place: the top of administration.

so they don't understand what my problem is that i don't settle in for 5 or 7 years of suck suck suck suck sucking up the fact that people will revise a PhD thesis around and around and around while I marvel at their brillance...

for the opportunity to come out further ahead on the whole ascension life-plan thing.

they don't understand...

things like intellectual curiosity. or the idea of people being motivated and inspired towards particular subject matter. these sorts of things they don't really get.

medicine is just a place on a hierarchy for them.

and the bulk of the people who 'make it' in medicine end up not even practicing medicine! they end up as board members or administrators or even philosophy academics! so it doesn't matter what you study / what you learn.

so they don't comprehend the harms the inflict upon me.


oppositional definance

Posted by alexandra_k on February 24, 2020, at 9:55:42

In reply to Re: Higher Research Degrees, posted by alexandra_k on February 24, 2020, at 9:39:53

They are basically just refusing to process my stuff.

I didn't agree to spend 5 years working on the MPhil to come out with a Degree where everybody would think I was stupid for taking 5 years to do 1 years work.

I insisted on working to time.

So they stop work. 'Make us'.

They think they are teaching me a lesson in how it's just simpler to do whatever they want.

You know, the person in charge of you wants to abuse you. Wants you to do x or y or z otherwise they'll withhold basic resources from you... You can do what they want (and maybe they will do what they promise... But my thing is... But maybe they won't. I see no reason to trust / believe people who behave in such a manner). Anyway point is they want to teach me a lesson in how it's just simpler to do whatever they want.

Because, you know, that's how we ensure we hold back teh development of everything in order to further profit ourselves.

They won't process anything.

So I'm supposed to drag everythign through the courts. To make them. Insofar as our courts are capable of delivering justice.

Good people cannot do business, here.

It's a wonderland for bullies and psychopaths.


And then they get sick...


And that's the game that they play.

And the kids who were biding their biding their time biding their time get to swoop on in.

And people don't seem to mind.

I think there really is a very real cohort, here, who are determined for things to stay this way. To be this way. It is the game that they played.


But the ECFMG requires me to complete a Medical Degree.

And National standards keep meaning that anything else I do isn't recognised anyplace else.

Waikato has decided to rescind my previously conferred transcript and replace it with something that looks like I'm stupid. That doesn't look legitimate at all. Looks like I do the same thing over and over and over and over and over...

And I guess that's the thing:

NZ keeps telling me:

There's no way through for you, Alex.

We just say 'by natural ability and hard work' but it's about the cohort of the kids of the professionals. ANd you arent that cohort. And we don't want you corruping our kids. With these ideas that have them think that life is about anything other than workign up the hierarchy and suck suck suck suck sucking up to me'.

There are people here...


There need to be mechanisms to get the people out. To let us study for international exams.

It isn't fair to not let us sit international exams.

It isn't fair of the ECFMG to require people go to Meidcal School when there appears to only be corrupt selection process.

Why can't people sit the exams no matter their background?

Maybe they will do better clinical exams (informed consent anyone) than if they get exposure to Medical systems in corrupt countries.

But then probably the ECFMG is the most corrupt thing of all.

I guess people want me to believe it.

Things are very opressive, here.

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