Psycho-Babble Social Thread 1107689

Shown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

flattery

Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 4, 2020, at 20:37:50

im not sure, if you known with the term, it's a main term for a asskisser, or something who makes over inducement compliments, flatters, they used to around when the king james, and medieval times, they would flatter the kings and queens, with flattery. I can't stand it, flattery basically to me is like lying, there overly giving your compliments either to gain their appreciation, gain a motive, or thinking it would make the person like them. Like, 'your the most beautiful flower in the garden filled with roses, and devine love, your more than anything in the whole universe that is in my heart of love'....things like that, i can detect,

people do that to asskiss people in power, to gain favors, or attention, or give them something. Or over compliment, just saying compliments over and over again, that's flattery, and it can be for good reasons, because the person doesn't know what it is, or there doing it for a motive. Yes, like they use to kiss the king james, or queen elizabeth back in medieval times to gain favors, by over complimenting to make them feel over well. I'm very sure people in power, or high status wealth can detect flattery. It...yes it can be for good intentions, and there just doing it for their attention, but others are for motives to gain favors. I heard in the dante's inferno that there's a section in hades, that flatters are sent too. (but let's just keep on topic)

I sometimes feel good when people compliment me, or tell me that i'm worth something, but then there's times when i know they don't mean it, it's words of politeness, and not true meaning.

Anysays, have you ever, like had someone flatter you, like over compliment, and it becomes to a point where it looks strange. I've seen even motivational speakers do flattery, well known christian speakers at conferences for money.

anyone ever had a flatterer, ever done this, like to hear some stories anything

 

Re: flattery

Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 5, 2020, at 1:03:53

In reply to flattery, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 4, 2020, at 20:37:50

actually dot out what i wrote about (as^^^kis) that was not appropriate, just stick with the term flattery

 

Re: flattery

Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 5, 2020, at 1:13:20

In reply to flattery, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 4, 2020, at 20:37:50

this has nothing to do with anyone on site, this is research from a term they used to do in medieval times and even before

the term "flattery will get you nowhere" is a common term that has been passed down for centuries

 

Re: flattery

Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 5, 2020, at 1:27:01

In reply to flattery, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 4, 2020, at 20:37:50

goodness, just forget all the examples i wrote,

my general question is have you ever had someone in your life (experiences) that they flatter you, that you know that there doing it for a motive, or being a kisser to get you to do favors

 

Re: flattery

Posted by alexandra_k on January 5, 2020, at 23:44:06

In reply to Re: flattery, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 5, 2020, at 1:27:01

I have heard people say 'you catch more flies with honey' to which I thought 'but what do you want with catching flies?'

I was friends with a guy quite a while ago now, and he was really good at flattery. He used to use it to get funding. From government agencies and politicians and the like. For good purposes / use. He ran / managed a centre for kids who had been kicked out of school.

I saw that he got many things that he would not get if he wasn't good at flattery.

I could see that people could see that he was flattering them. They seem to see it / realise it for what it is. But they don't seem to be able to help the fact that hearing those good things / being around a person who is obviously intending to charm them is enjoyable. They enjoy it. They like it. They don't seem able to help themselves.

So it gave him power to get and achieve things he could not / would not have otherwise.

I think he was a genuine person. He liked making other people feel good. Jovial. Jolly. He was a big guy so was able to convey it in a way that sort of worked. I don't know.

Other people are more... Sychophantic. Saying things that they know are false. Yes sir no sir anything you say sir. Pandering. He wasn't like that. Sickly sweet. He wasn't like that.

It isn't in my nature, at all.

I think it is because I'm female and the way that other people interact with me is something that annoys me a lot in the first place.

Like how I would see that in the gym people would give the big guys their space. Out of respect (it seemed to me). It was unthinking and involuntary.

The idea of chivalry. Having power and choosing to use it for good. So letting the lady go first. Making sure the lady has her space and isn't crowded or jostled.

The idea of survival of the fittest.

It was about hierarchy only in the gym. People would routinely bump and crowd me in an attempt to say 'hi' even.

It didn't matter how growly I looked. How many hoods I put up. HOw many sunglasses I put on.

_____

I used to think that it's okay... People get to know you. Get to know you.

________

But people, here, don't know me at all. They treat me like I'm a retarded child. They keep insinuating I have mental health problems and I'm slow and...

Whatever whatever whatever whatever...

I've never met such horrible people in my life.

Sigh.

 

Re: flattery

Posted by alexandra_k on January 5, 2020, at 23:49:31

In reply to Re: flattery, posted by alexandra_k on January 5, 2020, at 23:44:06

Another guy, too. One of the teachers at tech. For sports science. He had this whole manner about him where he conveyed to each and every person that he really really liked them and he really really wanted them to like him. He cared what they thought about him and he wanted them to like him.

And so people liked him.

It seemed involuntary. They involuntarily liked him, because he was able to convey that.

It meant that at other times he could be actually rather harsh with them and they would toe the line because they (involuntarily) wanted him to like them. He was able to... Command the masses in that manner.

Leadership. It's a style, I suppose.

______

It is a skill.

To use emotions not to express how you feel but to use emotions as a form of communication (you can choose to communicate things truly or falsely, it is just information and it could be misinformation). To use emotions as a form of... Control.

To control others by playing on their fears and insecurities. To induce shame and guilt. They are 'sticks', I suppose.

But also to control others by leading them... By praising and encouraging and rewarding them with flattery when they do the things you want them to do.

______

I am not big on controlling others. On being controlled by others. Especially when it comes to use of emotions to control others.

I am big on people doing the things they are f*ck*ng well supposed to do because they are f*ck*ng well supposed to do them. That is why they get the money they get and if they want to keep getting the money they get and not give the money they got back then perhaps they need to do the things they were paid for.

Why is that so f*ck*ng hard?

 

Re: flattery

Posted by alexandra_k on January 5, 2020, at 23:52:55

In reply to Re: flattery, posted by alexandra_k on January 5, 2020, at 23:49:31

I mean others have been conveying to me that they don't like me.

People jump on my whole thesis fiasco with glee that I failed.

People only seem happy that I didn't get an offer for Med.

Nobody seems to care, at all, about whether I *should* have got an offer for Med. Everybody seems to be pretending that they don't understand what *should* means. They only understand 'did' or 'did not' and that's an end to it.

Nobody has conveyed that they want to see me happy or do well.

Nobody has conveyed to me that they are willing or able to do the things they are supposed to do.

or if they can't / don't know how they won't ask for help / won't let anybody help them.

When I show them I have ability / capability the response is for them to deny it and to flunk me out. Try and bully me out of town, basically.

How am I supposed to feel about them after all that?

What did I ever do to them?

Oh yeah, I wanted them to let me go. Let me go with enough resources to look after myself. If I don't have that.

I got nothing for ya.

It's not like anybody else has a different story for them.

But there ya go.

 

charm

Posted by alexandra_k on January 6, 2020, at 0:06:20

In reply to Re: flattery, posted by alexandra_k on January 5, 2020, at 23:52:55

It is because I am wary of charm.

It is charm that gets people handing over their babies so they can be stabbed with needles.

It is charm that gets people presenting themselves for cervical smears so people can observe the progression of cancer (no treatment).

It is charm that gets people...

Doing all kinds of things.

I think that that is why you want a population that is oxygen deprived, hit on the head a few too many times, brain damaged. The more you have lack of rational or cognitive (frontal lobe) capacity... The more the people are controllable by charm.

By charm...

By advertising.

MOst people aren't aware of the stuff we learned about in the 60's (they probably don't teach it anymore) on how you can contorl people purchasing things in supermarkets or whatever with product placement.

People (mostly) are reactive and very controllable in this manner.

____

I find it... Distasteful. Exploitative.

_____

I don't find anything wrong with it in certain settings. It is nice to be charming to each other in an equal and mutual way of good feelings all around.

But it is different to try and get ones way by use of charm.

_____

I'm not trying to persuade people with reason. But it takes a cognitive capacity to put 2 and 2 together and see how they add up.

___

When I was going up to the High Court and sitting in on some of the cases there was this thing where people were representing themselves or maybe their lawyers were inexperinced. One of them said she didn't get documents she needed to respond before the case... THe other one said they didn't need to file those documents in advance. The judge said that the law said that when x was filed y was to be filed.

The other one didn't realise (even after the judge said that) that that meant he was required to file them TOGETHER which means AT THE SAME TIME which means he did need to have filed it.

I was asked to leave at that point and the judge looked embarrassed...

But those kinds of failures to comphrehend...

___

The Ombudsmans 'judgement' seems intentionally designed to be incomprehensible for much of it. Just garbled nonsense. What a f*ck*ng joke.

The people in charge can't really be that incompetent -- can they?

It has to be corruption. Or maybe it is stupidity. THen there's some kind of mental block that happens, though, where people can't put 2 and 2 together because they became too personally invested in things being otherwise.

I don't know what it is. Just minimise time spent with such awful people.

 

Re: charm

Posted by alexandra_k on January 6, 2020, at 0:22:41

In reply to charm, posted by alexandra_k on January 6, 2020, at 0:06:20

Charm is exactly what it is with the Hui all day thing.

I don't like it because my experience of it more recently is that people do that to try and circumvent or bypass doing the things that they are supposed to do.

For example, at tech the teacher would say 'keep working on the exercises I need to go see x about y, I'll be back in a bit'. So we would keep working on the exercises. Then one of the kids would say 'I think we should go look for him'. And I would say 'he told us to keep working on the exercises so I think we should do that'. Then the kid (who had the least capacity to do the exercises) would manage to get a group of people together to go look for him...

And when they found him he would be DELIGHTED. Genuinely. Delighted with them. So happy to see them! So happy they found him!

And in this way he charmed them into following him around like lost puppies and ignoring most everything of what he had to say.

It meant he trained the people to not follow instructions / listen to directions.

Do you see?

_______________________________

Much of Medicine (here anyway) is about being appropriately charming, I am sure. Especially when it comes to indigenous health, I am sure. The leaders will teach everybody that we are required to be charming to the leaders or the people the leaders have control over will get no healthcare, no healthcare, at all.

If you don't charm the head of the tribe, the head of the household, the head of the family, the boss of whomever... Then you can't deliver healthcare.

______________________________

The scariest thing about it all is that those who are most charming can do whatever they like.

______________________________

That's why I prefer to opt out of the whole charming thing, honestly.

I don't think it has a place in informed consent.

Pleasant, yes. Professional, yes. Charming... No.

Save that for extracting donations from wealthy benefactors... If that's your thing.. That's not my job. I'd be awful at it.

Sometimes people are looking for good investments. Good people. Good investments.

Good doctor.

Doc Martin wasn't charming.

But he was competent.

Yeah.

 

Re: charm

Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 7, 2020, at 22:26:26

In reply to Re: charm, posted by alexandra_k on January 6, 2020, at 0:22:41

yes, charm feels like a motive, flattery, charm, they can be used to flatter people. But i mean, there is natual flatter, but i don't think it should be called that. Like if someone really appriciates someone, and they tell that, and they really mean it, that is not flattery. When i was younger i used to look up to people in high school, or sports figures and be like a fan or something, charm or flattery doesn't seem to be a part of that, because your truly showing them your appreciation or how much you like them. Flattery is ... i have to say it is asskissing, its not real, its like lying to get something. Favors, charms, sometimes it can superficial. Over-compliment, to where it gets strange and weird, and starts to creep you out. I think who like or have a crush on someone, they repeatedly compliment, or over smile, and it gets to a point where it seems strange.

I've been flattered by motivational people, friends, there real upfront with giving supporting advice, and then the next day, or later on it's like they totally change, like switch or all of what they said was fake. They make you feel special for moment, then the horrible feeling when around them again and they act like they don't know you.

 

Re: admiration

Posted by alexandra_k on January 11, 2020, at 3:40:24

In reply to Re: charm, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 7, 2020, at 22:26:26

It's nice to feel liked and appreciated.

Admiration? I remember admiring people, when I was younger, wanting to be like them.

I guess I admire people, still. Or, there are certain things about certain people that I admire -- even though there may well be other parts or aspects of qualities that I don't think all that much of.

I am not very good at giving genuine compliments. Or, on focusing on that which I do like and want to see more of.

Which is a shame, because most people are genuine compliment-starved, I think.

Prince someone visited here relatively recently. I think Prince someone. Royalty, anyway. There were bits in the paper about what he said as part of a speech or something.

He said about admiring the courage of the Maori people. Yes. There courage is something to be admired. I think that is a genuine compliment, indeed. He said quite a few things like that. Things that were good and kind and motivating and... Inspiring, yeah. Helping everyone feel good and who doesn't want to feel good for good reason?

I hate that feeling of let-down, too. I remember feeling disappointed, rather a lot, when I was little. I don't feel disappointed very much, anymore, because I learned not to hope for very much at all, likely to avoid that awful feeling.

Maybe not with respect to some things in my life... But with respect to people, I mean.

It does hurt when one sort of bounds up to someone and isn't met with happiness and appreciation. I have the faintest memory of that..

Sometimes it isn't that they aren't happy to see you. It is just that people get caught up in their own heads or their own issues or whatever, sometimes.

I don't know.

 

Re: flattery

Posted by Hugh on January 12, 2020, at 8:16:32

In reply to flattery, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 4, 2020, at 20:37:50

A passage about flattery from Pride and Prejudice:

https://englishlanguageandhistory.com/?id=jane-austen-compliments-mr-collins

 

Re: flattery

Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 12, 2020, at 21:55:41

In reply to Re: flattery, posted by Hugh on January 12, 2020, at 8:16:32

think of it like this

someone who holds a mirror up in frount of someone, they see themselves, and person say mirror on wall who is the fairst one of all, you, your more than .... all.
Flattery, it's been done for 1000s of years....

i read victorian age, times....there was a photo where a dark angel is holding a mirror for a lady to indulge at looking at herself through vanity, excess makeup, perfume, and being flattered by the dark force holding the mirror up, enriching her into vanity and induglange, only to let her sin her way to hades

 

Re: admiration alexandra_k

Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 12, 2020, at 22:07:49

In reply to Re: admiration, posted by alexandra_k on January 11, 2020, at 3:40:24

i think, your right, admiration is true quality, but i think of it....when you say too many details in compliment, over detailed, like your the flower in the garden, filled with white beuety, you certainly are the most highest of all roses

it's when you start to become over detailed, in not like, admiration like you said, because when you compliment genenionly, yeah you can go into detail, but when go over into detail, like stuff that's seems like gibberish, that's one detector. Like you said, admiring i don't know ... a writer, or well known soldier with a history, you go into detail about their characteristics, but when gibberish starts to be there, that's a big detector.

 

Re: flattery Hugh

Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 12, 2020, at 22:25:06

In reply to Re: flattery, posted by Hugh on January 12, 2020, at 8:16:32

pride and prejdice was i thinkn the victorian period, and i read on the compmliments of mr collins, they were very structured in their flattery, like it said sing praises to the lady catherine "possess the talent of flattering with delicacy" i'm trying to process it, but

"I sometimes amuse myself with suggesting and arranging such little elegant compliments as may be adapted to ordinary occasions"

i kinda get what their saying, but they were so structured in their compliments, as if it were a language, rather than a intention. To flatter in such sophisticated manner, but it feels like that was a part of their language back then.

 

Re: admiration

Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 13, 2020, at 18:10:53

In reply to Re: admiration alexandra_k, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 12, 2020, at 22:07:49

gibberish meaning - over whelming them with non needed compliments, nothing to do with posts here, so don't take or be offended. Someone who just keeps on with giving them compliments, more than needed. Hugh posted a interesting thing about pride and prejudice - how their language back then was like flattery, but it was in professional and complex form. Proper and polite, with intellectual details, if you read the article hugh posted.....

 

Re: admiration

Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 13, 2020, at 18:14:57

In reply to Re: admiration alexandra_k, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 12, 2020, at 22:07:49

"the flower in the garden, filled with white beuety, you certainly are the most highest of all roses"

actually doesn't mean flattery, someone can say that truely when being expressed their opinion, i need to get the big picture of all of this, and get down to facts of what flattery is or does, and how to detect when someone is trying to do favors.

 

Re: admiration

Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 13, 2020, at 18:29:40

In reply to Re: admiration, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 13, 2020, at 18:14:57

you know when someone is doing that, you don't nessary have to be resisntant, or have a bad attide towards them, but it can help you figure out what their trying to do. I've had people flatter with compliments, like "if you need to talk or anyhting you can call me" then when i call them they act defensive and say a short statement and then get off the phone. Sometimes it's in terms of politeness, and polite comments. Not neccarly hate them or displie them, but just knowing or detecting it. Not in hate or dislike but just ... you know when your being flattered

 

Re: flattery Hugh

Posted by alexandra_k on January 16, 2020, at 23:10:40

In reply to Re: flattery, posted by Hugh on January 12, 2020, at 8:16:32

That was a good passage. I had forgotten how much I used to enjoy reading those kinds of novels.

 

Re: flattery alexandra_k

Posted by Honore on January 17, 2020, at 11:27:05

In reply to Re: flattery Hugh, posted by alexandra_k on January 16, 2020, at 23:10:40

The 19th c novel, in particular those by Jane Austen are such fun. She can always be counted on for a sardonic comment on the perversion manners or quirks of personality caused by a perversion of manners evoked by the desire for social standingstated with a lightness of touch that almost disguises their cynicism. I wish I could relive the days of first reading those wonderful pages.

 

Re: flattery

Posted by alexandra_k on January 21, 2020, at 2:04:26

In reply to Re: flattery alexandra_k, posted by Honore on January 17, 2020, at 11:27:05

Yeah.

I used to *enjoy* literature.

SIgh.


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