![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 14 to 38 of 38. Go back in thread:
Posted by gardenergirl on September 19, 2006, at 11:36:53
In reply to Re: what is a true flame? » rainbutterfly, posted by rainbutterfly on September 19, 2006, at 8:27:49
> I know I am not perfect. Never said I was. I do know what is in my own heart though....
That's what's important, I think. I find that gut checks and heart checks are quite helpful when I start to feel off-balance for whatever reason. I do much better when listening to my gut and my heart when my head starts to question and get confused about external stuff.
Take care,
gg
Posted by corafree on September 19, 2006, at 12:56:05
In reply to Re: what is a true flame? » corafree, posted by rainbutterfly on September 19, 2006, at 8:17:12
<(This is now the second time I have asked for no more replies to this thread. Thanks in anticipation).>
I'm so sorry I followed up, ... to you.
I should have just asked the question ... what is a true flame ... and not checked the add name of previous poster box.
I was inquiring w/o any offense, but, in my heart, I feel offended by what you say above.
?properbabblemanners, cf
Posted by rainbutterfly on September 19, 2006, at 13:16:15
In reply to Re: what is a true flame? » rainbutterfly, posted by corafree on September 19, 2006, at 12:56:05
no offense intended.
take care.
Posted by rainbutterfly on September 19, 2006, at 13:17:05
In reply to Knowing what's in your heart » rainbutterfly, posted by gardenergirl on September 19, 2006, at 11:36:53
Thanks gg
xo butterfly
Posted by rainbutterfly on September 19, 2006, at 14:43:25
In reply to Re: Knowing what's in your heart » gardenergirl, posted by rainbutterfly on September 19, 2006, at 13:17:05
PS Thanks for writing back corafree, and saying how you felt. I realise I was hasty posting that - still learning here. I hope you won't "write me off" because of my bluntness (if I could have edited my post, I would have done... I am used to boards with an edit feature. I do think that this board is a good "learning experience" for me already .....)
Second guessing almost everything I write, here it is anyway,
butterfly
Posted by gardenergirl on September 19, 2006, at 15:02:33
In reply to Re: a very hard lesson but a good one » ClearSkies, posted by zenhussy on September 14, 2006, at 11:35:14
> that is a hard lesson and one that some folks learn the hard way a few times before it sticks. thank you for sharing that as it is illustrative of how acting on feelings/emotions in the moment may not always be the best course of action in the long run.I wonder how well the lesson sticks when the action gets "disappeared". Disappeared though not forgotten. We don't always have a safety net or get mulligans.
CS is wise, indeed.
gg
Posted by rainbutterfly on September 20, 2006, at 6:25:59
In reply to Re: a very hard lesson but a good one » zenhussy, posted by gardenergirl on September 19, 2006, at 15:02:33
And even a caterpillar hiding in a "cocoon" can see that!
:D
Posted by zenhussy on September 20, 2006, at 9:42:00
In reply to Re: a very hard lesson but a good one » zenhussy, posted by gardenergirl on September 19, 2006, at 15:02:33
zh wrote:>>>that is a hard lesson and one that some folks learn the hard way a few times before it sticks. thank you for sharing that as it is illustrative of how acting on feelings/emotions in the moment may not always be the best course of action in the long run.
gg replied:>>I wonder how well the lesson sticks when the action gets "disappeared". Disappeared though not forgotten. We don't always have a safety net or get mulligans.
gg,is there any other way you might have phrased this for a client? we're lost as to what your meaning here is. perhaps this is over our head? or maybe you have some meaning that you could better clarify if you have something you intend for us to understand.
we wish we had the advantage of your years of study....alas we do not. if you would be so kind as to share your professional and personal insights here we'd be happy to attempt to understand exactly what you're trying to convey.
until then.....huh? help us out here as you have an edge for understanding this situation that many others lack. we'd be so fortunate if you would indulge the board with your knowledge.
--zh
Posted by zenhussy on September 20, 2006, at 9:56:55
In reply to Re: a very hard lesson but a good one » zenhussy, posted by ClearSkies on September 14, 2006, at 16:26:03
>>>Yes, it turns out I'm a good student - of sobriety, of yoga, of living. Not so good at being employable, though I'm sure it will come.
cs,
being employable is not something to define oneself by. and yes it will come with time. for now continuing on with managing the stress/anxiety with yoga and other techniques you've gathered along the way you'll most certainly get to a point where you consider yourself employable or you'll be at that point where it is no longer important enough to use that as a measuring stick.
keep using your wisdom and compassion as you have a lot to be proud of from your work over this year.
Posted by ClearSkies on September 20, 2006, at 11:59:32
In reply to we're not defined by our earning potential » ClearSkies, posted by zenhussy on September 20, 2006, at 9:56:55
:-)
thanks, Zen.
Posted by gardenergirl on September 20, 2006, at 16:01:49
In reply to how would you phrase this for a client? » gardenergirl, posted by zenhussy on September 20, 2006, at 9:42:00
> gg replied:>>I wonder how well the lesson sticks when the action gets "disappeared". Disappeared though not forgotten. We don't always have a safety net or get mulligans.
>
> gg,
>
> is there any other way you might have phrased this for a client? ...Goodness gracious, what flattery! Please give yourself more credit, zen. I have faith in your understanding of this topic. Experience interacting on the internet would surely be more relevant and useful versus any potential benefit from formal education or experience with professional psychology.
To answer your subject line question, how I might discuss this with a client would be too dependent on the specific situation with that client, so any wording I would choose would be message and recipient specific.
My message in the post to you was that it might be harder to sustain the learning of the type of "hard lesson" you refer to if the representation of the behavior, for example a post on an internet forum, "disappears" (for example is removed from viewing access). To the person who could learn the "hard lesson", having the evidence of the action "disappear" could feel similar to the defense mechanism of "undoing", or as if the action was never taken. (See http://www.planetpsych.com/zPsychology_101/defense_mechanisms.htm for descriptions of different defense mechanisms.) That "disappearing" of the action might make it easier to forget any lessons learned and could lead to repeating the behavior in the future.
Now, if the representation of the behavior is documented in some way, for example in a computer file or in the case of your question here, a client's file, the action related to the "lesson" is not forgotten. It's not invisible. Anyone external to the act/lesson learning could have access to the stimulus for the lesson and might learn from the other's behavior and any consequences. But the one who has the most to learn from the act, as you describe the person acting from "feelings/emotions in the moment", may no longer benefit from the lesson if the evidence of it seems to no longer exist.
That's pretty much the message.
gg
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 20, 2006, at 18:21:40
In reply to Re: a very hard lesson but a good one » llrrrpp, posted by rainbutterfly on September 15, 2006, at 13:58:53
> No more replies please, especially questioning definitions or use of words. That is not what I am looking for here.
I'm sorry if that's not what you're looking for, but I think it's more welcoming in general if people feel free to reply to any posts they want. As long as they're civil, etc.
Bob
Posted by rainbutterfly on September 20, 2006, at 19:24:44
In reply to Re: replies, posted by Dr. Bob on September 20, 2006, at 18:21:40
ok Dr Bob, I understand now.
As it turned out, this thread has contained many interesting and valuable lessons for me. My thanks to everyone who has participated so far.
xo butterfly
Posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2006, at 20:23:57
In reply to Re: how would you phrase this for a client? » zenhussy, posted by gardenergirl on September 20, 2006, at 16:01:49
GG I've been told for year that I intellectualize. So I don't feel the feeling. Maybe that's why I'm crying and grieving so much now. I've realized? Love Phillipa
Posted by zenhussy on September 21, 2006, at 5:34:51
In reply to Re: how would you phrase this for a client? » zenhussy, posted by gardenergirl on September 20, 2006, at 16:01:49
your clients are fortunate to receive such straight forward informative answers to questions they may pose.
the example you came up with is quizzical but interesting nonetheless.....
much more interesting after re-reading this thread and what gets quoted or paraphrased....sometimes leading into entirely separate conversations....sometimes with others....sometimes with ourselves.....almost a chat room of non sequiturs zinging about it could appear at times. still searching for some meaning in your posts to us and what we're missing.
as the hour is late out here again we'll just say huh?
far too much credit you've given us over the years so please....hush now...'nuff. our pdoc and therapist and others on the health team would love to talk to you for your assessment as it could appear to differ from theirs.
they've been constant supports as we've brought in print outs, e-mails and other online stuff tucked in our journal(s) into their offices over the years. one more thread which leads to fascinating conversations in which the team helps to pick over things seeing what makes sense, what may hit home and what just is huhwha? type of stuff.
feeling huhwha? on this one gg....not that your post doesn't make sense...it does...just not out here...or maybe not in ways you're trying to say with random? examples you're using.....
huhwha? ever have a bunk data dvd? when you're trying to retrieve info off of it you can hear the drive whirring and whirring and whirring with nothing happening. the info is on the disc but the drive can't access it....doesn't mean the info is faulty....doesn't mean the drive is bad....maybe they're just incompatible? updating drivers and wiping clean the disc if smudged can help. lots of things *can* help.
:: shrug :: and a final huhwha?
Posted by rainbutterfly on September 21, 2006, at 6:50:29
In reply to Re: what is a true flame?, posted by corafree on September 18, 2006, at 21:38:27
Posted by rainbutterfly on September 21, 2006, at 7:29:44
In reply to Re: very interesting posts tks for calling me out (nm) » corafree, posted by rainbutterfly on September 21, 2006, at 6:50:29
Still looking for ideas on how NOT to send a flame to someone who has hurt me.
Maybe this is how to kill this thread. LOL.
Posted by rainbutterfly on September 21, 2006, at 7:41:02
In reply to Re: how would you phrase this for a client? » zenhussy, posted by gardenergirl on September 20, 2006, at 16:01:49
How interesting. I understand your message gg. Thanks for sharing in a way that even a butterfly can understand :P
Posted by Racer on September 21, 2006, at 10:43:54
In reply to Re: how would you phrase this for a client? » gardenergirl, posted by rainbutterfly on September 21, 2006, at 7:41:02
> How interesting. I understand your message gg. Thanks for sharing in a way that even a butterfly can understand :P
I understand it, too. I'm better we're not the only ones who understand it, really. It isn't all that difficult, is it?
That's one of the things I like about Babble: Posts stay here. Now, sometimes I cringe when I read something I've written, but I like it much better overall than having posts removed. It feels safer to me, that someone else can't hide hurtful things said to or about me, and pretend they never happened. I think it's a way to help us maintain responsibility for our actions.
Posted by corafree on September 21, 2006, at 11:20:23
In reply to Re: still looking » rainbutterfly, posted by rainbutterfly on September 21, 2006, at 7:29:44
Nope. Sorry,
The person who hurt you is not deserving of your passion. If its right, they'll meet their demon, and, unexpectedly.
Sometimes(?) I can remember not to lie to myself, not to waste 2much of my time on someone not worthy of it.
backatya, cf
Posted by corafree on September 21, 2006, at 12:21:33
In reply to Re: how would you phrase this for a client? » zenhussy, posted by gardenergirl on September 20, 2006, at 16:01:49
(I know. Sorry.)
Not!(ha)
Jumping into, then following this thread, has been 'a lesson' 4me. :)
I expect a lot from others and myself.
I need to 'learn the lessons' so badly, I keep sticking my hand right back in the fire, so then, I can, and, I DO, go around saying, "Look! This is what will happen to you if you do what I did"!
What am I, an appointed teacher or martyr? I don't know 4sure, but I'm giving it some thought. That's a start.
What was it Judd Hirsch said in Ordinary People ... Something like, 'knowing the problem is a good place to start'.
Wow.
Think I need to ease up on others and myself .. just cruise .. just get ripped .. just take a vow of silence(?)
Life is such a really really good bad thing!!!
cf
Posted by gardenergirl on September 22, 2006, at 13:26:42
In reply to disappeared......interesting choice of a word » gardenergirl, posted by zenhussy on September 21, 2006, at 5:34:51
Any of those would work as well.
>...sometimes leading into entirely separate conversations....
I agree, it has strayed from the original topic.
>... our pdoc and therapist and others on the health team would love to talk to you for your assessment as it could appear to differ from theirs.
That sounds entirely too much like work.
> updating drivers and wiping clean the disc if smudged can help. lots of things *can* help.
I agree. And sometimes it's best just to turn off the drive and go elsewhere for reliable data.
>
> :: shrug :: and a final huhwha?No worries. It's not the first time. You get used to it.
gg
Posted by corafree on September 22, 2006, at 15:10:40
In reply to Poofed? Erased? Removed? Deleted? » zenhussy, posted by gardenergirl on September 22, 2006, at 13:26:42
I don't see your post zen? Was 'it' poofed? erased? removed? deleted?
Or, was the topic of this discussion poofed? erased? removed? deleted?
Just got this followup from you gg.
totallylost, cf
Posted by rainbutterfly on September 22, 2006, at 16:14:24
In reply to Poofed? Erased? Removed? Deleted? » zenhussy, posted by gardenergirl on September 22, 2006, at 13:26:42
Speechless here :o(
)) gg ((
waves to cf.... I am not as lost as you (at least I am guessing I am not). Lost nevertheless.
Posted by gardenergirl on September 22, 2006, at 16:30:57
In reply to Re: Poofed? Erased? Removed? Deleted?, posted by corafree on September 22, 2006, at 15:10:40
I went on a brief tangentential dialog with zen. Sorry to hijack the topic.
We now return to our regular programming. :)
gg
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.