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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 14:20:57
In reply to Re: Listen,there's a reason we have think about war... » Krazy Kat , posted by Jane D on September 11, 2001, at 13:55:57
I don't look at it as us causing loss of life. We didn't start this. And something like this takes on a life of its own.
It's fine to wish things were different, but if there isn't a different way to do it, it's just wishful thinking.
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 14:21:48
In reply to Re: war... » kid_A, posted by Rach on September 11, 2001, at 14:06:15
---
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 14:27:17
In reply to Re: I'm terribly saddened., posted by Adam on September 11, 2001, at 14:06:19
> Adam:
What is your suggestion to solve this? Try and consider a different president in office, if President Bush is part of the problem. I think that, regardless of party affiliation, this would result in a retaliation of sorts.
How can it not? What other viable option is there?
BTW, I can try to contact someone if you need me to - I am @ 2 hours north of the NYC -- doghappy@ivillage.com.
- K.
Posted by kid_A on September 11, 2001, at 14:30:18
In reply to What is the right thing to do? » Rach, posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 14:21:48
I'm buying candles tonight, to put in my windows... Perhaps its only a small statement, that and what I have written in poetry... But to me, even the smallest thing is a tribute to this great loss...
Posted by Elizabeth on September 11, 2001, at 14:38:34
In reply to Listen,there's a reason we have think about war..., posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 12:45:08
> This is a major, major thing, and anger at whomever is responsible is warranted - not a time for philosophical moments, worrying about terrorists' "souls".
I don't believe in souls. But I do believe in human life, and there is a good chance that more innocent human lives will be lost. "Us or them" hardly seems like a pressing concern in light of this.
> Sorry, but the focus should be on OUR loss, not on some possible future loss of someone else. It's irreverant and incomprehensible to me...
I think we can multitask. :-) And looking to the future does have its advantages, together with looking to the past and living in the present.
Like all terrorist actions, this one will hardly benefit the terrorists or make anyone sympathetic to their plight. I'd hate to have all the nasty people in New York and D.C. pissed off at me! < g > And make no mistake: the perpetrators will be found, sooner or later.
The hate that entire nations of people hold for us (USA) is irrelevant. As with the OKC bombing, we're too quick to assume (that's "ASS U ME") that they're responsible -- and why? Because we hate them too. That's no more a reason for us to blow them up than is their hate a reason for them to blow us up.
-elizabeth
p.s. women != children
Posted by kid_A on September 11, 2001, at 14:38:34
In reply to Re: What is the right thing to do?, posted by kid_A on September 11, 2001, at 14:30:18
this got lost somehow... i posted it once, appolgies if it shows up some place odd
Posted by Greg on September 11, 2001, at 14:43:17
In reply to Re: I'm terribly saddened., posted by Adam on September 11, 2001, at 14:06:19
I pray that you both find your friends and loved ones to be safe and sound. I can only imagine what a heart-wrenching time this must be for you and everyone facing this tragedy. My thoughts are with you.
Greg
Posted by Adam on September 11, 2001, at 14:45:17
In reply to I'm terribly saddened., posted by akc on September 11, 2001, at 9:25:25
Got some news from my g.f. Those close to the crashes are accounted for. Through another person (so I'm getting this like third or fourth-hand) there is an eyewitness account of the second crash, the 767, I guess. From what I can gather, it happend so fast one could hardly register the presence of the plane. It sped like a bolt into the side of the building, fire and debris spewing out the other side. I can't even imagine. One guy, working just a few blocks away, saw the first tower collapse before he got the hell out of there. He was actually hit bit bits of stuff flying through the air, and covered with dust. Screaming, terrified people running this way and that (him included)...I just can't even imagine. Just unbelievable. But all who we know are safe, as far as we can tell.
I got off the phone with one of my good friends from college, who works in a law firm in DC. They scrambled to the roof, or ran to some other vantage point. He said it looked like all of Alexandria and surroundings was on fire, like a volcano had erupted just across the Potomac. He's going immediately to an ad hoc clinic to donate blood. His voice was shaking. He knows people over there, and has no idea of their condition. I just can't believe it.
Posted by akc on September 11, 2001, at 14:47:36
In reply to Re: thinking about war » Krazy Kat , posted by Elizabeth on September 11, 2001, at 14:38:34
I don't want to be angry. I don't want to retaliate. I hate this bile stuff that is pouring up out of me -- this "let's hunt them down like a rabid dog." Part of my sadness is that we will retaliate -- while I could live with that if we only hit those responsible, other innocent lives will be lost. Innocents lives. Innocents. I once was innocent. I don't want to be this angry at anyone. Be it god or my father or some terrorist who acts in the name of god or dances in the streets of jerusalum. I want to feel the grief. I want to have compassion for the lives that were lost, for the terror that was felt. But with the sadness and seriousness comes this black bile.
akc
Posted by Adam on September 11, 2001, at 14:49:20
In reply to Adam..., posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 14:27:17
I don't know, Kat. I know it won't make a bit of difference, or help anything. Retribution, just or not, has proven time and again to be the opposite of a deterrant. But it is inevitable. So why even wonder what we should do? I just wonder what we will do, how large the retaliation will be, when it will stop, and so on. In my mind, NOTHING will help this except love and support for those who have been hurt. The rest is business as usual.
> > Adam:
>
> What is your suggestion to solve this? Try and consider a different president in office, if President Bush is part of the problem. I think that, regardless of party affiliation, this would result in a retaliation of sorts.
>
> How can it not? What other viable option is there?
>
> BTW, I can try to contact someone if you need me to - I am @ 2 hours north of the NYC -- doghappy@ivillage.com.
>
> - K.
Posted by Elizabeth on September 11, 2001, at 14:52:29
In reply to Got some news, posted by Adam on September 11, 2001, at 14:45:17
> Through another person (so I'm getting this like third or fourth-hand) there is an eyewitness account of the second crash, the 767, I guess.
I've spoken to some people about that, too. They say [insert parental advisory] that they saw the explosion, saw bodies flying from the building and people jumping to their deaths.
> He said it looked like all of Alexandria and surroundings was on fire, like a volcano had erupted just across the Potomac.
I fear for my loved ones in D.C., Maryland, and north Virginia. No word on them yet.
-elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on September 11, 2001, at 14:54:37
In reply to Re: Adam..., posted by Adam on September 11, 2001, at 14:49:20
> I don't know, Kat. I know it won't make a bit of difference, or help anything. Retribution, just or not, has proven time and again to be the opposite of a deterrant.
I'm sure those responsible considered this act to be some kind of "retribution" for imagined crimes. We can all see how it's turned against them. Let's not make the same mistake.
-elizabeth
Posted by akc on September 11, 2001, at 14:59:20
In reply to Got some news, posted by Adam on September 11, 2001, at 14:45:17
I'm glad you are getting some good news. I hope that you will be one of the lucky ones and all of your loved ones will be okay -- well physically ok -- the emotional damage will be around for sometime.
> Got some news from my g.f. Those close to the crashes are accounted for. Through another person (so I'm getting this like third or fourth-hand) there is an eyewitness account of the second crash, the 767, I guess. From what I can gather, it happend so fast one could hardly register the presence of the plane. It sped like a bolt into the side of the building, fire and debris spewing out the other side. I can't even imagine. One guy, working just a few blocks away, saw the first tower collapse before he got the hell out of there. He was actually hit bit bits of stuff flying through the air, and covered with dust. Screaming, terrified people running this way and that (him included)...I just can't even imagine. Just unbelievable. But all who we know are safe, as far as we can tell.
>
> I got off the phone with one of my good friends from college, who works in a law firm in DC. They scrambled to the roof, or ran to some other vantage point. He said it looked like all of Alexandria and surroundings was on fire, like a volcano had erupted just across the Potomac. He's going immediately to an ad hoc clinic to donate blood. His voice was shaking. He knows people over there, and has no idea of their condition. I just can't believe it.
Posted by tina on September 11, 2001, at 15:00:20
In reply to Re: retribution » Adam, posted by Elizabeth on September 11, 2001, at 14:54:37
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your loved ones Elizabeth. I hope everyone is ok.
> > I don't know, Kat. I know it won't make a bit of difference, or help anything. Retribution, just or not, has proven time and again to be the opposite of a deterrant.
>
> I'm sure those responsible considered this act to be some kind of "retribution" for imagined crimes. We can all see how it's turned against them. Let's not make the same mistake.
>
> -elizabeth
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 15:00:24
In reply to Re: thinking about war » Krazy Kat , posted by Elizabeth on September 11, 2001, at 14:38:34
Elizabeth:
I'm not assuming that it is anyone in particular. I'm appalled that we're worrying about the theoretical deaths of the future instead of focussing on a tragedy that just happened a few hours ago.
And yes, it is "us" versus "them". Whoever "they" are - "they" just attacked "us".
I don't understand this lack of insight into the evil in some people and the need to defend ourselves at times. Instead we're defending the terrorists? What the hell...
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 15:03:02
In reply to Elizabeth and Adam, posted by Greg on September 11, 2001, at 14:43:17
I'm sorry, I know this is really sarcastic, but just because I disagree with you, I can't believe I haven't received any support from anyone in this thread. We've lost friends because of this as I pointed out.
Thanks.
- K.
Posted by tina on September 11, 2001, at 15:03:35
In reply to Re: thinking about war, posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 15:00:24
> I don't understand this lack of insight into the evil in some people
I hope I never have "insight" into this kind of evil.
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 15:04:34
In reply to Got some news, posted by Adam on September 11, 2001, at 14:45:17
Glad the Nyr's are O.K.
- K.
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 15:06:51
In reply to Re: thinking about war, posted by akc on September 11, 2001, at 14:47:36
the anger subsides, like mine usually does. But not to have any at all? I think it's better to have some and get through it. There's not much we can do anyway, as you pointed out.
Keep posting, please, if you can - you are a sensible voice as usual, calming me down...
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 15:09:00
In reply to I imagine..., posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 15:06:51
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 15:10:40
In reply to Re: thinking about war » Krazy Kat , posted by tina on September 11, 2001, at 15:03:35
well put...
Posted by tina on September 11, 2001, at 15:14:04
In reply to Re: thinking about war » tina, posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 15:10:40
I wasn't aware you had friends in the area Kat. My heart goes out to you and I, for one, am glad YOU don't still live there.
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 11, 2001, at 15:16:59
In reply to Re: I'm terribly saddened., posted by Adam on September 11, 2001, at 14:06:19
I have been sickened, and my heart has broken watching the footage today. I have seen images that have chilled me to the bone and I know I will never forget.
BUT, I ahve come here, and a post that was about sharing our love with those wh o are now in pain from what has happened today has been turned into a post calling for your Nation to go to war.
Dont you realise that the US going to war would affect a damn site more people than you think. I know the Uk will be effected, and young men will be killed in droves. Have you ever been to war?? I have close friends who have and I can assue you it is not a nice thing.
I too have seen the footage from Palastine.. but those men are in the minority, remember media is not unbiased, and if you go to war with them thousands of innocent (ie, people like you) people will be hurt, maimed and killed.
It would seem that thousands of people have been killed today. Should we really remember them with vengence in out hearts?? Wouldnt it better to send them off with love??
Nikki x
Posted by Greg on September 11, 2001, at 15:17:02
In reply to Re: thinking about war, posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 15:00:24
Kat,
I am deeply sorrowed for the innocent thousands who have lost their lives today and my heart felt sympathies go out to all the families and friends who have lost their loved ones. This will be felt by all of us for a very long time I'm sure.
I am just also saddened by the feeling I have inside that many more innocent lives will fall by the wayside before this is thru.
Believe me, I want to see these monsters brought to justice as much as you do.
> Elizabeth:
>
> I'm not assuming that it is anyone in particular. I'm appalled that we're worrying about the theoretical deaths of the future instead of focussing on a tragedy that just happened a few hours ago.
>
> And yes, it is "us" versus "them". Whoever "they" are - "they" just attacked "us".
>
> I don't understand this lack of insight into the evil in some people and the need to defend ourselves at times. Instead we're defending the terrorists? What the hell...
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 11, 2001, at 15:18:04
In reply to Re: thinking about war » Krazy Kat , posted by tina on September 11, 2001, at 15:14:04
Well, thank you. We'd probably be walking up the East Side today with two dogs and a cat to invade some friend's house further up the island. My mother was very emotional this morning...
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